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On July 16 2013 02:16 DinoMight wrote:
I think some of the points you make are very good. Yesterday at EVO a lot of people were bashing on Super Smash Brothers as being "not a real fighting game" and not an e-SPORT, even though over 100k people were watching the event.
Wait, are you serious? Are people really talking about that?
Because not even a single game at EVO is an eSport, including SSF4 etc etc.
Capcom has said it several times already that they do not support eSports and won't bring their game titles into the eSports scene.
EVO is just an awesome gaming tournament. I wish that more game companies like Capcom would invest in the industry and bring their awesome games into the world of eSports though. Having those awesome fighting games included in our industry would be amazing.
But honestly, one of the biggest things that we need to do to help grow eSports is to change our attitude. Like IdrA said, don't be so conceded, but also, just in general, we can't be such huge nerds.
Being a nerd is awesome, and I always say that everyone is a nerd in their own way, but gaming nerds like to take it to another level a lot of the time and that really discourages people who aren't huge nerds to participate.
Other people need to feel comfortable watching and playing games with the people who know a lot and follow/participate in the eSports scene. Right now, they look at us as intense gamers who are too weird to really collaborate with.
In order to let eSports grow, we need to learn to accept other people, and that means opening ourselves up. With time, this will allow other people to learn to accept us, and after that they will be able to enjoy the same things we've come to enjoy.
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observe the LoL community. Do the exact opposite.
User was warned for this post
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I've been checking the active numbers on all those reddits the past few days. r/LoL gets like 10-15k actives, and rivals all the big subreddits besides r/funny. r/dota2 has about 2-3k active, though that could be inflated due to post launch. r/starcraft has something like 1.5-2k active viewers, making it quite small for a subreddit of 150k subscribers.
Lots of people have left sc2. There's not enough keeping people who don't want to be part of the competitive scene, (no LAN, hard-to-use map editor, poorly designed bnet) and the entry cost is too high for newcomers. If you see a pro match of LoL or DotA, you can instantly go into a game and try out what you saw and suck at it. (for LoL you have to grind IP or pay money for a champion, but much less than paying $60 for WoL + HotS)
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We need to stop bashing other games and work as one. Instead of saying "LoL is not a real sport/game joke ez", we as a community need to work together. You dont see people saying "omg basketball so much better than football football ez" (there are, just not as many). If you read the forums, most community will bash on other games to make themselves feel like the game they are playing is the best game ever (why would you do this?).
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On July 16 2013 08:39 phodacbiet wrote:
We need to stop bashing other games and work as one. Instead of saying "LoL is not a real sport/game joke ez", we as a community need to work together. You dont see people saying "omg basketball so much better than football football ez" (there are, just not as many). If you read the forums, most community will bash on other games to make themselves feel like the game they are playing is the best game ever (why would you do this?).
No but you do hear people quarrel about American football versus soccer versus Rugby. Also there are people who prefer one sport over the other. I don't feel like I have to support other gaming communities if it's not my cup of tea.
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Hahha love the last line of the idra quote, classic idra
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On July 16 2013 08:32 Vestige wrote:
observe the LoL community. Do the exact opposite.
Point in case.
How about growing the fuck up? And not acting like retarded Jr highers throwing tantrums, and losing all ability to control yourself once a female is present.
Seriously this community is cancerous, and its disgusting. Everyone should be ashamed that the major personalities ALL speak out AGAINST reading the forums and reading reddit about these games because the community is so negative and fueled by hate.
Holding up a sign that bashes another game at a SC2 event just makes you look like a fearful child who is scared of other games taking your spotlight.
Seriously... you wanna know how many people in the League community talk about/bash SC2 especially at events? 0.
Because they dont give a shit about whether SC2 fails or succeeds, it doesnt matter to them as long as they support their scene and it succeeds and flourishes.
LoL World Finals are being held at the fucking STAPLES CENTER... you know.. WHERE THE LOS ANGELES LAKERS, maybe the most prolific/notorious sports/franchises in the world play?
Because they managed to sell out a college basketball stadium last year.
Seriously instead of hating on and bashing another game, which is by FAR the most successful esport game in the history of the planet, you should grow up and focus on being positive for your own game and not hateful toward others.
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On July 16 2013 08:54 IAmThEnd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 08:39 phodacbiet wrote:
We need to stop bashing other games and work as one. Instead of saying "LoL is not a real sport/game joke ez", we as a community need to work together. You dont see people saying "omg basketball so much better than football football ez" (there are, just not as many). If you read the forums, most community will bash on other games to make themselves feel like the game they are playing is the best game ever (why would you do this?). No but you do hear people quarrel about American football versus soccer versus Rugby. Also there are people who prefer one sport over the other. I don't feel like I have to support other gaming communities if it's not my cup of tea.
not supporting, and insulting are completely different things.
I dont like basketball... I dont go to football games and hold up a sign "Football > Basketball" cause that shits fucking stupid and rude.
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On July 16 2013 06:42 DeathProfessor wrote:
FGC stuff
not the way to go. some of the FGC stuff is nice for viewers in the know and all, but there's a reason all fighting games combined are still smaller than Starcraft, despite all the "SC2 is dying" garbage (fighting games actually did die, I know, I was there). The FGC is extremely insular, super hostile to anyone and everyone that isn't already there, is extremely vulgar in way that mixes the worst of nerd culture with a pseudo gang-banger mentality. they pride themselves on community, but outside of all the shouting at Evo once a year they behave more like a gang. it took almost a decade to get even Capcom to acknowledge the community, much less any sponsors.
the biggest problem with esports is exclusiveness and hostility, racist/misogynist/homophobic/etc. language, entitlement, etc. the FGC is the worst of all of that, and that fact drowns out the positives
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On July 16 2013 08:25 Shinta) wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 02:16 DinoMight wrote:
I think some of the points you make are very good. Yesterday at EVO a lot of people were bashing on Super Smash Brothers as being "not a real fighting game" and not an e-SPORT, even though over 100k people were watching the event. Wait, are you serious? Are people really talking about that? Because not even a single game at EVO is an eSport, including SSF4 etc etc. Capcom has said it several times already that they do not support eSports and won't bring their game titles into the eSports scene. EVO is just an awesome gaming tournament. I wish that more game companies like Capcom would invest in the industry and bring their awesome games into the world of eSports though. Having those awesome fighting games included in our industry would be amazing. But honestly, one of the biggest things that we need to do to help grow eSports is to change our attitude. Like IdrA said, don't be so conceded, but also, just in general, we can't be such huge nerds. Being a nerd is awesome, and I always say that everyone is a nerd in their own way, but gaming nerds like to take it to another level a lot of the time and that really discourages people who aren't huge nerds to participate. Other people need to feel comfortable watching and playing games with the people who know a lot and follow/participate in the eSports scene. Right now, they look at us as intense gamers who are too weird to really collaborate with. In order to let eSports grow, we need to learn to accept other people, and that means opening ourselves up. With time, this will allow other people to learn to accept us, and after that they will be able to enjoy the same things we've come to enjoy.
how is evo event not esports? isnt esports competitive gaming?
or is this some kind of hipster mentality
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On July 16 2013 09:34 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 08:25 Shinta) wrote:On July 16 2013 02:16 DinoMight wrote:
I think some of the points you make are very good. Yesterday at EVO a lot of people were bashing on Super Smash Brothers as being "not a real fighting game" and not an e-SPORT, even though over 100k people were watching the event. Wait, are you serious? Are people really talking about that? Because not even a single game at EVO is an eSport, including SSF4 etc etc. Capcom has said it several times already that they do not support eSports and won't bring their game titles into the eSports scene. EVO is just an awesome gaming tournament. I wish that more game companies like Capcom would invest in the industry and bring their awesome games into the world of eSports though. Having those awesome fighting games included in our industry would be amazing. But honestly, one of the biggest things that we need to do to help grow eSports is to change our attitude. Like IdrA said, don't be so conceded, but also, just in general, we can't be such huge nerds. Being a nerd is awesome, and I always say that everyone is a nerd in their own way, but gaming nerds like to take it to another level a lot of the time and that really discourages people who aren't huge nerds to participate. Other people need to feel comfortable watching and playing games with the people who know a lot and follow/participate in the eSports scene. Right now, they look at us as intense gamers who are too weird to really collaborate with. In order to let eSports grow, we need to learn to accept other people, and that means opening ourselves up. With time, this will allow other people to learn to accept us, and after that they will be able to enjoy the same things we've come to enjoy. how is evo event not esports? isnt esports competitive gaming? or is this some kind of hipster mentality
the fighting game community refuses to let what they do be called an Esport.
Because they didnt coin the term so they reject it.
it's really that simple. Wheat has done multiple shows about the FGC killing itself over and over because of the egos associated with it.
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I love all your suggestions, they have such promise to them. I would be absolutely willing to help in any way I can to make 3,4,5,6 happen.
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I did it guys, I'm in the silver league now and it's true what they say. We all float down here. In fact.... WE ALLLLL FLOAT! WE ALLLLLLllL FLLLLOAAAT!
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On July 16 2013 09:04 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 08:32 Vestige wrote:
observe the LoL community. Do the exact opposite. Point in case. How about growing the fuck up? And not acting like retarded Jr highers throwing tantrums, and losing all ability to control yourself once a female is present. Seriously this community is cancerous, and its disgusting. Everyone should be ashamed that the major personalities ALL speak out AGAINST reading the forums and reading reddit about these games because the community is so negative and fueled by hate. Holding up a sign that bashes another game at a SC2 event just makes you look like a fearful child who is scared of other games taking your spotlight. Seriously... you wanna know how many people in the League community talk about/bash SC2 especially at events? 0. Because they dont give a shit about whether SC2 fails or succeeds, it doesnt matter to them as long as they support their scene and it succeeds and flourishes. LoL World Finals are being held at the fucking STAPLES CENTER... you know.. WHERE THE LOS ANGELES LAKERS, maybe the most prolific/notorious sports/franchises in the world play? Because they managed to sell out a college basketball stadium last year. Seriously instead of hating on and bashing another game, which is by FAR the most successful esport game in the history of the planet, you should grow up and focus on being positive for your own game and not hateful toward others.
You know it's funny because I watched my friend play a few games of SC2 (I haven't played in ages) and the first game his opponent told him to suck his dick right before he raged quit. After the game the kid pursued him by msging him more, which I found hilarious. The next game more of the same stuff. Next game after that some guy decided to offensive GG (not that I care) but many people seem to think just because there are more people playing in a team game there will be more derp but when you play 1v1 in SC the level of maturity is just about the same. I'm trying to think back to my BW days to think about all the BM. Heck I even asked my bud if he noticed he was playing any hackers and he said, "nope." Then you come to these boards and it's like on a whole different level with the whining and non-stop talking about other games as if they have any idea of what they're talking about or act like supremacists. Then we have threads like this and in all honesty its never going to change. You cannot fight ignorance. You can try to teach them about the game, but that only helps those who are actually interested or curious and we already have a lot of resources for that. I'd like to get rid of the whole idea of e-sports as a whole. We've spoken about it so many times meh. >_<
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On July 16 2013 09:21 negativedge wrote:not the way to go. some of the FGC stuff is nice for viewers in the know and all, but there's a reason all fighting games combined are still smaller than Starcraft, despite all the "SC2 is dying" garbage (fighting games actually did die, I know, I was there). The FGC is extremely insular, super hostile to anyone and everyone that isn't already there, is extremely vulgar in way that mixes the worst of nerd culture with a pseudo gang-banger mentality. they pride themselves on community, but outside of all the shouting at Evo once a year they behave more like a gang. it took almost a decade to get even Capcom to acknowledge the community, much less any sponsors. the biggest problem with esports is exclusiveness and hostility, racist/misogynist/homophobic/etc. language, entitlement, etc. the FGC is the worst of all of that, and that fact drowns out the positives
gee williker, I wonder why the FGC hates people like you. "your community is shit and you're all thugs....wait, why are you being mean to me?  "
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1. Encourage maturity, thoughtfulness, manners.
People who bash other games do so normally out of lack of at least one of the above. I'm nearly certain that people who aren't mature/intelligent/nice to other people/communities online aren't in real life. It's not an issue within e-sports specifically, but a societal issue with the demographic e-sports attracts the most.
There's not much.
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I wonder:
A lot of people rail on the LoL community for being immature.
What was BW's like back in the day? Can we reasonably rail on LoL's community for being full of little children when the roots of TL and a big player in eSports didn't have the most mature audience? (watch the NaDa/YellOw/Nal_rA interview to get an idea of what I'm talking about).
On the other hand, eSports is becoming more professional internationally. Should this alone be the reason that we're going to encourage maturity? I would say so.
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On July 16 2013 10:28 Kishin2 wrote:
1. Encourage maturity, thoughtfulness, manners.
People who bash other games do so normally out of lack of at least one of the above. I'm nearly certain that people who aren't mature/intelligent/nice to other people/communities online aren't in real life. It's not an issue within e-sports specifically, but a societal issue with the demographic e-sports attracts the most.
There's not much.
It's the internet. You cannot change the internet. That applies everything from forums, stream chat, banter in games etc. It's always going to be there. In games I try to set a good example and if I get through to a few people when I play then I say I did my job. Otherwise you have to accept it for what it is. Love calling out the little derps though because it's good fun. I think it goes way beyond age as well. Some people are pretty immature.
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On July 16 2013 10:32 IntoTheheart wrote:
I wonder:
A lot of people rail on the LoL community for being immature.
What was BW's like back in the day? Can we reasonably rail on LoL's community for being full of little children when the roots of TL and a big player in eSports didn't have the most mature audience? (watch the NaDa/YellOw/Nal_rA interview to get an idea of what I'm talking about).
On the other hand, eSports is becoming more professional internationally. Should this alone be the reason that we're going to encourage maturity? I would say so.
We had a lot of arguments in Clan Leagues, Nation Wars, etc. B.Net East was pretty bad (but it was everywhere-- east was by the worst in the early days like Vanilla SC Ladder chan; toyland, etc). Heck, we were all pretty bad when it came to which Nation was best and any time you bicker with guys in channels it would lead to them boasting about their record against the other guy or you flame bait them into a game or some shit. So yeah, it was pretty bad but at least we got straight to the point with our shit.
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Is there a community between pro sports fans?
Yep.
Are the fans of particular sports friendly towards fans of others?
Nope.
Why should eSports be any different from pro sports in this aspect?
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EPT
