EPTHellbats Review - Page 16
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sparklyresidue
United States5523 Posts
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
On June 10 2013 05:34 dnld12 wrote: In PvT i have learned my lesson. When faced with Hell bat drops. 3 cannons in hte mineral line before i even attempt to move out because of these drops. Yep. That's fine. Do you think terrans get a planetary fortress for fun or what? I hellbat dropped a platinum zerg and his direct response was a spore and one (yes, one) spine crawler. That was enough to completely decimate my drop. I did bits of damage, maybe one or two drones but certainly nowhere near as much as an 8 marine drop. A single bunker with 4 marines or a turret + whatever units you have handy is enough to kill off any hellbat drop you would care to do. If they are that intent on mass hellbat drops then just overwhelm them with stalkers/roaches/whatever. People need to stop playing so damn greedy. What's more, it's not like hellbats and medivacs are free. You kill a medivac with a pair of hellbats, that's 300/100 gone right there. Kill two, that's 600/200. I think that's worth a spore and a spine, don't you? | ||
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Ripeace
34 Posts
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
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Msr
Korea (South)495 Posts
On June 10 2013 08:02 Evangelist wrote: Yep. That's fine. Do you think terrans get a planetary fortress for fun or what? I hellbat dropped a platinum zerg and his direct response was a spore and one (yes, one) spine crawler. That was enough to completely decimate my drop. I did bits of damage, maybe one or two drones but certainly nowhere near as much as an 8 marine drop. A single bunker with 4 marines or a turret + whatever units you have handy is enough to kill off any hellbat drop you would care to do. If they are that intent on mass hellbat drops then just overwhelm them with stalkers/roaches/whatever. People need to stop playing so damn greedy. What's more, it's not like hellbats and medivacs are free. You kill a medivac with a pair of hellbats, that's 300/100 gone right there. Kill two, that's 600/200. I think that's worth a spore and a spine, don't you? your in platinum.... I made a na account and 6 drone rushed and won the first 14 games... At that skill level balance does not really matter. The point is the hellbat is too cost efficient. For 100 minerals they are too good. Skilled players can drop them and then out macro their opponent. Even if you kill 0 workers, they either lost mining time or lost mining time+ invested in static d. With medivac boost it is easy to look away for a second and lose workers. Not to mention they have do well vs units that are supposed to counter them. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
I do think it is pretty silly from a lore perspective for Medivacs being able to heal hellbats. From a gameplay perspective, it would hurt more in TvZ than in any other MU because they would lose some effectiveness against lings. | ||
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sibs
635 Posts
On June 10 2013 07:51 sparklyresidue wrote: Watching the WCS games this weekend between the creme de la creme in attendance, it still seems like players are getting a hang on dealing with hellbats. I think given a few more months, they will be insanely good, but only if unscouted or something like that. I think they can only continue their reign of terror for so long before people get pretty decent at dealing with them, assuming they know they're coming. I think it's exactly the opposite. It's more down to terran learning how to implement hellbats on their strategy than people learning how to fight it, see hellbat drops, just the worker mineral pull is already 100-120 mineral damage, you add up occasional worker kills, force of static defense you come to the conclusion why the hell not drop them? The unit is just so good if you can force engagements with other mineral units, maybe if zealots and zerglings had higher range, but they don't so adding 0/0 hellbats to whatever comp always seems worthwhile, I don't think it's possible to micro around it either. | ||
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GhostOwl
766 Posts
On June 10 2013 01:54 Hypemeup wrote: Changing the hellbat without fucking it up for other MUs(TvZ and TvP) where they are fine is a very tricky thing indeed. Except hellbat is a problem in other MU as well....so yes, hellbat does need to be looked at. Way too cost efficient for what it is | ||
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takingbackoj
United States684 Posts
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On June 10 2013 08:17 GhostOwl wrote: Except hellbat is a problem in other MU as well....so yes, hellbat does need to be looked at. Way too cost efficient for what it is How is it a problem in other MU's? Terrans are doing very poorly against Z and P. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
Just nerf medivacs, they're the issue, | ||
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GhostOwl
766 Posts
On June 10 2013 08:02 Evangelist wrote: Yep. That's fine. Do you think terrans get a planetary fortress for fun or what? I hellbat dropped a platinum zerg and his direct response was a spore and one (yes, one) spine crawler. That was enough to completely decimate my drop. I did bits of damage, maybe one or two drones but certainly nowhere near as much as an 8 marine drop. A single bunker with 4 marines or a turret + whatever units you have handy is enough to kill off any hellbat drop you would care to do. If they are that intent on mass hellbat drops then just overwhelm them with stalkers/roaches/whatever. People need to stop playing so damn greedy. What's more, it's not like hellbats and medivacs are free. You kill a medivac with a pair of hellbats, that's 300/100 gone right there. Kill two, that's 600/200. I think that's worth a spore and a spine, don't you? Well medivacs are used in main army regardless since they're also healers so u gotta take that out of equation. And you should only factor in 1 drop units, meaning only 2 hellbats (enough to decimate mineral line) so thats only 200 mineral cost. So its 200 minerals vs cost of spine+crawler+2 drones used to build them. Now we can see what all the fuss is about | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
Just watch Bogus vs sOs, defending those drops (perfectly) cost a lot to sOs, and Bogus got his 3rd very fast and safe while taking a big suply leads (20-30 suply). Hellbats are borderline op in PvT too. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On June 10 2013 08:21 GhostOwl wrote: Well medivacs are used in main army regardless since they're also healers so u gotta take that out of equation. And you should only factor in 1 drop units, meaning only 2 hellbats (enough to decimate mineral line) so thats only 200 mineral cost. So its 200 minerals vs cost of spine+crawler+2 drones used to build them. Now we can see what all the fuss is about That must be why Zergs are doing horribly as of late... | ||
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.aquila
United States68 Posts
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ragingfungus
United States271 Posts
On June 10 2013 08:19 Wegandi wrote: How is it a problem in other MU's? Terrans are doing very poorly against Z and P. Not that I agree with this statement at all, but it's largely irrelevant. You can have below 50% winrate and still have broken units. If TvX was terran dominating early and X dominating late, but the matchup was 50% all across the board I wouldn't call that balanced. If what you say were true then I believe hellbats still need something done to them and perhaps buff T some other way. | ||
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Petrone
Sweden47 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On June 10 2013 08:26 Belha wrote: Is not only TvT. Just watch Bogus vs sOs, defending those drops (perfectly) cost a lot to sOs, and Bogus got his 3rd very fast and safe while taking a big suply leads (20-30 suply). Hellbats are borderline op in PvT too. Two Cannons = a lot? Terran taking his third before Protoss and being up in supply is nothing new. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8240 Posts
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On June 10 2013 08:41 TheDwf wrote: Two Cannons = a lot? Terran taking his third before Protoss and being up in supply is nothing new. Faster third isn't a big deal, but being up 30 supply definitely is, unless the Protoss is going for a Liquid Hero type build. | ||
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