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On May 02 2013 14:54 GreyKnight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 07:51 Toosneaky wrote:On May 02 2013 07:32 GreyKnight wrote:On May 02 2013 07:18 Toosneaky wrote:
I agree with the earlier points made in favor of them playing on NA.
Lol, guys. So, what happens when down the line RO 16 is all koreans? We just play everything on Korea server rite????? Might as well call it wcs psuedo korea at that point.
You play wcs america, you play on NA. Plain and simple. Ro16 is offline genius. I'm glad you took the EXAMPLE so literally. Use your imagination. The point stays the same with RO XX with 90% koreans in it. Because they made a system so that sort of scenario wouldn't be possible? Your argument was entirely based on a fallacy.
Since you lack imagination, I will create a scenario that works for him. Next season (WCS AM Season 2) will have 32 Koreans and so it will all be played on KR server because they will all be Koreans.
But I don't even agree with that argument. I think the server the players are playing on is meaningless and the only relevant thing is whether it's WCS America and the offline finals are in America or whether it's WCS Korea and the offline finals (actually everything) is in Korea. If they want only people from North/South America to play in the WCS AM, then they can easily enforce it (using citizenship...). They clearly did not want that, so making it be played on NA server is stupid.
Yay! I beat BOTH you!
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On May 02 2013 07:47 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 07:19 eX Killy wrote:
how about those that dont live in america sign up for the region that they actually live in
Why? These are open tournaments. They're all open to players globally. Just because it says WCS America at the top we have to get touchy about it? I mean, Blizzard and MLG are responsible for the tournament, how can you have a problem with professionals signing up for a tournament they're 100% allowed to play in? And why only those that don't live in America? Are they some kind of exception that you don't care if they play WCS Europe or fly out to try WCS Korea?
? theres no problem with players signing up to play in another region. theres a problem with players signing up for a far away region that has no benefit with the exception of having easier opponents, then complaining about the distance and the lag that comes with it while using the excuse that it'd bring "bring down the quality of the game". this wouldnt be a problem if they didnt put themselves in the position to begin with.
edit: and i dont get your 2nd paragraph? who in their right mind from na would want to play in wcs korea? that aside, if they want to, they can, but even koreans themselves dont want to play in wcs korea, as evident by this situation, so gl with that one.
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Afaik both Major and Hero were invited to WCS AM right? It's kind of a weird move to invite players which will have to deal with this in a forseeable future and directly harm the quality of the games with something that can be fixed within the SC client.
"But it's WCS AM and it should be played in NA because there are rules and I don't think that...." Just shut it. This is what happens when you invite people that you know lives in Korea to the World Championship Series America, if there's a way to make the games better (which no lag WILL do) then by all means you should do it and spectators should encourage that, doing otherwise is just asking for lesser quality in YOUR ENTERTAINMENT just over a technicality that should'nt have happened in the first place.
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Only NA natives should be in WCS: North America anyways. What's the point of cultivating a local scene, when Korea is involved. They should play their games on the NA server.
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On May 02 2013 15:13 eX Killy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 07:47 oBlade wrote:On May 02 2013 07:19 eX Killy wrote:
how about those that dont live in america sign up for the region that they actually live in
Why? These are open tournaments. They're all open to players globally. Just because it says WCS America at the top we have to get touchy about it? I mean, Blizzard and MLG are responsible for the tournament, how can you have a problem with professionals signing up for a tournament they're 100% allowed to play in? And why only those that don't live in America? Are they some kind of exception that you don't care if they play WCS Europe or fly out to try WCS Korea? ? theres no problem with players signing up to play in another region. theres a problem with players signing up for a far away region that has no benefit with the exception of having easier opponents, then complaining about the distance and the lag that comes with it while using the excuse that it'd bring "bring down the quality of the game". this wouldnt be a problem if they didnt put themselves in the position to begin with. edit: and i dont get your 2nd paragraph? who in their right mind from na would want to play in wcs korea? that aside, if they want to, they can, but even koreans themselves dont want to play in wcs korea, as evident by this situation, so gl with that one.
AGAIN, we are not talking about non american against american matchs. There is no reason to give them lag if we can avoid it. Of course, everyone agrees that they have to deal with it when playing non korean.
Only NA natives should be in WCS: North America anyways. What's the point of cultivating a local scene, when Korea is involved. They should play their games on the NA server.
Okay, but you'll have 2000$ prize pool total, like a league with tier 3 players only deserve?
Or maybe you want some koreans, because without them the level of play isn't suiting for this level of tournament.
It's a choice to make, and blizzard made the choice to open it. The other choice was to have a baby league for NA players to keep playing isolated and not try to improve their level of play.
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On May 02 2013 15:34 Rygasm wrote:
Only NA natives should be in WCS: North America anyways. What's the point of cultivating a local scene, when Korea is involved. They should play their games on the NA server.
When do people realize it has never been called WCS: North America?
It's WCS America.
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If you don't want to play on America don't play WCS America.
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On May 02 2013 15:34 Rygasm wrote:
Only NA natives should be in WCS: North America anyways. What's the point of cultivating a local scene, when Korea is involved. They should play their games on the NA server.
People still believe this thread is about this ? A thread where you can just come rant some shit and palm yourself in the back?
I have read entire pages of exactly this quote on a thread that has nothing to do with it. This is not about how WCS AM (WCS AM, remember, not WCS NA) should be, this thread is about 2 players who live in the same country and are not allowed to play in the same region so they can show off the best game they can do. It's in detriment of the players, but specially, to the viewers.
If the two players, were from the americas but lived on europe, i am pretty sure people would just shut their mouths, like they have had done in so many online events that had happened in the past and if the players were in the same region.
But sure, let's focus our frustration in the two players, one of them, a Mexican player who is in a kespa teamhouse trying to be the best player he can be, and another, a korean player who have been playing in so many international events and is from a foreign team.
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This is basically a choice between pressing one button for more lag and one button for less lag, and people think they should take the former just so it makes them feel better about the format...
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On May 02 2013 15:58 00Visor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 15:34 Rygasm wrote:
Only NA natives should be in WCS: North America anyways. What's the point of cultivating a local scene, when Korea is involved. They should play their games on the NA server. When do people realize it has never been called WCS: North America? It's WCS America.
The name is not really important anyway. Maybe they should have named it WCS Americas since it includes (looking at invites) both North and South America.
But no, they should not play on NA because it doesn't actually -do- anything. People need to stop coming into this thread and writing like, 2 sentences saying how it should be played on NA server. Anything you say in 2 sentences has undoubtedly been said before in this thread and so does not provide any new discussion (other than this obviously).
Reasons why it should be played on KR:
--It makes the games better (obvious reason which should take priority over almost anything else)
--(According to Nazgul and Bumblebee) The server which the matches would be played was not specifically stated in the rules.
--Both players WANT this, which goes with point 1. Hell, MajOr is even from North America!
--Playing on the Korean server for KR vs KR does not harm WCS AM in ANY way whatsoever.
Reasons why it should be played on NA:
--MLG evidently had a rule and they want to be consistent with their rules, regardless of how bad they may be.
--It is WCS America(s) which means it should played on the server within it's "region".
Flaws with 'Reasons why it should be played on NA':
--When you make a poor decision, it's always a good idea to fix it in the future, even if it isn't technically the same as how previous players played (Nestea and Apocalypse). Neither of them wanted NA server either, just neither of them cared enough about it (I guess?). If you asked them if they would be okay for the tournament to go on with KR vs KR matches being played on KR server, I'm sure they would gladly say "yes".
--The location of the server has nothing to do with the tournament itself. The server is simply a way for two players to connect. Ideally, they would all be playing on LAN clients that had ZERO (0) latency. Not through some silly server. But obviously, that would require them to play offline in the same location. Plus, we don't have LAN yet LOLOLOL.
Hopefully this helps you (anyone who made a short post saying it should be played on NA server) understand.
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let's be the best at being the worst
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On May 02 2013 15:11 Blargh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 14:54 GreyKnight wrote:On May 02 2013 07:51 Toosneaky wrote:On May 02 2013 07:32 GreyKnight wrote:On May 02 2013 07:18 Toosneaky wrote:
I agree with the earlier points made in favor of them playing on NA.
Lol, guys. So, what happens when down the line RO 16 is all koreans? We just play everything on Korea server rite????? Might as well call it wcs psuedo korea at that point.
You play wcs america, you play on NA. Plain and simple. Ro16 is offline genius. I'm glad you took the EXAMPLE so literally. Use your imagination. The point stays the same with RO XX with 90% koreans in it. Because they made a system so that sort of scenario wouldn't be possible? Your argument was entirely based on a fallacy. Since you lack imagination, I will create a scenario that works for him. Next season (WCS AM Season 2) will have 32 Koreans and so it will all be played on KR server because they will all be Koreans. But I don't even agree with that argument. I think the server the players are playing on is meaningless and the only relevant thing is whether it's WCS America and the offline finals are in America or whether it's WCS Korea and the offline finals (actually everything) is in Korea. If they want only people from North/South America to play in the WCS AM, then they can easily enforce it (using citizenship...). They clearly did not want that, so making it be played on NA server is stupid. Yay! I beat BOTH you!
They give invites for WCS, that's not possible unless every American player declines.
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On May 02 2013 15:53 Nyvis wrote:Show nested quote +Only NA natives should be in WCS: North America anyways. What's the point of cultivating a local scene, when Korea is involved. They should play their games on the NA server. Okay, but you'll have 2000$ prize pool total, like a league with tier 3 players only deserve?
Question: Where did you get the idea that a certain play level means you 'deserve' a certain prize pool? The prize pool is whatever the ones who pay for it want to put in it, and they also decide the rules. Yes in general a tournament gets more exposure with better players, and that often is the goal of those who are sponsoring it. At the same time a tournament for only players from a specific region can also create more exposure in that part of the world.
I could also for example understand that it is really bad advertisement for Blizzard if WCS Korea = Koreans playing offline part in Korea, WCS America = Koreans playing offline part in America and WCS Europe = Koreans playing offline part in Europe. That really isn't going to boost SC2's sales and reputation Europe/America.
Now at the same time I don't think it will be that bad, however my point also wasn't that, it was that the prize pool doesn't only depend on the skill level of the participants, and that a certain skill level doesn't mean you 'only deserve' a certain prize pool.
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On May 02 2013 16:17 Blargh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 15:58 00Visor wrote:On May 02 2013 15:34 Rygasm wrote:
Only NA natives should be in WCS: North America anyways. What's the point of cultivating a local scene, when Korea is involved. They should play their games on the NA server. When do people realize it has never been called WCS: North America? It's WCS America. The name is not really important anyway. Maybe they should have named it WCS Americas since it includes (looking at invites) both North and South America.
America = Americas
That's why it's named that way. It would be clearer for english speakers to have been named Americas, i will give you that, specially considering it's how the region is called on battlenet too.
Anyways, i agree with your post, but feel sad that most shitposters will still shitpost because they are just reading the title and maybe, the first reactions to it 
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So many butt hurt NA fanboys posting way too much in this thread. Most of us care about GOOD QUALITY SC2, not about how mad you are that koreans taking out the trash. WCS AM could be all Korean for all I care. Would probably see better games. If they are both in KOREA, they should play on the KR server. Is that a difficult thing to understand?? Please refrain from flooding this thread with your nonsense.
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On May 02 2013 16:22 GreyKnight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 15:11 Blargh wrote:On May 02 2013 14:54 GreyKnight wrote:On May 02 2013 07:51 Toosneaky wrote:On May 02 2013 07:32 GreyKnight wrote:On May 02 2013 07:18 Toosneaky wrote:
I agree with the earlier points made in favor of them playing on NA.
Lol, guys. So, what happens when down the line RO 16 is all koreans? We just play everything on Korea server rite????? Might as well call it wcs psuedo korea at that point.
You play wcs america, you play on NA. Plain and simple. Ro16 is offline genius. I'm glad you took the EXAMPLE so literally. Use your imagination. The point stays the same with RO XX with 90% koreans in it. Because they made a system so that sort of scenario wouldn't be possible? Your argument was entirely based on a fallacy. Since you lack imagination, I will create a scenario that works for him. Next season (WCS AM Season 2) will have 32 Koreans and so it will all be played on KR server because they will all be Koreans. But I don't even agree with that argument. I think the server the players are playing on is meaningless and the only relevant thing is whether it's WCS America and the offline finals are in America or whether it's WCS Korea and the offline finals (actually everything) is in Korea. If they want only people from North/South America to play in the WCS AM, then they can easily enforce it (using citizenship...). They clearly did not want that, so making it be played on NA server is stupid. Yay! I beat BOTH you! They give invites for WCS, that's not possible unless every American player declines.
I do believe I said next season (season 2!), which means that all of the invited Americans would have lost in this current season (so far they have, actually) and a bunch of Koreans beat them in the Challenger league, leaving only Koreans. But this is a silly argument.
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I hope everyone who thinks they should play on NA server since this is WCS NA gets a speeding ticket for going over the speed limit, even by 1 mph. Oh, and another ticket for not making a full, complete stop at every single stop sign.
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On May 02 2013 16:40 anrimayu wrote:
I hope everyone who thinks they should play on NA server since this is WCS NA gets a speeding ticket for going over the speed limit, even by 1 mph. Oh, and another ticket for not making a full, complete stop at every single stop sign.
I know I would be broke.
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I know that it may seem illogical to strictly follow rules which can occasionally result in illogical situations, but I think it's naive to believe that it is as simple as you should always make exceptions in this type of situation. There's a lot of value in strict adherence to rules and I think a lot of organizations out there agree with that and hence why you so often see strict, at times seemingly irrational, adherence to rules. Exceptions can quickly degrade a system and create all kinds of unforeseeable problems.
The victimization of those who seek exception to rules I think is being seen all too often in this WCS America. They are not victims. MLG is not a villain. It is simply a tournament running itself by their agreed upon rules. Perhaps this may create seemingly unjust or non-ideal scenarios, but that is just the necessary cost of keeping order.
I'm not saying that we can't debate whether the rule is good or not. I don't have anything against a healthy discussion on a rule and possibly a modification to the rule in the future.
But I do not think that there should be an exception to the rule handed out here in order to accommodate the players, and I hope they stand by their decision.
(I'm assuming this is indeed a rule and the interpretation of the administrator who told Major this was correct).
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Everybody raging about it being unfair that both players have to play on NA server despite both being in Korea are likely the same people who raged about Koreans being able to play in any WCS they want without (at this point) having to even leave Korea.
Its WCS NA which is hosted on the NA server end of story gg
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EPT
