EPTHellbats Review - Page 17
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Nikoras
United States115 Posts
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DuaneDibly
Australia30 Posts
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FaCE_1
Canada6172 Posts
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forumtext
575 Posts
ref http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=416247 | ||
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Leragie
United States8 Posts
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
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Xorphene
United Kingdom492 Posts
1. Hellbat + Medivac drop - boosters negate static defence, and Hellbat splash does a lot of damage 2. With healing, Hellbats tank far too cost effectively for a mineral only unit. Therefore: the Medivac is the problem (in all 3 matchups) rather than the Hellbat directly - the synergy is just far too strong. The other problem with the speedboost is the retention of medivacs into late game is far higher than it was in WoL, this makes bio based strategies significantly stronger in the mid to late game. Also means with Hellbats being minerals only, Terran can drop the Hellbats, sac them to save the medivac and be ahead through (a) retaining the Medivac, (b) Worker kills, (c) Lost mining time through worker pull. Ergo, it's just *too* efficient. | ||
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MichaelDonovan
United States1453 Posts
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Kvz
United States463 Posts
Hellbats and to a lesser degree hellions are supposed to be: 1. Vultures: a mineral dump for a mech army with high speed and harassment capabilities. They have upgrades for speed and to plant spidermines etc. This was really interesting and led to innovative plays. 2. Firebat: infantry unit used straight line aoe. This unit was slow (without stim) and was able to effectively counter light units such as zerglings. Oh the firebat also cost gas. The real issue here is that hellions and hellbats come into the game way too fast. Because they are mineral only, this leaves the terran an avenue to tech straight to medivacs (consolidated medic and dropship, which imo was not a good idea) and start harass. In my opinion hellions should cost 25 gas much like firebats did. This would solve a lot of issues. | ||
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ObeseHydra
Brazil196 Posts
-Make it costs gas; -Make the damage output be that high only if blue flame is researched, -Transformation Servos as a requirement to produce Hellbats; | ||
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Alacast
United States205 Posts
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ETisME
12413 Posts
Medivac boost makes hellbat drop comes way too early, pick up and reposition the drop becomes too easy compared to the defending side, the static defense needed to defend early hellbat drop is really high while hellbat drop is by no means an all in type of early aggression. Personally I think if the medivac boost is slower or there is a longer cool down or shorter duration, then hellbat drop would be ok. | ||
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Phoenix2003
126 Posts
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Ucs
264 Posts
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ScythedBlade
308 Posts
You'll need to give a viable weakness to the hellbats for both Protoss and Terrans. Or you could reduce the damage and make blue flamed upgrades actually help deal extra damage. | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On June 10 2013 09:14 Kvz wrote: The problem with hellbats and with hellions is that they are built to fulfill the role that two different units fulfilled in BW. This is a huge design flaw in sc2 in my opinion. Hellbats and to a lesser degree hellions are supposed to be: 1. Vultures: a mineral dump for a mech army with high speed and harassment capabilities. They have upgrades for speed and to plant spidermines etc. This was really interesting and led to innovative plays. 2. Firebat: infantry unit used straight line aoe. This unit was slow (without stim) and was able to effectively counter light units such as zerglings. Oh the firebat also cost gas. The real issue here is that hellions and hellbats come into the game way too fast. Because they are mineral only, this leaves the terran an avenue to tech straight to medivacs (consolidated medic and dropship, which imo was not a good idea) and start harass. In my opinion hellions should cost 25 gas much like firebats did. This would solve a lot of issues. lol cmon now. this is just stupid. regular hellions have had their place in the game for years now, there's no need to change the cost to both units when we're capable of making cleaner changes that address the early game directly. hellbats i really don't like a gas change just because it's going to make the whole transformation relationship really weird, but i'd be kind of open to it. | ||
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EFermi
United States165 Posts
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CeliosB
Canada100 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On June 10 2013 08:54 forumtext wrote: I don't think it's a problem since there are much more Protoss than Terrans in PL. ref http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=416247 This is an unrelated issue. When a player has time to prepare for a best of 1, Protoss shines because of the variety of timing attacks Protoss can do and engineer. This is due in part to the fact that they have the only macro mechanic which can speed a long units or tech, and not just help them bring in more income. | ||
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btwr
20 Posts
Would increase viability of hydralisks being used as anti-air Even though siege tanks are the main unit to help against hydralisk, hellbats are certainly used mid-engagement. With this change hydras could be used as defense, but able to move out of the army in engagements until tanks are taken out. Zerg has recently been a little forced into a bane/ultra running around the base to defend drops, with a little muta help. Considering hydras have fantastic DPS to air and the more viable +1 range upgrade they could be used in small numbers for base defense- especially killing the medivac before it can drop on them Would decrease hellbat's viability in drops on the mineral line When hellbat drops still occur in this change, they would require much more micro by the terran player player (and very visible micro as well- fun to watch). To keep the hellbats from being killed before they can actually engage after workers are pulled (due to the low speed), terrans would have to pick them up and drop them on the enemy again. The defender would most likely spread their units away from the hellbat's AoE so the terran would have to pick them up numerous times to keep the engagement happening. Would keep hellbats viable against chargelots: The need for chargelots has been keeping protoss on gateway tech, and also keeping terran away from mech in TvP. It could be very interesting to see what happens when people experiment with new tech trees in that matchup Thoughts? | ||
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