EPT
and for "xy is op" should be given a ban xDE-sports: How can we improve as a Community? - Page 5
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Drake
Germany6146 Posts
and for "xy is op" should be given a ban xD | ||
|
vesicular
United States1310 Posts
On July 16 2013 05:57 neptunusfisk wrote: I think that the 'community' would benefit greatly from a bit less misogynical tendencies (yes, I'm mainly thinking about twitch chat, the only thing in the world even comparable to youtube comments) and a less macho image. I mean, some of the terms that casters use on regular basis are awkward. And where are the female casters? What's the deal with women only being considered competent for asking players how they feel about winning their games? I know Maddelisk casted SM, but it was only in swedish and for a newspaper, so it wasn't really the great mainstream esports content we all know. This is all the more relevant when you consider we had lilsusie casting with Tasteless during BW. I always thought she did a good job getting player backgrounds, histories, records, etc for the cast and generally asking good questions so noobs like me could understand what we were watching. This is something lacking in today's casting. | ||
|
intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
Personally I don't LOVE the SPL casters for English but that's not a reason to not watch it, that sort of thing. I think IdrA's got a bit of a point on the LoL thing though, and I'm scared for the future of eSports in a way. Riot has the money to bankroll massive tournaments and because of that , I wonder if any smaller-funded eSports games have started to die off in favour of it. The reasoning being, "Well I COULD play _____ and make money from it, or try to get good at LoL and stream + play in their tournaments for huge money." Hopefully this fear is ungrounded (I certainly don't have time to look at every single eSport and its growth) but at the same time it's interesting to look at the impact of LoL. | ||
|
Drake
Germany6146 Posts
i play lol and i find it so ... casual  even i like playing it sometimes i rly cant watch it for long and sc2 feels so like chess so ... no i think how we treat the others is fine | ||
|
Wertheron
France439 Posts
It's a problem, we need to be happy about the succes of the other esport games like LoL or Dota 2, and we don't have to be afraid about it. We will still be here, and TL is a good exemple of a dynamic community which will not disappear. If we are not afraid about other games, we will stop to criticize them, to insult other players. Like De Gaulle said: "Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first". We need to love our game, to stop being afraid about his decline and we will not hate the games of other guys. | ||
|
vesicular
United States1310 Posts
On July 16 2013 06:11 Wertheron wrote: SC2 community is weird, it's a community with a lot of fear. SC2 viewers/players are always afraid about decline, and the constant "SC2 is dying" thing is, for me, the big problem. It's the second esport game in the world, and even if Dota 2 reach one day this place, sc2 will still be a great esport game with tons of viewers, tournaments, teams and pro/casu players (look at CS GO, and you will see what is a esport game and community which have a lot of difficulties). But sc2 community continue (since nearly 2 years) to be afraid to decline or disappear because of other games. Think of how the scene even talks about itself in other ways. "High Masters" players, APM, talking about players who reach ro8 instead of winning the entire thing as being in a "slump", believing that long macro games are "better" than short games even though it's a *strategy* game, obsessions with viewership numbers, player salaries, winning totals, and crowd sizes more than interesting gameplay, etc, etc. People are number focused, and entirely blinded by them to the detriment of just watching and enjoying the game for what it is. It's no wonder being ranked #2 is not "good enough". Being ranked #2 in this community as anything is like a death knell. | ||
|
Sircoolguy
United States81 Posts
With regards to tension between communities this is certainly true, and is the case between the LoL and SC2 clubs/teams on my campus. There is a lot of bashing on both sides, which is slowly toning down due to changes in who runs the teams. One thing that probably doesn't help the tension is the nature of eSports events usually have to side stage one of the major eSports causing at least one side to get angry. Plus unlike sports such as football and baseball you don't have both games going on in one huge field where fans interact. So despite some people who would claim baseball is really boring to watch, and is dumb, etc. they would not actually go to a baseball game, so the problem sort of sorts itself out. Add in the fact the communities for eSports are extremely active online on sites such as reddit and TL, you end up with a lot more interaction between the fans. So the few jackasses willing to piss off one community can do it much easier, starting a flame war online. The tension will slowly fade as events start to become more independent, but until then it the only way to really prevent or stop the tension is for people to stop being elitist dicks about their games (hard to imagine that happening but hopefully will happen) | ||
|
DeathProfessor
United States1052 Posts
All I get from Blizzard is that they don't really care that a worldwide tournament doesn't have any flavor. 14-16 businesslike Koreans getting dat paycheck. They refuse to even throw a bone and give NA TWO spots as someone suggested. I guess I can respect the totalitarianism of Blizzard though. Hopefully their theory that people want the best games but have no reason to have dreams of competing will grow SCII as an eSport. What I am jealous of is Fighting Game Community. I feel like SC2 is better in many respects but they have a lot of things going right which I think we can use to improve as a community. FGC: Manages to have influential and interesting players that do not change week to week but continue long strings of dominance which allows massive hype and auras of Godlikeness like when Daigo enters a room, or Infiltration or PR Balrog or EG Justin Wong. SCII has great players they just need to be pimped. I am afraid to say it but we just need a fan culture in SCII which is unfortunately derided as "biased" by the community but should be encouraged to offer someone to believe in. Honestly, I think the community needs to allow some bias, and the community insisting on fair and balanced coverage has delivered only bland and beige coverage of events causing a severe lack of hype in many games. I think we could promote certain players like Innovation, MVP, Stephano, Naniwa excessively. Make them the stars. Then we will get more awareness if you will to players causing more fans of players to tune in. FGC: Has ZERO downtime. We need to cut ours down a looooot. SCII right now is like a baseball game, but worse. Like if each pitch the batter took a 1minute break.Game Over. Wait 2 min TOPS for ads then GO. FGC: Is professional yet informal. I think SCII has gotten too far away from its PC Bang roots and is too much like a business. Too many monkey suits and ties, too many "weather reports". Go back to Oxford shirts and ties no jackets, maybe cool t shirts, faster looser easier commentary, don't be afraid to shout at appropriate moments, have fun with it. People may think FGC is silly but except for like one F-Bomb the casters actually curse a LOT less than SCII casters. JS FGC: Crowds sit close to the players, making it way more intense. Community needs to get off its iPads and on its feetpads and we should put the community closer to the stage. I think as a community to improve the game, we need to be less orthodox, more welcoming, willing to accept some nationalism and accept some rabid fandom and stop the urge to make fun of people who take one players side over another "you don't wish BOTH players luck? You son of a bitch!" I have read comments like this on TL which is just insane to me. Then we may see expansion! We can still make it happen. But like some say maybe its too late to make SC2 popular anymore. | ||
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Blizzard is just bassackwards when it comes to their promotion IMO. Their latest Reddit AMA had me shaking my head. Me too, it was like watching a PR training video. I think FGC has earned a lot of merits, but it's also just a completely different situation and approach for them. | ||
|
Gowerly
United Kingdom916 Posts
Apologise if they've: - been said before - rile people up - both - neither - the first one on a wednesday uh... Okay So People have devoted themselves to a game, for whatever reason. Either they think it's the best thing ever, they want to be the best at it, they like the players in it, whatever reason, it doesn't matter. If something else comes along that's also popular, people feel an emotion. Fear. This is less likely to happen in other sports, because some of them have been around for centuries and, in general, they're not going to go anywhere. However, eSports can do one thing that those regular Sports do less of: Die. With Starcraft II, we've had a pretty rocky road. We thought that SC2 would just take over where broodwar left off, but it didn't really do that. People still prefer BW over SC2, and the audiences in Korea have kind of felt the same way about it. BW OSL finals filled stadia, SC2 struggles to do that. That's not to say that it won't, just that it doesn't as much as BW did. Now, is that comparison fair? Maybe, maybe not, but it exists. With the reception being below the expectations given to it, there's that fear that it will just curl up and die as an eSport. This is unlikely to happen as long as Blizzard keeps the money coming in, but even then we've had Blizzard's bizarre ruleset that comes with their money, but again, irrelevant. SC2 is a game where you ladder, you practice, generally by yourself, it's competitive, it's kind of lonely in 1v1 ladder, and that's it. You ladder, you occasionally compete. Then there's the community. Generally pretty nice. TL is a great place to come and post. I wouldn't have a 3 figure post count if you were all douche nozzles. Anyway, we're a friendly community that enjoys a competitive game of SC2. Learning strategies, playing hard, all that jazz. In comes League of Legends. It looks like it's been drawn in crayon, it's free to play, but with microtransactions everywhere, and it just seems that little bit casual. It starts off with no spectator mode, very few characters, and bizarre balance. However, it takes off, people start playing it, tournaments appear, suddenly it's the #1 watched game on Twitch. There's this idea that there are finitely many people (which there are) and they can only support one game at a time (some do). So there's this slight fear: If League really does well? will it take people from SC2 an will SC2, therefore, die? With that in mind there was a slight dislike of League that came from it. From the fear of it being fun and addictive enough to take players from SC2 there came the dismissal: "Oh it's just a stupid casual game." "League is DotA without the skill requirements", blahblah. There was this hope that, if people could stop their friends starting League, they'd stay in SC2 and we'd live on! Maybe League would go away! However, at latest stats tracking, everyone on the planet has, on average, 2.3 League accounts. They also have the loudest English casters known to man. I think they're fine. Again, this also comes from people pouring their heart out into a game for a long time . They don't want to think that it's for nothing and that the game will just go away! As you can see, though, this doesn't happen. BW still has its supporters and there are still even some tournaments. Even games that Supreme Commander have custom lobbies and 6-800 active users online at any one time. The problem is, though, if it goes down to that, will people think that they've wasted all that time? With that in mind, there is some enmity there. It's not there for everyone, though. I think most believe that we can co-exist. As usual, though, they're the quiet ones mostly  I think with DotA it's slightly different, as DotA came from Warcraft, which is from the same company as SC2, and so has more of a "this is our baby" feel to it. Even thought now it's made by Volvo. That's just how I see it, though. I can see why people would feel that way. It makes sense to me, however unfounded it is. Some people just want to be the most popular, or in the most popular crowd! Others just want to feel like what they have will last. For what it's worth, I play SC2, I play League, I play DotA. I'm uniformly bad at all of them, pretty much. | ||
|
titan55
United States227 Posts
| ||
|
BuddhaMonk
781 Posts
If you enjoy the game for what it is and just have fun, some of that enthusiasm will rub off on the people around you. SC2 is awesome, I love it. If MLG gets slightly less viewers this year, I don't give a shit, and neither should you. Most of the time the whiners are not even accurate about their complaints (just because you saw one concurrent number smaller than last year, doesn't mean there's less viewers overall, etc..). I also think the threads on Reddit and elsewhere that ask people to email sponsors and thank them are also a net negative because it leads to a scenario where things are not sustainable. Businesses want actual customers, not enthusiasts who just email sponsors all day. When you have these sort of activist people inflating data points on a short term level, I think you ultimately do more harm to the scene due to sponsor expectations being off the mark. As for following up on this cross-community stuff, I think this whole collaboration idea also falls under the "contrived and ultimately counter-productive" category. Are we seriously going to embark on some phony game outreach because of Twitch chat trolls? Seriously? Twitch chat trolls are now driving policy? I'm not condoning the troll behavior, but people should be genuine and love the games they love for real reasons, not because of some artificial outreach because people are terrified the scene is dying. That type of behavior ultimately hurts the scene. | ||
|
Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On July 16 2013 07:28 titan55 wrote: I would love to see a guide or resource of the pro scene of each game. SC2 is easy to follow here on TL and Dota 2 is now accessible. However, to me, games like CS:GO, LoL, and HoN, I don't know where to go for all the stats/liquidpedia/results. If people can let me know or someone can build a center of these data it would be great! For some games, it's not easily accessible, for others; it just means reading the right sites. ESEA covers CS:GO pretty heavily. LoL is covered by TL unofficially, no? | ||
|
Esoterikk
Canada1256 Posts
On July 16 2013 06:11 Wertheron wrote: SC2 community is weird, it's a community with a lot of fear. SC2 viewers/players are always afraid about decline, and the constant "SC2 is dying" thing is, for me, the big problem. It's the second esport game in the world, and even if Dota 2 reach one day this place, sc2 will still be a great esport game with tons of viewers, tournaments, teams and pro/casu players (look at CS GO, and you will see what is a esport game and community which have a lot of difficulties). But sc2 community continue (since nearly 2 years) to be afraid to decline or disappear because of other games. It's a problem, we need to be happy about the succes of the other esport games like LoL or Dota 2, and we don't have to be afraid about it. We will still be here, and TL is a good exemple of a dynamic community which will not disappear. If we are not afraid about other games, we will stop to criticize them, to insult other players. Like De Gaulle said: "Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first". We need to love our game, to stop being afraid about his decline and we will not hate the games of other guys. Actually as it stands now I would say Sc2 is in 3rd place. Afaik Dota 2 is already pulling in more viewers overall. Not to say Sc2 is dying but it's definitely in a slow decline. And you know what would fix this, if Blizzard got their head out of their ass and started fixing the Sc2 client and Bnet and make it less awful and boring. | ||
|
Meow-Meow
Germany451 Posts
Enjoy the years we have left, then move on to whatever is next. | ||
|
Gben592
United Kingdom281 Posts
Basically, people need to stop taking everything so seriously, and just relax a bit. (and I find threads like this a bit silly, but whatever...) Also im bored with everyone constantly talking and worrying about the state of sc2, honestly, just get on with it and play and enjoy the damn game. + if your new and you go on TL and read about how everyone thinks the game is going to die... idk, maybe not an ideal situation. | ||
|
Averse
United States40 Posts
I think this combined with the freedom of speech without consequence that is the internet can lead to some of the tension between gaming communities, and even inside our own. I feel like many forum users are extremely opinionated, dramatic, and critical even toward others in their own community. Your last simple suggestion is probably the best - I think everyone would need to find it in themselves to be more positive and constructive, myself included, to make the gaming community a better place. | ||
|
iky43210
United States2099 Posts
On July 16 2013 07:55 Esoterikk wrote: Actually as it stands now I would say Sc2 is in 3rd place. Afaik Dota 2 is already pulling in more viewers overall. Not to say Sc2 is dying but it's definitely in a slow decline. And you know what would fix this, if Blizzard got their head out of their ass and started fixing the Sc2 client and Bnet and make it less awful and boring. dota 2 don't pull more viewers long term, and never will be until they officially release the game. Unless you're in Russia, then that is a different story. | ||
|
Esoterikk
Canada1256 Posts
On July 16 2013 08:16 iky43210 wrote: dota 2 don't pull more viewers long term, and never will be until they officially release the game. Unless you're in Russia, then that is a different story. Umm the game was officially released a few weeks ago. | ||
|
vesicular
United States1310 Posts
On July 16 2013 07:16 Gowerly wrote: With Starcraft II, we've had a pretty rocky road. We thought that SC2 would just take over where broodwar left off, but it didn't really do that. People still prefer BW over SC2, and the audiences in Korea have kind of felt the same way about it. BW OSL finals filled stadia, SC2 struggles to do that. In Korea. SC2 is hugely more popular than BW ever was in the west. This is not debatable. The problem is that instead of celebrating that fact, we somehow feel the need to compare it to LoL instead. No longer is the success of SC2 in the west considered as a triumph, it's now seen as "SC is dying". And that's pretty sad when you stop to think about it. | ||
| ||
