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TAMinator
Australia2706 Posts
Nerfs I would recommend is either decreasing its damage to light, or making hellbats cost gas aswell (e.g. 25 gas). Healing is not the problem, its just the outright damage it can do as it drops, and how quickly it comes. For you to successfully defend it with very little casualties you'd need to invest way more into defense then the hellbat player. This goes for all races. | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
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intense555
United States474 Posts
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On June 10 2013 10:55 Pursuit_ wrote: Removing the biological tag from Hellbats is the only change I think is needed. And I think it was stupid to add the tag in the first place. Have they ever explained how or why hellbats got the biological tag in the first place? Is there a logical or balance related reason of any kind? | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
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doktorLucifer
United States855 Posts
On June 10 2013 01:51 Dvriel wrote: LOL. A bunch of Terrans like me DO CARE about TvT. The problema IS the Hellbat. If the Hellbat lands your mineral line go to hell even If the Medivac die.Its the same situation as it once was with the BFHellions.Its just too much damage and its not the unique moment of SC2 history: Does anyone remember the PvP when it was 4gate ONLY??? Who does care about PvP? Well, lot of us. It was disgusting to watch as it was the Final today. Watching the best Terrans in the world beating themselves with hellbat drops...so lame. TvT is a good tactical positioning match.Well, it was BEFORE this Hellbat joke. They need nerf of the damage for sure and not be healed by medivacs.This will make them ALMOST equal as the BFH but they come faster and are cheaper... We need the change!!!! Please David Kim, come here and see this. You said in SOTG(INcontrol: "are happy with Hellabts?" DK:"yes,..." INcontrol: "WHAT?") that the problema is the medivac,but I think you were pretty wrong and today Mvp and INnovation show it to all the world. Yes. Even with imba hellbats, TvT is still MOSTLY a fun matchup. I had a game the other day where a Diamond protoss trying out terran just dropped hellbats nonstop. I had 1 turret per mineral line and 1 bunk each, and I was babysitting a group of marines trying to spot drops, all while spamming my camera hotkeys to make sure there weren't hellbats killing my full-time laborers. I won, but only after holding off no less than 12 back to back hellbat drops before finally pushing out at 15 minutes. Uugh. So painful to play against. And he didn't even really know how to play Terran | ||
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On June 10 2013 01:34 Gladiator6 wrote: I think they should make it a little bit more expensive than it is now, maybe let it cost 125 minerals? It's quite hard to deal with in late game PvT also when it's included in compositions because of how cheap it is. if you increase the cost of hellbat, you also have to increase the cost of hellions else you would just build hellions and purchase the upgrade to change to hellbats, thus costing you 100 minerals again. I don't think changing the cost is a good way to go about balacing them, if they even need a balance... really players just need time, nearly everything "OP" turns out not to be given enough time for other players to figure out how to deal with it | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5218 Posts
On June 10 2013 11:02 TheRabidDeer wrote: Have they ever explained how or why hellbats got the biological tag in the first place? Is there a logical or balance related reason of any kind? Medivac energy would useless for Mech players if they couldn't heal something. I suggested in the HOTS beta to remove the healing aspect and call them Drop Ships (and also remove the gas cost), and add Medics into the game. This happened instead. | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On June 10 2013 11:16 BronzeKnee wrote: Medivac energy would useless for Mech players if they couldn't heal something. I suggested in the HOTS beta to remove the healing aspect and call them Drop Ships (and also remove the gas cost), and add Medics into the game. This happened instead. That doesnt make sense because drop play would still be useful even without the ability to heal mech. People dropped hellions in WoL... | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 10 2013 11:20 TheRabidDeer wrote: That doesnt make sense because drop play would still be useful even without the ability to heal mech. People dropped hellions in WoL... Its true, but it does put a clock on how useful medivacs are when factory units are in play. With the seperate upgrades as well, there is a point with factory based units that building medivacs would not make sense(paying for an ability you are not using). Its really no that big of a deal. SCVs and marauders are healed by medivacs and they are mostly just huge robots. Hell, SCVs can be repaired and healed at the same time. | ||
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
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A3mercury
United States26 Posts
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Kim Hyuna
Korea (South)264 Posts
What? With medivac, they don't die. | ||
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Rainling
United States456 Posts
Edit: I think the bio tag on hellbats should be removed, everyone agrees it doesn't really make sense and this contributes to hellbat drops being very strong. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
On June 10 2013 11:38 Plansix wrote: Its true, but it does put a clock on how useful medivacs are when factory units are in play. With the seperate upgrades as well, there is a point with factory based units that building medivacs would not make sense(paying for an ability you are not using). Its really no that big of a deal. SCVs and marauders are healed by medivacs and they are mostly just huge robots. Hell, SCVs can be repaired and healed at the same time. It IS a big deal....the units are not distanced enough for there to be a logical, justifiable explanation for the hellbat's bio-tag and the hellion's mechanical tag. The unit should be internally consistent. The hellbat is akin to the hellion in the same way that a sieged tank is a transformation of an unsieged tank. The fact that the hellbat somehow gains a bio-tag does not justifiably make sense. And I don't understand how not being able to use medevac energy has any influence on medevac use with mech. It acts as terrain-passable transportation. That in itself will always be invaluable. Coupled with the fact that it land and ship upgrades are merged, now...Hellions in WoL were effective all game long. There is never not a reason to harass an opponent's mineral lines with hellbats/hellions. The argument of deteriorating use holds the least weight with mech, of all compositions. Mech is a gas based composition. A drop of hellions or hellbats costs 100 gas. A terran player can AFFORD to throw away mineral only units all game long in order to cause substantial economic damage. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11075 Posts
On June 10 2013 11:05 tomatriedes wrote: It's funny how Blizzard nerfed blue flame hellions because they were too good at killing workers and then made another unit that does exactly the same thing. They made the warhound. This isn't exactly rocket science design going on in Irvine. | ||
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ilikeredheads
Canada1995 Posts
How about make Hellbats require the Transformation upgrade? Maybe this will help prevent Terran from getting super fast Hellbats. This will force Terran players to put a tech lab on factory early AND the transformation upgrade won't be so useless like neosteel frame. | ||
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Bswhunter
Australia954 Posts
On June 10 2013 09:52 btwr wrote: I'm thinking decreasing hellbat movement speed on the PTR could yield some really interesting results Also, it means that transforming them in and out of combat is a factor. I think making them really slow, but increasing transformation time would be intresting | ||
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gobbledydook
Australia2605 Posts
On June 10 2013 12:15 ilikeredheads wrote: I think their damage (either base or against light) should be reduced a bit. TTheir damage is kinda high for a unit that doesnt cost gas. How about make Hellbats require the Transformation upgrade? Maybe this will help prevent Terran from getting super fast Hellbats. This will force Terran players to put a tech lab on factory early AND the transformation upgrade won't be so useless like neosteel frame. That was how it was once upon a time in the beta, and then no-one used hellbats because it wasn't worth the time getting the upgrade. (by the time you have armory and tech lab, you'd be getting drilling claws instead) | ||
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Serpico
4285 Posts
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