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Warp prism speed buff, test map. 5.28.2013 - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
1346 CommentsPost a Reply
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Xenomorph
Profile Joined May 2010
United States137 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-28 19:08:00
May 28 2013 19:07 GMT
#181
I think its a great idea! It will be fun in PvT to try to rush out templar-prism for extra medivac defense.
Intrepid Traveler
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
May 28 2013 19:07 GMT
#182
On May 29 2013 04:06 StarcraftNerd1547 wrote:
No, please no! Zealot/DT warpins are already so crazy hard to deal with. This will make it so that they can do it earlier and it will make TvP a really hard MU past 2 bases, when it comes to keeping eco up.


Oh damn, hard to defend past two bases?!?!?!?! Sounds like PvT with speed medivacs!!! Freaking Terran players, man.

Also, DT play won't come any earlier lol, the DT shrine build time is the limiting factor, not the warp prism's speed.
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 28 2013 19:08 GMT
#183
On May 29 2013 03:53 Pursuit_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 03:51 Plansix wrote:
On May 29 2013 03:46 Wingblade wrote:
On May 29 2013 03:43 sitromit wrote:
On May 29 2013 03:32 Wingblade wrote:
On May 29 2013 03:20 larse wrote:
Protoss is not underperforming in Korea.

David Kim got the wrong impression.

Here is the Korean winrate since release
[image loading]
http://i.imgur.com/GVFU7No.png

Here is April winrate:
[image loading]
http://i.imgur.com/2VGA4RP.png


You sure about that???

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series/Statistics

Did you actually look at the stats you posted?

Korea Code S: 48.9% PvZ, 50% PvT
Korea Code A: 54.8% PvZ, 48% PvT

I don't know how anyone can quote those stats as an indication of imbalance with a straight face.


Cherrypicking like a boss. Look at the overall WCS winrates. Of course the 30 games per matchup in Korea is all we need for balance right?

We can disregard the 33 percent PvT winrate in Europe because well hey it's not Korea right?

That is how you win arguments on the internet. You take "data" from the area that supports your argument and then claim over and over that all other data irrelevant for due to your data being the best. Just wait for the arguments that Korea is the highest level of play and all other regions don't matter, ever.(unless protoss is winning in those regions, then they should be nerfed because everyone isn't a GSL Korean pro)


Did you even read the discussion? The first post in this chain specifically says Protoss is not under performing IN KOREA. You're the one taking data that supports your argument when it doesn't apply.

edit: It's even bolded and highlighted.

Clearly 30 games from Korea are what we need to balance for the entire scene. Why do those 30 games matter more than others and why do people keep referencing them as if they are more important? Aren't they offset by that fact that there are only 6 protoss in the round of 8 across all three regions and there may be no protoss at the finals for WSC for season 1?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-28 19:11:54
May 28 2013 19:08 GMT
#184
Not a bad buff.
I'll allow it. :D

Everything that increases movement speed is alright in my book. As long as we're not giving +2 range to the fucking queen.
smashlloyd20
Profile Joined October 2012
251 Posts
May 28 2013 19:09 GMT
#185
Somewhere in Korea HerO is crying (tears of joy)
Scones
Profile Joined June 2012
Wales99 Posts
May 28 2013 19:09 GMT
#186
(I will talk about zvp as i dont know anything about tvp)

I don't think the problem is the warp prism speed, I think it is the way protoss works in general(Weak gateway units, easily counterable units, but very strong all ins, due to the timings they can hit before zerg tech(Immortal all in hits before muta/infestors, Etc)

The units they have are so bad that you need forcefields, which can be stupid.

Nerf/Removal of forcefield, and a large buff to zealots and stalkers and a new spell on sentries would be the best way to balance the game. It's definately too late for something that radical though
Rainling
Profile Joined June 2011
United States456 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-28 19:13:53
May 28 2013 19:10 GMT
#187
I don't understand people who say protoss already plenty of aggressive options, then list all in or semi-all in choices like dts, oracles, or warp gate rushes. The nice thing about the warp prism is it allows protoss to harass without committing so much to aggression. I think this is a good change.
Pazuzu
Profile Joined July 2011
United States632 Posts
May 28 2013 19:10 GMT
#188
Sounds like a very well thought-out proposed change. I'm all for more aggressive options etc, but I wouldn't be TOO surprised if the speed increase turns out to be too big a benefit (can out run even phoenixes though somebody please correct me if I'm wrong!). Either way, it'll bring some interesting results gogo blizzard :D
"It is because intuition is sometimes right, that we don't know what to do with it"
Latty
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany567 Posts
May 28 2013 19:10 GMT
#189
whats the deal with making flying things faster all the time ... its stupid imo
"Nice, *claps* gogo kill kill, yeah bane speed, nice EU Power" Dimaga
TheBarcid
Profile Joined December 2012
Canada44 Posts
May 28 2013 19:10 GMT
#190
Buffing instead of nerfing is harder, but healthier in the long run. I'm not sure if the change is perfect but they are looking in the right direction.

I really hope this stops swarmhost zvp in its tracks. Or at least makes it more interesting to watch. Stephano's zvp games in wcs eu were painful reminders of WOL style play, powerful, but BORING.
KredeOWN
Profile Joined March 2013
Germany4 Posts
May 28 2013 19:11 GMT
#191
so only immortal drops in pvp. stupid idea
Butterednuts
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States859 Posts
May 28 2013 19:11 GMT
#192
I'm not so sure about this buff. There's only a few Protoss players that really utilize the Warp Prism. Now that Air play is a little bit more viable, going back to buffing robo tech seems a little wishy washy. Players that already utilized the Warp Prism will play stronger while those that still feel that the Warp Prism is ineffective will see no change.
Chameleons Cast No Shadows
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
May 28 2013 19:11 GMT
#193
idk how you respond to all these ignorant and pedantic posts plansix. people bitched up and down the street about medivacs speed, it's pretty much fine imo. same with a lot of stuff. make units better instead of nerfing them. it makes for a fun game (and it can be balanced too, what a concept!).
The universe created an audience for itself.
DBS
Profile Joined July 2012
515 Posts
May 28 2013 19:12 GMT
#194
Time to go back to the immortal drop PvPs of old, if only i still played toss, i loved that brief metagame
"a pitchfork is for hay. a trident is for killing bitches." -djwheat
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
May 28 2013 19:13 GMT
#195
I'm no PvZ expert, can anyone tell me what's the state of the soul train in hots ? With msc and possibly speed-prism, it smells like good fun
Terran & Potato Salad.
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
May 28 2013 19:13 GMT
#196
On May 29 2013 04:08 ZenithM wrote:
Not a bad buff.
I'll allow it. :D

Everything that increases movement speed is alright in my book. As long as we're not giving +2 range to the fucking queen.

how about 20 range tempests? fuck it, let's make hellbats hit air.
The universe created an audience for itself.
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
May 28 2013 19:13 GMT
#197
On May 29 2013 04:08 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 03:53 Pursuit_ wrote:
On May 29 2013 03:51 Plansix wrote:
On May 29 2013 03:46 Wingblade wrote:
On May 29 2013 03:43 sitromit wrote:
On May 29 2013 03:32 Wingblade wrote:
On May 29 2013 03:20 larse wrote:
Protoss is not underperforming in Korea.

David Kim got the wrong impression.

Here is the Korean winrate since release
[image loading]
http://i.imgur.com/GVFU7No.png

Here is April winrate:
[image loading]
http://i.imgur.com/2VGA4RP.png


You sure about that???

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series/Statistics

Did you actually look at the stats you posted?

Korea Code S: 48.9% PvZ, 50% PvT
Korea Code A: 54.8% PvZ, 48% PvT

I don't know how anyone can quote those stats as an indication of imbalance with a straight face.


Cherrypicking like a boss. Look at the overall WCS winrates. Of course the 30 games per matchup in Korea is all we need for balance right?

We can disregard the 33 percent PvT winrate in Europe because well hey it's not Korea right?

That is how you win arguments on the internet. You take "data" from the area that supports your argument and then claim over and over that all other data irrelevant for due to your data being the best. Just wait for the arguments that Korea is the highest level of play and all other regions don't matter, ever.(unless protoss is winning in those regions, then they should be nerfed because everyone isn't a GSL Korean pro)


Did you even read the discussion? The first post in this chain specifically says Protoss is not under performing IN KOREA. You're the one taking data that supports your argument when it doesn't apply.

edit: It's even bolded and highlighted.

Clearly 30 games from Korea are what we need to balance for the entire scene. Why do those 30 games matter more than others and why do people keep referencing them as if they are more important? Aren't they offset by that fact that there are only 6 protoss in the round of 8 across all three regions and there may be no protoss at the finals for WSC for season 1?


You DO realize that Blizzard specifically points to "THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF PLAY" and "IN KOREA" in the opening statements justifying the reason for this buff. Why wouldn't THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF PLAY IN KOREA be relevant?

Why should anything else matter MORE than EXACTLY WHAT BLIZZARD REFERRED TO!?!?
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
Bahamuth
Profile Joined September 2011
134 Posts
May 28 2013 19:13 GMT
#198
On May 29 2013 04:11 KredeOWN wrote:
so only immortal drops in pvp. stupid idea


I can't believe half of this community. You blurt out anything Blizzard does is stupid, then back it up by saying something that will obviously not happen at all. There are no Robo openings at all in PvP. Do you seriously think everyone will open Robo now? It's still going to be bad against Phoenixes.
EmilA
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark4618 Posts
May 28 2013 19:13 GMT
#199
Very cool idea
http://dotabuff.com/players/122305951 playing other games
Bongy
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark151 Posts
May 28 2013 19:13 GMT
#200
I'd rather see the speed upgrade moved to the cyber core and not just applying the buff and removing the upgrade.
http://myhah.net/
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