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- Spore change looks awesome.
- Burrow revisions are a good idea, but 50/50 is wrong way to go methinks. Keep the cost, reduce the research time. The investment is necessary to offset additional units/econ growth, but adjusting the time at which it reaches the field is still cool, I would love to see more ground-base zerg play.
- Oracle changes are in theory awesome, but this is not a slight move by any means! That's a huge 19% increase in overall speed, and 50% increase in acceleration! Way too much. Half this or something and maybe.
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On May 03 2013 08:56 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 08:44 Cloak wrote:
The Corruptor should be the one with +bio. Theoretically Corruptors should just be a better unit, but that'd destroy balance. How? Nothing else in the air is a bio unit but Zerg air. If you had Corruptors in ZvZ in addition to Mutas, the fight would theoretically swing in favour with the person who has Corruptors right?
They're two separate thoughts. 1) Corruptors should be +bio. Or 2) The Corruptor should be redone, but DK is very change averse.
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Dont really like the oracle buff. I think they needed to change the oracle in a way to nerf the insane light-dps, but at the same time make it a more durable unit. I don't really feel the change does that in any way, just buffs what it is already good at, worker harrass when the opponent isn't ready for it.
Also I'd love to see more burrow, still think 100/100 is a pretty good deal for it already. Don't know how I feel about the change, I think Blizzard should make things viable(which I think burrow already is), but not force playstyles down our throats.
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On May 03 2013 08:57 Greendotz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 08:44 Cloak wrote:
The Corruptor should be the one with +bio. Theoretically Corruptors should just be a better unit, but that'd destroy balance. I think the whole point about the spore buff is to give a chance to players who go for ground armies. If you buff corrupter's you still have to build a spire, and then it'll just go from muta ball V muta ball to muta-corrupter ball V muta-corrupter ball. It doesn't solve anything.
Well, mostly because the Muta vs Muta air dynamic is stale. Scourge were dedicated AtA and were only good for vying for Muta control, whoever won the Muta battle manifested as killing everything else. Corruptor is the AtA dynamic in SC2, and is notably absent. Muta will probably always be the dominant ZvZ meta, so why not flesh it out?
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Spore buff is theo nly buff that makes sense. Why do zergs need cheaper burrow? Oracle is already super fast...And the oracle can end games. The way the unit works is its either LoL your noob you did no dmg with oracle. Or LoL 8 workers died.
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I'm terran and I want you to nerf hellbat because TvT is a real nightmare.
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On May 03 2013 09:23 Qikz wrote:
I must be the only terran who has no issues dealing even with proxy oracle at the moment. The speedboost should mean late game revelation will be used more which is great.
This is what I'm more excited about, really. Revelation is an amazingly underused skill, but currently you have a super high risk of losing your Oracle trying to tag the army. Everyone focuses so much on early game damage oracles do but, really, they shine a lot more in the later game IMO with the scouting they can provide.
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On May 03 2013 09:31 Zarahtra wrote:
Dont really like the oracle buff. I think they needed to change the oracle in a way to nerf the insane light-dps, but at the same time make it a more durable unit. I don't really feel the change does that in any way, just buffs what it is already good at, worker harrass when the opponent isn't ready for it.
Also I'd love to see more burrow, still think 100/100 is a pretty good deal for it already. Don't know how I feel about the change, I think Blizzard should make things viable(which I think burrow already is), but not force playstyles down our throats.
looks like you just want it to be another stupid protoss unit with HP but no damage....
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I think Blizzard and their balance crew might actually be retarded for thinking Oracles needed a speed buff. They are a horribly designed unit which does very little for the game. If they want skill to have an impact on Oracles, then they should make it a micro-heavy air unit like Banshees. Banshees = good, Oracles = bad. They kill workers/light units instantly, which is just stupid. They are already fast enough that they can get in there, kill 2-3 workers and run out even with a turret attacking, and they will only lose shield.
I don't even mind Oracles that much in all-ins, it's just the harass that's bad.
Spore change is alright, except they should just change mutalisks. If they are going to be as fast as they are, they should deal a bit less damage (think Reapers almost). Mutalisk switches are lame and are a bit strong right now, too.
Burrow? Sure, why not make it 50-50. Maybe people will use it for scouting and delaying bases. There might be interested burrow timings, which I think are alright since Burrow micro is actually good and not totally 1 dimensional.
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This might actually be a test I try out. Really not too sure about buffing spores further just yet. I hate muta vs muta but I still want it to be an option, just not the dominant composition. This spore buff may kill mutas completely.
75 minerals and a drone for a 400 hp structure with 7 range and a dps of 52 vs mutas (3 shots them) that only requires a spawning pool? idk seems a little too good now.
I'm elated in the burrow change though (Leenock probably is too :p ). 50/50 and the same build time as a hatchery should open up some interesting early game options. I think defending in ZvZ will be a lot easier.
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On May 03 2013 08:56 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 08:44 Cloak wrote:
The Corruptor should be the one with +bio. Theoretically Corruptors should just be a better unit, but that'd destroy balance. How? Nothing else in the air is a bio unit but Zerg air. If you had Corruptors in ZvZ in addition to Mutas, the fight would theoretically swing in favour with the person who has Corruptors right?
Adding +bio to corruptors would do nothing to solve the muta issue. They have the same problem as phoenix against mutas, they don't shoot down. If you keep them in your base your opponent will take the whole map, if you try to move out with them the mutas will just backstab you and win with a base trade.
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On May 03 2013 09:37 rpgalon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 09:31 Zarahtra wrote:
Dont really like the oracle buff. I think they needed to change the oracle in a way to nerf the insane light-dps, but at the same time make it a more durable unit. I don't really feel the change does that in any way, just buffs what it is already good at, worker harrass when the opponent isn't ready for it.
Also I'd love to see more burrow, still think 100/100 is a pretty good deal for it already. Don't know how I feel about the change, I think Blizzard should make things viable(which I think burrow already is), but not force playstyles down our throats. looks like you just want it to be another stupid protoss unit with HP but no damage....
That's a very stupid conclusion to come by from my post. I just don't want it to be a "either my opponent has defense against it or he doesn't". As it is, the oracle does almost 0 dmg or it does game ending dmg. Ofcourse I want both options to still be there, but I'd prefer it to do most of the time dmg somewhere in between those two, and like I said, for the oracle to have some place in the protoss army. The only good thing about this buff is that it makes the oracle better for revelation in the lategame.
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I'm zerg and I think all changes are retarded. Buffing spore won't change the fact that the muta player will have map control and can get a faster economy going to crush a roach hydra infestor army. Burrow is fine the way it is, making it that cheap will probably just make it so some really retarded super fast burrow rush to deny a natural or something... Oracle already seems fast enough, it's not like it's not used because it's "slow".
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On May 03 2013 09:52 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 08:22 Subspace wrote:On May 03 2013 08:18 TheDwf wrote:
The proposed Oracle changes are a horrible idea. Don't know for ZvP and PvP but the last thing TvP needs is more lottery. Terran already has the best scouting options in game... That would be Protoss
Either way you look at it, terran has it worst in that department.
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On May 03 2013 08:23 partydude89 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 08:13 semmeL wrote:
Why doesnt they want muta vs muta, was fun to watch in sc1 also. Sure it's hard for the players but, where is the problem with rewarding the better micro/macroing player that has better multitasking.
Oracle speedbuff seems too strong and will buff the allin also, cause u can micro it better.
Hope the changes wont go live like that after testing.
Because it doesn't. it's mostly luck based. it seems like whoever starts mutas/gets the first volley off first wins. there is very little micro you can actually do.
This is so untrue... Don't talk if you have no idea what you're talking about. Players made careers out of their superior Muta micro
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The only reason I can think of for giving the Oracle change a thumbs down is a player not wanting to have to deal with it. Oracles get little use now, and they could allow for more multitasking scenarios late game. It's a huge thumbs up from a spectator perspective, and I think it may be a nice change for Protoss from a gameplay perspective.
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On May 03 2013 09:56 MateShade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 08:23 partydude89 wrote:On May 03 2013 08:13 semmeL wrote:
Why doesnt they want muta vs muta, was fun to watch in sc1 also. Sure it's hard for the players but, where is the problem with rewarding the better micro/macroing player that has better multitasking.
Oracle speedbuff seems too strong and will buff the allin also, cause u can micro it better.
Hope the changes wont go live like that after testing.
Because it doesn't. it's mostly luck based. it seems like whoever starts mutas/gets the first volley off first wins. there is very little micro you can actually do. This is so untrue... Don't talk if you have no idea what you're talking about. Players made careers out of their superior Muta micro
The thing is, there isn't much room to show off Muta micro anymore without scourge. I'm not a fan of buffing static defense because I feel it cripples the different ways Mutas can be used.
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On May 03 2013 09:56 MateShade wrote:
This is so untrue... Don't talk if you have no idea what you're talking about. Players made careers out of their superior Muta micro
People made careers out of superior Muta micro in a game where you could only control 12 units, thus better multitasking was rewarded. In SC2 you can control all your mutas at once which makes all of this moot. You get the first volley off, you win the game instantly.
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EPT
