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Welcome this month's edition of the top 50 streamers list. 
This month I've been focusing a bit more on WCS numbers than player streams, since last month saw the first full month of WCS KR, EU and NA action. There's also a poll at the end of the post about it, so do feel free to participate! Player stream numbers are still there for your viewing pleasure though, of course.
Table of contents
Huh? What's this?
For those of you who don't already know what this is about: I'm gathering various data from all the streams that are presented on teamliquid.net (viewers, game, events, etc.) and use that data to produce the pretty tables you see below. The tables only contain SC2 players (that is, people streaming games of Starcraft 2 being played by the streamer themselves) and not casters, teams or other streams. The tables also only contain Starcraft 2 related activities. So CatZ streaming Dota2 will not be taken into account, for instance.
The list
Due to space limitations, I have to shorten the headers and leave some data out of the tables presented here. You can get the full tables from the links below.
The headers aren't as clear as I'd like them to be thanks to this, so here's a quick explanation, just in case: "Viewers" denotes the average viewers in the given month. "Hours" are the hours played. "Place diff" and "Viewer diff" are the place and viewer differences compared to last month.
Also, the HTML version linked beneath the images has some more information that I had to leave out due to space limitation, most notably the featured status of the players.
Now, Without further ado, here's this month's tables:
Stray observations
- It looked pretty close at times, but Stephano ended up being #1. Again. He lost a good amount of viewers in the last month, but his biggest rival, Grubby, lost even more. Neither player streamed particularly much last month, however, so their average viewer numbers are much more volatile, compared to, for instance..
- DeMusliM! Over 100 hours streamed last month, and still #2 in average viewers. That's pretty impressive, and it got him an easy #1 spot in the other list over his former teammate Idra.
- And while we're at it, yes, that peak of almost 14k viewers for Idra happened shortly after he was let go from EG. And as you can see, his overall numbers aren't bad at all, either.
- Jaedong's numbers have finally stopped their free fall. The legend gained over 600 viewers compared to the previous month.
- With Jim and MacSed, we have two Chinese players who made it into the list! It's quite likely that the Chinese success in WCS NA put them into the spotlight, and deservedly so. These guys are good!
- Here's some information on some of the lesser known names in the lists:
 Hui:Hui is a Taiwanese player who is mostly playing in the TeSL. His fanbase seems to be found mostly outside of teamliquid and in the Taiwanese community, unsurprisingly.
- Tara Babcock: She's an, ahem, model. Google her.
 KingCobra: He's a Russian streamer, mostly playing daily and weekly cups.
- Filter: Filter is mostly known for creating awesome tutorials. Check out his thread, Bronze to Masters, Improving Mechanics! He's also associated with Quantic Gaming, though not as a player.
- Currently, I have no way of getting MC's stream numbers, since he is streaming from azubu.tv. He's not listed on teamliquid (see the other thread), and there does not seem to be an API for azubu.tv either, so it's currently not possible to get live viewer data from them. There are other SC2 streamers on azubu.tv that I am missing, too, but those would most likely not have made it into the list.
- Notable absentees this month: Polt, Nerchio, Maru, NonY. Oh, and Destiny. Seems like he's back to playing these pesky MOBA games.
- If you find any mistakes or errors in the lists, please do let me know, especially concerning team changes or players that you are absolutely sure should be on the lists, but are not.
The big picture
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8028950/TL/Monthly%20viewers%202013%2005.png) (The actual numbers are not important, it's the ratio between month that's important.)
We're back to pre HotS numbers, at least when it comes to player streams. That's not good for players who stream, obviously, but I don't see any cause for concern for the community's growth.
As I said last month, there are two factors that would inevitably lead to lower player stream numbers: First, the HotS hype, like any other hype, would die down again. And, more importantly, there is WCS. And forgive me my French, but there is a shitton of WCS content out there. Some days, we could watch 10 hours or more of WCS content every day. And that's just insane, and inevitably some of those WCS viewers will be former player stream viewers. WCS streams and player streams are competing for the same audience, after all.
Speaking of which..
WCS
The usual caveat applies: The GSL numbers taken below are solely those from twitch.tv, and do not include people viewing from gomtv.net or numbers from the Korean streams.
Another thing to note is that WCS EU has multiple streams for different languages. I decided to add them all up, since it is unlikely that there are that many people who watched different language streams concurrently. Still, it's entirely possible, and the WCS EU numbers are most likely a bit inflated due to this.
Do you see how many bars that are in that barchart? We could watch some WCS content for almost every single day of the month last month. It's absolutely crazy. That's good and bad.
First of all, the good: We used to go bonkers when WCS EU in 2012 had over 100.000 concurrent viewers at one point. The WCS EU finals in this year easily beat that number, and with all the different language streams combined, had an 80.000 viewers average! I dare say that WCS EU season 1 has been a big success.
WCS KR did not quite get as many viewers, but the time zone difference alone could explain that. 40.000 viewers on average for the finals is still quite impressive. Also noteworthy are the almost 40.000 viewers on average for the Group of Death in the Round of 16.
WCS AM has been struggling a bit, however. The finals had about half the viewers of WCS EU, and here we cannot use the time zone difference as an excuse. Or are there really so many more European Starcraft fans out there compared to American Starcraft fans? WCS AM has done consistently worse than WCS EU. What do you guys think is the reason for that? I'm especially interested in comments readers from the US/Americas on whether they watch WCS AM, or if they even prefer WCS EU over it. I've also added a poll to gauge the popularity of the various WCS regions to the bottom of the post. Do participate!
Now, the not necessarily good: WCS has been dominating the entire month, both in terms of viewers and in terms of pure content output. Just look at that list, and you'll quickly understand why non-WCS tournament organizers have been complaining about the dominance of WCS. There's practically no room for a regular format like NASL to take place anywhere in there, and a tournament final like Shoutcraft US had to be squeezed between a WCS EU and a WCS NA cast.
So instead of various tournaments from various organizers happening throughout the month, we pretty much have WCS all the way. Is that good? Is that going to help form a coherent storyline, like Blizzard likes to say, or is that going to hurt esports in the long run by stifling or outright killing medium sized tournaments? We can't deny that the WCS numbers themselves have been pretty damn good, but that's not all that matters. We will see how it'll turn out. Personally, I'm looking forward to the coming non-WCS tournaments, especially MLG and Dreamhack. Let's see how they'll do in the new environment.
Proleague vs. GSTL
As above, take these numbers with a grain of salt:- Both Proleague and GSTL numbers are only taken from twitch.tv.
- Proleague also has a Korean stream, as well as a TV audience. Neither is taken into account here.
- As already mentioned, GSTL viewers watching from gomtv.net are not taken into account.
- In addition, the link to the current GSTL stream on teamliquid.net more often than not leads right to gomtv.net, and not to twitch.tv. When that happens, the numbers don't even take viewers from teamliquid.net into account. That would explain some of the numbers below.
Compared to WCS, the Proleague and GSTL numbers have barely changed, and are far below what we have seen from WCS. Team tournaments may be the big thing for Koreans, but outside of Korea, people definitely prefer individual tournaments.
WCS Poll
Poll: Which WCS do you follow/watch?I watch WCS KR and WCS EU (464) 37% I watch all three (KR/EU/NA) (446) 35% I only watch WCS EU (124) 10% I only watch WCS KR (112) 9% I watch WCS EU and WCS NA (88) 7% I watch WCS KR and WCS NA (23) 2% I only watch WCS NA (10) 1% 1267 total votes Your vote: Which WCS do you follow/watch? (Vote): I only watch WCS KR
(Vote): I only watch WCS EU
(Vote): I only watch WCS NA
(Vote): I watch all three (KR/EU/NA)
(Vote): I watch WCS KR and WCS EU
(Vote): I watch WCS KR and WCS NA
(Vote): I watch WCS EU and WCS NA
So that's all for this month.
Hope you guys enjoyed, as always. Any kind of feedback is always welcome!
Older entries
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
As always thank you for making these. Very useful and really nice for tracking progress !
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i agree with geoff, magnificent thread 
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i still think the team league format is what makes SC2 interesting.
Oh well. I enjoy cheering for teams rather than players.
Thats why I think LoL is pretty awesome to watch as well.
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WCS AM has been struggling a bit, however. The finals had about half the viewers of WCS EU, and here we cannot use the time zone difference as an excuse. Or are there really so many more European Starcraft fans out there compared to American Starcraft fans? WCS AM has done consistently worse than WCS EU. What do you guys think is the reason for that? I'm especially interested in comments readers from the US/Americas on whether they watch WCS AM, or if they even prefer WCS EU over it. I've also added a poll to gauge the popularity of the various WCS regions to the bottom of the post. Do participate!
WCS EU was exciting. There was constantly something going on in between games. There were great casters and a host who kept things entertaining, a small crowd added a little bit of excitement if someone won, The games were just better and had memorable moments (forgg vs stephano). To beat the dead horse a little more, EU had mostly EU players. Players that people want to watch.
WCS AM was not exciting to watch at all. No crowd. Almost zero content outside of the games. No host. Long shots of the NY skyline and players room. Mediocre casting at best. When HerO won there was just dead silence followed by an awkward award ceremony. Oh yeah and the obvious... No NA players to actually root for.
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This really shows how well EG markets their players and streams. They may not have the greatest results at times, but they absolutely have the most air time for their sponsers.
I love these kinds of things, thanks for making this.
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Cool. Interesting to see the average WCS viewers are about 30k
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Seriously, things like the crowd chanting for TLO really added to the atmosphere. Plus, it was easy for me to pull up WCS EU while I was working, on an additional monitor  The production value for WCS NA was just... kind of meh.
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Does the total stream viewers per month include the WCS numbers? That would be surprising that it dipped that low, but I guess it was to be expected that the numbers would die down after the launch of HotS. It will be interesting to see what Blizzard does in the future to try and grow the game, rather than just have peaks at every launch.
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WCS Korea numbers missing the ones on goms streams though right?
// It actually says so in the topic..
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On June 04 2013 02:28 Clawfinger wrote:
Does the total stream viewers per month include the WCS numbers? That would be surprising that it dipped that low, but I guess it was to be expected that the numbers would die down after the launch of HotS. It will be interesting to see what Blizzard does in the future to try and grow the game, rather than just have peaks at every launch.
no player stream only
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yeah it was pretty obvious player streams werent going to stay as high with wcs on every hour of the day ;p
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I don't want to watch a few Koreans play in a sterile office environment with no hype and atmosphere not forgetting the casters. Even though they did bring in Bitterdam to save the day we can't forget who has been doing the other 98% of the WCS NA. The downtime was pretty bad too.
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Thanks for making this thread again !
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wow, protech with 325 hours that is dedication folks lol
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Artosis and Tasteless are sponsored by Tt eSports.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
Conti you too good <3
Demuslim right up there! Nice, and cool to see Select at 7.
EU finals was pretty big!
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Exceptionally well put together. Great MI and great commentary to help us make sense of it
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I lold when i saw Stephano's statistic. Hours streamed 9, but hella of a lot viewers XD
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The reason WCS AM gets fewer views:
WCS Korea and WCS EU are more entertaining for many and thats already a ton of content. WCS AM is the least entertaining so is the first to go with a lack of time.
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Wish we could see the number of unique VOD viewers from GOM. Would be interesting to see how many viewers watch the GSL/GSTL, obviously stream numbers aren't going to tell you the whole story for a tournament at such a bad time for most American viewers.
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Canada1169 Posts
SeleCT!
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Great to see this. WCS AM is usually on a little late for me (EET) so I only end up watching KR and EU.
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i don't know how you monitored the viewers but i saw many different stats..
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On June 04 2013 01:58 faintz wrote:Show nested quote +WCS AM has been struggling a bit, however. The finals had about half the viewers of WCS EU, and here we cannot use the time zone difference as an excuse. Or are there really so many more European Starcraft fans out there compared to American Starcraft fans? WCS AM has done consistently worse than WCS EU. What do you guys think is the reason for that? I'm especially interested in comments readers from the US/Americas on whether they watch WCS AM, or if they even prefer WCS EU over it. I've also added a poll to gauge the popularity of the various WCS regions to the bottom of the post. Do participate! WCS EU was exciting. There was constantly something going on in between games. There were great casters and a host who kept things entertaining, a small crowd added a little bit of excitement if someone won, The games were just better and had memorable moments (forgg vs stephano). To beat the dead horse a little more, EU had mostly EU players. Players that people want to watch. WCS AM was not exciting to watch at all. No crowd. Almost zero content outside of the games. No host. Long shots of the NY skyline and players room. Mediocre casting at best. When HerO won there was just dead silence followed by an awkward award ceremony. Oh yeah and the obvious... No NA players to actually root for.
What are you talking about, WCS AM was exciting as shit, just take a look at the following clip of the final match, when the winner was determined:
+ Show Spoiler +
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Can we get a WCS that groups by Premier/Challenger/Qualifier
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Why people watch Tara Babcock and don't just go to pornhub for a few minutes will always mystify me.
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On June 04 2013 05:14 DeathZepplin wrote:
Why people watch Tara Babcock and don't just go to pornhub for a few minutes will always mystify me.
The honesty of this post is astounding.
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Just saying
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On June 04 2013 03:42 TheRabidDeer wrote:
The reason WCS AM gets fewer views:
WCS Korea and WCS EU are more entertaining for many and thats already a ton of content. WCS AM is the least entertaining so is the first to go with a lack of time.
Exactly. WCS EU for me had the best time slot and was also the the best IMO. Great crowd for the finals (although small, but cheerful!) and a nice setup. WCS KR is solid like always and the highest display of skill, i try to watch it whenever i can. I did watch some of WCS AM but never liked it as good as the other two so i ended up not watching the finals after watching a few games of them. Didn't feel good in comparison to EU or KR.
Also loving this thread like always. Not a surprise players got less viewers after all those WCS events...
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Pictures are down/not loading 
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Less people probably watch WCS NA because it's boring as hell to watch Koreans stomp almost everyone else. Skill disparity takes the fun out of it.
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Ty so much for doing this!
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On June 04 2013 01:36 Conti wrote:The big picture (The actual numbers are not important, it's the ratio between month that's important.) We're back to pre HotS numbers, at least when it comes to player streams. That's not good for players who stream, obviously, but I don't see any cause for concern for the community's growth.
So i figure this is only the total player stream viewers?
I would be interested to see the total stream numbers as the sum of WCS content + player streams + team leagues
so you could see how those percentages shift. just like hots/wol content
On June 04 2013 05:14 DeathZepplin wrote:
Why people watch Tara Babcock and don't just go to pornhub for a few minutes will always mystify me.
i guess its not the strangest fetish to watch 2 boobies play wood league starcraft :D
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Shocked that Nathanias isn't in here.
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Thank you for making this, interesting.
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WCS AM has been struggling a bit, however. The finals had about half the viewers of WCS EU, and here we cannot use the time zone difference as an excuse. Or are there really so many more European Starcraft fans out there compared to American Starcraft fans? WCS AM has done consistently worse than WCS EU. What do you guys think is the reason for that? I'm especially interested in comments readers from the US/Americas on whether they watch WCS AM, or if they even prefer WCS EU over it. I've also added a poll to gauge the popularity of the various WCS regions to the bottom of the post. Do participate!
As an American, one of the reasons why I didn't watch WCS AM was that the scheduling didn't allow it. There were many days (especially during the online rounds, when there were actually American players playing) where the schedule was shifted earlier several hours (trying to get the European audience or accommodating the players?) and the games were all but over when I got home from work. And I live on the east coast. I can only imagine how much WCS AM a west coast American with a job would have gotten to watch.
In comparison, I could at least always tune into WCS EU during my lunch break.
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The wcs viewers might be influated a little because there are some people watching on different streams at the same time (even thought i think it's pretty few)
I think it's more important that all statistics show a little bit lower count that how many people are actually watching becuase several people watch on the same stream (barcrafts, normal vors, people coming together and watching and so on) Even thoght these numbers are probally not as high as on TV, It would be cool if it was possible to calculate how many people were watching each open stream in average, just like they do on tv
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WCS AM has been struggling a bit, however. The finals had about half the viewers of WCS EU, and here we cannot use the time zone difference as an excuse. Or are there really so many more European Starcraft fans out there compared to American Starcraft fans? WCS AM has done consistently worse than WCS EU. What do you guys think is the reason for that? I'm especially interested in comments readers from the US/Americas on whether they watch WCS AM, or if they even prefer WCS EU over it. I've also added a poll to gauge the popularity of the various WCS regions to the bottom of the post. Do participate!
I do think timezones are an excuse. WCS EU is on a good time for EU and (sort of) for USA, which results in a good viewercount. WCS Korea is in a good slot for Asia, and (sort of) for EU (but less will watch, cause office hours), so a bit less viewers. WCS NA is on a good time slot for USA and a reasonable timeslot for Asia. However Asians don't care about NA scene, because of the relative low level, so no asians watch. That is a whole continent less, which results in the poorest viewer counts.
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Damned. Protech streamed 330 hours... thats like 11 hours / day every day during a month.
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On June 04 2013 05:14 DeathZepplin wrote:
Why people watch Tara Babcock and don't just go to pornhub for a few minutes will always mystify me.
I'd give you an upvote if it was possible.
Regarding WCS NA: The production just wasn't there. MLG did a good job and had a beautiful 1080p stream (for free I might add) but there just was no sense of occasion.This is why Dreamhack and the Korean finals will always be more of an attraction because it feels like a much bigger deal. It's an event and the Dreamhack and the Korean finals felt like one. MLG, on the other hand, just felt subdued and completely void of any excitement. Any excitement generated wasn't because of MLG but rather due to fans hype.
WCS EU had this same problem but there was a very big Korean vs. non-Korean storyline permeating the entire tournament. WCS NA did not have this luxury. Of course, the EU scene does seem to have more fans of SC2 than NA. In other words, EU is more developed and has a larger fanbase.
Personally, I watched both EU and NA whenever I could/they were on. Neither were on par with WCS Korea in terms of excitement and skill. Without the time zone difference, I believe WCS Korea would lead the pack. That said, WCS Korea still pales in comparison to BW OSL Finals or Proleague finals in terms of sheer scope and thrill. Just watch the Korean Air S1 OSL Finals between Flash and Effort. Just watch the first 10 minutes or so (skip the singing girls) and you'll see what I'm on about.
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Confirmed average viewership for finals EU OVER NA OVER KR.
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On June 04 2013 07:05 oneill12 wrote:
Confirmed average viewership for finals EU OVER NA OVER KR.
KR had most viewership in total by a sizable amount. This OP is simply detailing Twitch.tv numbers. Other sites, such as Afreeca, were not included. Gom's numbers of course are private.
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As someone from the USA who chose to watch the StarStrikers tournament instead of the WCS AM Finals, I really didn't care if Hero or Revival won. They're both going to be at Korea for the Season 1 Finals. The only difference is which one gets 8k more. It didn't seem like it mattered in the long run. WCS EU and KR finals were fantastic though. Loved 'em.
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I wonder how much of a difference the korean numbers are here than actual total. When i first started watching sc2 i thought it wasnt as big outside of korea. Today, I feel like Sc2 is bigger outside korea. The only thing that has changed my mind is pro league and gsl crowd attendance. I wonder if it 20, 000, 100, 000, or even 0 missing viewers?
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With so much WCS content it's impossible to catch it all. People will tune in randomly, or choose to fully follow a specific region while catching the finals of the regions they don't watch. In this case, WCS AM was always going to be the victim. Look up the word "passable" in the dictionary and you'll get MLG's WCS AM. It did what advertised and nothing more. Incredibly bland, stale, boring and uninspired.
WCS EU was just flat out better and I'm glad it was so superior in a way, because there is no way Blizzard is gonna let their home region get such a bad season next time round. I expect big changes if they're serious about this project.
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Spanishiwa back on the charts! He plays so well even with lag on KR server. When he is cut loose on NA server, GTFO, he is nearly untouchable!
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I like Catz stream a lot but i dont like to watch players with low settings that much. Higher settings are so much more enjoyable to watch imo, but dont know why some guys stick with low graphs when gaming is their job.
Very nice job with these sick stats!
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Wow this is incredible THANK YOU !
Side Note: I did notice that for the WCS viewers you only calculated the primary stream and didn't add in the non-english streams. I know that WCS EU Finals Day 2 peaked at 135k total viewers as I happened to check on that day.
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i find it interesting that pl got the biggest viewer number at team8 vs kt???
seems odd
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On June 04 2013 08:40 SCST wrote:
Wow this is incredible THANK YOU !
Side Note: I did notice that for the WCS viewers you only calculated the primary stream and didn't add in the non-english streams. I know that WCS EU Finals Day 2 peaked at 135k total viewers as I happened to check on that day.
The numbers are average viewers. I did some old fashion eyeballing and noted these numbers:
WCS EU Ro32: 40-40-30-41-43-37-57-44
WCS NA Ro32: 15-17-17-19-24-21-30-26
WCS EU Ro16: 50-53-55-61
WCS AM Ro16: 24-23-26-23
WCS EU Ro8: 82
WCS EU Finals: 134
WCS AM Ro8: 43
WCS AM Finals: 55
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I dont watch NA for two reasons
1) I don't like the casters
2) no crowd, no content and tons of boring down time. Mlg simply can't run a online event well.
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The fact that a lot of people use Gom's website to view their events hurts some of their numbers (unless you are taking that into account).
Having said that, I think everything has been a resounding success aside from WCS Am, and even that was not a failure (just didn't live up to our high standards).
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Seriously awesome that you take the time to make these threads. I mainly watched WCS EU and KR even though I am from AM. Couldn't stomach to watch AM with no AM in it. Proleague > GSTL imo since it's becoming higher level and 5 dollars I paid for a full season of proleague is just incredible ><
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Thanks alot man! Always great to see these at the start of each new month
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Love these! Very cool to see the WCS numbers. I think that adding a pie chart of the 3 WCS region total numbers would be cool. What do you all think?
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I love this thread. Great work! It's interesting to see that Stephano is still #1, even though he is leaving in just a few short months. Maybe everybody is trying to get their last glimpse of him before he retires.
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On June 04 2013 08:40 SCST wrote:
Wow this is incredible THANK YOU !
Side Note: I did notice that for the WCS viewers you only calculated the primary stream and didn't add in the non-english streams. I know that WCS EU Finals Day 2 peaked at 135k total viewers as I happened to check on that day.
I have included all the non-English streams. The bars for the WCS EU events are broken down by stream, the lighter color is the main WCS EU stream, the darker colors are the local streams. And the numbers are the totals of the average viewers, not the peak viewers. So your 135k observation is entirely correct.
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On June 04 2013 09:27 DenTenker wrote:
I love this thread. Great work! It's interesting to see that Stephano is still #1, even though he is leaving in just a few short months. Maybe everybody is trying to get their last glimpse of him before he retires.
I wonder if he's really retiring this time... I certainly hope not
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No poll option for what I'd pick, which is essentially whatever is on that is convenient to watch for me. Being on the US west coast with cliche full time hours, that ends up being the tail ends of WCS NA and sometimes WCS EU VoDs if there isnt any DotA2 I'd rather catch up on. I Don't sub to twitch/GOM so the only times I watch KR SC2 is proleague and GSL finals (since I can stay up to 2-3am on Fri-Sat).
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KT vs Team 8 got almost 20k viewers...? What?
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On June 04 2013 09:44 GolemMadness wrote:
KT vs Team 8 got almost 20k viewers...? What?
Seems like it started 12am CEST (90 minutes behind schedule). Europes #1 lunch break show, perhaps?
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personally I'm fine with WC dominating the scene and then having a few big weekend tourneys spread the rest of the year. Thats how other sports work, in the UK you watch the premier league or league 1, all controlled and run by the FA. No one complains that the fact that teams only play in 1 league each year is hurting football.
We are getting towards the actual model sports use, a main league that is the focus for all the top players and then extra tournaments on the side, like the Champions or Europa League. So WCS is the premiership/league 1 and DH is the Europa League, Iron Squid the Champions League, or the FA cup etc. Why would this be a bad thing? We are always talking about how we want esports to be like normal sport, well folks.... here it is. This is what you wanted.
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As an American, I enjoyed watching WCS EU the most; in part because I'm more familiar with the EU scene and its players but also because I feel they had a better show. The space was good, the crowd had lots of energy despite being small, great casters and analysts (c'mon, how can you beat Apollo and MC together?), an excellent host, and a jovial atmosphere that struck a good balance between professional and fun. The final match being a showdown between MVP and Stephano helped quite a bit and it was nice to see the EU players hold their own against the Korean pros that were there.
Conversely, WCS NA came across as being rather sterile. No host, no crowd, the casters were good (IMO Axeltoss showed much improvement over the course of the season) but not particularly exciting or entertaining, and nothing happening between games. The whole thing just lacked the character that WCS EU had going for it. As for the playing field, it started out intriguing with a lot of potential for some great stories but the majority of the NA players were KO'd in the RO32, followed by Scarlett, Sen, and Suppy in the RO16, and finally Snute and mOOnGLaDe in the quarterfinals. That was rather disappointing and I expect it killed off a fair bit of interest (incidentally, I'm glad Ryung made it through).
I think anything that MLG can do to up the excitement and entertainment level for the WCS NA broadcast would be a good place to start, especially if they can incorporate an in-studio crowd of some kind (could be difficult with the space available to them), but it needs to be more than just Ax^2 casting games back to back. As far as the playing field goes, that's a larger and much more difficult problem to solve and since it has been debated both here and elsewhere ad nauseum, I see no need to throw my 2 cents in.
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Why are there people on your list that don't make sense at all? for example Tara babcock who never streams does not contribute anything. But you don't add Root-Nathanis who streams every single day with a good stream number and casts events ect? Always love seeing the views of the real players though good job, But I think you could replace a few of thoses people and add in the people like Nathanis who streams daily high numbers and does other community events.Think Tara only had a high view count 1 time when Demuslim was playin games on it.
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On June 04 2013 11:20 LingBlingBling wrote:
Why are there people on your list that don't make sense at all? for example Tara babcock who never streams does not contribute anything. But you don't add Root-Nathanis who streams every single day with a good stream number and casts events ect? Always love seeing the views of the real players though good job, But I think you could replace a few of thoses people and add in the people like Nathanis who streams daily high numbers and does other community events.Think Tara only had a high view count 1 time when Demuslim was playin games on it.
It's a list for players not for casters. Same reason you don't see Take, Khaldor etc.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Man I wish we could get numbers for Korean streams, Korean TV, afreeca, etc. Those numbers are pretty important.
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On June 04 2013 11:23 FXOdesRow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 11:20 LingBlingBling wrote:
Why are there people on your list that don't make sense at all? for example Tara babcock who never streams does not contribute anything. But you don't add Root-Nathanis who streams every single day with a good stream number and casts events ect? Always love seeing the views of the real players though good job, But I think you could replace a few of thoses people and add in the people like Nathanis who streams daily high numbers and does other community events.Think Tara only had a high view count 1 time when Demuslim was playin games on it. It's a list for players not for casters. Same reason you don't see Take, Khaldor etc.
Nathan is a player he plays terrans and commentates as he plays almost daily with a good stream count.......Also don't see how tara had more then ms. spyte and few others who get around 1k-3k daily. Tara streams maybe once a week or less and had a 1 time high view count with demuslim on it? And there are several casters listed desrow they are also players lol. Tastless/Artosis
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On June 04 2013 11:23 FXOdesRow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 11:20 LingBlingBling wrote:
Why are there people on your list that don't make sense at all? for example Tara babcock who never streams does not contribute anything. But you don't add Root-Nathanis who streams every single day with a good stream number and casts events ect? Always love seeing the views of the real players though good job, But I think you could replace a few of thoses people and add in the people like Nathanis who streams daily high numbers and does other community events.Think Tara only had a high view count 1 time when Demuslim was playin games on it. It's a list for players not for casters. Same reason you don't see Take, Khaldor etc.
Yet there's Tasteless? Who pretty much only played Mario 3, Mario 2, TMNT, and Contra during this period on his stream?
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Wow a lot of information that people want to know put together very well! Thank you :3
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Ty for all the effort! Interesting to watch the numbers progress.
I'm surprised the individual player streams stay as strong with WCS being on so constantly. Blizzard needs to create buffer time between events and therefore scarcity if they want this interest level to persist.
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On June 04 2013 03:10 GunSec wrote:
wow, protech with 325 hours that is dedication folks lol
On June 04 2013 06:45 v_lm wrote:
Damned. Protech streamed 330 hours... thats like 11 hours / day every day during a month.
I think the majority of Protech's streaming hours lately are in Diablo III though, not SC2. (thus kinda questionable to compare)
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On June 04 2013 11:26 LingBlingBling wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 11:23 FXOdesRow wrote:On June 04 2013 11:20 LingBlingBling wrote:
Why are there people on your list that don't make sense at all? for example Tara babcock who never streams does not contribute anything. But you don't add Root-Nathanis who streams every single day with a good stream number and casts events ect? Always love seeing the views of the real players though good job, But I think you could replace a few of thoses people and add in the people like Nathanis who streams daily high numbers and does other community events.Think Tara only had a high view count 1 time when Demuslim was playin games on it. It's a list for players not for casters. Same reason you don't see Take, Khaldor etc. Nathan is a player he plays terrans and commentates as he plays almost daily with a good stream count.......Also don't see how tara had more then ms. spyte and few others who get around 1k-3k daily. Tara streams maybe once a week or less and had a 1 time high view count with demuslim on it? And there are several casters listed desrow they are also players lol. Tastless/Artosis
I've excluded Nathanias because by now he does a lot of casting (and he's awesome at it, I have to say), and he does it almost all from his personal streaming account. I would have to filter out every single cast he did manually to only get the numbers from his stream when he plays the game, which would be too much work. And then there's always the possibility that he would cast something while not assigned to any event in the TL.net calendar, which is absolutely impossible for me to verify from the data I have, unless I just happen to watch his stream at the time.
That's also why I don't include Take, for instance. He's been playing a lot lately in his "Getting to GM" program, but it's all on the TakeTV account, which for the most part is for casts. Both Take and Nathanias would have made it into the list otherwise.
On June 04 2013 18:10 figq wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 03:10 GunSec wrote:
wow, protech with 325 hours that is dedication folks lol Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 06:45 v_lm wrote:
Damned. Protech streamed 330 hours... thats like 11 hours / day every day during a month. I think the majority of Protech's streaming hours lately are in Diablo III though, not SC2. (thus kinda questionable to compare)
I only take the viewer numbers into account when the players are streaming SC2. It's up to the players to tell the TL.net sidebar which game they are playing, though, so it's entirely possible that Protech (or anyone else) was playing Diablo III while the website said he was playing SC2.
That's what happened with Tasteless, too: According to my data, he's been playing SC2. I know he's definitely been playing other games, though, but I cannot say for certain if all of his SC2 time really was spent playing other games or not. Someone might want to give him a poke and tell him to think of setting the games he plays correctly in the TL.net interface.
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On June 04 2013 11:20 LingBlingBling wrote:
Why are there people on your list that don't make sense at all? for example Tara babcock who never streams does not contribute anything. But you don't add Root-Nathanis who streams every single day with a good stream number and casts events ect? Always love seeing the views of the real players though good job, But I think you could replace a few of thoses people and add in the people like Nathanis who streams daily high numbers and does other community events.Think Tara only had a high view count 1 time when Demuslim was playin games on it.
LOLWut? I stream 3-4x a week for 4 hours each with an average of 850-1000 concurrent viewers each time. I even had to take 2 weeks off this month and made the list. Check the hours logged and average viewership before you talk.
Also, I interact and entertain while I am trying to improve. The fact that I bring in more non-StarCraft fans to watch StarCraft also contributes.
Always the hate from people who have never watched my stream and are completely ignorant to me other than my appearance. O.o
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On June 04 2013 01:58 faintz wrote:Show nested quote +WCS AM has been struggling a bit, however. The finals had about half the viewers of WCS EU, and here we cannot use the time zone difference as an excuse. Or are there really so many more European Starcraft fans out there compared to American Starcraft fans? WCS AM has done consistently worse than WCS EU. What do you guys think is the reason for that? I'm especially interested in comments readers from the US/Americas on whether they watch WCS AM, or if they even prefer WCS EU over it. I've also added a poll to gauge the popularity of the various WCS regions to the bottom of the post. Do participate! WCS EU was exciting. There was constantly something going on in between games. There were great casters and a host who kept things entertaining, a small crowd added a little bit of excitement if someone won, The games were just better and had memorable moments (forgg vs stephano). To beat the dead horse a little more, EU had mostly EU players. Players that people want to watch. WCS AM was not exciting to watch at all. No crowd. Almost zero content outside of the games. No host. Long shots of the NY skyline and players room. Mediocre casting at best. When HerO won there was just dead silence followed by an awkward award ceremony. Oh yeah and the obvious... No NA players to actually root for.
This a thousand times! MLG really needs to reminded that they were supposed to be hosting a huge tournament to wrap up the American circuit for Season 1 and it just looks like they decided to wing it.
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MLG is not a tournament organization, it's disorganization at its finest. Blizzard really needs to hand over WCS AM to NASL or the IPL people they have employed for reasons i do not know.
a lot of really interesting information in there though. to this day i don't understand why people enjoy watching player streams so much, but more power to them as it does give the players moneys.
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On June 05 2013 05:34 Schelim wrote:
to this day i don't understand why people enjoy watching player streams so much, but more power to them as it does give the players moneys.
I watch player streams for two reasons:
1. If they are interesting/entertaining people.
2. If they play the race I do and are better than me (which isn't hard). It helps if they provide commentary so I can learn easier.
I think player streams allow for more chat community interaction as well. It's kind of like a forum where people can share ideas while watching their favorite personalities.
It's also just something interesting to watch while eating dinner or before bed instead of TV that won't teach you anything!
BTW, I just wanna say these monthly threads are amazing! Motivates me, too!
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On June 04 2013 01:58 faintz wrote:Show nested quote +WCS AM has been struggling a bit, however. The finals had about half the viewers of WCS EU, and here we cannot use the time zone difference as an excuse. Or are there really so many more European Starcraft fans out there compared to American Starcraft fans? WCS AM has done consistently worse than WCS EU. What do you guys think is the reason for that? I'm especially interested in comments readers from the US/Americas on whether they watch WCS AM, or if they even prefer WCS EU over it. I've also added a poll to gauge the popularity of the various WCS regions to the bottom of the post. Do participate! WCS EU was exciting. There was constantly something going on in between games. There were great casters and a host who kept things entertaining, a small crowd added a little bit of excitement if someone won, The games were just better and had memorable moments (forgg vs stephano). To beat the dead horse a little more, EU had mostly EU players. Players that people want to watch. WCS AM was not exciting to watch at all. No crowd. Almost zero content outside of the games. No host. Long shots of the NY skyline and players room. Mediocre casting at best. When HerO won there was just dead silence followed by an awkward award ceremony. Oh yeah and the obvious... No NA players to actually root for.
This pretty much echo's my own opinion. WCS EU feels like an actual show, WCS AM feels like MLG grudgingly fulfilling an obligation to Blizzard while they nervously check to see if they can pay the bills next month. I believe that this is by far the biggest factor in determining the views.
Coupled with the fact that EU currently just has a sprinkling of Korean pros, enough to still give the viewers hope in a foreigner victory, AM on the other hand is fricking littered with them. Also EU's time zone does favour them in that they're more likely to score more EU and AM views. Those two secondary facts certainly mean that AM will always have an uphill struggle, but ultimately the unfortunate fact is that EU is just a better show/viewing experience in pretty much every way imaginable.
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Dat WCS EU Finals spike in viewers o0 :D
I am a bit disipointed with the viewernumbers for the NA finals, i enjoyed it alot (gameswise) and unlike most US tournament i liked the times it was broadcasted even for EU guys, not sure why it got only half the numbers on average.
Thanks for the info though, always cool to read stats and info !
Coupled with the fact that EU currently just has a sprinkling of Korean pros, enough to still give the viewers hope in a foreigner victory, AM on the other hand is fricking littered with them. Also EU's time zone does favour them in that they're more likely to score more EU and AM views. Those two secondary facts certainly mean that AM will always have an uphill struggle, but ultimately the unfortunate fact is that EU is just a better show/viewing experience in pretty much every way imaginable.
I don't think you can use this to much, maybe for the casual viewer you would be right, but a suprising amount of EU people watch MLG events and they usualy play at night for us, these games were send out for me around 9pm in the evening i believe wich is a huge improvement on those that MLG used to have wich started 12ish at it's early point.
Point being MLG's in general are one of the highest in viewer numbers, it can use the same excuse you just made, yet numbers were very impressive.
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MLG step it up! Get a studio audience going and I'll be there as much as I can!
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I watched the EU finals and the AM finals both. I find the time for the AM games in europe quite good to watch, i don't go that early to sleep at weekend, so stream starting at 10PM is ok, much better than korean times where they start at 5 to 9 AM, no way to watch this...
The lack of actual NA Players make a big point in the lesser viewers, i heard many people say, that shoutcraft is the real NA Tournament, because there play actual North American Player, and not only koreans. A few koreans are ok, also koreans like polt living in the us, but about 75% or so are way to much, failing the Qualifiers like this made even more people not watching the rest of the NA Tournament.
And like a few posters have already said, the atmosphere of the WCS EU was really good. It was only a small audience, but they cheered, the hosts interacted with the crowd with the players, the caster were good, the analyses were good, it was a good show all together. Reminded me a bit of the "family atmosphere" of HomestoryCup what makes the HSC such a unique fun tournament to watch
The NA show lacked most of that. I watched mostly the instant vods and scrolled to the next game, so i didnt have to see the skyline all the time and could watch more of the games.
As a little sidenote this is what killed the Season Finals: no free vods or rebroadcast... Its like saying "Fuck you European or American viewers, we dont care if you cant see the games!"
If the stream is paid only and the vods too, i can understand. But free stream and no free vods is just bad... and really hurting them.
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They did rebroadcast and the vods are (re)brought to you here by the juicy James. It's all good.
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I just got a question looking at this.
Protech streamed for 325hours, thats over 10hours a day, Im just wondering, with average 200 viewers, how much is he actually making/can he make a living? Its amazing that he streams so much Im just interested to see if high volume can make up for low viewers?
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The reason I didn't watch WCS NA was because it was because by the round of 16, it wasn't an NA tournament. It was pretty much GSL Code A.
If I wanted to watch GSL Code A, I'll just watch it. I have no time to watch a tournament were there no players to root for and is essentially an inferior version (production-wise) of something that already exists.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8028950/TL/top%2050%202013%2005.png)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8028950/TL/top%2050%202013%2005x.png)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8028950/TL/WCS%202013%2005.png)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8028950/TL/Proleague%20GSTL%202013%2005.png)
