EPT
. I would've loved to see Lucifron in EG or TL (ofc in EGTL!). That might've been the strong terran player they needed. Though I'm not sure about Lucifrons true strength compared to full-time koreans. Sad to see Thorzain slumping. EG-TL: An Analysis - Page 5
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
. I would've loved to see Lucifron in EG or TL (ofc in EGTL!). That might've been the strong terran player they needed. Though I'm not sure about Lucifrons true strength compared to full-time koreans. Sad to see Thorzain slumping. | ||
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True_Spike
Poland3434 Posts
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Pazuzu
United States632 Posts
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ymir233
United States8275 Posts
------You must be this high to ride this ride------ TL lolololololol Nice work summing it up visually though. | ||
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
On July 10 2013 21:34 Telcontar wrote: Pulling out due to poor ROI would be a bit of a cop out, wouldn't it? Did they seriously expect to make the playoffs in their first year, or strike rich? Here I was thinking it was a long term project and they were aiming to build a legacy in the Korean scene. I guess it was just a half-hearted, or an ill-thought experiment. These were all my same thoughts. I want to see them again next season. | ||
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ZackAttack
United States884 Posts
On July 11 2013 04:04 True_Spike wrote: I hope that rather than pull out prematurely EG-TL will actually learn on past mistakes and improve in the next season. They already made a few decent decisions, albeit a tad too late. Leaving proleague will only hurt their players anyway. I too hope that EG-TL go balls deep next season. | ||
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Ender985
Spain910 Posts
On July 10 2013 21:56 StarStruck wrote: All I want to know is who put you up to this? lol. I did it for Science!! I've seen some comments regarding the lack of win ratios, like this one: On July 11 2013 03:02 Honner wrote: Nice write-up, but I'm not sure 'number of wins' is a good measure. Win % would be a more interesting statistic imo which I addressed in an edit in the OP, but to reemphasize: basically I think win% is a fixed value for each player, and that a time course of it would only show fluctuations and slow convergence to that value, which to me was not very interesting. I understand it is still an informative value, and this is why I commented on its values on several parts of the analysis; but if you are missing some you can check them all in the Proleague Statistics page of Liquipedia. On July 11 2013 03:54 tili wrote: The only thing I'd be interested in seeing is which races/teams they performed worst against and why. Map analysis might also be interesting... I also thought of trying to figure out if they had lost more often to some race than the others, or to some other team for that matter.. But it was already 2 in the morning and that analysis would be far more complex than what I did here, so I ruled that out. If someone is up to the challenge, it would be pretty interesting to see! On July 11 2013 01:19 Monsen wrote: Conclusion? Flash *zoom* AAHAAAAAAAAAAA I was about to write exactly this in the conclusions xD On July 10 2013 18:56 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Uh obviously yes, because if that would have been the case the ROI would have been off the charts amazing? I hope they try again, but it is incredibly expensive, and the other teams are incredibly good - hard to make it worthwhile. (Yeah Jinro in my thread! Go Jinro!!) To add to this discussion: I was unaware that iNcontroL had already said that there is a good possibility that EG-TL won't be continuing for the next season... That would be a real shame I think. For me this season was a fun ride, but I was always thinking that they would do much better next season, with the players already used to the Proleague format and with a competent coach that can keep the team together. The only thing they seem to need is to form a small and consistent core of players (current or new) whose main goal would be to focus on Proleague, rather than to fly to tournaments around the globe too often. With that, they should be set and ready to take it to the playoffs at least. On the other hand, as some posters have already pointed out, if EG-TL was to 'disband' and leave Proleague, it's a possibility that Jaedong would then go back to Team8 (now Green Wings?) since he is technically on a lease. Stephano is going to retire this August, so that would leave the EG roster without two of their absolute best players. I don't think that would be a good move for the team, but maybe they can manage to keep Jaedong without competing in Proleague, who knows. Alternatively, if STX were to disband due to their economic problems, then EG.INnoVation would be a real possibility (which would make me an EG fan for lyfe! xD). For Liquid, personally I think they should let go of Zenio, since has been consistently underperforming for at least a year and he showcases zero personality, making him difficult to justify. And in his place grab some other Terran player, like they already attempted with Liquid`Sea which unfortunately did not pan out. But well, I guess we'll just wait and see what ends up happening with this. | ||
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
OK Zenio won 2 maps since like March. How many games did he play? That 2 win increase means nothing. Coach Park joins. Suddenly players stop winning? Stop being played? A good thing would be a summary win % for the play pre and post Park, if anything, or a cumulative games played chart as well as wins, since the player graph means absolutely nothing as-is. On the other hand, we can clearly see why PuMa was booted from EG, winning only 1 map out of 8 that he played No, we can't clearly see that. We can see that he had one win, total, from an unknown number of games. Cumulative wins on the other hand show progression, and also show losses (when there is a point in the graph but the number does not increase) No it doesn't, it shows cumulative wins. It tells you absolutely nothing about losses when there are 13 players with only up to 4 playing in any one team match. That tells you that someone won if they played, it doesn't tell you about losses. I know it's being somewhat nit-picky, but IMO while the graphs are nice and all, they don't really say anything about EG-TLs performance, because wins in isolation mean absolutely nothing. You could show a baseball team winning 60 games in a year, and a football (soccer) team winning 10. The baseball team could have a 25% winratio and the soccer team might also have a 25% winratio. "But Lonyo, they play different numbers of games in a baseball season vs football (soccer) season". Exactly, that's my point. Terran got 17 wins, Protoss got 46 or something. Does that mean the protosses were over twice as good as the terrans? No, it means they probably played over twice as many games. The text below the graphs says a lot more than the graphs say, which is unfortunate, because picture blah blah 1000 words. The information is there, but it's not presented in a meaningful way IMO. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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Martacus
25 Posts
Had a good out-loud chuckle at the graph of EG, TL....and Flash haha. Thanks for sharing! | ||
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bypLy
757 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27479 Posts
HerO started terribly in HoTS and has really come on, won WCS NA, and a top 4 in an MLG and a Dreamhack. Oz and Alive are being rehabilitated after poor spells on Fnatic etc. Yeah perhaps PL is too much of a drain, but equally the training environment that their players benefit from can snowball into benefits for the teams in terms of individual results and exposure. | ||
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Boucot
France15997 Posts
And it was pretty obvious that the ROI wouldn't be good as only the finalists earn money (and I don't even know if the prize pool covers all the expenses of the season). | ||
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Neemi
Netherlands657 Posts
Hero won WCS NA, top 4 MLG & Dreamhack Jaedong got pretty far at MLG, second at Dreamhack, top 4 at another Dreamhack, only losing to Protoss Oz and Alive are actually pretty competitive again Revival took second in WCS NA. Taeja won HSC, top 4 in Dreamhack Snute took second in HSC & won ESET UK So while Zenio + JYP don't have many notable accomplishments outside PL since then, JYP did play well at PL and I'd say most players are actually in an upward swing or remaining pretty consistent. Even Ret and especially TLO seem to be doing better than before Park haha Anyway, I hope they try for at least one more season. There's no arguing they had a bad start but now they know what to expect. I don't see Innovation coming over to EGTL as he doesn't really seem to care for foreign tournaments, but either way, with 1 or 2 additions to the team they can actually make it far. I'm just going to hope (: | ||
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IamHobbyless
Germany29 Posts
 Also i still want a unholy alliance tshirts :D | ||
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
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Ender985
Spain910 Posts
Sad that they rather be the big fish in a small pond. | ||
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
On July 11 2013 19:04 Ender985 wrote: Hm now that I've realized that the SC2 League announcement was posted by iNcontroL himself, stating that "We want the SC2L to become the Western world's premier team league", and announcing that both Liquid and EG will compete in it, I find it more and more likely that they have already ditched the idea of a second Proleague round. Sad that they rather be the big fish in a small pond. I dont think such a league can be successful. The best teams have lots of koreans in them, who are also their best players. Who is the target audience? People watching to see high level sc2 --> SPL/GSL People watching to be entertained --> will mostly see foreigners getting slaughtered by Hero/MMA/JD People watching to see foreigners --> will get old pretty quick after realising the skill gap | ||
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ArchDC
Malaysia1996 Posts
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