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On June 11 2013 19:58 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 19:46 TechSc2 wrote:
Ideally i think a SC2 game should last 20 minutes where the first maxout is 20 minutes. in it's current state i think games last on average 15 minutes with a maxout at 13-14 minutes depedning on what race you play. And i hope we have some smart cookies here that understand what i'm saying.
I don't agree with you at all TvP Terran maxes are about 16 minutes, Protoss maxes about 18 minutes, and most games end before TvP reaches the maxed stage TvZ In top level play no-one really maxes until after hive tech, constant Terran bio-mine pushes means both sides lose a lot of units. TvT Hellbats all day. If someone isn't dead already before max, whoever maxes first really depends on who lost less to hellbats. PvZ Zerg maxes pretty early (remember the 11 minute Stephano roach max?) and protoss generally catches up around 18 minutes. Protoss does a lot of 2 base all-in though, and those games don't generally reach the maxed stage, and with 3 base play, Protosses can often die to mutalisks or hydralisks before max. PvP First, you might die straight out to 1 base play. Second, you might die to a push before maxed. Then if both players reach maxed, they don't generally fight immediately upon maxing; there is usually a lot of posturing etc. And certainly not at 13-14 minutes. ZvZ ZvZ ends early a lot, either you die at the ling/bane hatch tech, or you die to or fail a roach push, or you die to mutalisks, or you get cheesed in some other way. There is a tendency for players to go roach hydra now, but it's certainly not a 13-14 minute maxed game. In conclusion I have no idea what you are talking about, what you are saying does not match with the current metagame.
You forgot swarm hosts in PvZ! Anyway, totally agreed in TvT!!!
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On June 11 2013 10:52 SoOJuuu wrote:
took them long enough to figuire it out.
sigh
better late then never.
Better late than insta-knee jerk nerf.
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I for one hope they experiment with the medivac boost ability since it will probably be the least invasive balance design . An interesting mechanic would be something like a fully loaded medivac that uses its boost only gains half the effect.
Though its probably not the most elegant solution.
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I really don´t understand why some of you want to remove the Bio tag from the hellbat? I don´t see any problems with healing a hellbat...
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On June 11 2013 18:55 Draconicfire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 18:51 Proseat wrote:
Two-pronged approach:
1. Medivac booster activation costs a certain amount of energy (similar to Oracle). Retain cooldown.
2. Hellbats require blueflame upgrade to reach full damage potential. Slight damage nerf.
I actually really like this idea. Especially the medivac change. It makes it so that there's a tradeoff between boosting and healing. If you boost to get to places faster, theres less healing. So it makes the player decide on speed or vitality.
The 2 problems I see right now.
Hellbats+medivac are too tanky relative to how many units you need to stop it before critical damage is attained(mostly early game problem). Rolling the damage in with blue flame could be one option. It'd reduce the number of hellbats you can make early on(techlab+research time), and delay higher damage timings by a small amount
Afterburners - strength of the skill doesn't match the cost. 25 energy cost is pretty reasonable. If you pick a medivac with mid-high energy(say around 100), that gives 50 energy for healing while retaining enough to boost in and boost out. The biggest effect would be to reduce the efficacy of brute forcing drops until they work(medivac boost lets them escape pretty much any bad situation, and it only takes one crack in defenses to take critical damage from a hellbat drop).
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On June 11 2013 19:32 Dvriel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 18:59 Sapphire.lux wrote:On June 11 2013 18:55 Dvriel wrote:On June 11 2013 18:49 Sapphire.lux wrote:
How about an upgrade requirement for medivac boost instead? Sure. Then how about an upgrade requirement for the Photon Vercharge and the Mutalisk speed??? If Hellbat drops are problematic (don't know if they are) then something has got to give, and i don't want factory units to get nerfed while mech is still so rare. They are ONLY in TvT, because are dominatig the MU.
They are definitely problematic in TvT, not so much other MU i agree.
Mech is not rare, dont know why are you saying this.It Works pretty well in all MUs
Outside of TvT this is not my experience at all, and i'm actually "hunting" for mech games in all the big tournaments. It's bio 99% in TvZ and almost 100% TvP, with Strelok and a couple of other games making the exceptions. Mech is very rare at the top level.
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Theres no rush Kim, the game hasnt been balanced for 2+ years, theres no problem in waiting
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The second they get nerfed though, i shall be worried for terran. Really hellbats are keeping terran alive vs P. Without them P is going to be crushing terran. terribly.
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Looks like I'm back to working on my rax-ebay-6 turret build for now
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Hopefully they make some changes. TvT is becoming incredibly unexciting to watch.
I would also like to see them no longer being able to be healed by Medivacs, but I think that's just wishful thinking on my part.
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On June 11 2013 20:58 xtyxtbx wrote:
The second they get nerfed though, i shall be worried for terran. Really hellbats are keeping terran alive vs P. Without them P is going to be crushing terran. terribly.
Hellbats is definitely valuable vs chargelots, but this is a late-game scenario. Blue flame should be researched at this stage.
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On June 11 2013 20:44 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 19:32 Dvriel wrote:On June 11 2013 18:59 Sapphire.lux wrote:On June 11 2013 18:55 Dvriel wrote:On June 11 2013 18:49 Sapphire.lux wrote:
How about an upgrade requirement for medivac boost instead? Sure. Then how about an upgrade requirement for the Photon Vercharge and the Mutalisk speed??? If Hellbat drops are problematic (don't know if they are) then something has got to give, and i don't want factory units to get nerfed while mech is still so rare. They are ONLY in TvT, because are dominatig the MU. They are definitely problematic in TvT, not so much other MU i agree. Show nested quote +Mech is not rare, dont know why are you saying this.It Works pretty well in all MUs Outside of TvT this is not my experience at all, and i'm actually "hunting" for mech games in all the big tournaments. It's bio 99% in TvZ and almost 100% TvP, with Strelok and a couple of other games making the exceptions. Mech is very rare at the top level.
TvZ mech play, you should look at Mvp's play. He admits that it probably isn't as good as bio, but there is much to be explored.
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I'd love to see some blueflame hellbats.
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On June 11 2013 10:57 FeyFey wrote:
too easy to execute hehehe, interesting conclusion wonder what they based this upon. Especially when most people fail defending and doing hellbat drops at the same time.
Meaning that hellbat dropper has easier time controlling the drop and making sure he get maximum value out of it than the defender can prevent from taking damage. If they fail in defending just mean that they have worse multitasking and/or control than their opponent.
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On June 11 2013 20:53 alphaproxy wrote:
Theres no rush Kim, the game hasnt been balanced for 2+ years, theres no problem in waiting
Any evidence(s) for that?
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On June 11 2013 21:03 KingdoM123 wrote:
I'd love to see some blueflame hellbats.
You could have blueflame hellbats in HoTS beta. 
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And we shall continue to make them even worse design wise. It's already a mech unit that becomes biological, can be healed but not stimmed/put in bunkers and depending on it's mode it takes up a different amount of cargo space, plus magically loosing blueflame in hellbat form. Let's see how much more they are willing to fuck it up before realising that allowing the hellion to become an aoe marauder was a bad idea to begin with.
Ah well maybe they'll over nerf it like they over buffed spores...
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On June 11 2013 21:03 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 20:44 Sapphire.lux wrote:On June 11 2013 19:32 Dvriel wrote:On June 11 2013 18:59 Sapphire.lux wrote:On June 11 2013 18:55 Dvriel wrote:On June 11 2013 18:49 Sapphire.lux wrote:
How about an upgrade requirement for medivac boost instead? Sure. Then how about an upgrade requirement for the Photon Vercharge and the Mutalisk speed??? If Hellbat drops are problematic (don't know if they are) then something has got to give, and i don't want factory units to get nerfed while mech is still so rare. They are ONLY in TvT, because are dominatig the MU. They are definitely problematic in TvT, not so much other MU i agree. Mech is not rare, dont know why are you saying this.It Works pretty well in all MUs Outside of TvT this is not my experience at all, and i'm actually "hunting" for mech games in all the big tournaments. It's bio 99% in TvZ and almost 100% TvP, with Strelok and a couple of other games making the exceptions. Mech is very rare at the top level. TvZ mech play, you should look at Mvp's play. He admits that it probably isn't as good as bio, but there is much to be explored.
Oh i know, i love MVP
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Thank. God.
They haunted my platinum level dream.
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User was warned for this post
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EPT
