On May 10 2013 10:37 Shantastic wrote: I have yet to watch the SotG VOD, but from what I've heard, EG really fucked up with making the announcement without first letting iNcontroL know, especially considering he is the public face of EG. The utmost of hearts to him for going through what I've heard he did and staying professional and collected.
I don't think so. If you listen to what Geoff is saying in SoTG he reiterates several times that Greg says over and over that he hates the game. He acknowledges the goals of EG are counter to image Idra portrays and EG has tried to address that with Idra several times in multiple ways.
If Idra really wants to play SC2 professionally he will. He is good enough. If he truly doesn't like it then don't do it. He doesn't have kids and there is no reason to personally torture himself doing something he hates. (Although sometimes the best artists.... just sayin...)
Realistically though That is advice for everyone. Do what you love. If Idra honestly doesn't like playing and he doesn't look happy playing but who knows... why force him to do it. Why should he force himself? Maybe he doesn't like gaming at all anymore? Many people as they grow up just grow out of things.
Maybe he always wanted to be a banker. Geoff said he always liked cooking... maybe he will be a chef. It really doesn't matter but I would never advise anyone to do something full time that they hate.
People will do themselves and others a huge favor by doing what they love. (And most of the time being good at what you love doesn't really matter)
On May 10 2013 10:37 Cele wrote: this thread needs to be moderated i feel.
on topic: While i didnt like the way Idra treated people, i always respected his honesty about Starcraft2. Many Progamers feel this way, but it is a thing you do not verbalize in the industry.
Who are "many progamers"???? Name some instead just pointing general fingers.
On May 10 2013 10:37 JimmyJRaynor wrote: idra was told specifically by EG management that they needed to see better results to remain on staff. specifically, idra had to do something in WCS of note.
rather than get dropped by EG due to poor results he decided to go out in a blaze of glory with guns firing in all directions.
Idra died with his boots on.
Biggest bulls... Ever.
EG is loyal to their playerbase even with poor results.
Machine, incontroll and huk got worse results than idra. Idra got booted cause he has no clue on when to keep his mouth shut. He's a person who burn brigdes everywhere he goes. Didnt EG even provide a "dr. Phil" for idra to help him manage his rage?
On May 10 2013 10:47 YumYumGranola wrote: The funny thing about IdrA's comments is he was absolutely right. The community clearly values personalities much more than it does the highest level of play. His stream is clearly evidence of it. And while it's not wise to basically shit on the fan-base when he's basically the no.1 benefactor of that setup, what he said was totally accurate. Ultimately, eSports are entertainment, and viewers matter much more than performance.
I feel like I would hate IdrA if I didn't agree with just about everything he says...and I'm a Terran player.
That's not the whole community though it's only a portion of it.
If you think what Idra did was actually acceptable behavior then i don't even know. Without fans there is no EG.
lol is this a post
what did he do that wasnt just idra being idra
ive already read the post he supposedly got removed for, but im not seeing anything special about it. it's obvious they've been planning to get rid of him or they just havent revealed the real reason (or might never)
That's the real reason, he's over stepped his boundaries one too many times
i dont really get it then. what does eg even have without idra
he was always their poster boy in sc2. none of their players can win anything anymore. not that idra has (for awhile anyway), but he was definitely one of the faces of eg other than incontrol.
you saw the comment he was responding to. none of the other players on his team put up with that kind of shit. if he tells that person to fuck off, then who cares. guy had it coming. all of "esports" is just filled with a bunch of pussified bitches apparently.
this whole situation is ridiculous
why is e-sports immune to the same social faux pas that real sports is? why the quote brackets when the response from a real sports organization to a serially underperforming player who just happens to get on twitter after a bad day of practice and say his chosen career is only watched by retards would likely be the exact same?
Because people like me wouldnt give a fuck about "social faux pas" in either esports or real sports. Because i prefer authenitc players over that ones that act with "political/social corret overlays".
hi sokrates!
as usual, it's vague generalizations with you. where is the line drawn on "authentic" players? would we be accepting of a white supremacist who habitually invoked racist sentiment, as long as he was authentic and up front about his beliefs? where does the greater society come in? more importantly, who cares when sponsors and team managers are the be-all and end-all in any sport, as agents of that greater society?
I would also note, as I have before when you used this same tack with defending destiny, that your lust for non-PC actors are in the distinct, fairly juvenile minority.
On May 10 2013 10:21 rd wrote:
His attitude was immature and childish, and it made him immensely popular. What's your point? It's fairly indicative that everyone else who enjoys it is mature enough not to get overly offended by it and not take it like he just killed your parents.
it's not a question of being offended, it's a question of whether we want this guy repping a progressing scene
really, honestly don't think the majority of people respect idra for his play these days, it's just as an anti-PC crusader and rose-colored accomplishments. sadly, stephano might be able to get away with saying bullshit, but realistically idra doesn't produce the results necessary to have any wiggle room.
Funny that you apply double standards for the same subject. On one side so society is bad for labeling women as breeders on the other hand you bring out social standards to measure our behaviour. So you only bring in the "society" as a valid arguments when it suits your own personal belives. Sounds more "juvenile" than my point of view.
And to answer your question i prefer authentic douchebags of douchebags that act nice because someone told them it is a good thing but still being douchebags.
a belief that women have a greater role in society than to be "breeders"? ...yeah. is this a serious argument? it's not a black and white portrait, society is less progressive in some aspects than others. I'm not continuing this OT tangent that you originated, either.
pieisamazing, your post that I didn't realize was in response to me is replete with reductive reasoning and is generally just ragingly offensive. try to come at it from a more calm standpoint and I might consider responding, but I'm not in the mood to break down a post of that size with that many subjective, obnoxious generalizations.
sorry man. you lost me with your high school vocabulary. "replete with reductive reasoning" "subjective, obnoxious generalizations" come on man
instead of using the thesaurus tool to add some grown-up to your posts, just get down to earth with me here and respond to my earlier post. im still waiting for you
So you are admitting that you are unable to think, speak, operate, and debate at a high school level?
If you think what Idra did was actually acceptable behavior then i don't even know. Without fans there is no EG.
lol is this a post
what did he do that wasnt just idra being idra
ive already read the post he supposedly got removed for, but im not seeing anything special about it. it's obvious they've been planning to get rid of him or they just havent revealed the real reason (or might never)
That's the real reason, he's over stepped his boundaries one too many times
i dont really get it then. what does eg even have without idra
he was always their poster boy in sc2. none of their players can win anything anymore. not that idra has (for awhile anyway), but he was definitely one of the faces of eg other than incontrol.
you saw the comment he was responding to. none of the other players on his team put up with that kind of shit. if he tells that person to fuck off, then who cares. guy had it coming. all of "esports" is just filled with a bunch of pussified bitches apparently.
this whole situation is ridiculous
why is e-sports immune to the same social faux pas that real sports is? why the quote brackets when the response from a real sports organization to a serially underperforming player who just happens to get on twitter after a bad day of practice and say his chosen career is only watched by retards would likely be the exact same?
because "esports" isnt even a thing its a thing that people WANT to become a thing but it will never be as popular or far-reaching as real sports, and thats just the truth
people who watch "esports" are already a niche audience that can probably handle a few mean words without running to mommy and daddy. why do people care about some fucking words on the internet? why is everyone trying to look super professional? so someday people can be like "oh esports? i dont watch that its too mainstream."
it blows my mind that people can take serious offense to stuff like a player blowing off steam. im sure you and everyone else in this thread has been in twitch chats with all the idiots. and when i say all the idiots, i mean like 99% of the people in the twitch chats. the non-idiots are pretty much the ones you dont even know are there (i.e, the ones not talking). its gonna be rough dealing with shitty people when youre trying to entertain them, even if part of that entertainment is you being an asshole.
but then, i shouldnt be surprised. team liquid in particular has become shithole of memes and witch hunts since i started lurking so long ago.
I hope you know that it is gullible fans like you who love the "dark and edgy" persona that idra gloats about exploiting. I'm not sure what your point is, any community would be shitty if everyone was an asshole every time they got even a little upset. Whether or not the community is small or large is irrelevant, sports/e-sports or people in general mostly dislike assholes. You can't act surprised that some people are happy idra got fired.
Getting mad is no excuse for someone to be a complete and total dickhole. Perhaps if he had a legit mental disorder people would be more forgiving, but he simply comes off as a whiny brat.
nice baseless personal attack bro. unfortunately it didnt really add anything to your post to make it believable
and just to expand a bit, yes idra is whiny, but so are plenty of other players. idra just vocalizes it more. its part of the character that a lot of people like and its honestly why eg is even a popular team at this point. without idra they [probably] would be nothing right now in sc2
Agreed, the entire sc2 community owes Idra more then they will ever admit. For me, he was the only reason i still watched this shitty game.
Oh shit, when did Starcraft become professional wrestling?
On May 10 2013 10:21 InFaMOUs331 wrote: State of the Game Podcast:
@17:15..... when Slasher dances on Idra's grave while Geoff crys.
Esports is brutal.
In his defense, I don't think Slasher noticed that Geoff was crying on air at that point.
And to be honest, Slasher probably wouldn't have expected that response, I sure as hell didn't. . . .Sure, Idra might be a close friend of Geoff's, but the guy didn't pass away. Crying over a friend losing his job? Has anyone else ever done this? If so, maybe I'm emotionally dysfunctional as I've never cried over anyone losing their job, family, friend or otherwise. There's always tomorrow and new opportunities.
IdrA was really really important to EG in the beginning of SC2, he was their front-man, their lone superstar. That more than made up for some of his bad manners and attitude. Now though, EG is a lot bigger, a lot more players are both getting better results and exposure. It's bad no matter how you slice it, but if EG really wants to move in a more "professional" and results-oriented direction, I suppose this is for the best.
On May 10 2013 10:05 pieisamazing wrote: [quote] lol is this a post
what did he do that wasnt just idra being idra
ive already read the post he supposedly got removed for, but im not seeing anything special about it. it's obvious they've been planning to get rid of him or they just havent revealed the real reason (or might never)
That's the real reason, he's over stepped his boundaries one too many times
i dont really get it then. what does eg even have without idra
he was always their poster boy in sc2. none of their players can win anything anymore. not that idra has (for awhile anyway), but he was definitely one of the faces of eg other than incontrol.
you saw the comment he was responding to. none of the other players on his team put up with that kind of shit. if he tells that person to fuck off, then who cares. guy had it coming. all of "esports" is just filled with a bunch of pussified bitches apparently.
this whole situation is ridiculous
why is e-sports immune to the same social faux pas that real sports is? why the quote brackets when the response from a real sports organization to a serially underperforming player who just happens to get on twitter after a bad day of practice and say his chosen career is only watched by retards would likely be the exact same?
Because people like me wouldnt give a fuck about "social faux pas" in either esports or real sports. Because i prefer authenitc players over that ones that act with "political/social corret overlays".
hi sokrates!
as usual, it's vague generalizations with you. where is the line drawn on "authentic" players? would we be accepting of a white supremacist who habitually invoked racist sentiment, as long as he was authentic and up front about his beliefs? where does the greater society come in? more importantly, who cares when sponsors and team managers are the be-all and end-all in any sport, as agents of that greater society?
I would also note, as I have before when you used this same tack with defending destiny, that your lust for non-PC actors are in the distinct, fairly juvenile minority.
On May 10 2013 10:21 rd wrote:
His attitude was immature and childish, and it made him immensely popular. What's your point? It's fairly indicative that everyone else who enjoys it is mature enough not to get overly offended by it and not take it like he just killed your parents.
it's not a question of being offended, it's a question of whether we want this guy repping a progressing scene
really, honestly don't think the majority of people respect idra for his play these days, it's just as an anti-PC crusader and rose-colored accomplishments. sadly, stephano might be able to get away with saying bullshit, but realistically idra doesn't produce the results necessary to have any wiggle room.
Funny that you apply double standards for the same subject. On one side so society is bad for labeling women as breeders on the other hand you bring out social standards to measure our behaviour. So you only bring in the "society" as a valid arguments when it suits your own personal belives. Sounds more "juvenile" than my point of view.
And to answer your question i prefer authentic douchebags of douchebags that act nice because someone told them it is a good thing but still being douchebags.
a belief that women have a greater role in society than to be "breeders"? ...yeah. is this a serious argument? it's not a black and white portrait, society is less progressive in some aspects than others. I'm not continuing this OT tangent that you originated, either.
pieisamazing, your post that I didn't realize was in response to me is replete with reductive reasoning and is generally just ragingly offensive. try to come at it from a more calm standpoint and I might consider responding, but I'm not in the mood to break down a post of that size with that many subjective, obnoxious generalizations.
sorry man. you lost me with your high school vocabulary. "replete with reductive reasoning" "subjective, obnoxious generalizations" come on man
instead of using the thesaurus tool to add some grown-up to your posts, just get down to earth with me here and respond to my earlier post. im still waiting for you
So you are admitting that you are unable to think, speak, operate, and debate at a high school level?
i thought i made it glaringly obvious that he should just speak like a normal human being instead of synonym-ing all of his words to sound more credible and intelligent, but maybe i was too subtle for you
On May 10 2013 10:05 pieisamazing wrote: [quote] lol is this a post
what did he do that wasnt just idra being idra
ive already read the post he supposedly got removed for, but im not seeing anything special about it. it's obvious they've been planning to get rid of him or they just havent revealed the real reason (or might never)
That's the real reason, he's over stepped his boundaries one too many times
i dont really get it then. what does eg even have without idra
he was always their poster boy in sc2. none of their players can win anything anymore. not that idra has (for awhile anyway), but he was definitely one of the faces of eg other than incontrol.
you saw the comment he was responding to. none of the other players on his team put up with that kind of shit. if he tells that person to fuck off, then who cares. guy had it coming. all of "esports" is just filled with a bunch of pussified bitches apparently.
this whole situation is ridiculous
why is e-sports immune to the same social faux pas that real sports is? why the quote brackets when the response from a real sports organization to a serially underperforming player who just happens to get on twitter after a bad day of practice and say his chosen career is only watched by retards would likely be the exact same?
Because people like me wouldnt give a fuck about "social faux pas" in either esports or real sports. Because i prefer authenitc players over that ones that act with "political/social corret overlays".
hi sokrates!
as usual, it's vague generalizations with you. where is the line drawn on "authentic" players? would we be accepting of a white supremacist who habitually invoked racist sentiment, as long as he was authentic and up front about his beliefs? where does the greater society come in? more importantly, who cares when sponsors and team managers are the be-all and end-all in any sport, as agents of that greater society?
I would also note, as I have before when you used this same tack with defending destiny, that your lust for non-PC actors are in the distinct, fairly juvenile minority.
On May 10 2013 10:21 rd wrote:
His attitude was immature and childish, and it made him immensely popular. What's your point? It's fairly indicative that everyone else who enjoys it is mature enough not to get overly offended by it and not take it like he just killed your parents.
it's not a question of being offended, it's a question of whether we want this guy repping a progressing scene
really, honestly don't think the majority of people respect idra for his play these days, it's just as an anti-PC crusader and rose-colored accomplishments. sadly, stephano might be able to get away with saying bullshit, but realistically idra doesn't produce the results necessary to have any wiggle room.
Funny that you apply double standards for the same subject. On one side so society is bad for labeling women as breeders on the other hand you bring out social standards to measure our behaviour. So you only bring in the "society" as a valid arguments when it suits your own personal belives. Sounds more "juvenile" than my point of view.
And to answer your question i prefer authentic douchebags of douchebags that act nice because someone told them it is a good thing but still being douchebags.
a belief that women have a greater role in society than to be "breeders"? ...yeah. is this a serious argument? it's not a black and white portrait, society is less progressive in some aspects than others. I'm not continuing this OT tangent that you originated, either.
Again, that is your own SUBJECTIVE view of society being progressive or reactionary. For me a community is not progressive if they bring out the pitchforks everytime someone says something they might get offended by.
there are certain assumptions to being labeled as a "progressive" society that I'm increasingly certain you don't understand, namely that "progressive" policies attempt to help at-risk subdivisions of society re: women/minorities/oppressed sexualities.
do you think idra is being oppressed when people ask him to not call them rubes who throw money at him when he doesn't respect them? what is there to respect in that statement? what about him, in 2013, is to be respected to make up for that statement instead of EG finally throwing him out?
Yes i think people are being oppressed when everyone is getting out their pitchforks if they say or do something "bad" like stephano , destiny or idra. Or dont you think it is non oppressive if someone says something others might get offended by (what destiny or stephano did wasnt even meant for the public") yet some people grab their pitchforks and want them to be fired/punished. IS that non "oppressive" to you?
I've wanted to see idra improve both his game and his mentality for a long time. I feel like there was a point in time where he started to do that, when they first started talking about a new sports psychologist he was beginning to see. That slightly more positive idra didn't last long and he's seemed really depressed and negative lately. Of course this is just my impression of him watching his stream and ITG, so it might be off from what was actually happening behind the scenes.
It's too bad. All it takes is an adjustment in attitude to change his life but he has to realize that for himself and understand that most of his problems come directly from his own thoughts. It's a hard thing to do, speaking from experience.
Good luck in the future idra. Hope you can sort things out and get on the right path.
On May 10 2013 10:24 Heinsenzerg wrote: why the fuck would eg let incontrol go on to state of the game blind, they totally screwed him
Because they're a terrible organization with lots of money. They've had their heads up their asses from day 1, buying players when they win tournaments then failing to foster or cultivate their talent. They've never picked up new players or had any intuition in regards to the scene, so it goes to show they'll continue to make big mistakes--both in and outside of their team.
Remember how Alex Garfield treated Milkis when they talked about player robbing (PuMa)? Then he goes on to speak in interviews all softly spoken to try to redeem support. These people are shit, and could take a lesson or two from Nazgul when it comes to running a brand beyond the 'Slytherin Yankees'.
EG has it's faults definitely. But Suppy pretty much debunks your initial statement.
Spraying and praying occasionally nets a head shot.
EG is trying to move away from their past, and to a degree their present, image of a rich team that buys/steals/tempts players. I think that they have really improved a lot this past year. The fact that they haven't ditched some of their waning players shows their dedication. They might buy talent, but they don't just discard them once their useless either.
The biggest problem for them is the business model which is optimized for creating revenue and exposure rather than results. The importance of results can be debated in that context of profit, however if the team wants actual respect based on their performance then there is no debate; they need to find a new model that not only makes money but also provides a good environment to improve and properly train. Cut down the streaming and laddering guys.
Irresponsible on Garfield's part not to inform his players beforehand. I feel like IdrA could have really improved, if he had a dedicated practice schedule and a slight change in attitude.
Agreed, the entire sc2 community owes Idra more then they will ever admit. For me, he was the only reason i still watched this shitty game.
The SC2 community owes nothing to Idra, how delusional you have to be to actually believe that? It's 100% the other way around... A mediocre player that did well in BETA, proceeded to cash in for 3 fucking years riding the bandwagon of SC2. Which is driven by people who are really passionate about it.
Also if you believe that SC2 is a shitty game then how can you watch a guy that openly HATES it play it over and over just for sponsor money? You are either successfully trolled an answer out of me or you need to get a better grasp of logic and reality.
With that said, I really hope he can move forward and do something that he enjoys. Best of luck to him in the future.
There is a difference between being a villain, a heel, an antagonist and just being a childish, bad-mannered, emotionally unstable human being. Villains fit within a plot and have a reason and purpose.
I really liked IdrA when he was the villain of GSL because it added in a little personality and conflict to an otherwise bland player-base. When he was the leather gracket wearing foreign hope that all the Koreans wanted to beat because IdrA shit in their cereal, it was a great storyline. When zerg was legitimately UP, it was somewhat cathartic to have someone like IdrA counteract someone like Fruitdealer. When he was sitting in the caster chair with Jason Lee going on about how the scene needed a villain, it was comedic gold. But, I feel like IdrA lost his story. He lost the context that gave him value and justification as a villain and heel.
And so he lost his edge. The BM got tiring when it was really just pointless BM. The incessant whining even through periods of time where Zerg clearly was not UP was getting really played out especially when coupled with the lack of improvement from IdrA as a player. All players have those moments where they just can't resist being BM. All players really can't help but talk about balance at times and maybe whine a little. It's totally human to have those moments. When IdrA still had enough other exposure, his normality was still apparent. He had those awkward and light-hearted moments with Artosis. The faked high-five, the numerous SotG moments, and the candid interviews with CSN. Recently, he just feels like nothing but BM and rage.
On May 10 2013 10:54 CrowDOTA wrote: Irresponsible on Garfield's part not to inform his players beforehand. I feel like IdrA could have really improved, if he had a dedicated practice schedule and a slight change in attitude.
you're assuming he wants to improve
considering he's never failed to make his opinions on starcraft 2 public (shit game etc) I wouldn't be surprised if he just retired after this
EPT
