• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:25
CEST 07:25
KST 14:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments1[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes139BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch2Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues
Tourneys
Stellar Fest KSL Week 80 StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
ASL20 General Discussion BW General Discussion Diplomacy, Cosmonarchy Edition Soulkey on ASL S20 ASL TICKET LIVE help! :D
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch [ASL20] Ro16 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Borderlands 3 Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Big Programming Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Too Many LANs? Tournament Ov…
TrAiDoS
i'm really bored guys
Peanutsc
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1722 users

Call to Action: May 2 Balance Testing - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
640 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 31 32 33 Next All
convention
Profile Joined October 2011
United States622 Posts
May 02 2013 23:24 GMT
#21
On May 03 2013 08:24 Aquila- wrote:
Spore buff is ok, rest are terrible changes, buffing Oracle that is already borderline broken are you kidding me?

If it's so broken, why does no one use it?
nGBeast
Profile Joined July 2010
United States914 Posts
May 02 2013 23:27 GMT
#22
On May 03 2013 08:15 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2013 08:14 nGBeast wrote:
On May 03 2013 08:12 GTPGlitch wrote:
Fuck they went through with the oracle change


It's called a beta test for a reason.


To be honest 99% of the time they do these beta test changes they go through



And 99% of the time the game is better off because we don't let random sc2 players tell us what is good and bad
geokilla
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada8241 Posts
May 02 2013 23:29 GMT
#23
Dislike that Oracle and Spore buff... And I don't even play ZvZ!
gillon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Sweden1578 Posts
May 02 2013 23:32 GMT
#24
Oracle buff is retarded. Having to build ebay at 4:10 because you see 2 gas and only 2 pylons is retarded as it is.
www.teamproperty.net | "You should hate losing, but you should never fear defeat." - 이윤열
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
May 02 2013 23:32 GMT
#25
thought the oracle can already outrun everything on the ground that can hit air oh well. Don't like upgrades getting cheaper, I would rather like to see some upgrades getting more expensive to stretch the game, but thats just personal preference. Hope they adjust Banshee cloak at some point.
shin_toss
Profile Joined May 2010
Philippines2589 Posts
May 02 2013 23:34 GMT
#26
Not sure about the oracle, sure its gonna be good in PvZ,T but in PvP . It could hurt. Well this isn't final.
AKMU / IU
Xequecal
Profile Joined October 2010
United States473 Posts
May 02 2013 23:34 GMT
#27
I like the Oracle buff just because it reduces the ridiculous randomness of PvP. Ok, I open Stargate but I want to be safe against DTs, so I make an Oracle. My opponent made a Phoenix, so I lose the game basically instantly. At 4 speed I might actually be able to get it away provided I don't run it directly into their Phoenix.

The acceleration change is much more deadly than the speed change in other matchups. Now you can kill a lot more fleeing workers by stuttering them.
convention
Profile Joined October 2011
United States622 Posts
May 02 2013 23:34 GMT
#28
On May 03 2013 08:32 gillon wrote:
Oracle buff is retarded. Having to build ebay at 4:10 because you see 2 gas and only 2 pylons is retarded as it is.

The oracle really hasn't changed much. It'll get across the map in maybe 5 less seconds. Unless you built an ebay at 4:20 before, you don't need one at 4:10 now. It's not that big of a buff.
BaaL`
Profile Joined May 2010
297 Posts
May 02 2013 23:36 GMT
#29
Mine 50 gas, get zerglings, tech burrow. Oh you want to have a natural? That will be 1 scan pls. Oh you want a wall? Another scan please. Oh you wanted to move out later with any kind of bio? Better get a raven or you will have to scan 15 times to get across the map, or you will die to baneling burrow.
hereticfurby
Profile Joined September 2012
United States45 Posts
May 02 2013 23:36 GMT
#30
Fuck that, Oracle is a bullshit unit, requires infinite scouting time to see if proxied or not, and now it's not even necessary to proxy due to how fast they get from point A-B. Oracles hit before medivacs/Vikings are out and forces a Terran to sacrifice way too much tech options in order to have a chance at defending, and even then it's never enough because you get 3-4gate Stargated and you're absolutely fucked. It's ridiculously hard to be able to scout all that at any time and properly defend at 8 minutes. Not to mention that a Terran can't really do anything until at least 10 minutes because of the Photon overcharge, almost entirely nullifying every early Terran all-in. Zerg has no AA answer unless they forcibly use Spore Crawlers, which sacrifices their economy and tech ridiculously. All-in-all, the Oracle ALREADY causes your opponent to sacrifice WAY too much infrastructure just for POSSIBLE defense, and it is not even guaranteed defense.

Plus if you take really ANY damage from an oracle, since your tech was already heavily delayed, you're playing catch up with a Protoss the entire game, which is bad considering how the 12-14 minute mark is the biggest turning point in a TvP. So you'd be screwed once that time hit and it would be so one sided.
N/A
GizmoPT
Profile Joined May 2010
Portugal3040 Posts
May 02 2013 23:38 GMT
#31
On May 03 2013 08:36 BaaL` wrote:
Mine 50 gas, get zerglings, tech burrow. Oh you want to have a natural? That will be 1 scan pls. Oh you want a wall? Another scan please. Oh you wanted to move out later with any kind of bio? Better get a raven or you will have to scan 15 times to get across the map, or you will die to baneling burrow.


ye cause you couldnt get 100 gas and do the same..
Snipers Promod & Micro Arena Creator in SC2 Arcade - Portuguese Community Admin for SC2, HotS and Overwatch - Ex-Portugal SC2 Team Manager, Ex- Copenhagen Wolves and Grow uP Gaming Manager in SC2. Just Playing games now!
Kergy
Profile Joined December 2010
Peru2011 Posts
May 02 2013 23:39 GMT
#32
Buffing is always more fun that nerfing, props to Blizz for this one!
Everyday Girl's Day~!
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
May 02 2013 23:39 GMT
#33
On May 03 2013 08:22 Subspace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2013 08:18 TheDwf wrote:
The proposed Oracle changes are a horrible idea. Don't know for ZvP and PvP but the last thing TvP needs is more lottery.


Terran already has the best scouting options in game...


That's right overlords scans(?) are so useful at scouting proxies...
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
shin_toss
Profile Joined May 2010
Philippines2589 Posts
May 02 2013 23:40 GMT
#34
Carrier speed buff too pls
AKMU / IU
BAAEEMM
Profile Joined April 2012
Germany412 Posts
May 02 2013 23:40 GMT
#35
On May 03 2013 08:13 semmeL wrote:
Why doesnt they want muta vs muta, was fun to watch in sc1 also. Sure it's hard for the players but, where is the problem with rewarding the better micro/macroing player that has better multitasking.
Oracle speedbuff seems too strong and will buff the allin also, cause u can micro it better.

Hope the changes wont go live like that after testing.


Because there are no Scourge in SC2 which greatly limits the amount of micro involved and makes ZvZ very random and boring.
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2141 Posts
May 02 2013 23:41 GMT
#36
How has Blizzard not yet realized that buffing hydra anti-air will basically solve all of zerg's anti-air problems?
vibeo gane,
DeathDyingDoomKiller
Profile Joined October 2012
Canada91 Posts
May 02 2013 23:41 GMT
#37
YES. All Muta V Muta ZvZ is so horrible to watch
Join the League of Evil. We have Murder, Evil, Blood, Grim Reaping, Killing, Death, Dying, Doom, Black, Dark Red, John Boehner, Reaper, Slaughter, and Kill-Death.
convention
Profile Joined October 2011
United States622 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-02 23:42:34
May 02 2013 23:41 GMT
#38
On May 03 2013 08:36 hereticfurby wrote:
Fuck that, Oracle is a bullshit unit, requires infinite scouting time to see if proxied or not, and now it's not even necessary to proxy due to how fast they get from point A-B. Oracles hit before medivacs/Vikings are out and forces a Terran to sacrifice way too much tech options in order to have a chance at defending, and even then it's never enough because you get 3-4gate Stargated and you're absolutely fucked. It's ridiculously hard to be able to scout all that at any time and properly defend at 8 minutes. Not to mention that a Terran can't really do anything until at least 10 minutes because of the Photon overcharge, almost entirely nullifying every early Terran all-in. Zerg has no AA answer unless they forcibly use Spore Crawlers, which sacrifices their economy and tech ridiculously. All-in-all, the Oracle ALREADY causes your opponent to sacrifice WAY too much infrastructure just for POSSIBLE defense, and it is not even guaranteed defense.

Plus if you take really ANY damage from an oracle, since your tech was already heavily delayed, you're playing catch up with a Protoss the entire game, which is bad considering how the 12-14 minute mark is the biggest turning point in a TvP. So you'd be screwed once that time hit and it would be so one sided.

Actually: turbovac is the OP unit. It requires infinite scouting to find the proxy starport with mines or hellbats. It doesn't even need to be proxied with how fast it can boost across the map. Protoss has to sacrifice way too much economy to even be able to defend against it, and basically can never take a third. Then the terran can just get a few racks with reactors with the medivacs and it's already over. Not to mention protoss can't even attack terran because of bunkers, which nullify every protoss all-in. Plus, the medivac will always kill a few workers even with a queen or photon overcharge, which forces even more static defense. All-in-all, before the boost the medivac already forced way too much infrastructure for defense, which isn't even guaranteed since the medivac has boost so you can't even kill it off.

By the way, I like the turbo-vac, I like the oracle. The point is that every race has that super annoying unit that can deny stuff all game long, like lings for zerg.
Madera
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden2672 Posts
May 02 2013 23:42 GMT
#39
On May 03 2013 08:24 convention wrote:
Why does the oracle change receive so much negative feedback? I don't recall seeing any oracles in the GSL yet, I rarely see them in other tournaments. The speed buff does not help with all-ins (who cares if you saved your two oracles when you have no army and are down 15 workers). It is an incredibly micro-intensive unit. Don't we want those units to be viable?

Because speed isn't the problem with the oracle. When used in PvT it's pretty much an all or nothing unit. Generally it either catches you off-guard and does game ending damage or you scout it and prepare and it does nothing. The problem with the oracle is that it doesn't have a solid mid-game transition to justify spending money on a stargate unless you're continuing down that tech path or using it with your all-in.
WorldEater
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom24 Posts
May 02 2013 23:42 GMT
#40
Your on so much crack blizzard its unreal, give the game more time you morons.

User was warned for this post
Never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you, with experience.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 31 32 33 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Korean StarCraft League
03:00
Week 80
CranKy Ducklings149
EnkiAlexander 56
davetesta46
HKG_Chickenman45
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft726
NeuroSwarm 168
Nina 122
kaitlyn70
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 854
hero 326
Nal_rA 63
Noble 63
sorry 63
Bale 11
League of Legends
JimRising 682
Cuddl3bear6
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K670
semphis_29
Other Games
summit1g7310
C9.Mang0408
Maynarde146
RuFF_SC275
Trikslyr47
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1014
BasetradeTV18
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH291
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt542
Upcoming Events
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2h 35m
RSL Revival
4h 35m
Reynor vs Cure
TBD vs Zoun
OSC
15h 35m
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
1d 2h
RSL Revival
1d 4h
Classic vs TBD
WardiTV Invitational
1d 5h
Online Event
1d 10h
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
LiuLi Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.