On May 03 2013 08:24 Aquila- wrote:
Spore buff is ok, rest are terrible changes, buffing Oracle that is already borderline broken are you kidding me?

If it's so broken, why does no one use it?

nGBeast

United States914 Posts

May 02 2013 23:27 GMT

#22

On May 03 2013 08:15 blade55555 wrote:

Show nested quote +

To be honest 99% of the time they do these beta test changes they go through

And 99% of the time the game is better off because we don't let random sc2 players tell us what is good and bad

geokilla

Canada8245 Posts

May 02 2013 23:29 GMT

#23

Dislike that Oracle and Spore buff... And I don't even play ZvZ!

gillon

Sweden1578 Posts

May 02 2013 23:32 GMT

#24

Oracle buff is retarded. Having to build ebay at 4:10 because you see 2 gas and only 2 pylons is retarded as it is.

FeyFey

Germany10114 Posts

May 02 2013 23:32 GMT

#25

thought the oracle can already outrun everything on the ground that can hit air oh well. Don't like upgrades getting cheaper, I would rather like to see some upgrades getting more expensive to stretch the game, but thats just personal preference. Hope they adjust Banshee cloak at some point.

shin_toss

Philippines2589 Posts

May 02 2013 23:34 GMT

#26

Not sure about the oracle, sure its gonna be good in PvZ,T but in PvP . It could hurt. Well this isn't final.

Xequecal

United States473 Posts

May 02 2013 23:34 GMT

#27

I like the Oracle buff just because it reduces the ridiculous randomness of PvP. Ok, I open Stargate but I want to be safe against DTs, so I make an Oracle. My opponent made a Phoenix, so I lose the game basically instantly. At 4 speed I might actually be able to get it away provided I don't run it directly into their Phoenix.

The acceleration change is much more deadly than the speed change in other matchups. Now you can kill a lot more fleeing workers by stuttering them.

convention

United States622 Posts

May 02 2013 23:34 GMT

#28

On May 03 2013 08:32 gillon wrote:
Oracle buff is retarded. Having to build ebay at 4:10 because you see 2 gas and only 2 pylons is retarded as it is.

The oracle really hasn't changed much. It'll get across the map in maybe 5 less seconds. Unless you built an ebay at 4:20 before, you don't need one at 4:10 now. It's not that big of a buff.

BaaL`

297 Posts

May 02 2013 23:36 GMT

#29

Mine 50 gas, get zerglings, tech burrow. Oh you want to have a natural? That will be 1 scan pls. Oh you want a wall? Another scan please. Oh you wanted to move out later with any kind of bio? Better get a raven or you will have to scan 15 times to get across the map, or you will die to baneling burrow.

hereticfurby

United States45 Posts

May 02 2013 23:36 GMT

#30

Fuck that, Oracle is a bullshit unit, requires infinite scouting time to see if proxied or not, and now it's not even necessary to proxy due to how fast they get from point A-B. Oracles hit before medivacs/Vikings are out and forces a Terran to sacrifice way too much tech options in order to have a chance at defending, and even then it's never enough because you get 3-4gate Stargated and you're absolutely fucked. It's ridiculously hard to be able to scout all that at any time and properly defend at 8 minutes. Not to mention that a Terran can't really do anything until at least 10 minutes because of the Photon overcharge, almost entirely nullifying every early Terran all-in. Zerg has no AA answer unless they forcibly use Spore Crawlers, which sacrifices their economy and tech ridiculously. All-in-all, the Oracle ALREADY causes your opponent to sacrifice WAY too much infrastructure just for POSSIBLE defense, and it is not even guaranteed defense.

Plus if you take really ANY damage from an oracle, since your tech was already heavily delayed, you're playing catch up with a Protoss the entire game, which is bad considering how the 12-14 minute mark is the biggest turning point in a TvP. So you'd be screwed once that time hit and it would be so one sided.

GizmoPT

Portugal3040 Posts

May 02 2013 23:38 GMT

#31

On May 03 2013 08:36 BaaL` wrote:
Mine 50 gas, get zerglings, tech burrow. Oh you want to have a natural? That will be 1 scan pls. Oh you want a wall? Another scan please. Oh you wanted to move out later with any kind of bio? Better get a raven or you will have to scan 15 times to get across the map, or you will die to baneling burrow.

ye cause you couldnt get 100 gas and do the same..

Kergy

Peru2011 Posts

May 02 2013 23:39 GMT

#32

Buffing is always more fun that nerfing, props to Blizz for this one!

GTPGlitch

5061 Posts

May 02 2013 23:39 GMT

#33

On May 03 2013 08:22 Subspace wrote:

Show nested quote +

Terran already has the best scouting options in game...

That's right ~~overlords~~ scans(?) are so useful at scouting proxies...

shin_toss

Philippines2589 Posts

May 02 2013 23:40 GMT

#34

Carrier speed buff too pls

BAAEEMM

Germany412 Posts

May 02 2013 23:40 GMT

#35

On May 03 2013 08:13 semmeL wrote:
Why doesnt they want muta vs muta, was fun to watch in sc1 also. Sure it's hard for the players but, where is the problem with rewarding the better micro/macroing player that has better multitasking.
Oracle speedbuff seems too strong and will buff the allin also, cause u can micro it better.

Hope the changes wont go live like that after testing.

Because there are no Scourge in SC2 which greatly limits the amount of micro involved and makes ZvZ very random and boring.

-NegativeZero-

United States2142 Posts

May 02 2013 23:41 GMT

#36

How has Blizzard not yet realized that buffing hydra anti-air will basically solve all of zerg's anti-air problems?

DeathDyingDoomKiller

Canada91 Posts

May 02 2013 23:41 GMT

#37

YES. All Muta V Muta ZvZ is so horrible to watch

convention

United States622 Posts

May 02 2013 23:41 GMT

#38

On May 03 2013 08:36 hereticfurby wrote:
Fuck that, Oracle is a bullshit unit, requires infinite scouting time to see if proxied or not, and now it's not even necessary to proxy due to how fast they get from point A-B. Oracles hit before medivacs/Vikings are out and forces a Terran to sacrifice way too much tech options in order to have a chance at defending, and even then it's never enough because you get 3-4gate Stargated and you're absolutely fucked. It's ridiculously hard to be able to scout all that at any time and properly defend at 8 minutes. Not to mention that a Terran can't really do anything until at least 10 minutes because of the Photon overcharge, almost entirely nullifying every early Terran all-in. Zerg has no AA answer unless they forcibly use Spore Crawlers, which sacrifices their economy and tech ridiculously. All-in-all, the Oracle ALREADY causes your opponent to sacrifice WAY too much infrastructure just for POSSIBLE defense, and it is not even guaranteed defense.

Plus if you take really ANY damage from an oracle, since your tech was already heavily delayed, you're playing catch up with a Protoss the entire game, which is bad considering how the 12-14 minute mark is the biggest turning point in a TvP. So you'd be screwed once that time hit and it would be so one sided.

Actually: turbovac is the OP unit. It requires infinite scouting to find the proxy starport with mines or hellbats. It doesn't even need to be proxied with how fast it can boost across the map. Protoss has to sacrifice way too much economy to even be able to defend against it, and basically can never take a third. Then the terran can just get a few racks with reactors with the medivacs and it's already over. Not to mention protoss can't even attack terran because of bunkers, which nullify every protoss all-in. Plus, the medivac will always kill a few workers even with a queen or photon overcharge, which forces even more static defense. All-in-all, before the boost the medivac already forced way too much infrastructure for defense, which isn't even guaranteed since the medivac has boost so you can't even kill it off.

By the way, I like the turbo-vac, I like the oracle. The point is that every race has that super annoying unit that can deny stuff all game long, like lings for zerg.

Madera

Sweden2672 Posts

May 02 2013 23:42 GMT

#39

On May 03 2013 08:24 convention wrote:
Why does the oracle change receive so much negative feedback? I don't recall seeing any oracles in the GSL yet, I rarely see them in other tournaments. The speed buff does not help with all-ins (who cares if you saved your two oracles when you have no army and are down 15 workers). It is an incredibly micro-intensive unit. Don't we want those units to be viable?

Because speed isn't the problem with the oracle. When used in PvT it's pretty much an all or nothing unit. Generally it either catches you off-guard and does game ending damage or you scout it and prepare and it does nothing. The problem with the oracle is that it doesn't have a solid mid-game transition to justify spending money on a stargate unless you're continuing down that tech path or using it with your all-in.

WorldEater

United Kingdom24 Posts

May 02 2013 23:42 GMT

#40

Your on so much crack blizzard its unreal, give the game more time you morons.

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