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So before I start this off I made this thread before but it got shut down due to links I used as apparently I was trying to promote another website so I'll be retyping the whole thing again and you guys will have to use your imagination I'm afraid (I might make some kinda picture of it for you or cut out the url etc)
So for the imaginative minds who can't see it working don't just post crap and remember this works for others games so saying '' No one would ever do this '' If you have nothing productive to say... don't say it
Hello, I've been watching Starcraft for ages and mainly what you the community has is tournaments which is really viable for lesser talented Starcraft competitive gamers, but what if you could play 1v1 for Cash?
Why doesn't Blizzard do what other games do? Blizzard with make money from every game played and it's very profitable for players too.
Now this a style from a site who does this and I'll walk you through what they do.
Pick the game you want to play... go into a lobby where other games will be and there will be a big chat room where gamers will speak and decide who they want to play
(Admin just message me if things need to be taken off or give me notice so I can rearrange things)
Now lets say you can go into a lobby like this, and when you play you'll get a skill level and maybe if a starcraft one got made you could also add there rank and add separate lobbies for Bronze, Silver, Gold etc
http://vvcap.net/db/9Lrp7-LcFTQGGkleMg4R.htp
Now you may say, well people will pretend they're in gold and never rank up, this is why a record could be placed so if they have a good record others will avoid them in that same category
Then you find someone to challenge and put the price in and see if they guy accepts, (Just an example) let's say you placed a $20 Challenge bet, the winner will receive $35.20 (as the company takes 12% of the prize pot)
http://vvcap.net/db/_q0NUsDSa0qqFTflem9f.htp
Then add a rule like, what map you want to play or something along those lines
So basically the point I'm making is Blizzard can make more money, less known players can make money and potentially get noticed by beating some good players etc.. It's a way for people to get noticed, then Blizzard could also add little tournaments on there with a buy in price and it will just make life easier, and the less talented players can have a chance on gaining some cash
Now with WCS around Blizzard are throwing a lot of money into it, now imagine how much bigger that prize pool would be in WCS if they take that 12% they make from every money game played. The site that does this does a $1million dollar tournament every year.. so that's how much they can give back to the community as they make that much off the gambling profits of gamers. That 12% they keep pays for staff, and little tournaments and bigger ones, so everyone is happy and richer (if they're smart)
(Well what about cheaters and multi-accounts)
Before you can withdraw your money you earned they have to send their ID to the company and get a validation.
Please ask me questions if you have any.
No silly comments again like '' everyone will cheese so stupid idea ''
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can only speak for myself, but i would never ever do that
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this business model makes no sense... if the return is 0% for a loss and less than 200% for a win, every player will lose money assuming a 50/50 winrate. financially it would only benefit the company hosting it or someone who could guarantee a winrate higher than 50% (in other words you would have to be preying on players you already know can't beat you)
it's also a pyramid scheme, and a really poorly-designed one at that
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I wouldn't do it, but I can imagine people would, and I don't see that much wrong with it.
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Not sure why someone would do this given that we know hackers are always around. Though like the previous poster said, I can only speak for myself.
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I think there are more than enough cups and tournament qualifiers for everyone out there to feel competetive at any level of play.
I might do this untill I lost my first game and then would just spend my time practicing rather than losing money.
Also everyone will cheese so stupid idea!
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On July 09 2013 01:39 Waise wrote:
this business model makes no sense... if the return is 0% for a loss and less than 200% for a win, every player will lose money assuming a 50/50 winrate. financially it would only benefit the company hosting it or someone who could guarantee a winrate higher than 50% (in other words you would have to be preying on players you already know can't beat you)
it's also a pyramid scheme, and a really poorly-designed one at that
It works the exact same way as online poker, but i guess that business model "makes no sense"
holy cow
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ye its a good idea in theory but it all boils down to . . the guy ur playing aint really at that level. Back in the day of playhem really enjoyed doing the daily bz-gold tournies . . .when i actually was gold but i never got out of the first couple of brackets . . i was top 1 in the gold league ehhehehe . . i should ownz all these bz and silver level playas . . . No. On looking at reps they have 215 apm in most cases and the tell tale was looking at their highest division reached to see they were mostly all dias and masters . .
so. . . i suppose you could play for cash but its just far too heavily flawed, not to mention cheaters and the like. Its a great idea but its something which cannot be truly policed . . other than that i could get another account in 5 mins on another email do the necessary to make it look legit bz and away i go!
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You'd have to be at a 62% winrate just to brake even. It seems like a way to just steal people money to me. You'd get better rates at the casino.
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Seems impossible to police all the smurfs and barcodes. I think it would be way too easy to game the system, and that is without even factoring in maphackers.
And yes, people would do that, even for small amounts of money.
As others have said, I'd never try this; I would expect to get scammed one way or another.
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On July 09 2013 01:48 skirmisheR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 01:39 Waise wrote:
this business model makes no sense... if the return is 0% for a loss and less than 200% for a win, every player will lose money assuming a 50/50 winrate. financially it would only benefit the company hosting it or someone who could guarantee a winrate higher than 50% (in other words you would have to be preying on players you already know can't beat you)
it's also a pyramid scheme, and a really poorly-designed one at that It works the exact same way as online poker, but i guess that business model "makes no sense" holy cow
starcraft is not poker for so many reasons that the comparison is irrelevant, and by makes no sense i meant it makes no sense for the person risking their money. not sure why you're picking this argument when the point is that the OP is literally trying to swindle people out of money by lying and saying they have something to gain (again, unless they're willing to take advantage of people)
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Yeah that would be a good idea. Great even. I could buy a new copy of SC everyday because I just make a new account and slaughter bronze people for cash. Also what about hackers.
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IMO: there are enough games to gamble on out there, as well as pro's in sc2 don't need this type of thing to get by financially. Many would also not play in a situation where they would only make say $20, with the chance of losing to someone who would damage their e-peen too much is they lost. There are enough tournaments to get exposure for lesser-known players. If people want to make money playing games, go play cards, ect.
Rant over.
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On July 09 2013 01:50 HardlyNever wrote:
And yes, people would do that, even for small amounts of money.
sure people would do it, but i personally think those of us who know it's a mathematically losing proposition have a moral responsibility to prevent people from buying into this
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Would never ever be implemented because some countries have strict Online gambling laws - The same reason some countries are excluded from the WoW Arena Tournaments people pay to enter.
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i want to remind you guys that the OP is explicitly presenting this idea as a "way for lesser known players to make money". this is a textbook pyramid scheme. there is no way to take financial advantage of this format unless you already know you're going to win most of your games, which means you're either intentionally challenging weaker players than you or you have some kind of hack or exploit to increase your winrate
he is saying "this is a way to make money," and it's just not
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Well if you could make it like a automated hosting service that would setup a BO3 and would have replays that could solve the problem of the chease and hacks
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On July 09 2013 01:48 StatixEx wrote:
ye its a good idea in theory but it all boils down to . . the guy ur playing aint really at that level. Back in the day of playhem really enjoyed doing the daily bz-gold tournies . . .when i actually was gold but i never got out of the first couple of brackets . . i was top 1 in the gold league ehhehehe . . i should ownz all these bz and silver level playas . . . No. On looking at reps they have 215 apm in most cases and the tell tale was looking at their highest division reached to see they were mostly all dias and masters . .
so. . . i suppose you could play for cash but its just far too heavily flawed, not to mention cheaters and the like. Its a great idea but its something which cannot be truly policed . . other than that i could get another account in 5 mins on another email do the necessary to make it look legit bz and away i go!
Then it was agaist playhem rules. I got kicked out from diaplat tournament coz I was master longtime ago and admin even showed rule.
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On July 09 2013 01:57 Waise wrote:
i want to remind you guys that the OP is explicitly presenting this idea as a "way for lesser known players to make money". this is a textbook pyramid scheme. there is no way to take financial advantage of this format unless you already know you're going to win most of your games, which means you're either intentionally challenging weaker players than you or you have some kind of hack or exploit to increase your winrate
he is saying "this is a way to make money," and it's just not You have no idea what a pyramid scheme is. And what you say applies to all casinos, but we all know that's a completely failed business model, right?
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Katowice25012 Posts
Your original post was called "gambling on StarCraft" and that's your answer. The legal and social implications of a huge, publicly traded company encouraging their users, many of whom are underage, to gamble on their product for cash are hugely negative. The logistics can never work out in a way where it's worth their effort.
Also 12% rake is pretty laughable.
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You need to win more than 62% to break even, in an environment you cant put a ton of faith in...losing proposition all around. The rake is too high to make any real money, and unlike a casino poker game this is a flat percentage that scales up with the stakes (poker games get cheaper as you play higher, also)
You would do better off playing casino blackjack, or slot machines, than you would paying a 12% rake to play starcraft, to say nothing of casino comps.
The guy that said those that understand why this is so terrible have an obligation to inform those that dont has it right.
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Not only will it be very difficult to make money if you don't pick on weaker players, the other problem is that I live in South Africa. $1 = 10.17 South African Rand. Ouch!
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On July 09 2013 01:48 StatixEx wrote:
ye its a good idea in theory but it all boils down to . . the guy ur playing aint really at that level. Back in the day of playhem really enjoyed doing the daily bz-gold tournies . . .when i actually was gold but i never got out of the first couple of brackets . . i was top 1 in the gold league ehhehehe . . i should ownz all these bz and silver level playas . . . No. On looking at reps they have 215 apm in most cases and the tell tale was looking at their highest division reached to see they were mostly all dias and masters . .
so. . . i suppose you could play for cash but its just far too heavily flawed, not to mention cheaters and the like. Its a great idea but its something which cannot be truly policed . . other than that i could get another account in 5 mins on another email do the necessary to make it look legit bz and away i go!
You say good Idea in theory but it's a success on other games, and saying you could make a new account etc, it just would not work, as the Passport ID comes into play and you wouldn't be able to get your money out.
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On July 09 2013 01:50 Nirel wrote:
You'd have to be at a 62% winrate just to brake even. It seems like a way to just steal people money to me. You'd get better rates at the casino.
Win rate doesn't matter seriously,, If I lost a game for say $50 but won a game for $100, that's 50%Win rate but I'd be $28's up
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That wouldn't work,and its probably illegal in some countries.
Gaming for most people is about having fun not money.
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United States996 Posts
if a record of games played for gambling is the only criterion used for this service, this would boil down to people finding all sorts of ways to misrepresent their skill level all day. to make this actually viable, you would need some seriously indepth requirements for personal verification [webcam, constant ip checks, photo id to compare to account associated with the account playing] would be sort of funny to see gm players only getting action vs other gm players on bronze accounts though.
and obligatory -> 12%? holy god no.
edit: just read that id is required before cashing out. step in the right direction but need way more checks still in place to preserve any sort of integrity of the service
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I made £800 in under 2months back when I use to play on the gaming gambling site so saying this is pointless idea for starcraft is just you making an excuse to moan
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On July 09 2013 02:18 Liquid`Zephyr wrote:
if a record of games played for gambling is the only criterion used for this service, this would boil down to people finding all sorts of ways to misrepresent their skill level all day. to make this actually viable, you would need some seriously indepth requirements for personal verification [webcam, constant ip checks, photo id to compare to account associated with the account playing] would be sort of funny to see gm players only getting action vs other gm players on bronze accounts though.
and obligatory -> 12%? holy god no.
Best profit rate ever and all you did was hold money for like 20-35 minutes. Even Bank of America doesn't go for that level of gouge.
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I think you guys are going beside the point of this gambling system that could be made and instead you want to moan about something that's just an example of what profits the website can make off it,
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On July 09 2013 01:53 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 01:48 skirmisheR wrote:On July 09 2013 01:39 Waise wrote:
this business model makes no sense... if the return is 0% for a loss and less than 200% for a win, every player will lose money assuming a 50/50 winrate. financially it would only benefit the company hosting it or someone who could guarantee a winrate higher than 50% (in other words you would have to be preying on players you already know can't beat you)
it's also a pyramid scheme, and a really poorly-designed one at that It works the exact same way as online poker, but i guess that business model "makes no sense" holy cow starcraft is not poker for so many reasons that the comparison is irrelevant, and by makes no sense i meant it makes no sense for the person risking their money. not sure why you're picking this argument when the point is that the OP is literally trying to swindle people out of money by lying and saying they have something to gain (again, unless they're willing to take advantage of people)
Starcraft is almost identical to heads up poker, and that business model is what every casino uses, lol
Not saying that I like OPs story, but the statement "this business model makes no sense" is just false.
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United States996 Posts
having a service that offers gambling in video games is definitely an idea [albeit controversial and logistically incredibly hard]
however, the idea of the service you are providing, as it stands, is asinine because it falls infinitely short of protecting the integrity of the game and the people who play it - and the rake taken from the site per match is laughably high
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On July 09 2013 02:29 Liquid`Zephyr wrote:
having a service that offers gambling in video games is definitely an idea [albeit controversial and logistically incredibly hard]
however, the idea of the service you are providing, as it stands, is asinine because it falls infinitely short of protecting the integrity of the game and the people who play it - and the rake taken from the site per match is laughably high
The rake is just an example christ
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I don't think this is possible in sc2. We can compare this to poker, where you only play for money. In poker you can do that because you face random players, and if you are better than the average you can win more money than you lose in the long term. In Starcraft 2, if (like you say) you play people of your level it's pointless because you will always have around 50% winrate and you will be losing money. On the other hand, even if there was a system which could put you against random people (like the ladder but without mmr and leagues), I doubt that anyone except the very best players would do that since you don't know who you play against (luck factor is much smaller than in poker), and at that point you can just organize a showmatch with streams, prizepool and everything and it's better.
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12% rake?
Rofl thats criminal
So i have a 50% win loss play 8 matches and you have raked a whole match worth of winnings?
you would need about 70% win rate to be a winner which would automatically move you out of the skill bracket you claim to be in.
Broken system is broken.
I dont think OP gets the idea of gambling. The ENTIRE game is finding suckers and taking their money.
The reason why poker works is that you play tens of thousands of hands and so your skill is hidden - even then making players results availalbe is considered cheating when you make your hands available to others.
One example would be brian townsends destruction of isildur iirc. TBH in my book thats good poker - the stupid thing was saying that he did it in public.
You play someone and lose you get another account and get it back after figuring out why you lost.
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On July 09 2013 02:30 Batiste wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 02:29 Liquid`Zephyr wrote:
having a service that offers gambling in video games is definitely an idea [albeit controversial and logistically incredibly hard]
however, the idea of the service you are providing, as it stands, is asinine because it falls infinitely short of protecting the integrity of the game and the people who play it - and the rake taken from the site per match is laughably high The rake is just an example christ
Its a crappy example and you might want to change it, since it is dominating the discussion.
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On July 09 2013 02:31 MrTortoise wrote:
12% rake?
Rofl thats criminal
So i have a 50% win loss play 8 matches and you have raked a whole match worth of winnings?
you would need about 70% win rate to be a winner which would automatically move you out of the skill bracket you claim to be in.
Broken system is broken.
I'll repeat what I said shall I?
That's only if you play for the same amount of money in every game... you can still be on profit even if you have a 50% win rate, just depends on how much you play for in each game
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I would never participate in such a system. Something like that is too tempting for players to cheat, most likely by misrepresenting their skill-level and/or using friends accounts who are in on the ordeal (or by using various hacks and similar stuff that seem to be extremely hard to detect).
Furthermore, it's not something Blizzard can encourage with a large proportion of their player base being minors.
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On July 09 2013 02:34 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 02:30 Batiste wrote:On July 09 2013 02:29 Liquid`Zephyr wrote:
having a service that offers gambling in video games is definitely an idea [albeit controversial and logistically incredibly hard]
however, the idea of the service you are providing, as it stands, is asinine because it falls infinitely short of protecting the integrity of the game and the people who play it - and the rake taken from the site per match is laughably high The rake is just an example christ Its a crappy example and you might want to change it, since it is dominating the discussion.
the example is not 'crappy' as it's a real example, 12% isn't as bad as you think, to be honest back when I was doing this gaming gambling everyone was happy and the site had that rake for years but now they may be going to 6% Rake for premium members and get 50 games free rake for just $8 a month, suppose this will be better example but that's to much for little minds to understand so I just kept it simple for the incapable.
And 12% doesn't even matter to the winner, end of they day the winner makes money and just means the loser will have to play either for more money to breakeven in his next game or have to win his next two games for same amount to get profit
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On July 09 2013 02:34 Batiste wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 02:31 MrTortoise wrote:
12% rake?
Rofl thats criminal
So i have a 50% win loss play 8 matches and you have raked a whole match worth of winnings?
you would need about 70% win rate to be a winner which would automatically move you out of the skill bracket you claim to be in.
Broken system is broken. I'll repeat what I said shall I? That's only if you play for the same amount of money in every game... you can still be on profit even if you have a 50% win rate, just depends on how much you play for in each game
If you have any rake and you win 50% you have lost by definition because you care about your return on your investment when you repeat that action x number of times
You don't understand equity.
12% is GIGANTIC.
5% in poker is almost crippling. I dont think you get the win rate of consistent winners. Also your arguments are very very straw man.
what do you think realistic odds of winning are?
70% is very very large ... 60% is a bet you would make all day every day (hell 51% is but lets be honest rake destroys that one)
the whole reason why QQ vs AK in poker is so fuckign annoying is that its a 5% hand which guess what ... gets raked at 5% but leaves you with the whole variance.
You are playing with 5% odds most of the time. You take 12% rake you will only see sandbaggers - thats all you see in poker with 5% rake. The very few far far stronger players taking money off people so bad they cant see how much stronger the winners are. 99% of players get destroyed by rake - or just being bad.
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On July 09 2013 02:34 JKM wrote:
I would never participate in such a system. Something like that is too tempting for players to cheat, most likely by misrepresenting their skill-level and/or using friends accounts who are in on the ordeal (or by using various hacks and similar stuff that seem to be extremely hard to detect).
Furthermore, it's not something Blizzard can encourage with a large proportion of their player base being minors.
Every games large proportion are minors
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On July 09 2013 02:41 MrTortoise wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 02:34 Batiste wrote:On July 09 2013 02:31 MrTortoise wrote:
12% rake?
Rofl thats criminal
So i have a 50% win loss play 8 matches and you have raked a whole match worth of winnings?
you would need about 70% win rate to be a winner which would automatically move you out of the skill bracket you claim to be in.
Broken system is broken. I'll repeat what I said shall I? That's only if you play for the same amount of money in every game... you can still be on profit even if you have a 50% win rate, just depends on how much you play for in each game If you have any rake and you win 50% you have lost by definition because you care about your return on your investment when you repeat that action x number of times You don't understand equity.
You don't understand that I 3 years experience in gambling for money on by playing games, you don't so please, shh you really have no clue what you're talking about, also in game you have 50/50 chance you'll win, Poker is not 50/50 so please don't pair them together
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United States996 Posts
On July 09 2013 02:39 Batiste wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 02:34 Plansix wrote:On July 09 2013 02:30 Batiste wrote:On July 09 2013 02:29 Liquid`Zephyr wrote:
having a service that offers gambling in video games is definitely an idea [albeit controversial and logistically incredibly hard]
however, the idea of the service you are providing, as it stands, is asinine because it falls infinitely short of protecting the integrity of the game and the people who play it - and the rake taken from the site per match is laughably high The rake is just an example christ Its a crappy example and you might want to change it, since it is dominating the discussion. the example is not 'crappy' as it's a real example, 12% isn't as bad as you think, to be honest back when I was doing this gaming gambling everyone was happy and the site had that rake for years but now they may be going to 6% Rake for premium members and get 50 games free rake for just $8 a month, suppose this will be better example but that's to much for little minds to understand so I just kept it simple for the incapable. And 12% doesn't even matter to the winner, end of they day the winner makes money and just means the loser will have to play either for more money to breakeven in his next game or have to win his next two games for same amount to get profit
i dont think you get to write that first paragraph and then be blatantly wrong about the bolded part. since the original losers winning games are racked twice he is not up the same amount as a person that has won once outright. thats the whole point about the size of the rake mattering
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On July 09 2013 02:46 Liquid`Zephyr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 02:39 Batiste wrote:On July 09 2013 02:34 Plansix wrote:On July 09 2013 02:30 Batiste wrote:On July 09 2013 02:29 Liquid`Zephyr wrote:
having a service that offers gambling in video games is definitely an idea [albeit controversial and logistically incredibly hard]
however, the idea of the service you are providing, as it stands, is asinine because it falls infinitely short of protecting the integrity of the game and the people who play it - and the rake taken from the site per match is laughably high The rake is just an example christ Its a crappy example and you might want to change it, since it is dominating the discussion. the example is not 'crappy' as it's a real example, 12% isn't as bad as you think, to be honest back when I was doing this gaming gambling everyone was happy and the site had that rake for years but now they may be going to 6% Rake for premium members and get 50 games free rake for just $8 a month, suppose this will be better example but that's to much for little minds to understand so I just kept it simple for the incapable. And 12% doesn't even matter to the winner, end of they day the winner makes money and just means the loser will have to play either for more money to breakeven in his next game or have to win his next two games for same amount to get profit i dont think you get to write that first paragraph and then be blatantly wrong about the bolded part. since the original losers winning games are racked twice he is not up the same amount as a person that has won once outright. thats the whole point about the size of the rake mattering
Yes but no matter what the rake he will have to win two games to be back in profit if he played for the same amount of money as he lost.
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On July 09 2013 02:41 Batiste wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 02:34 JKM wrote:
I would never participate in such a system. Something like that is too tempting for players to cheat, most likely by misrepresenting their skill-level and/or using friends accounts who are in on the ordeal (or by using various hacks and similar stuff that seem to be extremely hard to detect).
Furthermore, it's not something Blizzard can encourage with a large proportion of their player base being minors.
Every games large proportion are minors
And I am not aware of major online games that allow minors to gamble directly against each other - that is arranged/monetized by the publisher.
Even if it wasn't a problem for Blizzard, I still don't see how it'd ever become legitimate with the huge risk of cheating and that the system that basically feed money upwards (on a skill-ladder). If you play against opponents who match your skill you will win 50% of your games and since the pool is diminished (12%) you will be losing money. From a equity point of view most players will never win money and unlike online poker (and similar) you can't get lucky, in SC2 you will always start with 6 workers and a base.
Gambling on pro-matches is do-able, but still don't see Blizzard associating itself with it.
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On July 09 2013 02:04 Heyoka wrote:
Your original post was called "gambling on StarCraft" and that's your answer. The legal and social implications of a huge, publicly traded company encouraging their users, many of whom are underage, to gamble on their product for cash are hugely negative. The logistics can never work out in a way where it's worth their effort.
Also 12% rake is pretty laughable.
Couldn’t be more accurate.
Years ago I worked with a company then called “Neteller” that dealt exclusively with online gambling funds transfers. To make a long story short in 2006 the U.S government started strictly enforcing the ‘federal wire act’ which prohibits the transfer of funds across state lines for the purpose of betting on sport.
The idea that Blizzard would segregate their largest market (The US) is outlandish. To go even further they would have to confirm the Identity and age of every single Battle.net client to be sure they’re of age and would be forced to close the accounts of those who aren’t, as already stated that would be a large portion of the online populace.
I guess in the end it’s a somewhat interesting idea to talk about, but it’s not even in the realm of being considered or remotely plausible.
On a side note does anyone want to bet that someone will figure a way to turn this into a religious debate? Anyone here willing to be a commissioner for a cut off the top!?
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Why not rip off the players when coming up with a business model?
Its like having a car washing business and charging 100 dollars a car in your ads. Then saying its just an example, it makes no god damn sense.
Also tell me about the rakeback your site offers.
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On July 09 2013 02:42 Batiste wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 02:41 MrTortoise wrote:On July 09 2013 02:34 Batiste wrote:On July 09 2013 02:31 MrTortoise wrote:
12% rake?
Rofl thats criminal
So i have a 50% win loss play 8 matches and you have raked a whole match worth of winnings?
you would need about 70% win rate to be a winner which would automatically move you out of the skill bracket you claim to be in.
Broken system is broken. I'll repeat what I said shall I? That's only if you play for the same amount of money in every game... you can still be on profit even if you have a 50% win rate, just depends on how much you play for in each game If you have any rake and you win 50% you have lost by definition because you care about your return on your investment when you repeat that action x number of times You don't understand equity. You don't understand that I 3 years experience in gambling for money on by playing games, you don't so please, shh you really have no clue what you're talking about, also in game you have 50/50 chance you'll win, Poker is not 50/50 so please don't pair them together
wow - i shuold just leave it there as anyone with a clue will be facepalming.
so your argument is that you can win 50% of games have rake and be a winner?
Can you explain how that is possible without varying the size of your bet?
Varying the size of your bet DOES NOT IMPROVE YOUR EQUITY. Equity is all anyone gives a shit about because thats where the skill is. You make bets with positive expected value you make money overall. You find suckers who think they are better than you (eg you right now) and you start a bet (or a argument on the forum) the loser simply wins looking like an idiot. He then goes on tilt and repeats the same mistake over and over.
Your equity is simply the amount you bet * odds of winning * rake .... (well not quite but simplistically this is the gist)
Seriously insulting people wont help you.
This is not 50:50 either .. you are talking about making bets ... noone makes 50:50 bets ... why would you noone stands to make anything if you repeat it.
Bets are made with odds laid on them ... people disagree about odds thats why they bet.
3 years of gambling and you dont seem to have a grasp of the basics.
Do you want to play some poker? Ill be really nice to you all game.
Oh I understand .. you are going to have negative rake? For every game played the players get 12% to split? That makes everything you say make sense all of a sudden. Im so silly.
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Just out of curiosity, OP, do you think roulette/blackjack/other various casino games that aren't poker can be played profitably? If so, please outline your system. If not, please explain how they are any different than the system you proposed or whatever system this gambling site you use uses. Also, can you please link this site?
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On July 09 2013 02:56 templar rage wrote:
Just out of curiosity, OP, do you think roulette/blackjack/other various casino games that aren't poker can be played profitably? If so, please outline your system. If not, please explain how they are any different than the system you proposed or whatever system this gambling site you use uses. Also, can you please link this site?
you lie i just make $200 in vegas .. you can make money off craps ... (actually i really did!!)
needless to say its a shame as i enjoyed the game and now can never play it again to make money.
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United States996 Posts
On July 09 2013 02:52 MrTortoise wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 02:42 Batiste wrote:On July 09 2013 02:41 MrTortoise wrote:On July 09 2013 02:34 Batiste wrote:On July 09 2013 02:31 MrTortoise wrote:
12% rake?
Rofl thats criminal
So i have a 50% win loss play 8 matches and you have raked a whole match worth of winnings?
you would need about 70% win rate to be a winner which would automatically move you out of the skill bracket you claim to be in.
Broken system is broken. I'll repeat what I said shall I? That's only if you play for the same amount of money in every game... you can still be on profit even if you have a 50% win rate, just depends on how much you play for in each game If you have any rake and you win 50% you have lost by definition because you care about your return on your investment when you repeat that action x number of times You don't understand equity. You don't understand that I 3 years experience in gambling for money on by playing games, you don't so please, shh you really have no clue what you're talking about, also in game you have 50/50 chance you'll win, Poker is not 50/50 so please don't pair them together wow - i shuold just leave it there as anyone with a clue will be facepalming.
agreed with respect to rake
even with OPs unique understanding of math, the larger problem of creating a secure environment to protect the integrity of the players and of the game seems to be near impossible. what if any safeguards are there against me playing on one of any number of my friends accounts who all sort of stink and then having them cash out. are there any safeguards against maphacking? i think if you could run a service that forced players to play on webcams while having to previously submit their ID to your gambling site and having some sort of program to deny the possibility of maphacking (or a clause of play at your own risk) then that would be a good starting place. without that its just going to be the biggest scamming ground of all time.
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On July 09 2013 02:52 illrush wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 02:04 Heyoka wrote:
Your original post was called "gambling on StarCraft" and that's your answer. The legal and social implications of a huge, publicly traded company encouraging their users, many of whom are underage, to gamble on their product for cash are hugely negative. The logistics can never work out in a way where it's worth their effort.
Also 12% rake is pretty laughable. Couldn’t be more accurate. Years ago I worked with a company then called “Neteller” that dealt exclusively with online gambling funds transfers. To make a long story short in 2006 the U.S government started strictly enforcing the ‘federal wire act’ which prohibits the transfer of funds across state lines for the purpose of betting on sport. The idea that Blizzard would segregate their largest market (The US) is outlandish. To go even further they would have to confirm the Identity and age of every single Battle.net client to confirm they’re of age and would be forced to close the accounts of those who aren’t, as already stated that would be a large portion of the online populace. I guess in the end it’s a somewhat interesting idea to talk about, but it’s not even in the realm of being considered or remotely plausible. On a side note does anyone want to bet that someone will figure a way to turn this into a religious debate? Anyone here willing to be a commissioner for a cut off the top!?
If they made a new website for the whole thing they wouldn't have to close accounts, so it won't effect anyone if they didn't want to play for money simple
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On July 09 2013 02:59 Liquid`Zephyr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 02:52 MrTortoise wrote:On July 09 2013 02:42 Batiste wrote:On July 09 2013 02:41 MrTortoise wrote:On July 09 2013 02:34 Batiste wrote:On July 09 2013 02:31 MrTortoise wrote:
12% rake?
Rofl thats criminal
So i have a 50% win loss play 8 matches and you have raked a whole match worth of winnings?
you would need about 70% win rate to be a winner which would automatically move you out of the skill bracket you claim to be in.
Broken system is broken. I'll repeat what I said shall I? That's only if you play for the same amount of money in every game... you can still be on profit even if you have a 50% win rate, just depends on how much you play for in each game If you have any rake and you win 50% you have lost by definition because you care about your return on your investment when you repeat that action x number of times You don't understand equity. You don't understand that I 3 years experience in gambling for money on by playing games, you don't so please, shh you really have no clue what you're talking about, also in game you have 50/50 chance you'll win, Poker is not 50/50 so please don't pair them together wow - i shuold just leave it there as anyone with a clue will be facepalming. agreed with respect to rake even with OPs unique understanding of math, the larger problem of creating a secure environment to protect the integrity of the players and of the game seems to be near impossible. what if any safeguards are there against me playing on one of any number of my friends accounts who all sort of stink and then having them cash out. are there any safeguards against maphacking? i think if you could run a service that forced players to play on webcams while having to previously submit their ID to your gambling site and having some sort of program to deny the possibility of maphacking (or a clause of play at your own risk) then that would be a good starting place. without that its just going to be the biggest scamming ground of all time.
Reminds me of all the attempts at betting on any game.
Then you have match fixing, money laundering ... all these laws being different depending on country. You'd also have to copy passports and credit cards with proof of address.
Its not that it can't work but its more like you need a gigantic angel investor to give you the insane capital and knowledge you need to set it up - at which point you only have a very small share in something that took a crap ton of work to build.
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On July 09 2013 02:59 Liquid`Zephyr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 02:52 MrTortoise wrote:On July 09 2013 02:42 Batiste wrote:On July 09 2013 02:41 MrTortoise wrote:On July 09 2013 02:34 Batiste wrote:On July 09 2013 02:31 MrTortoise wrote:
12% rake?
Rofl thats criminal
So i have a 50% win loss play 8 matches and you have raked a whole match worth of winnings?
you would need about 70% win rate to be a winner which would automatically move you out of the skill bracket you claim to be in.
Broken system is broken. I'll repeat what I said shall I? That's only if you play for the same amount of money in every game... you can still be on profit even if you have a 50% win rate, just depends on how much you play for in each game If you have any rake and you win 50% you have lost by definition because you care about your return on your investment when you repeat that action x number of times You don't understand equity. You don't understand that I 3 years experience in gambling for money on by playing games, you don't so please, shh you really have no clue what you're talking about, also in game you have 50/50 chance you'll win, Poker is not 50/50 so please don't pair them together wow - i shuold just leave it there as anyone with a clue will be facepalming. agreed with respect to rake even with OPs unique understanding of math, the larger problem of creating a secure environment to protect the integrity of the players and of the game seems to be near impossible. what if any safeguards are there against me playing on one of any number of my friends accounts who all sort of stink and then having them cash out. are there any safeguards against maphacking? i think if you could run a service that forced players to play on webcams while having to previously submit their ID to your gambling site and having some sort of program to deny the possibility of maphacking (or a clause of play at your own risk) then that would be a good starting place. without that its just going to be the biggest scamming ground of all time.
And you're completely right and I think you're like the only guy here who's actually putting a an argument who can back up everything they say.. Obviously this playing for cash can not possibly happen until Blizzard sort out how to fix maphacking, I'm just setting an example of what could happen in the future of starcraft and give it a bigger community and helps things like WCS have a bigger prize pool, obviously with Starcraft the flaw will be level system and maphackers, but (hard to say as TL won't let me say the website and show you) The site I use to gamble for money, it had no flaws at all, the site was partnered with the game makers and had it's own separate lobby where it would automatically setup the game for you and invite your opponent then straight after the game finished the result got posted from the game stats onto the site so there was no reporting etc for the players. And the staff was very experienced in dealing with people who may be lying and always said, we require video evidence if they guy you played ''cheated'' but that was before the system got partnered with the game
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I would still very much like a link to this site, OP.
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a bunch of people have already described why this would be incredibly difficult to make work, so i'll just throw in that I, too, would never even consider doing this. just like pretty much everyone else that has commented thus far. so i'm not sure you'd have a huge market even if everything somehow worked out.
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OP: a 12% rake is MASSIVE, there are no ifs ands or buts about that. Its true, you could make money by doubling down to cover your losses (this is a classic martingale progression, and a recipe for disaster btw) but more likely you will just lose money. If you cant win the 62% of your games to break even on a flat bet, upping it wont help you do anything but lose more and faster.
The other issue is that in order to win at 62% you need to be playing against people much worse. In a scenario of evenly matched competitors, only the website wins, since neither player has a big edge and the rake eats up a small edge and then some.
At this point, why would you play a losing game like that instead of just playing FREE on bnet?
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On July 09 2013 03:24 rikter wrote:
OP: a 12% rake is MASSIVE, there are no ifs ands or buts about that. Its true, you could make money by doubling down to cover your losses (this is a classic martingale progression, and a recipe for disaster btw) but more likely you will just lose money. If you cant win the 62% of your games to break even on a flat bet, upping it wont help you do anything but lose more and faster.
The other issue is that in order to win at 62% you need to be playing against people much worse. In a scenario of evenly matched competitors, only the website wins, since neither player has a big edge and the rake eats up a small edge and then some.
At this point, why would you play a losing game like that instead of just playing FREE on bnet?
To make money, just the same reason why people go Casinos, and at Casinos the odds are much worse and this requires skill so odds are better, and you may say to make money you need to play people worse then you but don't the game also has the element of luck and cheese into it, and at low level anyone could beat anyone and just like top level GM... Anyone can take atleast one game off anyone else even if they're an avreagely not as good, but gambling is about taking chances, if people want to be, lets say pussy, then they'll find it harder to find a a game and it will take twice as long for them to make money then others at the same level that take the risk... Just don't forgot I have experience in this so trying to say no that's ins't true... just shh and keep it to yourself
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On July 09 2013 03:36 Batiste wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 03:24 rikter wrote:
OP: a 12% rake is MASSIVE, there are no ifs ands or buts about that. Its true, you could make money by doubling down to cover your losses (this is a classic martingale progression, and a recipe for disaster btw) but more likely you will just lose money. If you cant win the 62% of your games to break even on a flat bet, upping it wont help you do anything but lose more and faster.
The other issue is that in order to win at 62% you need to be playing against people much worse. In a scenario of evenly matched competitors, only the website wins, since neither player has a big edge and the rake eats up a small edge and then some.
At this point, why would you play a losing game like that instead of just playing FREE on bnet? To make money, just the same reason why people go Casinos, and at Casinos the odds are much worse and this requires skill so odds are better, and you may say to make money you need to play people worse then you but don't the game also has the element of luck and cheese into it, and at low level anyone could beat anyone and just like top level GM... Anyone can take atleast one game off anyone else even if they're an avreagely not as good, but gambling is about taking chances, if people want to be, lets say pussy, then they'll find it harder to find a a game and it will take twice as long for them to make money then others at the same level that take the risk... Just don't forgot I have experience in this so trying to say no that's ins't true... just shh and keep it to yourself Why make a thread if you shoo everyone not agreeing away?
Only looking at you math skills imo you're not even worth listening to, so shhhh and keep it to yourself.
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It would make a lot more sense I you just made it diamond or masters and above. Then you wouldn't have scrubs playin in it.
As for hacking it would really screw up the 1v1s so having an ID would be goo and all, but in the end it wouldn't be worth the trouble of going to court with them or banning them cause they could just make a
New account.
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Its not a bad idea. Its just a bad presentation.
I only play sc for funz though. As I see it, pros will shark around to take all the money.
Do you think that hopeless pros like Huk will keep laddering if they can go on your site and take the casual's cash?
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On July 09 2013 02:34 Batiste wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 02:31 MrTortoise wrote:
12% rake?
Rofl thats criminal
So i have a 50% win loss play 8 matches and you have raked a whole match worth of winnings?
you would need about 70% win rate to be a winner which would automatically move you out of the skill bracket you claim to be in.
Broken system is broken. I'll repeat what I said shall I? That's only if you play for the same amount of money in every game... you can still be on profit even if you have a 50% win rate, just depends on how much you play for in each game
So all I need to do is play 5 games at $5 (or whatever the lowest possible bet is) and throw those games. Then every 6th game I play seriously at as high an amount possible? ... sounds good.
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Holy defensive pyramid scheming OP batman!
but really, you're so defensive about this its like you wanted everyone to jump in here and shout "what a wonderful idea OP! Take our monies with your clearly rigged scheme!"
Proven by the bolded "If you have nothing positive to say dont say it" in the OP and many passive-aggressive or downright aggressive posts afterwards.
Dont make a drawn out post about your suggestions unless your willing to discuss them.
Telling people to shut the fuck up because you made $800 on a gambling website playing games (which yeah, no.) and they dont know shit defeats the object of posting in the first place. Want to do it? Go the fuck ahead. Good luck if nobody else agree's and you dont even bother to convince them because at present you're just telling them to stfu.
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This is dumb and you can already do it without official support, it's just it's so laughably exploitable that nobody wants to.
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only adds to the ladder-anxiety situation.
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Old Idea.
Boils down to proper infrastructure to counters hacks, money policies/gambling laws and identifications system for smurfs and such.
It could work but will never be legal thus won't go "mainstream". I could see someone programming an escrow bitcoin system that would make the rake near 0% but even then you need an anonymous part to deal with the $ and a public part to deal with the identifications/cheating problems.
It's an interesting system to think about but I don't see it going nowhere for now, a white paper would be interesting though.
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Wouldn't work online. Too many scumbags and hackers. However, when I lan with friends, and other people who want to come, we have money matches all the time, and its super fun. So for anyone who hasn't tried that, you should. Makes you actually care about the result!
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if blizzard implements this people nobody will play.
people already use sites like d2jsp to bet fg in 1v1s, where the currency is a virtual dollar with indirect real value
also, 12% rake? jesus christ if pokerstars made this kind of money the ceos would have bought hawaii or something already
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If you where just doing this for fun as a player, then I dont see why they would need an organization to do it...
If you where doing it for money, I think you would be better served in buying Somalian government bonds; that would at least give you a small chance at a return on investment...
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On July 09 2013 04:00 DusTerr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 02:34 Batiste wrote:On July 09 2013 02:31 MrTortoise wrote:
12% rake?
Rofl thats criminal
So i have a 50% win loss play 8 matches and you have raked a whole match worth of winnings?
you would need about 70% win rate to be a winner which would automatically move you out of the skill bracket you claim to be in.
Broken system is broken. I'll repeat what I said shall I? That's only if you play for the same amount of money in every game... you can still be on profit even if you have a 50% win rate, just depends on how much you play for in each game So all I need to do is play 5 games at $5 (or whatever the lowest possible bet is) and throw those games. Then every 6th game I play seriously at as high an amount possible? ... sounds good.
This type of bet spreading is a key part of beating casino blackjack (no experience, personal study). I don't think it would work here without a very large bet spread, as in 100:1 or so, at least:
This is what happens if you tank 5 games at $5 and then play a serious one for $500 if you win the serious one %75 of the time:
.75(380) = +$285* reflecting 12% rake on the total pool
.25(-500) = -$125
________________
$160 in expected value,from which you must subtract the fees associated with the games you tank. You have to win 75% of these big games and risk $525+ to make $150 dollars. And some of those big games are going to be against people doing the same thing you are. (Probably most of them) Who do you think is realistically going to play you in SC for $500 a game? Some idiot? Maybe. Probably not though... and just think of the cash you would need to be able to play through the inevitable losses. Even a 75% win rate can have some rough patches, and you realistically need to be putting up that $525 per game because playing any smaller just means those games you tank cost an even bigger percent of your winnings. Once you start dipping below 75% win rate, you have to start dramatically increasing the size of your big bets to make any decent money. Its not a great proposition.
On July 09 2013 03:36 Batiste wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 03:24 rikter wrote:
OP: a 12% rake is MASSIVE, there are no ifs ands or buts about that. Its true, you could make money by doubling down to cover your losses (this is a classic martingale progression, and a recipe for disaster btw) but more likely you will just lose money. If you cant win the 62% of your games to break even on a flat bet, upping it wont help you do anything but lose more and faster.
The other issue is that in order to win at 62% you need to be playing against people much worse. In a scenario of evenly matched competitors, only the website wins, since neither player has a big edge and the rake eats up a small edge and then some.
At this point, why would you play a losing game like that instead of just playing FREE on bnet? To make money, just the same reason why people go Casinos, and at Casinos the odds are much worse and this requires skill so odds are better, and you may say to make money you need to play people worse then you but don't the game also has the element of luck and cheese into it, and at low level anyone could beat anyone and just like top level GM... Anyone can take atleast one game off anyone else even if they're an avreagely not as good, but gambling is about taking chances, if people want to be, lets say pussy, then they'll find it harder to find a a game and it will take twice as long for them to make money then others at the same level that take the risk... Just don't forgot I have experience in this so trying to say no that's ins't true... just shh and keep it to yourself
I explain in my response above a bit about making money in the scenario you describe. FYI: the odds at the casino are much better than the odds on this site. In casino blackjack you grind to overcome a 2% disadvantage. In this website you talk about, you are trying to overcome six times that, and against an active opponent instead of a house dealer playing on a fixed set of rules!
Gambling is one of those things were experience doesn't necessarily mean much if it isnt correctly informed.
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I'm sorry but this sounds like a terrible idea.
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12% rake tells me you didn't really think this through at all, and are only in it for the profits.
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On July 09 2013 04:57 peidongyang wrote:
if blizzard implements this people nobody will play.
They could not because it would be illegal but If they would it sure would be popular. Don't underestimate gambling and the power of money
On July 09 2013 04:57 peidongyang wrote:
people already use sites like d2jsp to bet fg in 1v1s, where the currency is a virtual dollar with indirect real value
It's basically already happening on a smaller scale for 0% rake. I could see ppl betting d3 gold also because they are easier to cash out. The problem is that no one can verify who is playing and who is hacking.
Also please stop talking about the 12% rake, who the hell cares if it's 0.1 or 12% if the basis aren't there.
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On July 09 2013 05:15 scDeluX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:57 peidongyang wrote:
if blizzard implements this people nobody will play. They could not because it would be illegal but If they would it sure would be popular. Don't underestimate gambling and the power of money Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:57 peidongyang wrote:
people already use sites like d2jsp to bet fg in 1v1s, where the currency is a virtual dollar with indirect real value It's basically already happening on a smaller scale for 0% rake. I could see ppl betting d3 gold also because they are easier to cash out. The problem is that no one can verify who is playing and who is hacking.
Its not the gambling I take issue with, its doing it with a 12% rake that really grinds my gears.
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It could be an option if blizzard had a way to eliminate all sorts of cheating.
With the huge amount of cheats in this game,i dont think annyone would dare waging monney on a game.
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I tried this once, it doesn't work.
Biggest Reasons:
It is hard to prevent people from smurfing.
There is generally a lack of interest.
It's hard to stop hackers.
People WILL abuse the customer support system
More specific Reasons why it is hard for a third party:
Money Handling is hard and so is getting people to trust you with it.
PM me for more details.
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We know 12% is stupid but that's not the problem.
I'm only trying to think how could this work even with 0% just for the fun of it. It's a great problem and it's not the first time this thread has poped. I've seen it 3 times at least on TL already.
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On July 09 2013 05:28 red_hq wrote:
I tried this once, it doesn't work.
Biggest Reasons:
It is hard to prevent people from smurfing.
Impossible without having webcam live feed? Only other option I can think of is hotkey analysis
There is generally a lack of interest.
As previously stated, I think it would never be popular if not open-source because it would be illegal
It's hard to stop hackers.
Only solution is live-stream?
People WILL abuse the customer support system
I don't see this as a problem. Human interraction to a minimum everything would need to be clearly define before the playing, open-source software needed.
More specific Reasons why it is hard for a third party:
Money Handling is hard and so is getting people to trust you with it.
Third party would act as an escrow (referee type) and would not handle money directly, I can see something being worked out with bitcoin (or other online currency) which would not be that hard
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If someone came to TL forums and proposed a business plan for the first ever casino in the world what do you think would have happened? He would get flamed and told this would never work. This idea is similar. It is supposed to take advantege of people and, if you ask me, there are lots of people to be taken advantage of, sc2 community included. TL is just not the right place to ask for support or feedback for such an idea. On the other hand how many times have you seen people trash talking and saying they would own you any other game, just not the previous one. Inviting someone to such an arena is a solution. And there are other examples when such a thing could be of use. Smart people will stay away from it because there are too many people who would go at great lengths to scum you for money, but not everyone is smart. Overall the abuse potential is just huge so this would never be fair. One interesting way of developing this idea is to accept that people would try to scum others and you can't stop it. The ammount of people who think they are smarter than others is huge. Lots of them will be attracted by easy money gained from underperforming and devaluating their skill and score (by losing low-bet games if needed). But in the end it will end up with scammers against scammers under bronze league accounts or something. So theoretically this could work, but Blizzard will never allow it.
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On July 09 2013 05:45 Cheerio wrote:
If someone came to TL forums and proposed a business plan for the first ever casino in the world what do you think would have happened? He would get flamed and told this would never work.
Is that a bad thing?
+ Show Spoiler +(I certainly feel this whole thread idea is)
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On July 09 2013 05:45 Cheerio wrote:
If someone came to TL forums and proposed a business plan for the first ever casino in the world what do you think would have happened? He would get flamed and told this would never work. This idea is similar. It is supposed to take advantege of people and, if you ask me, there are lots of people to be taken advantage of, sc2 community included. TL is just not the right place to ask for support or feedback for such an idea. On the other hand how many times have you seen people trash talking and saying they would own you any other game, just not the previous one. Inviting someone to such an arena is a solution. And there are other examples when such a thing could be of use. Smart people will stay away from it because there are too many people who would go at great lengths to scum you for money, but not everyone is smart. Overall the abuse potential is just huge so this would never be fair. One interesting way of developing this idea is to accept that people would try to scum others and you can't stop it. The ammount of people who think they are smarter than others is huge. Lots of them will be attracted by easy money gained from underperforming and devaluating their skill and score (by losing low-bet games if needed). But in the end it will end up with scammers against scammers under bronze league accounts or something. So theoretically this could work, but Blizzard will never allow it.
Point of casinos isn't for people to win, the casinos need to make a profit, that's why there is so much legislation to make sure they don't straight up rip people off. This idea on the other hand is presented as "fun way to play against other people". Yeah, right. Solid business shouldn't be built on screwing over people who can't make the necessary math and definitely should be shunned by TL community if that is the case - see every shitty tournament organizer who doesn't pay out the prize money.
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On July 09 2013 05:44 scDeluX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 05:28 red_hq wrote:
I tried this once, it doesn't work.
Biggest Reasons:
It is hard to prevent people from smurfing.
Impossible without having webcam live feed? Only other option I can think of is hotkey analysis
There is generally a lack of interest.
As previously stated, I think it would never be popular if not open-source because it would be illegal
It's hard to stop hackers.
Only solution is live-stream?
People WILL abuse the customer support system
I don't see this as a problem. Human interraction to a minimum everything would need to be clearly define before the playing, open-source software needed.
More specific Reasons why it is hard for a third party:
Money Handling is hard and so is getting people to trust you with it.
Third party would act as an escrow (referee type) and would not handle money directly, I can see something being worked out with bitcoin (or other online currency) which would not be that hard
The link was me trying this very thing:
EDIT: I Just remembered I'm full of shit: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=177332
EDIT: The Actual Tournament Thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=182313
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Blizzard wouldn't allow you to do this they would sue you for everything you were worth. Also your idea is stupid.
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On July 09 2013 06:13 HeeroFX wrote:
Blizzard wouldn't allow you to do this they would sue you for everything you were worth. Also your idea is stupid.
No they let you, in fact I have gotten permission before too. It's just everyone says they'd be down and then no one signs up...
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On July 09 2013 01:55 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 01:50 HardlyNever wrote:
And yes, people would do that, even for small amounts of money.
sure people would do it, but i personally think those of us who know it's a mathematically losing proposition have a moral responsibility to prevent people from buying into this
I mean... If you're a pro-level player with maphack turned on a barcode account... I'd do it, even with the ridiculous rake you'd still make money.
If you're not that... then this probably isn't for you.
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I find it funny that some of you are thinking that I'm making a site that will do this and want money from it LOL you guys need to read the actual thread instead reading comments, I said Blizzard or a extremely wealthy business should do it.. If only TL would let me tell you the website I'm using as an example, also the facts that you're all saying, the rake is ridiculous and and that no one would ever do this, yet 200,000 people do it and are signed up on the site. I really need an admin to clear the comments of people who just here to troll and haven't read the thread, only 1 person actually gave a good comment on why it's not a good idea... Others, just here ti jump on the bandwagon, I don't know where you got it from that I was going to make a site etc
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On July 09 2013 05:56 Zaphid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 05:45 Cheerio wrote:
If someone came to TL forums and proposed a business plan for the first ever casino in the world what do you think would have happened? He would get flamed and told this would never work. This idea is similar. It is supposed to take advantege of people and, if you ask me, there are lots of people to be taken advantage of, sc2 community included. TL is just not the right place to ask for support or feedback for such an idea. On the other hand how many times have you seen people trash talking and saying they would own you any other game, just not the previous one. Inviting someone to such an arena is a solution. And there are other examples when such a thing could be of use. Smart people will stay away from it because there are too many people who would go at great lengths to scum you for money, but not everyone is smart. Overall the abuse potential is just huge so this would never be fair. One interesting way of developing this idea is to accept that people would try to scum others and you can't stop it. The ammount of people who think they are smarter than others is huge. Lots of them will be attracted by easy money gained from underperforming and devaluating their skill and score (by losing low-bet games if needed). But in the end it will end up with scammers against scammers under bronze league accounts or something. So theoretically this could work, but Blizzard will never allow it. Point of casinos isn't for people to win, the casinos need to make a profit, that's why there is so much legislation to make sure they don't straight up rip people off. This idea on the other hand is presented as "fun way to play against other people". Yeah, right. Solid business shouldn't be built on screwing over people who can't make the necessary math and definitely should be shunned by TL community if that is the case - see every shitty tournament organizer who doesn't pay out the prize money.
I don't really understand your point. The way this idea is presented is irrelevant. It can be presented differently, but the core idea won't change. Which is to create some service that would generate some cashflow and take a percentage of it. Casinos work on a similar method.
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I think to be viable you should completely ignore leagues and rather play for stakes as in Online Poker. Using leagues would only increase lying and cheating it would be best to delete them entirely. In theory the lower level players will play for lower stakes etc. It would still be difficult for average players to profit from this but if you are really good I can see it being good as well as maybe encouraging more activity. However if you look at things like ladder anxiety which supposedly stop many players from playing 1v1 imagine anxiety from losing money.
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if i go google i bet i can find alot of "average player" leagues where theres a small sum of money to win and ofc the fame.
so i dont see this being anywhere good for anyone... also blizzard wouldnt care about it either to be honest.. they have already like oh so many different tournaments going plus they got wow..so they got more money than they can ever spend... so this will just occupy them in a way thats not efficent for them as a company..
but i can only speak for myself,huh?
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How is this thread not closed?
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It just wouldn't work for any league other than high masters or GM, and those players are generally already making some money. Would be SO easy to smurf and make easy money.
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On July 09 2013 06:33 Batiste wrote:
I find it funny that some of you are thinking that I'm making a site that will do this and want money from it LOL you guys need to read the actual thread instead reading comments, I said Blizzard or a extremely wealthy business should do it.. If only TL would let me tell you the website I'm using as an example, also the facts that you're all saying, the rake is ridiculous and and that no one would ever do this, yet 200,000 people do it and are signed up on the site. I really need an admin to clear the comments of people who just here to troll and haven't read the thread, only 1 person actually gave a good comment on why it's not a good idea... Others, just here ti jump on the bandwagon, I don't know where you got it from that I was going to make a site etc
lol even if this site has 200000 members there's no way in hell even 1% of them are betting on their own 1v1 SC2 games.
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People do money matches for street fighter, mostly in between players.
You serving as the intermediator, so cool idea.
On July 09 2013 08:49 IcedBacon wrote:
It just wouldn't work for any league other than high masters or GM, and those players are generally already making some money. Would be SO easy to smurf and make easy money.
You mean like pool sharks
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On July 09 2013 02:17 Batiste wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 01:50 Nirel wrote:
You'd have to be at a 62% winrate just to brake even. It seems like a way to just steal people money to me. You'd get better rates at the casino. Win rate doesn't matter seriously,, If I lost a game for say $50 but won a game for $100, that's 50%Win rate but I'd be $28's up
it definitely does, because you will play more then 2 games. In the long run you will need to have a 62% winrate
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EPT
