o.o why would they pick him over basically any other foreign zerg in any of the WCS brackets or even Shoutcraft?_?
have you actually seen him play? go check some VoDs. He is probably the best value pickup (outside of dima) who is a free agent right now
#1 he's talented #2 he's young (16 I think) #3 he's a free agent #4 he's British/Scottish w/e (incredibly biased )
Yes you are incredibly biased.
He is not in the Europe challenger league. He has been pretty bm. He was over-using the broodlord-infestor composition when he was a mid-tier european and couldn't adapt to hots so now he is a low tier European.
o.o why would they pick him over basically any other foreign zerg in any of the WCS brackets or even Shoutcraft?_?
have you actually seen him play? go check some VoDs. He is probably the best value pickup (outside of dima) who is a free agent right now
#1 he's talented #2 he's young (16 I think) #3 he's a free agent #4 he's British/Scottish w/e (incredibly biased )
Yes you are incredibly biased.
He is not in the Europe challenger league. He has been pretty bm. He was over-using the broodlord-infestor composition when he was a mid-tier european and couldn't adapt to hots so now he is a low tier European.
If anything, a player like StarBuck has been doing better than JRecco, though the latter still deserves a spot at least as a talent with a pro team.
On May 14 2013 19:26 onewaystyx wrote: I find it obnoxious to say that he is the best foreigner in sc2 history when he isnt by miles. Success isnt measured in money, but much more in accomplishments.
In that regard jinro is the best foreigner in sc2 history and for me always will be since his lvl of play at that time still hasnt been matched to the day today by any foreigner. Right behind him is idra who just gets mocked by so many people despite him being a living legend and then thered be naniwa with 2 gsl code s ro8 back to back.
Stephano was honestly terrible vs koreans as he proved in his gsl run and winning foreign tournaments means nothing.
Stephano is rated so highly BECAUSE of his wins against Koreans.
If you want to pretend winning foreign tournaments means nothing, then you should not expect to be taken seriously.
people that consider stephano being better than jinro should not be taken seriously. 2 ro4 finishes back to back. Nobody besides him has ever even made it to the ro4. He even beat mc on scrap station using mech. Havent seen that happen even once after him. So stop being a little stephano fan boy and give the actualy foreign legends recognition.
Jinro competed well in an undeveloped metagame. Most of the opponents he faced and beat were not even in the next GSL after his last Ro4 finish. Pretty much all of his opponents that he faced in those two Ro4 finishes are retired or are practically nothing in the scene except for MarineKing and MC. Stephano on the other hand competed in a vastly developed metagame where the bad players of early SC2 were weeded out only leaving the best of the best. Although he doesn't have Ro4 finishes, I'd honestly consider a Ro16 performance in the current GSL much more impressive than a Ro4 showing in the earlier GSLs.
That's no disrespect to the champions of the era like MVP, MC, and NesTea--those were really the only three actually good players of the era as they are only ones of that era that are even still competing. Guys like FruitDealer and Tester were good for the era but in terms of long-term skill they lacked it. To give you a good idea of how undeveloped the meta was at the time, FruitDealer won the first ever GSL basically off of pure cheese and all-ins. Even his "macro" games were "cheesy" where he took massive risks by overproducing drones to gain an advantage. He relied on trickery rather than actual mechanics and skill.
You don't know what you're talking about. Taeja, Polt, Maru, Losira, Byun, Genius, Zenio, San, Leenock, Jjakji, Sound, Inca, sC, Vines, Golden, Squirtle, Gumiho, Alive are just some of the people that were playing in the GSL open seasons in 2010.
edit: extending this to the first two GSL seasons of 2011, in which Jinro had a Ro4 and a Ro16, we get some more players: Killer, Ace, Top, Line, YuGiOh, MMA, Coca, Noblesse, Curious, Alicia, Losira, Supernova, Ganzi, Revival, and this is not counting players like Nada, Boxer, July.
But were they top players at the time as they are now? (2010 to early 2011) They weren't. Stephano was actually playing SC2 around this time as well yet nobody knew him. I only named those three because not only were they competing back then and now, but also they were the best of their era. All those players you listed are indeed competing now but they were nowhere near the best during the early part of SC2. MVP, NesTea, and MC have been around the top or considered top players since that time AND now.
I literally picked GSL participants, do you really want to argue that those players weren't any good back then?
They were good but at that time they weren't as good as MVP, NesTea, and MC. BitByBitPrime was more known at the time than those players you mentioned. And he was complete shit. No argument about that one. BoxeR, NaDa, FruitDealer, Tester (Trickster), etc. were all better than those players at the time and they all barely lasted a year in the scene. The competition at the time was quite literally a farce. Only during the Summer of 2011 did the rest of the players finally catch up to the three. Hell, one can argue the competition was still a farce until the KeSPA players came in. KeSPA has literally made the competition rise up a shit ton of notches. If I were to name the Top 20 players, more than half of them would be from KeSPA to be honest.
Get perspective. BitbyBit was more known than those other guys because he all-inned by pulling SCV's nearly every game, eliminating some of the more popular players at the time with it. In fact, when you see Innovation pull his SCV's to blast through another Protoss with a 200/200 bio ball, the root of that strategy was from BitbyBit.
I don't think you can call competition a "farce" because it isn't as developed as today, that doesn't make any sense. Fruitdealer won by trickery; so what? That means he was incredibly smart, not that the play level sucked back then. TBH if I took you back in time and had you play any of those players the other guy named they would mop the floor with you 100 times in a row. Those players didn't last not because of their lack of skills but for various personal reasons.
PS. Stephano<Nani<HuK<Jinro is my order of foreigners, mainly based on how far they made into Code S. Stephano had the opportunity and momentum to really make an impact and he failed, I don't think it's fair to compare him to guys who went through the Ro64 Open seasons where every loss meant you had to re-qualify up to a stupid round like Ro16, or guys who stayed in Code S for many seasons(huk/nani).
But here's the thing. BitByBit was able get into the Ro16 AND CODE S off of PURE SCV-marine all-ins. I think that gives you a good idea of just how lacking the competition was back then.
I don't think you can call competition a "farce" because it isn't as developed as today
That does make sense. Players that do things that won't even work to get you past Code A qualifiers were using them to win GSL tournaments.
TBH if I took you back in time and had you play any of those players the other guy named they would mop the floor with you 100 times in a row. Those players didn't last not because of their lack of skills but for various personal reasons.
Well no shit of course they're better than me. Did I ever say I was better than them? I hate it when people use that argument. That logic would literally mean that NOBODY except pro players are not able to critique pro players. Nobody complains when Tastosis and other casters critique pro players. Nobody complains when sports analysts critique sports athletes. Hell, BitByBitPrime is probably better than me. He's still shit compared to other current pro players.
PS. Stephano<Nani<HuK<Jinro is my order of foreigners, mainly based on how far they made into Code S. Stephano had the opportunity and momentum to really make an impact and he failed, I don't think it's fair to compare him to guys who went through the Ro64 Open seasons where every loss meant you had to re-qualify up to a stupid round like Ro16, or guys who stayed in Code S for many seasons(huk/nani).
It's interesting to note that in an undeveloped metagame guys like IdrA and Jinro were able to qualify however when the meta started evolving NO FOREIGNER was able to qualify for GSL except via invites. IdrA and Jinro were certainly great players, but most of their early achievements really came due to a lack of competition.
And if it's such an issue to you, then don't even talk about GSL. Talk about non-GSL tournaments where clearly Stephano had the edge. Of course doing well in the GSL is much more impressive than doing well at an international tournament, the fact of the matter is that those players were not able compete even in a dumbed-down environment while Stephano thrived in it.
On May 14 2013 05:29 JimmyJRaynor wrote: he realizes the over all prize money is going down hill. Smart exit by him.
No. He already announced he was in it to make money to fund his schooling/living expenses. Now that he has accumulated those funds he plans on continuing with his education. I believe he has the intent to study medicine in his future, not 100% sure though.
On May 14 2013 05:29 JimmyJRaynor wrote: he realizes the over all prize money is going down hill. Smart exit by him.
No. He already announced he was in it to make money to fund his schooling/living expenses. Now that he has accumulated those funds he plans on continuing with his education. I believe he has the intent to study medicine in his future, not 100% sure though.
On May 14 2013 19:26 onewaystyx wrote: I find it obnoxious to say that he is the best foreigner in sc2 history when he isnt by miles. Success isnt measured in money, but much more in accomplishments.
In that regard jinro is the best foreigner in sc2 history and for me always will be since his lvl of play at that time still hasnt been matched to the day today by any foreigner. Right behind him is idra who just gets mocked by so many people despite him being a living legend and then thered be naniwa with 2 gsl code s ro8 back to back.
Stephano was honestly terrible vs koreans as he proved in his gsl run and winning foreign tournaments means nothing.
Stephano is rated so highly BECAUSE of his wins against Koreans.
If you want to pretend winning foreign tournaments means nothing, then you should not expect to be taken seriously.
people that consider stephano being better than jinro should not be taken seriously. 2 ro4 finishes back to back. Nobody besides him has ever even made it to the ro4. He even beat mc on scrap station using mech. Havent seen that happen even once after him. So stop being a little stephano fan boy and give the actualy foreign legends recognition.
Jinro competed well in an undeveloped metagame. Most of the opponents he faced and beat were not even in the next GSL after his last Ro4 finish. Pretty much all of his opponents that he faced in those two Ro4 finishes are retired or are practically nothing in the scene except for MarineKing and MC. Stephano on the other hand competed in a vastly developed metagame where the bad players of early SC2 were weeded out only leaving the best of the best. Although he doesn't have Ro4 finishes, I'd honestly consider a Ro16 performance in the current GSL much more impressive than a Ro4 showing in the earlier GSLs.
That's no disrespect to the champions of the era like MVP, MC, and NesTea--those were really the only three actually good players of the era as they are only ones of that era that are even still competing. Guys like FruitDealer and Tester were good for the era but in terms of long-term skill they lacked it. To give you a good idea of how undeveloped the meta was at the time, FruitDealer won the first ever GSL basically off of pure cheese and all-ins. Even his "macro" games were "cheesy" where he took massive risks by overproducing drones to gain an advantage. He relied on trickery rather than actual mechanics and skill.
You don't know what you're talking about. Taeja, Polt, Maru, Losira, Byun, Genius, Zenio, San, Leenock, Jjakji, Sound, Inca, sC, Vines, Golden, Squirtle, Gumiho, Alive are just some of the people that were playing in the GSL open seasons in 2010.
edit: extending this to the first two GSL seasons of 2011, in which Jinro had a Ro4 and a Ro16, we get some more players: Killer, Ace, Top, Line, YuGiOh, MMA, Coca, Noblesse, Curious, Alicia, Losira, Supernova, Ganzi, Revival, and this is not counting players like Nada, Boxer, July.
But were they top players at the time as they are now? (2010 to early 2011) They weren't. Stephano was actually playing SC2 around this time as well yet nobody knew him. I only named those three because not only were they competing back then and now, but also they were the best of their era. All those players you listed are indeed competing now but they were nowhere near the best during the early part of SC2. MVP, NesTea, and MC have been around the top or considered top players since that time AND now.
I literally picked GSL participants, do you really want to argue that those players weren't any good back then?
They were good but at that time they weren't as good as MVP, NesTea, and MC. BitByBitPrime was more known at the time than those players you mentioned. And he was complete shit. No argument about that one. BoxeR, NaDa, FruitDealer, Tester (Trickster), etc. were all better than those players at the time and they all barely lasted a year in the scene. The competition at the time was quite literally a farce. Only during the Summer of 2011 did the rest of the players finally catch up to the three. Hell, one can argue the competition was still a farce until the KeSPA players came in. KeSPA has literally made the competition rise up a shit ton of notches. If I were to name the Top 20 players, more than half of them would be from KeSPA to be honest.
Get perspective. BitbyBit was more known than those other guys because he all-inned by pulling SCV's nearly every game, eliminating some of the more popular players at the time with it. In fact, when you see Innovation pull his SCV's to blast through another Protoss with a 200/200 bio ball, the root of that strategy was from BitbyBit.
I don't think you can call competition a "farce" because it isn't as developed as today, that doesn't make any sense. Fruitdealer won by trickery; so what? That means he was incredibly smart, not that the play level sucked back then. TBH if I took you back in time and had you play any of those players the other guy named they would mop the floor with you 100 times in a row. Those players didn't last not because of their lack of skills but for various personal reasons.
PS. Stephano<Nani<HuK<Jinro is my order of foreigners, mainly based on how far they made into Code S. Stephano had the opportunity and momentum to really make an impact and he failed, I don't think it's fair to compare him to guys who went through the Ro64 Open seasons where every loss meant you had to re-qualify up to a stupid round like Ro16, or guys who stayed in Code S for many seasons(huk/nani).
But here's the thing. BitByBit was able get into the Ro16 AND CODE S off of PURE SCV-marine all-ins. I think that gives you a good idea of just how lacking the competition was back then.
TBH if I took you back in time and had you play any of those players the other guy named they would mop the floor with you 100 times in a row. Those players didn't last not because of their lack of skills but for various personal reasons.
Well no shit of course they're better than me. Did I ever say I was better than them? I hate it when people use that argument. That logic would literally mean that NOBODY except pro players are not able to critique pro players. Nobody complains when Tastosis and other casters critique pro players. Nobody complains when sports analysts critique sports athletes. Hell, BitByBitPrime is probably better than me. He's still shit compared to other current pro players.
PS. Stephano<Nani<HuK<Jinro is my order of foreigners, mainly based on how far they made into Code S. Stephano had the opportunity and momentum to really make an impact and he failed, I don't think it's fair to compare him to guys who went through the Ro64 Open seasons where every loss meant you had to re-qualify up to a stupid round like Ro16, or guys who stayed in Code S for many seasons(huk/nani).
It's interesting to note that in an undeveloped metagame guys like IdrA and Jinro were able to qualify however when the meta started evolving NO FOREIGNER was able to qualify for GSL except via invites. IdrA and Jinro were certainly great players, but most of their early achievements really came due to a lack of competition.
And if it's such an issue to you, then don't even talk about GSL. Talk about non-GSL tournaments where clearly Stephano had the edge. Of course doing well in the GSL is much more impressive than doing well at an international tournament, the fact of the matter is that those players were not able compete even in a dumbed-down environment while Stephano thrived in it.
Doesn't really show the competition was lacking at all, hell even today you see SCV pulls, the roots of that tactic was based in BitbyBit's success. It's just that at the time the players there were not used to a bunch of marines+scv's rolling into their base at 4:30, whereas now if you see the tell-tale signs of a 4:30 bitbybit you know exactly what to do to defend, so the meta-game(not the player's skill, or the competition) evolved to take this into account.
And I don't like to talk about anything but Korean competition because IMO that is where competion is a farce, MLG in it's current format is akin to the ladder, and we all know Stephano plays a playstyle that is suited to that(doesn't prepare for his opponents etc), so i'm not surprised he does ok there.
Well when one door closes, another opens. I agree that it will be hard to "replace" good ol' Steph in terms of skill and rockstar status. But on the other hand, it will give another gamer(s) huge oppoortunities.
On June 21 2013 16:06 Sinedd wrote: no passion in this kid..
sad ;<
Really? I don't like the guy, I find him to be arrogant, egotistical and to be making one too many bad jokes all the time.
That said his determination and vision to fund a career in medicine is outstanding and he should be applauded for the PASSION for his future career and the PASSION he invested into SC2 to achieve his goal.
Doesn't really show the competition was lacking at all, hell even today you see SCV pulls, the roots of that tactic was based in BitbyBit's success. It's just that at the time the players there were not used to a bunch of marines+scv's rolling into their base at 4:30, whereas now if you see the tell-tale signs of a 4:30 bitbybit you know exactly what to do to defend, so the meta-game(not the player's skill, or the competition) evolved to take this into account.
And I don't like to talk about anything but Korean competition because IMO that is where competion is a farce, MLG in it's current format is akin to the ladder, and we all know Stephano plays a playstyle that is suited to that(doesn't prepare for his opponents etc), so i'm not surprised he does ok there.
Don't be stupid. Of course the competition was lacking. In the same way that Boxer's accomplishments might peg him as equally as talented as Flash, but skillwise there is a monumental gap.
The reason we don't see bitbybits are not metagame shifts, but patches.
And how do you have the nerve to disregard MLG format. I guess OSL is/was always a farce as well since they play BO1s. It's not the format, but the quality of competition that makes a victory something worth of respect.
You said 3 things and you were painstakingly obviously wrong on all 3 of them. Can you please stop trying to veil your dislike for stephano with attempts at logic and just ignore the existence of this thread altogether? Thank you.
Doesn't really show the competition was lacking at all, hell even today you see SCV pulls, the roots of that tactic was based in BitbyBit's success. It's just that at the time the players there were not used to a bunch of marines+scv's rolling into their base at 4:30, whereas now if you see the tell-tale signs of a 4:30 bitbybit you know exactly what to do to defend, so the meta-game(not the player's skill, or the competition) evolved to take this into account.
And I don't like to talk about anything but Korean competition because IMO that is where competion is a farce, MLG in it's current format is akin to the ladder, and we all know Stephano plays a playstyle that is suited to that(doesn't prepare for his opponents etc), so i'm not surprised he does ok there.
Don't be stupid. Of course the competition was lacking. In the same way that Boxer's accomplishments might peg him as equally as talented as Flash, but skillwise there is a monumental gap.
The reason we don't see bitbybits are not metagame shifts, but patches.
And how do you have the nerve to disregard MLG format. I guess OSL is/was always a farce as well since they play BO1s. It's not the format, but the quality of competition that makes a victory something worth of respect.
You said 3 things and you were painstakingly obviously wrong on all 3 of them. Can you please stop trying to veil your dislike for stephano with attempts at logic and just ignore the existence of this thread altogether? Thank you.
Your post is so distasteful and your lack of understanding of competitive mentalities, as well as specific SC2 strategies, plain to see.
Skillwise there is a monumental gap between Boxer and Flash only because Boxer's successors took the skills that Boxer and his generation had honed and built upon it. If you look at the Olympic records it's pretty clear to see that athletes(even cyberatheletes) improve over time as techniques and strategies are perfected, counter-strategies are developed, and mechanics become even more refined or perfected. By your broken logic, the Olympic games of the past have all been a farce because the competition was not as good as today. All you have to do is find sports records' that have yet to be broken and look at how highly regarded that achievement is.
By your logic WW2 is a farce compared to the War in Afghanistan simply because today everybody knows how to kill each other so much better that it shows how terrible classic military strategy was. Whereas if you had done any military history study, you would know that the historians regard tactics such as cavalry and trench warfare as having been rendered obsolete by following developments, in much the way SC2 plays are made obsolete by the evolving meta-game every day.
Learn the difference between a "farce" and being "obsolete" please. Definition of a farce(thx to thefreedictionary) farce (färs) n. 1. a. A light dramatic work in which highly improbable plot situations, exaggerated characters, and often slapstick elements are used for humorous effect. b. The branch of literature constituting such works. c. The broad or spirited humor characteristic of such works. 2. A ludicrous, empty show; a mockery: The fixed election was a farce. 3. A seasoned stuffing, as for roasted turkey. tr.v. farced, farc·ing, farc·es 1. To pad (a speech, for example) with jokes or witticisms. 2. To stuff, as for roasting.
So how in any way was the Open Seasons of GSL a "ludicrous, empty show; a mockery". Yes there were games we can mock from those times but in general you cannot say that the competition was a "mockery", it was simply an undeveloped, brand spanking new game with players from all walks of pro-RTS giving it a shot, a melting pot from which our first true greats rose.
And frankly if you call games from 2010 a mockery now then you cannot consider today's games any differently because in 3 years you will look back on current games and the strategies will still seem as out of date to you as 2010 strats do today.
Also which patch got rid of 4:30 marine scv exactly? You clearly have no idea about WTF we are discussing, as anyone with a brain knows that you can easily go on the ladder today and hit high masters doing nothing but marine/scv 4:30 rushes, nothing has been patched to break that strat(if you regard an extra 5 second rax build time or the bunker nerf as effecting this strat in anyway, you have no idea how to execute it correctly).
The reason the marine/scv is RARE(but not extinct) in current competitive scenes but was common and powerful in early GSL is that those predecessors I was talking about realized that by adding SCVS as a meat shield to your high-DPS marines and hitting at the key 4:30 mark before the opponent is likely to be prepared for a rush at all, you would have a significant 1 fight advantage over your opponent where you could break him. Players were unprepared for these strats at the time because it was a NEW strat, the same way you might think today that some of the builds you see in GSL are really cool when they surprise the opponent completely.
However once guys like BitbyBit showed the build too much, people learned to read and respond to it, it is a build that relies on complete secrecy, and trickery only works for so long until it is figured out. Today the meta-game has adapted, and people know that if you scout 1rax that finishes early with lower than usual worker counts, to watch out for this strat, which is easy to confirm by having a scouting unit wait on the map to see the swarm of SCVS and marines, thus the strat became less popular.
You cannot base the competition being a farce based on the potency of a deadly but cheesy and easily scoutable all-in that players were not prepared for.
Finally about the Stephano comments; I have no "dislike" for Stephano. Do I think his attitude sucks and I wish he would stick with it atleast until he started to fall off? Yes. Do I rate him number 4 on my Foreigner GSL powerrank? yes. Doesn't mean I hate him.
Please leave me and this thread alone if all your going to do is hurl generalities, insults and putting opinion's in other people's mouths. Thank you.
Edit: And about the MLG thing. Yes I think MLG open brackets are a joke. It's an off-line version of a GO4SC2 tournament. I don't think OSL is a joke because 1. every player in the OSL qualified to be there and is highly skilled 2. the Bo1 round isn't a "side-pot" to which the winners are added to the main tournament and 3. Atleast the OSL format has a "group stage BO1" style rather than a double elimination BO1 with 512+ players in it.
If your going to host an open bracket tournament, IMO you should everyone in the tournament go through it. Everything else is ridiculously orientated into protecting established players from unknown quantities.
On June 21 2013 16:06 Sinedd wrote: no passion in this kid..
sad ;<
Really? I don't like the guy, I find him to be arrogant, egotistical and to be making one too many bad jokes all the time.
That said his determination and vision to fund a career in medicine is outstanding and he should be applauded for the PASSION for his future career and the PASSION he invested into SC2 to achieve his goal.
most recently he said he wants to be an engineer now
Doesn't really show the competition was lacking at all, hell even today you see SCV pulls, the roots of that tactic was based in BitbyBit's success. It's just that at the time the players there were not used to a bunch of marines+scv's rolling into their base at 4:30, whereas now if you see the tell-tale signs of a 4:30 bitbybit you know exactly what to do to defend, so the meta-game(not the player's skill, or the competition) evolved to take this into account.
And I don't like to talk about anything but Korean competition because IMO that is where competion is a farce, MLG in it's current format is akin to the ladder, and we all know Stephano plays a playstyle that is suited to that(doesn't prepare for his opponents etc), so i'm not surprised he does ok there.
Don't be stupid. Of course the competition was lacking. In the same way that Boxer's accomplishments might peg him as equally as talented as Flash, but skillwise there is a monumental gap.
The reason we don't see bitbybits are not metagame shifts, but patches.
And how do you have the nerve to disregard MLG format. I guess OSL is/was always a farce as well since they play BO1s. It's not the format, but the quality of competition that makes a victory something worth of respect.
You said 3 things and you were painstakingly obviously wrong on all 3 of them. Can you please stop trying to veil your dislike for stephano with attempts at logic and just ignore the existence of this thread altogether? Thank you.
Your post is so distasteful and your lack of understanding of competitive mentalities, as well as specific SC2 strategies, plain to see.
Skillwise there is a monumental gap between Boxer and Flash only because Boxer's successors took the skills that Boxer and his generation had honed and built upon it. If you look at the Olympic records it's pretty clear to see that athletes(even cyberatheletes) improve over time as techniques and strategies are perfected, counter-strategies are developed, and mechanics become even more refined or perfected. By your broken logic, the Olympic games of the past have all been a farce because the competition was not as good as today. All you have to do is find sports records' that have yet to be broken and look at how highly regarded that achievement is.
By your logic WW2 is a farce compared to the War in Afghanistan simply because today everybody knows how to kill each other so much better that it shows how terrible classic military strategy was. Whereas if you had done any military history study, you would know that the historians regard tactics such as cavalry and trench warfare as having been rendered obsolete by following developments, in much the way SC2 plays are made obsolete by the evolving meta-game every day.
Learn the difference between a "farce" and being "obsolete" please. Definition of a farce(thx to thefreedictionary) farce (färs) n. 1. a. A light dramatic work in which highly improbable plot situations, exaggerated characters, and often slapstick elements are used for humorous effect. b. The branch of literature constituting such works. c. The broad or spirited humor characteristic of such works. 2. A ludicrous, empty show; a mockery: The fixed election was a farce. 3. A seasoned stuffing, as for roasted turkey. tr.v. farced, farc·ing, farc·es 1. To pad (a speech, for example) with jokes or witticisms. 2. To stuff, as for roasting.
So how in any way was the Open Seasons of GSL a "ludicrous, empty show; a mockery". Yes there were games we can mock from those times but in general you cannot say that the competition was a "mockery", it was simply an undeveloped, brand spanking new game with players from all walks of pro-RTS giving it a shot, a melting pot from which our first true greats rose.
And frankly if you call games from 2010 a mockery now then you cannot consider today's games any differently because in 3 years you will look back on current games and the strategies will still seem as out of date to you as 2010 strats do today.
Also which patch got rid of 4:30 marine scv exactly? You clearly have no idea about WTF we are discussing, as anyone with a brain knows that you can easily go on the ladder today and hit high masters doing nothing but marine/scv 4:30 rushes, nothing has been patched to break that strat(if you regard an extra 5 second rax build time or the bunker nerf as effecting this strat in anyway, you have no idea how to execute it correctly).
The reason the marine/scv is RARE(but not extinct) in current competitive scenes but was common and powerful in early GSL is that those predecessors I was talking about realized that by adding SCVS as a meat shield to your high-DPS marines and hitting at the key 4:30 mark before the opponent is likely to be prepared for a rush at all, you would have a significant 1 fight advantage over your opponent where you could break him. Players were unprepared for these strats at the time because it was a NEW strat, the same way you might think today that some of the builds you see in GSL are really cool when they surprise the opponent completely.
However once guys like BitbyBit showed the build too much, people learned to read and respond to it, it is a build that relies on complete secrecy, and trickery only works for so long until it is figured out. Today the meta-game has adapted, and people know that if you scout 1rax that finishes early with lower than usual worker counts, to watch out for this strat, which is easy to confirm by having a scouting unit wait on the map to see the swarm of SCVS and marines, thus the strat became less popular.
You cannot base the competition being a farce based on the potency of a deadly but cheesy and easily scoutable all-in that players were not prepared for.
Finally about the Stephano comments; I have no "dislike" for Stephano. Do I think his attitude sucks and I wish he would stick with it atleast until he started to fall off? Yes. Do I rate him number 4 on my Foreigner GSL powerrank? yes. Doesn't mean I hate him.
Please leave me and this thread alone if all your going to do is hurl generalities, insults and putting opinion's in other people's mouths. Thank you.
Edit: And about the MLG thing. Yes I think MLG open brackets are a joke. It's an off-line version of a GO4SC2 tournament. I don't think OSL is a joke because 1. every player in the OSL qualified to be there and is highly skilled 2. the Bo1 round isn't a "side-pot" to which the winners are added to the main tournament and 3. Atleast the OSL format has a "group stage BO1" style rather than a double elimination BO1 with 512+ players in it.
If your going to host an open bracket tournament, IMO you should everyone in the tournament go through it. Everything else is ridiculously orientated into protecting established players from unknown quantities.
Take this to PM or something please. It is offtopic and a huge bait to derail this topic.
The volatility that Stephano has brought to the scene, the sense that he is a dangerous player (for example, no one else to my knowledge has ever spawned two hate-motivated Day nine dailies: the roach max episode, and the "I hate this swarm host style daily," nor, definitively has any foreigner consistently competed with good korean players) has always been part of the deal. We either love his insouciance: that sense that he doesn't really take the game seriously, or we hate him for thinking that he's better than this thing we all take so seriously and yet don't do better them him at. In other words, Stephano is kind of 1950's Elvis to our relatively Bing Crosby-ish game/website. And, though it makes me sad to see him go, as a rock and roller, I can appreciate that this meteoric trajectory was always sort of going to crash back down to earth. The fact that he's leaving will make a lot of fans miss him, but in a sense, that makes it the perfect time to go. He leaves before we can ever get to that point (promised since October 2011) that his style will be "figured out." He goes out flummoxing our expectations as always. Thanks for playing, Ilyes Satouri. We don't have a replacement for you.
EPT
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