On May 10 2013 11:01 Jornada wrote: Everybody who EG signs goes down hill....
IdrA needs time away from game i think as well.
yeah just like suppy & demuslim right?
Just because suppy did good in one group doesn't make up for his overall results which are basically none. Demuslim is NA's favourite, that's about it. Lackluster skill, as soon as he meets a Korean on ladder you can see how silly of a player his is.
Yes as "soon" as Demuslim meets Koreans he loses.
Any other facts you'd like to pull out of your ass? Demuslim beats Polt all the time in TvT, Hyun, lots of good Koreans. Alot of them are barcodes as well.
He recently destroyed some Chinese players as well. The only player he has difficulty with seemingly is Byun. I doubt that he's alone in that.
Demuslim is improving but he's not that level to compete with Koreans yet. And no he doesn't beat Polt all the time, he won like may 3-4 games out of a ton.
Not at the level to compete with Koreans . . . watching his stream, I'd have to disagree. He beats Koreans regulary. Not as often as he beats foreigners of course. His win-rate minus the 16 Byun games in a row is literally 80% or above in all match ups on ladder. Ranked #1 GM on NA consistently. Koreans play on NA with relatively low lag. Evidence backs up the claim that he can compete with Koreans at this time.
Yes but no one these days use ladder as a measure, and being ranked 1 GM in NA doesn't mean you can compete with the Koreans. I'm hopeful on his improvement and all, but right now where would he rank among all Koreans? Because realistically I don't see him as Code A in Korea. That's more about how far ahead Korea is than anything else though.
He's maybe Code A. On a good day. For whatever reason he only gets rolled by ByuN and Polt, he beats HyuN and most other barcodes regularly, about even on matches.
He also played Suppy, who went 2-0 series his group against Ryung and Heart, and beat him almost every game like 20 games in a row to help him practice. I agree it's hard to tell how he compares to the Koreans without actually being in Korea, but I suspect he's better at this time than you're giving him credit for.
On May 10 2013 11:20 TheProphet_ wrote: Thank god! I hated EG for supporting such a terrible and negative person who spent his time spilling hatred and bad vibes around. If he was any good it might justify keeping him but its been years since he could even beat anyone. Now i can be neutral towards EG.
"Any good" being the best american player for several years.
I never understood the SC2 community's mindset on player skill.
Even at his peak, this was debatable. He hasn't done will in a major event in two years.
at his peak he was one of the best sc2 players, not just foreigners.
That makes me laugh. FruitDealer has left the building everyone!
just because it was early in the game doesnt mean he wasn't one of the best. come on man.
Those players were easily forgettable though is the point I was trying to make.
kind of a random point....
Not really considering we talking about a period where there was a ridiculous amount of change & that's where Greg made his mark so to speak. It flew right by just like vanilla SC beta and all the B.net ladder movement we had within the first year.
Not at all comparable to ''vanilla SC beta''. XD The early SC2 era was far more progressed than the SC1 equivalent. There was already a well established scene, with players who had been playing the successor professionally for many years, and there was a vast amount of knowledge that carried over from the 10+ years of BW metagame evolution.
Sure it was. It was easily forgettable because of how stupid vanilla SC was back then and you had to know where to look back then. Doesn't mean the scene wasn't established because it was. As for the knowledge base. It was good times because you actually had to be in the frigging scene to know what was going down. Not a whole lot of outsiders. No, siree Bob.
On May 10 2013 11:25 StevenWang wrote: I heard from a close friend of Katy Torg that he has hit her and got physical with her. He needs mental help, and it is clear as day. EG cannot help him, they tried. Even hired a psychiatrist for him.
I'm sorry, but what you are saying is totally unfounded without proof. This goes even further than the ranting that has gone on in this thread. This is a crime. If you are claiming this actually happened, proof, police, and get it sorted. Even better, dont bring it up in the first place on a forum with thousands of readers. This is just fabrication unless there is proof. And like i said, its a crime, so proof should go to police, not to here.
Did I state it as fact? No. Did it come from MY mouth, no. I stated he has a mental problem. Anyone that calls people faggot, and breaks things over a game is mentally not stable. It's a video game bro...
You need to stop.
People in every sport have outbursts and get upset. They get upset because they care, even though they are just playing games. SC2 is no different.
Take a look at this:
And you can find outbursts from players in every sport. People BM all the time on ladder. Doesn't mean they aren't stable.
IdrA had help from a sports psychologist, not a psychologist. There is a massive difference.
Just about everything that you wrote is despicable. In fact, you should just be banned.
There's a big difference here I feel important to comment on. You can't allow your anger to constantly affect your performance either in a game of starcraft or a NASCAR race.
Players get mad after games/races or any competitions all the time. You won't see Kurt Busch parking his car halfway through a race because a couple guys pass him. He'll carry on and try his best because he has fans watching and rooting for him, sponsors to please and an obligation to try his best since he works in an entertainment industry. IdrA on the other hand gets upset in games to a point where he disregards any form of professionalism and quite frankly allows his anger to impede on his performance which is going to get you nowhere fast in any industry, entertainment or not.
On May 10 2013 11:44 ticklishmusic wrote: Underperforming and rude worker gets fired from job.
Almost sounds like real life doesn't it.
mind = blown
I wouldn't consider Idra under performing at all. Look at the news of his departure and everything else he has going. Idra was an entertainer. His slip up, was coming out and making it sound as if EG was paying him for just that, while being over the top rude to the community.
No i accept that we are all of human nature and we all have our flaws. Some have less flaws some have more, nobody is perfect. Nobody is the ideal human being and most of the stuff you see in public of famous athlets is only because the public wants them to be that way, not the person itself wants to behave that way. That is oppression for me. Someone using force on another person to behave in a different way because otherwise he/she has to face consequences, and losing a job is a big consequence and not just a slap on the wrist. But people outside have an easy time to see heads roll because they are not in that situation. I dislike a lot of players in the sc2 community for whatever reason, but the last thing i d do is msg their sponsors and get them kicked out of a team. Unlike you i dont want everybody to be a faceless PCcreature that wirtes "gg" everytime and follows the society becaue they have to instead of being themselves.
1) i never say gg, lies and slander
2) there's a distinct irony in you saying there is no ideal human/society under the ID sokrates
3) part of the implicit social contract of being a celebrity is that you don't be a douche, or if you do, you produce results. I guess idra probably could have continued on if he won WCS AM, otherwise this was written in the stars.
4) your "argument" from what people apparently want to behave like rests on an incredibly flimsy assumption to the point where it ceases to be an argument and is just an opinion. you also made this same argument last year that is still suffering from the same pathetic fallacy, i.e. what about his feelings maaaaaaaaaaaan?!. I don't give a shit about his feelings or his intent, like just about any adult I care about his results and what he shows, and what he continues to show is that he doesn't belong in a growing scene skill-wise or attitude-wise. sorry fans, I feel worse for you than I do for idra, who is a perfectly capable individual who isn't going to be on the street because of this.
1. Same here or very rarely.
2. I used to call me little brother ironically sokrates, but then i liked the nick for myself.
3. So you say "act like a douche all you want if you bring in results." Interesting view.
4. If you only care about results, why the fuck do you care when somebody says something offensive? And by that standard nobody should give a fuck about the NA scene at all because nobody produces the results that acutally justify barely any attention at all. By that standard we should only care about the korean scene and a handfull of foreigners.
saying that you can be offensive, produce results and still be okay isn't a preference of mine so much as it is an admission that amazingly shitty people exist with dedicated fanbases, but most of the time those people have specific situations where they have skills that they can use to justify that behavior.
at the end of the day, anybody in the public eye is nothing but their image or reputation, and that image is comprised of many things but two of them are results and the personal beliefs/actions of the player that produces those results. not only are idra's public statements a result, but they factor in importantly to the question of whether he remains a viable player to support when it's basically his results against his negative PR. exactly like destiny, idra's bullshit overbalances what he brings to the table, and he's gone after who knows how much money invested to try and reform him.
honestly, I don't really support or care about the NA scene as is. the changes that the NA scene needs to make are structural, not fanbase-related (sooooo many people want it to succeed), so until then, I basically agree with your accusation.
And now here we have the hypocrisy, people don not only care about results otherwise there would be little money in the foreign scence at all. People care about storylines but then say "he doesnt have to results to back up his behaviour". Same is true for you, you say you only care about results and barely for the NA scene at all, but everytime a "mediocre" player fucks up you are there to grab your pitchfork. Why would you even care at all? Because you are the same dramaqueen that i am yet you are in denial.
On May 10 2013 11:46 skatblast wrote: Imagine this, IdrA switches races to terran where he is an absolute mechanical beast, he plays in solitude for a few weeks on a barcode for 12+ hours a day perfecting his craft. He reemerges as Idrajit the new and improved IdrA, moves to korea to rejoin CJ Entus and becomes once again thee foreign powerhouse.
One can only dream. goodluck idra please dont leave the scene for good.
Something along those lines would be so amazingly awesome.
Unfortunately amazingly unlikely. =/
Even if a player has good mechanics there's a whole lot more to it. Like your star sense and being able to keep your composure under pressure.
On May 10 2013 09:27 Tz1k1 wrote: Honestly think EG made a mistake here.
IdrA is the only reason i personally followed anything to do with EG, their other players or InControl's shitty jokes.
IdrA made EG, and to be honest its called EVIL Genius. Bad mouthing people is kinda of in the name. frankly the community has been slamming idra everytime i see his streams, so what if he snaps and hits back? isnt he entitled to? bot he and everyone else knows he isnt "paid" to bad mouth the community, but he is paid to be a member of it, and when the community bad mouths him, the same community he's paid to interact with, the same community that either loves or hates him for his bad manners. Then no matter how you look at it, he IS paid to bad mouth people. Its how he's been recognised, its how he brought EG to be noticed, and its what we expect of him.
in all sincerity i hope to see Greg stay in the sc2 scene as a Pro Gamer, and i hope he destroys everyone in EG he faces. There are only about 2 people in EG worth keeping. Geoff and Bryce suck (result wise).
Great you followed EG only because of IdrA. Other people, more levelheaded and interested in someone's skill and results than how BM they are followed Eg because they had actual good players who were actually competitive. IdrA, in the pro scene, is not good nor is he competitive anymore. He couldn't get top 16 GM for SHOUTcraft in NA. Long way from someone who was a top foreigner in 2011. He doesn't produce results and he hasn't accomplished anything besides giving the proverbial finger to the entire community in at least six months.
Goodbye IdrA. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
E-sports, and in fact any sport, is primarily about entertainment. and Idra entertaind with his bad manners. the only reason people make money in sports is because it entertains the fans / community.
as for results, how many result has incontrol gotten? huk? machine? Incontrol doesnt win a damn thing or even place that well in them. by your logic he should be dropped to, but he isnt. because for some reason people like him.
Because IncontroL is a smart, funny guy and is very entertaining.
Hell its about time. The guy is arrogant, self righteous, rude and disrespectful. Maybe he'll grow up a little after all the dust settles. Good move EG, there are plenty of mature and respectful players to take his place.
There's a big difference here I feel important to comment on. You can't allow your anger to constantly affect your performance either in a game of starcraft or a NASCAR race.
Players get mad after games/races or any competitions all the time. You won't see Kurt Busch parking his car halfway through a race because a couple guys pass him. He'll carry on and try his best because he has fans watching and rooting for him, sponsors to please and an obligation to try his best since he works in an entertainment industry. IdrA on the other hand gets upset in games to a point where he disregards any form of professionalism and quite frankly allows his anger to impede on his performance which is going to get you nowhere fast in any industry, entertainment or not.
I'm requoting this because it's an excellent point/rebuttal
On May 10 2013 11:57 Sokrates wrote:
And now here we have the hypocrisy, people don not only care about results otherwise there would be little money in the foreign scence at all. People care about storylines but then say "he doesnt have to results to back up his behaviour". Same is true for you, you say you only care about results and barely for the NA scene at all, but everytime a "mediocre" player fucks up you are there to grab your pitchfork. Why would you even care at all? Because you are the same dramaqueen that i am yet you are in denial.
- I didn't say people do only care about results, only that they should heavily be taken into account before mythologizing mediocre players. it's not a contradiction of my viewpoint at all to say that I don't get the interest in the NA scene, exactly because of that lack of results.
- have you considered that I enjoy these sorts of threads because I enjoy speaking truth to dumb? please consider how you factor in both of the threads that applies to. I also enjoy helping a good and angry mob throw torches at assholes, which, again, idra and destiny sitting in a tree.
edit: dude, there's a lot more I could go into here, but do you not see any difference between being interested in the narrative of an angry, childish man's success and the narrative of his fall? it's a victory for everyone but idra and his fanbase, which is by far the minority in 2013.
On May 10 2013 09:27 Tz1k1 wrote: Honestly think EG made a mistake here.
IdrA is the only reason i personally followed anything to do with EG, their other players or InControl's shitty jokes.
IdrA made EG, and to be honest its called EVIL Genius. Bad mouthing people is kinda of in the name. frankly the community has been slamming idra everytime i see his streams, so what if he snaps and hits back? isnt he entitled to? bot he and everyone else knows he isnt "paid" to bad mouth the community, but he is paid to be a member of it, and when the community bad mouths him, the same community he's paid to interact with, the same community that either loves or hates him for his bad manners. Then no matter how you look at it, he IS paid to bad mouth people. Its how he's been recognised, its how he brought EG to be noticed, and its what we expect of him.
in all sincerity i hope to see Greg stay in the sc2 scene as a Pro Gamer, and i hope he destroys everyone in EG he faces. There are only about 2 people in EG worth keeping. Geoff and Bryce suck (result wise).
Great you followed EG only because of IdrA. Other people, more levelheaded and interested in someone's skill and results than how BM they are followed Eg because they had actual good players who were actually competitive. IdrA, in the pro scene, is not good nor is he competitive anymore. He couldn't get top 16 GM for SHOUTcraft in NA. Long way from someone who was a top foreigner in 2011. He doesn't produce results and he hasn't accomplished anything besides giving the proverbial finger to the entire community in at least six months.
Goodbye IdrA. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
E-sports, and in fact any sport, is primarily about entertainment. and Idra entertaind with his bad manners. the only reason people make money in sports is because it entertains the fans / community.
as for results, how many result has incontrol gotten? huk? machine? Incontrol doesnt win a damn thing or even place that well in them. by your logic he should be dropped to, but he isnt. because for some reason people like him.
Because IncontroL is a smart, funny guy and is very entertaining.
InControl has a value that may be even more important than being a player. HuK played well enough in team-house matches that he earned a PL spot.
I think that there is just too much black and white going on and it is a shame.
I think that it is entirely possible to be of the opinion that the stuff Greg says and does is not acceptable at all and that it should not be acceptable in the pro scene, while still not judging him as a person solely on that.
I think that it is entirely possible to think that EG made the right decision in letting him go, and making a point that this is not acceptable from professional players while at the same time feeling compassion for a guy who is removed from his team and surely several close friends.
I support the decision made by EG, I think they are in the right, I don't condone Greg's behavior on the ladder or the way he talks to people when he is angry. But I still feel for the guy and the situation he is in and I hope that things will work out for him.
On May 10 2013 11:01 Jornada wrote: Everybody who EG signs goes down hill....
IdrA needs time away from game i think as well.
yeah just like suppy & demuslim right?
Just because suppy did good in one group doesn't make up for his overall results which are basically none. Demuslim is NA's favourite, that's about it. Lackluster skill, as soon as he meets a Korean on ladder you can see how silly of a player his is.
Yes as "soon" as Demuslim meets Koreans he loses.
Any other facts you'd like to pull out of your ass? Demuslim beats Polt all the time in TvT, Hyun, lots of good Koreans. Alot of them are barcodes as well.
He recently destroyed some Chinese players as well. The only player he has difficulty with seemingly is Byun. I doubt that he's alone in that.
Demuslim is improving but he's not that level to compete with Koreans yet. And no he doesn't beat Polt all the time, he won like may 3-4 games out of a ton.
Not at the level to compete with Koreans . . . watching his stream, I'd have to disagree. He beats Koreans regulary. Not as often as he beats foreigners of course. His win-rate minus the 16 Byun games in a row is literally 80% or above in all match ups on ladder. Ranked #1 GM on NA consistently. Koreans play on NA with relatively low lag. Evidence backs up the claim that he can compete with Koreans at this time.
Yes but no one these days use ladder as a measure, and being ranked 1 GM in NA doesn't mean you can compete with the Koreans. I'm hopeful on his improvement and all, but right now where would he rank among all Koreans? Because realistically I don't see him as Code A in Korea. That's more about how far ahead Korea is than anything else though.
He's maybe Code A. On a good day. For whatever reason he only gets rolled by ByuN and Polt, he beats HyuN and most other barcodes regularly, about even on matches.
He also played Suppy, who went 2-0 series his group against Ryung and Heart, and beat him almost every game like 20 games in a row to help him practice. I agree it's hard to tell how he compares to the Koreans without actually being in Korea, but I suspect he's better at this time than you're giving him credit for.
Well beating someone who beat someone else doesn't say much. I agree that he's maybe Code A on a good day, he hasn't really done anything to show much more than that, although with WCS we'll see.
EPT
