EPTDavid Kim comments on Hellbat drops - Page 6
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danbel1005
United States1319 Posts
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Falling
Canada11535 Posts
On June 11 2013 13:21 Rabiator wrote: I have to agree with you there, but that POV of the community is something which Blizzard has trained their SC2 customers to expect ... fast and full of action. The only way is "up" and so they are adding in speed for harrassment units and harrassment carriers like the Medivac, Warp Prism and the Mutalisk. They simply do not understand that this is TOO MUCH and that games will be decided by a coinflip ... or rather by who can scout his enemy first / better and make the harrassment drops to annihilate the opposing economy before it is done to himself. I'm shooting the breeze, but I don't know if the problem is so much too much harassment so much as units that are passively good at harassment rather than units that can be good at harassment if controlled properly. I was never big fan of the idea of a more tanky, slower version of the hellion that sprays splash damage (and can be healed and therefore is even more tanky.) Rather than tightening up hellion attack-retreat micro. | ||
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MCXD
Australia2738 Posts
On June 11 2013 14:01 Falling wrote: I'm shooting the breeze, but I don't know if the problem is so much too much harassment so much as units that are passively good at harassment rather than units that can be good at harassment if controlled properly. I was never big fan of the idea of a more tanky, slower version of the hellion that sprays splash damage (and can be healed and therefore is more tanky.) Rather than tightening up hellion attack-retreat micro. I agree with this post pretty much. | ||
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ajxPurpleRain
United States87 Posts
I know this isn't going to happen I admit the Hellbat could be nerfed, but let's just be careful this doesn't turn into Wings of Liberty again. Facing Hellbat drops as a Zerg has given me nightmares, but has also made me a better player. | ||
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TrollPolice
44 Posts
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Sein
United States1811 Posts
I would like to keep the medivac healing in the game (or make that an upgrade) because Terran could use the hellbat/bio synergy against lategame Protoss deathball. | ||
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sCnInfinity
Germany82 Posts
On June 11 2013 11:03 Vindicare605 wrote: It's the ONLY harassment option Mech has at this point. It should be strong. What's dumb is how strong Helbat drops are as part of bio play especially in the early game. Their late game utility for mech is fine. Not Really. Hellbats may be good with bio in the earlier stages but as the game goes on, its just way too difficult to crush a mech player because Hellbats tank so much damage AND they deal a lot of damage. So it could be a good change to make bio a bit stronger in tvt since the maps don't leave much space to like bypass mechplayers or to surround them. | ||
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Phanekim
United States777 Posts
On June 11 2013 11:48 Chewbacca. wrote: People bitch when they make changes too quickly instead of letting the game evolve, and then people bitch when they let things play out for a bit. Blizzard's chances of ever winning in the eyes of the community --> 0 i like this. i think david kim made right move in waiting right when wcs was over. | ||
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DustbinBieber
France276 Posts
Only Bogus, Flash and MVP get results, all other terrans are worthless competitively :-( | ||
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_Search_
Canada180 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On June 11 2013 13:53 GhostOwl wrote: Except mutalisk harrassment is a costly investment with high risk, high reward, while hellbat drops are low cost ,high reward. Please dont have the -"dont nerf my race bro" attitude..we're trying to make the game for all of us by making it fair and balanced. You KNOW hellbats are a problem when even Terran players are complaining its ruining TvT, which is a red flag saying its even worse for other races. Hellbats are a problem .. that much is clear ... but a big part of the problem is the Medivac speed boost, which makes dropping them ridiculously easy and safe. Buffing static AA - like they did for the "ZvZ Mutalisk problem" - isnt the right answer, because it would make bases too safe against drops. It doesnt matter if Mutalisks are a "costly investment" ... they - the speed and regeneration buffed ones - were turning out to be a big problem in ZvZ and required a "specialised fix". That was a bad solution since it didnt remove the cause of the problem ... so I expect a similarly stupid "solution" for the Hellbat. Lets just hope they DONT add in the Warp Prism speed buff, because it is right along the same line ... ![[image loading]](http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2008/07/speedkills225.jpg) | ||
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Klyberess
Sweden345 Posts
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superpanda27
111 Posts
Since no one really uses the transformation upgrade for the hellbat/hellion why not make them 2 separate units and make the hellbat cost minerals and gas? Like 150 - 50 or something. Marine-Marauder-Medivac doesn't use that much gas as Terrans going bio always seems to have too much gas banked up. | ||
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Sufinsil
United States760 Posts
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Klyberess
Sweden345 Posts
On June 11 2013 14:27 superpanda27 wrote: I think one of the biggest problems with the hellbat drop itself is not only the hellbat, but the actual medivac. To be more specific it's the medivac boost. It allows for fast drops totally bypassing 1-2 shots from base defenses to drop on top of a mineral line. The boost also allows for hellbats to be hotdropped on groups of clumped workers as well. I still think that the medivac boost should at least cost some energy as well. Since no one really uses the transformation upgrade for the hellbat/hellion why not make them 2 separate units and make the hellbat cost minerals and gas? Like 150 - 50 or something. And we'll never see a hellbat again. I see you favour the Blizzard nerf strategy -- nerf anything slightly too strong to the fucking ground. | ||
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superpanda27
111 Posts
On June 11 2013 14:28 Klyberess wrote: And we'll never see a hellbat again. I see you favour the Blizzard nerf strategy -- nerf anything slightly too strong to the fucking ground. And hellbats are too efficient anyways, they have to be toned down anyways. What do you suggest they do to the hellbat? | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On June 11 2013 14:28 Sufinsil wrote: I would like to see a test map with Afterburner costing energy and Hellbats receiving a slower rate of healing from medivacs. That would not stop the early drops ... unless you made it cost 100 energy, at which point it would become pointless. | ||
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hitpoint
United States1511 Posts
On June 11 2013 14:31 Rabiator wrote: That would not stop the early drops ... unless you made it cost 100 energy, at which point it would become pointless. The point isn't to stop them. Making them more of a risk or harder to use is a fine goal. | ||
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GudulesmSC2
102 Posts
Without the boost and given how fast mutas are right now, you would automatically lose all your bio (that stays back to protect the medivacs) or lose all your gas investment in an instant. With that kind of risk, you really don't want to risk an engagement that could turn badly, which might lead to a much more cautious and turtle-y style of play for terrans, which is both boring to watch and to play. I'm not saying that speedvac + hellbats are not a problem, but I think that Blizz should concentrate on nerfing the hellbat and not the medivac. My 2 cents. | ||
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Lukeeze[zR]
Switzerland6838 Posts
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