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sitromit
7051 Posts
On May 29 2013 03:46 Wingblade wrote: Cherrypicking like a boss. Look at the overall WCS winrates. Of course the 30 games per matchup in Korea is all we need for balance right? No, let's just take stats from second tier EU and NA pro games instead. Obviously that tells us everything about balance at the highest level of play. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On May 29 2013 03:42 Plansix wrote: As I stated, Blizzard has all this data and more. If you look at the top 8 of WCS EU and KR, you will see a total of 3 protoss. If you included NA, that's 6 more out of 24 total players. But I am sure people will spend lot of time quoting stats that prove they are doing just fine and ignoring stats that say they aren't. After all, this is the internet, where we can choose what we want to believe. Uh 3 protoss in the top 8 is pretty good lol. You are right though this is the internet, and you are choosing what you want to believe as well ^^. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24584 Posts
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KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
On May 29 2013 03:46 Bloonhead wrote: I do not agree at all with this. Because how will early game presence of a speed prism do with just 4 zealots or stalkers, and the only HUGE impact this will have is in PvP, where speed immortals could come back with a vengeance. But how does this actually help in PvT/Z? You can have a faster prism that can do nothing vs corruptor/muta, or against mech that has vikings or even bio with vikings. I find this possible buff to actually be counterproductive to what actually needs to be addressed for Protoss. So while this is an interesting buff, I find this not to be a the right answer that Protoss needs to actually be a force like they almost were in WoL. It helps in PvT/Z by improving the harassment potential of protoss in these matchups. | ||
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chaosfreak11
Singapore367 Posts
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Scones
Wales99 Posts
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On May 29 2013 03:46 Wingblade wrote: Cherrypicking like a boss. Look at the overall WCS winrates. Of course the 30 games per matchup in Korea is all we need for balance right? We can disregard the 33 percent PvT winrate in Europe because well hey it's not Korea right? Read the first post, this was specifically in response to "Protoss is not under performing in Korea". Protoss does appear to be under performing in EU and AM. | ||
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Pachacutec
Peru53 Posts
On May 29 2013 03:40 Fig wrote: Probably. If they are getting rid of the upgrade completely, the easiest way to do that is just have them start with it. dont give it then, the WP would be more micro intensive and thats always a good thing | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
Also demand even faster overlords. Let SC2 be all about drops regardless of race. YEEEEEAAAAHHH. | ||
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Apoptotic
United States137 Posts
In regards to the post about all of the potential strategies that become available when you scout two gases in TvP, if you know your timings you can scan whenever you know tech should be going down and you should be able to scout it. A Terran complaining about scouting, seriously? Finally, I don't really see how this buff impacts Robo all-ins as severely as people are claiming. When you think about it, sure the warp-prism will be faster, but it doesn't build faster, warp units in faster, or switch between transport or warp mode any faster. Most builds have the Warp Prism coming out of the robo after two or three immortals. The build time is still going to be the same, and In most cases you've still got to wait for your army at home to walk to the opponents base if you warped things in at home. The only situation I can see the all-in coming faster is if Protoss built no units and warped only from the warp prism once the prism got to the front and dropped two immortals. The difference in time there is obviously the change in move-speed and would depend on the map, but again the answer to that is knowing what's coming and preparing in advance. If you keep a couple units poking in and out of the Toss front, you can tell if units are being produced/cut and you can scan/sac ovies to know for sure. In the case of DT drops, the limiting factor in terms of speed isn't how fast your warp prism gets to your opponents base, it's how fast you can build your DT shrine. In the tail's DT drop, for example, the build is currently timed in such a way that the warp prism, at it's current speed, arrives exactly at the main when the shrine finishes. If it gets there any faster, there still wont be any DTs because the shrine is still warping in. I think it's a fairly minor buff for an upgrade that isn't often purchased. When it was upgraded, it didn't suddenly break the game and mean instant-win for Toss. Whenever we saw it upgraded we knew we were in for more exciting games involving battles on multiple parts of the map. I'm excited for the change and I hope it goes through. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 29 2013 03:46 Wingblade wrote: Cherrypicking like a boss. Look at the overall WCS winrates. Of course the 30 games per matchup in Korea is all we need for balance right? We can disregard the 33 percent PvT winrate in Europe because well hey it's not Korea right? That is how you win arguments on the internet. You take "data" from the area that supports your argument and then claim over and over that all other data irrelevant for due to your data being the best. Just wait for the arguments that Korea is the highest level of play and all other regions don't matter, ever.(unless protoss is winning in those regions, then they should be nerfed because everyone isn't a GSL Korean pro) | ||
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AxiR
Germany944 Posts
I don't see how it would make anything op, and it would add so much to the lategame. Getting that upgrade is always so annyoing | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
On May 29 2013 03:45 ACrow wrote: Yo dawg, I heard you like statistics: GSL winners (regular season + special events such as Super Tournament): Terran: 10 Zerg: 10 Protoss: 3 GSL top 4: Terran: 47 Zerg: 29 Protoss:20 Time since last Protoss champion: 10 months Source + Show Spoiler + My point is: statistics is always what you make of it. You included for example the very P-heavy Proleague, but not GSTL, WCS NA, AM etc. What a good statistics knowledge you got there. I'm amazed by your large sample size. And seriously, who said they don't include GSTL and WCS NA. The second chart is global. You can wait for the author to release May winrate. He is doing it. Protoss's PvT and PvZ are all above 50% | ||
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
On May 29 2013 03:49 blade55555 wrote: Uh 3 protoss in the top 8 is pretty good lol. You are right though this is the internet, and you are choosing what you want to believe as well ^^. I think he meant that there have been 3 protoss players in the combined top 8 of those tournaments. | ||
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
What I'd like to see is a buff to base Zealot movement speed, maybe Charge cost lowered to 150/150? It's so painful that the iconic, core Protoss unit is so fucking useless before an expensive upgrade. You can put a 10 second cooldown on FF to compensate, I don't care. On May 29 2013 03:42 TheDwf wrote: Such a terrible idea. I can't believe they think making the Warp Prism naturally immune to Viking hunting can lead to anything good in PvT. As if Protoss needed stronger low risk, high reward stuff in this match-up... Ahahaha, the sheer obliviousness of a Terran player complaining about "low risk, high reward" stuff on the Protoss side of the matchup, while teleporting his Medivacs from base to base, is a thing of extreme hilarity. Any other insight about PvT you wanted to share with us, my friend? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 29 2013 03:49 blade55555 wrote: Uh 3 protoss in the top 8 is pretty good lol. You are right though this is the internet, and you are choosing what you want to believe as well ^^. Except it is 3 total in the top 8. That's 3 out of 16, or less than 25%. That is 1 in EU and two in KR. | ||
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[]Phase[]
Belgium927 Posts
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On May 29 2013 03:51 Plansix wrote: That is how you win arguments on the internet. You take "data" from the area that supports your argument and then claim over and over that all other data irrelevant for due to your data being the best. Just wait for the arguments that Korea is the highest level of play and all other regions don't matter, ever.(unless protoss is winning in those regions, then they should be nerfed because everyone isn't a GSL Korean pro) Did you even read the discussion? The first post in this chain specifically says Protoss is not under performing IN KOREA. You're the one taking data that supports your argument when it doesn't apply. edit: It's even bolded and highlighted. | ||
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Penguinator
United States837 Posts
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GattAttack
Canada202 Posts
On May 29 2013 03:53 Penguinator wrote: Can zergs get an overlord speed buff?... Also overlords should be able to heal zerg units. And they should also be able to spawn units... yeah Overseers can spawn changelings...does that count? XD They can't puke though...so sad | ||
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