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On May 06 2013 05:14 ffadicted wrote:
Oracles are essentially useless right now imo, this will be a welcome change. Right now, Protoss is still in need of a devastating harassment unit, and still remains the only race that can't really do massive damages through harassment with units they'd making anyway (aka mutalisks or everything terran has that goes in a medivac).
Excited to see where this change leads.
Oracles are pretty much as devastating as you are going to get them. The problem is they are so devastating everyone who suspects oracles might be coming will make every mineral line 100% oracle proof.
And toss also have for example warp prism harrasment, either with zealots or HT drops.
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On May 05 2013 03:38 FirstGear wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 00:31 mongoose22 wrote:On May 04 2013 18:26 FirstGear wrote:On May 04 2013 17:09 convention wrote:
I don't think we should add hp and shields to the oracle. The idea behind the unit is something that has high potential but is very hard to use (kind of like phoenixes). And so I think it should be kept with low hp to punish people when they are a little too cavalier with the unit, but it should have high enough speed that people who have the ultimate minimap awareness (Rain, Parting, Creator come to mind) are able to never lose a single oracle. Currently it won't matter, it just isn't fast enough to escape a lot of situations. The minor speed buff will allow it get away from all units (I think?) if you react very quickly, but it will still die really fast if you react too slowly. Its already as fast or faster than every terran unit except a boosted medivac. At its current speed, actually not. The oracle with its current 3.375 speed is equal in speed to stimmed marines and marauders; reapers, hellions, and medivacs with afterburners are faster than it. Increasing the speed to 4 makes it faster than everything Terran except the hellions and boosted medivacs. My bad, I was thinking of units that can damage/threaten the oracle.
Well then, your boosted medivac exception is totally valid.  The short of is that no Terran air unit has any chance of catching up to an oracle (or a phoenix) in a speed race. Currently stimmed marines can keep pace with an oracle and can catch it if the oracle has to turn (marines basically have instantaneous acceleration); with the speed boost oracles will be able to outrun stimmed marines as well once they get a full head of steam.
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On May 06 2013 05:42 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 05:14 ffadicted wrote:
Oracles are essentially useless right now imo, this will be a welcome change. Right now, Protoss is still in need of a devastating harassment unit, and still remains the only race that can't really do massive damages through harassment with units they'd making anyway (aka mutalisks or everything terran has that goes in a medivac).
Excited to see where this change leads. Oracles are pretty much as devastating as you are going to get them. The problem is they are so devastating everyone who suspects oracles might be coming will make every mineral line 100% oracle proof. And toss also have for example warp prism harrasment, either with zealots or HT drops.
Warp prism harassment is useless against Terran. Zealots kill buildings well, they don't kill workers. It's good against Zerg because you can kill a hatchery or tech buildings, it's useless against Terran because of lift. HT drops are just bad in general, even if it works out you're just trading gas for minerals.
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On May 06 2013 02:18 massivez wrote:
Yeh, while not as onesided as TvZ after the queen patch. Terran was favored against zerg before the patch, thing was the hellions let Terran play very greedy, while beïng save against most allins. After the patch terran just had a harder time knowing when to play greedy or defensive because they lost their mapcontrol. Terran IS scary if they can get their third early on uncontested. Once the production kicks in, it's rly hard to break a terran without totally crushing their army.
The same is happening now, arguably Terran have more defensive options now with hellbats, widow mines, siege tech on factory without tech lab. You see the top tier terrans play ultra greedy (Innovation, Flash), taking a third at around 9-9.30. Defending this with only a few hellions and widow mines. With some good micro, you shouldn't get surrounded by Zerglings offcreep.
I gotta say the matchup is more fun to watch, but fun gameplay doesn't mean balance. The terran army is just too cost efficiënt against zerg while also beïng bulletproof in the macro department. Anyway im still liking blizzards aproach, it's easy to get overboard with nerfs or buffs.
The issue was (and still is) that marines are basically invincible off-creep. They move faster than banelings off creep, so you need infestors to kill them. The hellions would prevent any creep spread which led to the marines containing the Zerg in, as he had no way to ever take a third base without lair tech and infestors. At this point Terran would be on 3 saturated bases and the win was easy.
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On May 06 2013 08:27 Xequecal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 02:18 massivez wrote:
Yeh, while not as onesided as TvZ after the queen patch. Terran was favored against zerg before the patch, thing was the hellions let Terran play very greedy, while beïng save against most allins. After the patch terran just had a harder time knowing when to play greedy or defensive because they lost their mapcontrol. Terran IS scary if they can get their third early on uncontested. Once the production kicks in, it's rly hard to break a terran without totally crushing their army.
The same is happening now, arguably Terran have more defensive options now with hellbats, widow mines, siege tech on factory without tech lab. You see the top tier terrans play ultra greedy (Innovation, Flash), taking a third at around 9-9.30. Defending this with only a few hellions and widow mines. With some good micro, you shouldn't get surrounded by Zerglings offcreep.
I gotta say the matchup is more fun to watch, but fun gameplay doesn't mean balance. The terran army is just too cost efficiënt against zerg while also beïng bulletproof in the macro department. Anyway im still liking blizzards aproach, it's easy to get overboard with nerfs or buffs. The issue was (and still is) that marines are basically invincible off-creep. They move faster than banelings off creep, so you need infestors to kill them. The hellions would prevent any creep spread which led to the marines containing the Zerg in, as he had no way to ever take a third base without lair tech and infestors. At this point Terran would be on 3 saturated bases and the win was easy.
Funny how even with "invincible" marines and "easy wins" ZvT still had a 50% win ratio at that point.
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I like the burrow enhancement, as the detection options start to outweigh the usefulness of it. So it being cheaper, can open up some other uses for it, such as burrow lings all around the map for vision in combination with creep spread, because why not ^^ The oracle change, seems to be making it a more micro intensive unit, like the reaper and mutalisks (which also recieved upgrade in HOTS). While oracles are powerful, they also die easier, perhaps they can dodge widow mines now? ^^
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On May 06 2013 02:18 massivez wrote:
Yeh, while not as onesided as TvZ after the queen patch. Terran was favored against zerg before the patch, thing was the hellions let Terran play very greedy, while beïng save against most allins. After the patch terran just had a harder time knowing when to play greedy or defensive because they lost their mapcontrol. Terran IS scary if they can get their third early on uncontested. Once the production kicks in, it's rly hard to break a terran without totally crushing their army.
The same is happening now, arguably Terran have more defensive options now with hellbats, widow mines, siege tech on factory without tech lab. You see the top tier terrans play ultra greedy (Innovation, Flash), taking a third at around 9-9.30. Defending this with only a few hellions and widow mines. With some good micro, you shouldn't get surrounded by Zerglings offcreep.
I gotta say the matchup is more fun to watch, but fun gameplay doesn't mean balance. The terran army is just too cost efficiënt against zerg while also beïng bulletproof in the macro department. Anyway im still liking blizzards aproach, it's easy to get overboard with nerfs or buffs.
Well, if the terrans plays greedy, the zerg can generally scout it and play even more greedy... The number of times i saw stephano going 3-4 bases, mass droning without anything more than 20 zerglings on the map because his opponent did a 3CC build...
On May 06 2013 08:44 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 08:27 Xequecal wrote:
The issue was (and still is) that marines are basically invincible off-creep. They move faster than banelings off creep, so you need infestors to kill them. The hellions would prevent any creep spread which led to the marines containing the Zerg in, as he had no way to ever take a third base without lair tech and infestors. At this point Terran would be on 3 saturated bases and the win was easy. Funny how even with "invincible" marines and "easy wins" ZvT still had a 50% win ratio at that point.
Offcreep you need to not play braindead amove into the bio. Prepare a flank, mindgame your opponent to force him moving where you want...
And ZvT was more a 55% for terrans, 45% for zergs. Which his very bad on the ladder, when you are supposed to play against a evenly strong opponent.
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On May 06 2013 14:19 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 02:18 massivez wrote:
Yeh, while not as onesided as TvZ after the queen patch. Terran was favored against zerg before the patch, thing was the hellions let Terran play very greedy, while beïng save against most allins. After the patch terran just had a harder time knowing when to play greedy or defensive because they lost their mapcontrol. Terran IS scary if they can get their third early on uncontested. Once the production kicks in, it's rly hard to break a terran without totally crushing their army.
The same is happening now, arguably Terran have more defensive options now with hellbats, widow mines, siege tech on factory without tech lab. You see the top tier terrans play ultra greedy (Innovation, Flash), taking a third at around 9-9.30. Defending this with only a few hellions and widow mines. With some good micro, you shouldn't get surrounded by Zerglings offcreep.
I gotta say the matchup is more fun to watch, but fun gameplay doesn't mean balance. The terran army is just too cost efficiënt against zerg while also beïng bulletproof in the macro department. Anyway im still liking blizzards aproach, it's easy to get overboard with nerfs or buffs. Well, if the terrans plays greedy, the zerg can generally scout it and play even more greedy... The number of times i saw stephano going 3-4 bases, mass droning without anything more than 20 zerglings on the map because his opponent did a 3CC build...Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 08:44 Bagi wrote:On May 06 2013 08:27 Xequecal wrote:
The issue was (and still is) that marines are basically invincible off-creep. They move faster than banelings off creep, so you need infestors to kill them. The hellions would prevent any creep spread which led to the marines containing the Zerg in, as he had no way to ever take a third base without lair tech and infestors. At this point Terran would be on 3 saturated bases and the win was easy. Funny how even with "invincible" marines and "easy wins" ZvT still had a 50% win ratio at that point. Offcreep you need to not play braindead amove into the bio. Prepare a flank, mindgame your opponent to force him moving where you want... And ZvT was more a 55% for terrans, 45% for zergs. Which his very bad on the ladder, when you are supposed to play against a evenly strong opponent.
You are talking about WOL right?
Because in HotS.
Terran can play just as greedy as Zerg.
Zerg can't just take 4-5 base easily in HotS anymore.
The nerf will come soon to Terran.
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On May 06 2013 05:17 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 03:57 NeThZOR wrote:On May 06 2013 00:51 Piledriver wrote:On May 04 2013 02:49 rQvicious wrote:
blizz you better; think about this carefully all i ever see are terran nerfs and protoss\zerg buffs...
already the fucking protoss planetary fortress is op; and now you wanna gaurentee at least one oracle in us "terran" players mineral lines every game.. Nothing wrong with that. We have to deal with your widow mine drop shit every game. Just as he said, widow mine drops are a common sight in TvP. I'd rather that Blizzard ignore the oracle for now and concentrate more on how they can nerf Terran a bit. because you face it on the ladder? oh boy. sac 1 probe and be safe forever. the times where widow mine drops win games seem to be over @ gsl. I'm not really sure about the burrow buff. burrowed roaches are a nasty thing to deal with.
This is such a pointless argument. I can say the same thing. "Build a turret in your mineral line and be safe forever". The only problem is, you want to go for your greedy fast expand + fast medivac + widow mine every game (while skimping on marines) without adapting even a teeny bit, and still want to be perfectly safe against airplay. Protoss puts a lot more gas into oracle harass, so its only logical that you spend somewhat equivalent minerals to defend against it.
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Which I could agree with more if protos didn't have their planetary nexus. Personally my problem isn't so much oracle harrasment, or even the myriad all-ins toss have, but that they themselves are so resistant against all-ins by casting a single spell from a hero unit. At least mothership vortex meant you had to risk the mothership, now blizzard made exactly what they said they didn't want and also removed skill requirement from both sides. Vortex vs zerg in PvZ late game was far from good gameplay, but at least positioning played a very important role there.
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On May 06 2013 15:18 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 14:19 Insoleet wrote:On May 06 2013 02:18 massivez wrote:
Yeh, while not as onesided as TvZ after the queen patch. Terran was favored against zerg before the patch, thing was the hellions let Terran play very greedy, while beïng save against most allins. After the patch terran just had a harder time knowing when to play greedy or defensive because they lost their mapcontrol. Terran IS scary if they can get their third early on uncontested. Once the production kicks in, it's rly hard to break a terran without totally crushing their army.
The same is happening now, arguably Terran have more defensive options now with hellbats, widow mines, siege tech on factory without tech lab. You see the top tier terrans play ultra greedy (Innovation, Flash), taking a third at around 9-9.30. Defending this with only a few hellions and widow mines. With some good micro, you shouldn't get surrounded by Zerglings offcreep.
I gotta say the matchup is more fun to watch, but fun gameplay doesn't mean balance. The terran army is just too cost efficiënt against zerg while also beïng bulletproof in the macro department. Anyway im still liking blizzards aproach, it's easy to get overboard with nerfs or buffs. Well, if the terrans plays greedy, the zerg can generally scout it and play even more greedy... The number of times i saw stephano going 3-4 bases, mass droning without anything more than 20 zerglings on the map because his opponent did a 3CC build...On May 06 2013 08:44 Bagi wrote:On May 06 2013 08:27 Xequecal wrote:
The issue was (and still is) that marines are basically invincible off-creep. They move faster than banelings off creep, so you need infestors to kill them. The hellions would prevent any creep spread which led to the marines containing the Zerg in, as he had no way to ever take a third base without lair tech and infestors. At this point Terran would be on 3 saturated bases and the win was easy. Funny how even with "invincible" marines and "easy wins" ZvT still had a 50% win ratio at that point. Offcreep you need to not play braindead amove into the bio. Prepare a flank, mindgame your opponent to force him moving where you want... And ZvT was more a 55% for terrans, 45% for zergs. Which his very bad on the ladder, when you are supposed to play against a evenly strong opponent. You are talking about WOL right? Because in HotS. Terran can play just as greedy as Zerg. Zerg can't just take 4-5 base easily in HotS anymore. The nerf will come soon to Terran.
True, and then months later zergs finally find out about something called the viper, about burrowed banelings everywhere, about 10:00 roachbusts (that basicly destroy every terran that doesn't make tanks), about swarmhosts, about constant banelingdrops with the speedlords, about roach hydra viper, etc. But yes, this will take a while so terran will probably get nerfed first.
Then after a few months we will be where WOL was at the end, and that was soooooo much fun, right? That was all fair and perfect.
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On May 06 2013 17:29 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 15:18 FakeDeath wrote:On May 06 2013 14:19 Insoleet wrote:On May 06 2013 02:18 massivez wrote:
Yeh, while not as onesided as TvZ after the queen patch. Terran was favored against zerg before the patch, thing was the hellions let Terran play very greedy, while beïng save against most allins. After the patch terran just had a harder time knowing when to play greedy or defensive because they lost their mapcontrol. Terran IS scary if they can get their third early on uncontested. Once the production kicks in, it's rly hard to break a terran without totally crushing their army.
The same is happening now, arguably Terran have more defensive options now with hellbats, widow mines, siege tech on factory without tech lab. You see the top tier terrans play ultra greedy (Innovation, Flash), taking a third at around 9-9.30. Defending this with only a few hellions and widow mines. With some good micro, you shouldn't get surrounded by Zerglings offcreep.
I gotta say the matchup is more fun to watch, but fun gameplay doesn't mean balance. The terran army is just too cost efficiënt against zerg while also beïng bulletproof in the macro department. Anyway im still liking blizzards aproach, it's easy to get overboard with nerfs or buffs. Well, if the terrans plays greedy, the zerg can generally scout it and play even more greedy... The number of times i saw stephano going 3-4 bases, mass droning without anything more than 20 zerglings on the map because his opponent did a 3CC build...On May 06 2013 08:44 Bagi wrote:On May 06 2013 08:27 Xequecal wrote:
The issue was (and still is) that marines are basically invincible off-creep. They move faster than banelings off creep, so you need infestors to kill them. The hellions would prevent any creep spread which led to the marines containing the Zerg in, as he had no way to ever take a third base without lair tech and infestors. At this point Terran would be on 3 saturated bases and the win was easy. Funny how even with "invincible" marines and "easy wins" ZvT still had a 50% win ratio at that point. Offcreep you need to not play braindead amove into the bio. Prepare a flank, mindgame your opponent to force him moving where you want... And ZvT was more a 55% for terrans, 45% for zergs. Which his very bad on the ladder, when you are supposed to play against a evenly strong opponent. You are talking about WOL right? Because in HotS. Terran can play just as greedy as Zerg. Zerg can't just take 4-5 base easily in HotS anymore. The nerf will come soon to Terran.
True, and then months later zergs finally find out about something called the viper, about burrowed banelings everywhere, about 10:00 roachbusts (that basicly destroy every terran that doesn't make tanks), about swarmhosts, about constant banelingdrops with the speedlords, about roach hydra viper, etc. But yes, this will take a while so terran will probably get nerfed first. Then after a few months we will be where WOL was at the end, and that was soooooo much fun, right? That was all fair and perfect.
Na, because Terrans will find out about siege tanks, mass thor, that they have an invincible air army in TvZ, that they can actually have complete mapcontrol with marine/turbovac, that they can target their widow mines, that they can use empty medivacs to force a whole army around and that scans are actually really good and makes them bulletproof against retarded builds like midgame roachbusts. Oh well and they may discover that ghosts are really good, but for that their opponents would actually need to start using casters, and why would you do so, when you can just outmicro infestors and vipers with marines only. 
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Has anyone test the timings of burrow? I'm curious if it comes early enough to deny expos or to use as early burrow traps, such as vs Hellion openings, or early baneling bombs in ZvZ. I'm also wondering if it comes out fast enough that it can be used to burrow drones when harass like drops/hellions/phoenixs/mutas etc come in.
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On May 06 2013 17:29 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 15:18 FakeDeath wrote:On May 06 2013 14:19 Insoleet wrote:On May 06 2013 02:18 massivez wrote:
Yeh, while not as onesided as TvZ after the queen patch. Terran was favored against zerg before the patch, thing was the hellions let Terran play very greedy, while beïng save against most allins. After the patch terran just had a harder time knowing when to play greedy or defensive because they lost their mapcontrol. Terran IS scary if they can get their third early on uncontested. Once the production kicks in, it's rly hard to break a terran without totally crushing their army.
The same is happening now, arguably Terran have more defensive options now with hellbats, widow mines, siege tech on factory without tech lab. You see the top tier terrans play ultra greedy (Innovation, Flash), taking a third at around 9-9.30. Defending this with only a few hellions and widow mines. With some good micro, you shouldn't get surrounded by Zerglings offcreep.
I gotta say the matchup is more fun to watch, but fun gameplay doesn't mean balance. The terran army is just too cost efficiënt against zerg while also beïng bulletproof in the macro department. Anyway im still liking blizzards aproach, it's easy to get overboard with nerfs or buffs. Well, if the terrans plays greedy, the zerg can generally scout it and play even more greedy... The number of times i saw stephano going 3-4 bases, mass droning without anything more than 20 zerglings on the map because his opponent did a 3CC build...On May 06 2013 08:44 Bagi wrote:On May 06 2013 08:27 Xequecal wrote:
The issue was (and still is) that marines are basically invincible off-creep. They move faster than banelings off creep, so you need infestors to kill them. The hellions would prevent any creep spread which led to the marines containing the Zerg in, as he had no way to ever take a third base without lair tech and infestors. At this point Terran would be on 3 saturated bases and the win was easy. Funny how even with "invincible" marines and "easy wins" ZvT still had a 50% win ratio at that point. Offcreep you need to not play braindead amove into the bio. Prepare a flank, mindgame your opponent to force him moving where you want... And ZvT was more a 55% for terrans, 45% for zergs. Which his very bad on the ladder, when you are supposed to play against a evenly strong opponent. You are talking about WOL right? Because in HotS. Terran can play just as greedy as Zerg. Zerg can't just take 4-5 base easily in HotS anymore. The nerf will come soon to Terran.
True, and then months later zergs finally find out about something called the viper, about burrowed banelings everywhere, about 10:00 roachbusts (that basicly destroy every terran that doesn't make tanks), about swarmhosts, about constant banelingdrops with the speedlords, about roach hydra viper, etc. But yes, this will take a while so terran will probably get nerfed first. Then after a few months we will be where WOL was at the end, and that was soooooo much fun, right? That was all fair and perfect.
WOL=/= HotS
WOL Infestor was overpowered.
It was an unit that was good vs everything.
There won't be a domination of Infestor/BL anymore.
Please tell me how many games where you actually still see Infestor/BL in HotS.
It's almost rare to see that composition.
Terran and Toss already got ways to deal with that already in HotS.
People are already using Roach/Hydra/Viper and Roachbusts.
SH will be not used in TvZ unless T goes mech which no one does(Bio+Mines are the best composition).
Baneling drops with speedlords and burrowed banelings are under-used.
This is HotS.
Not WOL anymore.
The role has changed.
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On May 06 2013 18:29 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 17:29 Snowbear wrote:On May 06 2013 15:18 FakeDeath wrote:On May 06 2013 14:19 Insoleet wrote:On May 06 2013 02:18 massivez wrote:
Yeh, while not as onesided as TvZ after the queen patch. Terran was favored against zerg before the patch, thing was the hellions let Terran play very greedy, while beïng save against most allins. After the patch terran just had a harder time knowing when to play greedy or defensive because they lost their mapcontrol. Terran IS scary if they can get their third early on uncontested. Once the production kicks in, it's rly hard to break a terran without totally crushing their army.
The same is happening now, arguably Terran have more defensive options now with hellbats, widow mines, siege tech on factory without tech lab. You see the top tier terrans play ultra greedy (Innovation, Flash), taking a third at around 9-9.30. Defending this with only a few hellions and widow mines. With some good micro, you shouldn't get surrounded by Zerglings offcreep.
I gotta say the matchup is more fun to watch, but fun gameplay doesn't mean balance. The terran army is just too cost efficiënt against zerg while also beïng bulletproof in the macro department. Anyway im still liking blizzards aproach, it's easy to get overboard with nerfs or buffs. Well, if the terrans plays greedy, the zerg can generally scout it and play even more greedy... The number of times i saw stephano going 3-4 bases, mass droning without anything more than 20 zerglings on the map because his opponent did a 3CC build...On May 06 2013 08:44 Bagi wrote:On May 06 2013 08:27 Xequecal wrote:
The issue was (and still is) that marines are basically invincible off-creep. They move faster than banelings off creep, so you need infestors to kill them. The hellions would prevent any creep spread which led to the marines containing the Zerg in, as he had no way to ever take a third base without lair tech and infestors. At this point Terran would be on 3 saturated bases and the win was easy. Funny how even with "invincible" marines and "easy wins" ZvT still had a 50% win ratio at that point. Offcreep you need to not play braindead amove into the bio. Prepare a flank, mindgame your opponent to force him moving where you want... And ZvT was more a 55% for terrans, 45% for zergs. Which his very bad on the ladder, when you are supposed to play against a evenly strong opponent. You are talking about WOL right? Because in HotS. Terran can play just as greedy as Zerg. Zerg can't just take 4-5 base easily in HotS anymore. The nerf will come soon to Terran.
True, and then months later zergs finally find out about something called the viper, about burrowed banelings everywhere, about 10:00 roachbusts (that basicly destroy every terran that doesn't make tanks), about swarmhosts, about constant banelingdrops with the speedlords, about roach hydra viper, etc. But yes, this will take a while so terran will probably get nerfed first. Then after a few months we will be where WOL was at the end, and that was soooooo much fun, right? That was all fair and perfect. WOL=/= HotS WOL Infestor was overpowered. It was an unit that was good vs everything. There won't be a domination of Infestor/BL anymore. Please tell me how many games where you actually still see Infestor/BL in HotS. It's almost rare to see that composition. Terran and Toss already got ways to deal with that already in HotS. People are already using Roach/Hydra/Viper and Roachbusts. SH will be not used in TvZ unless T goes mech which no one does(Bio+Mines are the best composition). Baneling drops with speedlords and burrowed banelings are under-used. This is HotS. Not WOL anymore. The role has changed.
no the role hasn´t changed. As a terran you are still on the clock and you have to make damage in the early game. The only difference now is that there are Ultralisk instead of BL´s.
Watch the practise session that Demuslim did against Suppy a couple of days ago. He crushed him a couple of times with super fast Ultralisks.
In my opinion the Widowmine needs a change to reduce the splash (Hellbats are the unit to build to ling/zealot) and increase the single target (maybe against massive or something like that).
And a BattleCruiser buff would be nice because its never used in serious games, not even in tvt anymore.
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moving burrow to t1 is a gimmicky, nothing else. buffing oracle is just a bad move, srsly. "A bunch of mutas should deal with that". Yep, it should, and if an Oracle forces a zerg into mutas, the p does have a stargate up for the hardcounter so... blizz omg. Rather nerf hallucinations from sentry, easywin scout of basically everything.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
And a BattleCruiser buff would be nice because its never used in serious games, not even in tvt anymore.
Really?
- double yamato because of cheaper cost with 100 energy instead 125 -> double corruptor/broodlord oneshot
- shared armor upgrades, meaning that Battlecruisers will earlier start with more armor
- nerfed Infested Terrans which were able to kill cruisers
- abduct? You have vikings, better seeker missiles and widow mines to shut down vipers
- vikings come with more armor too because of shared armor upgrades
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United Kingdom12023 Posts
On May 06 2013 18:38 boxerfred wrote:
moving burrow to t1 is a gimmicky, nothing else. buffing oracle is just a bad move, srsly. "A bunch of mutas should deal with that". Yep, it should, and if an Oracle forces a zerg into mutas, the p does have a stargate up for the hardcounter so... blizz omg. Rather nerf hallucinations from sentry, easywin scout of basically everything.
It's been t1 since the HoTS beta. When it was t2 nobody ever used it.
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On May 06 2013 18:38 USvBleakill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 18:29 FakeDeath wrote:On May 06 2013 17:29 Snowbear wrote:On May 06 2013 15:18 FakeDeath wrote:On May 06 2013 14:19 Insoleet wrote:On May 06 2013 02:18 massivez wrote:
Yeh, while not as onesided as TvZ after the queen patch. Terran was favored against zerg before the patch, thing was the hellions let Terran play very greedy, while beïng save against most allins. After the patch terran just had a harder time knowing when to play greedy or defensive because they lost their mapcontrol. Terran IS scary if they can get their third early on uncontested. Once the production kicks in, it's rly hard to break a terran without totally crushing their army.
The same is happening now, arguably Terran have more defensive options now with hellbats, widow mines, siege tech on factory without tech lab. You see the top tier terrans play ultra greedy (Innovation, Flash), taking a third at around 9-9.30. Defending this with only a few hellions and widow mines. With some good micro, you shouldn't get surrounded by Zerglings offcreep.
I gotta say the matchup is more fun to watch, but fun gameplay doesn't mean balance. The terran army is just too cost efficiënt against zerg while also beïng bulletproof in the macro department. Anyway im still liking blizzards aproach, it's easy to get overboard with nerfs or buffs. Well, if the terrans plays greedy, the zerg can generally scout it and play even more greedy... The number of times i saw stephano going 3-4 bases, mass droning without anything more than 20 zerglings on the map because his opponent did a 3CC build...On May 06 2013 08:44 Bagi wrote:On May 06 2013 08:27 Xequecal wrote:
The issue was (and still is) that marines are basically invincible off-creep. They move faster than banelings off creep, so you need infestors to kill them. The hellions would prevent any creep spread which led to the marines containing the Zerg in, as he had no way to ever take a third base without lair tech and infestors. At this point Terran would be on 3 saturated bases and the win was easy. Funny how even with "invincible" marines and "easy wins" ZvT still had a 50% win ratio at that point. Offcreep you need to not play braindead amove into the bio. Prepare a flank, mindgame your opponent to force him moving where you want... And ZvT was more a 55% for terrans, 45% for zergs. Which his very bad on the ladder, when you are supposed to play against a evenly strong opponent. You are talking about WOL right? Because in HotS. Terran can play just as greedy as Zerg. Zerg can't just take 4-5 base easily in HotS anymore. The nerf will come soon to Terran.
True, and then months later zergs finally find out about something called the viper, about burrowed banelings everywhere, about 10:00 roachbusts (that basicly destroy every terran that doesn't make tanks), about swarmhosts, about constant banelingdrops with the speedlords, about roach hydra viper, etc. But yes, this will take a while so terran will probably get nerfed first. Then after a few months we will be where WOL was at the end, and that was soooooo much fun, right? That was all fair and perfect. WOL=/= HotS WOL Infestor was overpowered. It was an unit that was good vs everything. There won't be a domination of Infestor/BL anymore. Please tell me how many games where you actually still see Infestor/BL in HotS. It's almost rare to see that composition. Terran and Toss already got ways to deal with that already in HotS. People are already using Roach/Hydra/Viper and Roachbusts. SH will be not used in TvZ unless T goes mech which no one does(Bio+Mines are the best composition). Baneling drops with speedlords and burrowed banelings are under-used. This is HotS. Not WOL anymore. The role has changed. no the role hasn´t changed. As a terran you are still on the clock and you have to make damage in the early game. The only difference now is that there are Ultralisk instead of BL´s. Watch the practise session that Demuslim did against Suppy a couple of days ago. He crushed him a couple of times with super fast Ultralisks. In my opinion the Widowmine needs a change to reduce the splash (Hellbats are the unit to build to ling/zealot) and increase the single target (maybe against massive or something like that). And a BattleCruiser buff would be nice because its never used in serious games, not even in tvt anymore.
lol what? Terran on a clock? You have bio and biomech and mech armies that beat anything in the right ratios. Extremely powerful drop and counterattack play with the medivac that buys incredible amounts of time to adjust your army.
You have an airarmy that I can't remember to ever see lose in WoL - with the strong infestor and the weaker raven and the far longer transitioning time due to upgrades...
If you have trouble with Ultras - build marauders in time. Yeah, thank god there is one unit left that can break the 30marines/minute rally. But if you think it's broken because pure marine/mine can't deal with it, I can't help you...
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