|
On May 29 2013 03:31 KelsierSC wrote:
I think Blizzard is following the philosophy that they want every race to have strong, potentiall imbalanced options rather than having every race equally weak.
Medivac got faster and it is really strong now, rather than nerf the medivac lets buff the warp prism.
I don't know how this will work out but I like the philosophy and it should really add excitement.
warp prism harass is one of the most exciting this you can see from a protoss imo
This is what it really boils down to, imo. Right now, outside of PvP, protoss is REALLY FUCKING BORING to watch and play. Anything that makes the race more interesting is a good thing.
|
What I like is that this will benefit protoss players with good multitasking but I don't feel like it's addressing the problem protoss currently has. Not sure what would help though.
|
LoL. Who pick data and support the argument?
The first chart is the whole Korean scene. And the second chart is the global scene. It's the whole pro scene. How is he picking the data?
|
On May 29 2013 03:51 Apoptotic wrote:
For one, I don't understand why everyone is citing Proleague as an example of Protoss being stronger. I thought it was pretty clear that the current map pool clearly favors Protoss, and this leads to more PvP. Why would you send any other race on a map where Protoss is favored due to the map design? Obviously it is the current highest level of play, but it still can't be taken as "Toss OP".
In regards to the post about all of the potential strategies that become available when you scout two gases in TvP, if you know your timings you can scan whenever you know tech should be going down and you should be able to scout it. A Terran complaining about scouting, seriously?
Finally, I don't really see how this buff impacts Robo all-ins as severely as people are claiming. When you think about it, sure the warp-prism will be faster, but it doesn't build faster, warp units in faster, or switch between transport or warp mode any faster. Most builds have the Warp Prism coming out of the robo after two or three immortals. The build time is still going to be the same, and In most cases you've still got to wait for your army at home to walk to the opponents base if you warped things in at home. The only situation I can see the all-in coming faster is if Protoss built no units and warped only from the warp prism once the prism got to the front and dropped two immortals. The difference in time there is obviously the change in move-speed and would depend on the map, but again the answer to that is knowing what's coming and preparing in advance. If you keep a couple units poking in and out of the Toss front, you can tell if units are being produced/cut and you can scan/sac ovies to know for sure.
In the case of DT drops, the limiting factor in terms of speed isn't how fast your warp prism gets to your opponents base, it's how fast you can build your DT shrine. In the tail's DT drop, for example, the build is currently timed in such a way that the warp prism, at it's current speed, arrives exactly at the main when the shrine finishes. If it gets there any faster, there still wont be any DTs because the shrine is still warping in.
I think it's a fairly minor buff for an upgrade that isn't often purchased. When it was upgraded, it didn't suddenly break the game and mean instant-win for Toss. Whenever we saw it upgraded we knew we were in for more exciting games involving battles on multiple parts of the map. I'm excited for the change and I hope it goes through.
That's very well put.
|
On May 29 2013 03:53 Penguinator wrote:
Can zergs get an overlord speed buff?... Also overlords should be able to heal zerg units. And they should also be able to spawn units... yeah Nonono don't confuse things. Demand speed but nothing more. Everything else is fine:
Terran has heal
Protoss has warp
Zerg has supply - which means they naturally have many "dropships" available and can make doom drops.
|
direct buff to bisu.
do it blizzard.
|
I'm sure this won't go in (without adjustment). It's blizzard's way of reminding protoss players that warp prism speed even exists.
like changing the colour of the blue flame icon just before MLG Anaheim.
|
I think it wont make a difference the units coming out of the prism are no good at harassing except for dts but a turrent will deal with both. zelots are still to slow to catch up to workers and stalkers dps still to low to kill any this would only be good in the late game when you have 10 plus gates and charge but by then might as well pay for the dam upgrade. My two cents (and dam people cry a lot)
|
I find it so boring to watch very fast air-units that will never be catched. I feel like if you want to circumvent the wall/enviroment to get an easy access to your opponent, it should be risky. When I watch speedivacs or mutas nowadays I'm just like "oh cool, he's going to fly in and do some damage before getting out". It would be much more exciting if it was "oh my god he's going to try to fly straight in to the main, and WOW the other player anticipated it and trapped him and killed all the air units!".
It's just so hard to punish really fast air units even if you play really well, since it's nearly impossible to catch them if the player using them is atleast keeping half an eye on them.
|
I've always wondered.... why can't an overlord carry 16lings? Are the lings to op the that deserve the same treatment as the hellbat?
|
Early PvT is slightly P favoured. There, I've said it. Nexus cannon + sentry can hold any early all-in from Terran. While the reverse is not true. Actually, robo-based early all-ins are very powerful against a Terran hoping to hold with bunkers.
Having said this, the overall balance is fine because the mid-game is slightly T favoured. This allows Terrans to start doing enough damage to the Protoss.
With the proposed patch, I fear that PvT early-game will become too powerful - and exploited. I am more in favour of a patch that buffs protoss mid-game. Make the warp-prism speed upgrade cheaper, make it next to nothing - I don't care. But require a robotics bay so that it becomes a factor in the mid-game, not early-game.
TLDR: Buff warp-prism by making the upgrade ridiculously cheap but require robo-bay; don't buff PvT early-game. It will encourage more cheese.
|
On May 29 2013 03:57 Karpfen wrote:
I've always wondered.... why can't an overlord carry 16lings? Are the lings to op the that deserve the same treatment as the hellbat? Cargo space is not the same as supply. Otherwise Tanks would take 3 space instead of 4.
The other particular reason for zerglings is again what I mentioned - Zerg naturally has many many "dropships", because they are the supply providers. Having many dropships means they can load a lot of lings even if the lings take 1 space. Also, overlords are relatively slow compared to other dropships, because with so many of them you can afford a huge doom drop (including empty overlords) and some to be killed. Fits with the whole swarm concept of the race.
|
On May 29 2013 03:51 Apoptotic wrote:
For one, I don't understand why everyone is citing Proleague as an example of Protoss being stronger. I thought it was pretty clear that the current map pool clearly favors Protoss, and this leads to more PvP. Why would you send any other race on a map where Protoss is favored due to the map design? Obviously it is the current highest level of play, but it still can't be taken as "Toss OP".
In regards to the post about all of the potential strategies that become available when you scout two gases in TvP, if you know your timings you can scan whenever you know tech should be going down and you should be able to scout it. A Terran complaining about scouting, seriously?
Finally, I don't really see how this buff impacts Robo all-ins as severely as people are claiming. When you think about it, sure the warp-prism will be faster, but it doesn't build faster, warp units in faster, or switch between transport or warp mode any faster. Most builds have the Warp Prism coming out of the robo after two or three immortals. The build time is still going to be the same, and In most cases you've still got to wait for your army at home to walk to the opponents base if you warped things in at home. The only situation I can see the all-in coming faster is if Protoss built no units and warped only from the warp prism once the prism got to the front and dropped two immortals. The difference in time there is obviously the change in move-speed and would depend on the map, but again the answer to that is knowing what's coming and preparing in advance. If you keep a couple units poking in and out of the Toss front, you can tell if units are being produced/cut and you can scan/sac ovies to know for sure.
In the case of DT drops, the limiting factor in terms of speed isn't how fast your warp prism gets to your opponents base, it's how fast you can build your DT shrine. In the tail's DT drop, for example, the build is currently timed in such a way that the warp prism, at it's current speed, arrives exactly at the main when the shrine finishes. If it gets there any faster, there still wont be any DTs because the shrine is still warping in.
I think it's a fairly minor buff for an upgrade that isn't often purchased. When it was upgraded, it didn't suddenly break the game and mean instant-win for Toss. Whenever we saw it upgraded we knew we were in for more exciting games involving battles on multiple parts of the map. I'm excited for the change and I hope it goes through.
This is basically the only well reasoned and thought out post in the entire thread. Good job.
|
On May 29 2013 04:01 figq wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 03:57 Karpfen wrote:
I've always wondered.... why can't an overlord carry 16lings? Are the lings to op the that deserve the same treatment as the hellbat? Cargo space is not the same as supply. Otherwise Tanks would take 3 space instead of 4.
Thanks for repeating what I said. Still a zergling takes the same cargo space as a marine for no reason.
|
Still, what you warp in, dies there unless templar drops :\
|
On May 29 2013 03:57 Zheryn wrote:
I find it so boring to watch very fast air-units that will never be catched. I feel like if you want to circumvent the wall/enviroment to get an easy access to your opponent, it should be risky. When I watch speedivacs or mutas nowadays I'm just like "oh cool, he's going to fly in and do some damage before getting out". It would be much more exciting if it was "oh my god he's going to try to fly straight in to the main, and WOW the other player anticipated it and trapped him and killed all the air units!".
It's just so hard to punish really fast air units even if you play really well, since it's nearly impossible to catch them if the player using them is atleast keeping half an eye on them.
i find battlecruisers lame as shit ^^
|
On May 29 2013 04:02 Karpfen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 04:01 figq wrote:On May 29 2013 03:57 Karpfen wrote:
I've always wondered.... why can't an overlord carry 16lings? Are the lings to op the that deserve the same treatment as the hellbat? Cargo space is not the same as supply. Otherwise Tanks would take 3 space instead of 4. Thanks for repeating what I said. Still a zergling takes the same cargo space as a marine for no reason.
yeah. i misslike that alot. dunno why, maybe i want to see some effective speedling drops
|
No, please no! Zealot/DT warpins are already so crazy hard to deal with. This will make it so that they can do it earlier and it will make TvP a really hard MU past 2 bases, when it comes to keeping eco up.
|
On May 29 2013 04:02 Karpfen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 04:01 figq wrote:On May 29 2013 03:57 Karpfen wrote:
I've always wondered.... why can't an overlord carry 16lings? Are the lings to op the that deserve the same treatment as the hellbat? Cargo space is not the same as supply. Otherwise Tanks would take 3 space instead of 4. Thanks for repeating what I said. Still a zergling takes the same cargo space as a marine for no reason. No, I'm not repeating what you said - you are defending equalizing supply and cargo which is just not the case in many examples and not just the nerfed hellbats. Also please read the rest of my post which I edited in.
|
The warp prism speed is............. a little bit crazy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
