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On May 02 2013 07:16 Ireniicas wrote:
If Players do not like it then they can move or play Korea WCS.
If you went into one of the many threads discussing or criticizing MLG's format (like the use of extended series), would "If players don't like it, they can move or play in NASL" be the extent of your thoughts on the matter?
On May 02 2013 07:19 eX Killy wrote:
how about those that dont live in america sign up for the region that they actually live in
Why? These are open tournaments. They're all open to players globally. Just because it says WCS America at the top we have to get touchy about it? I mean, Blizzard and MLG are responsible for the tournament, how can you have a problem with professionals signing up for a tournament they're 100% allowed to play in?
And why only those that don't live in America? Are they some kind of exception that you don't care if they play WCS Europe or fly out to try WCS Korea?
On May 02 2013 07:28 wangstra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 06:46 oBlade wrote:On May 02 2013 06:44 meadbert wrote:On May 02 2013 06:21 rauk wrote:
the only reason anyone wants two players living in KR to play on NA vs each other is to punish them, it's a pure and simple "fuck you," "koreans and mexicans taking our jobs so fuck you"
lol Does Korea let two Europeans playing in the Korean qualifiers play on the EU server? The GSL is offline. Genuine question. Is it actually offline? Or does offline here merely mean that its done in a studio? Aren't they playing online through B.Net? Blizz hasn't released any offline tools as far as I know.
Right, offline just means you have to physically be there, which normally for a game means you'd be playing offline/LAN. But SC2 always connects to the internet.
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On May 02 2013 07:32 GreyKnight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 07:18 Toosneaky wrote:
I agree with the earlier points made in favor of them playing on NA.
Lol, guys. So, what happens when down the line RO 16 is all koreans? We just play everything on Korea server rite????? Might as well call it wcs psuedo korea at that point.
You play wcs america, you play on NA. Plain and simple. Ro16 is offline genius.
I'm glad you took the EXAMPLE so literally. Use your imagination. The point stays the same with RO XX with 90% koreans in it.
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On May 02 2013 07:51 Toosneaky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 07:32 GreyKnight wrote:On May 02 2013 07:18 Toosneaky wrote:
I agree with the earlier points made in favor of them playing on NA.
Lol, guys. So, what happens when down the line RO 16 is all koreans? We just play everything on Korea server rite????? Might as well call it wcs psuedo korea at that point.
You play wcs america, you play on NA. Plain and simple. Ro16 is offline genius. I'm glad you took the EXAMPLE so literally. Use your imagination. The point stays the same with RO XX with 90% koreans in it.
No because it's a really, really awful point in this context.
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This thread continues to astound me.
People want to watch games marred by lag because Blizzard titled this event WCS America, but didn't region lock?
It's like the worst possible solution - you watch shitty games that still prevent the NA scene from developing because Koreans will win anyway with lag (see Nestea/Apoc last night).
It's just mind blowing. Either WCS America should've been region locked so this wouldn't be a problem, or they should allow for the best games possible to be shown (which means letting players play without lag on the KR server). Why is everyone supporting the worst option possible? Don't you want to see good games?
Not to mention I feel terrible for MajOr in all this. The reason MajOr is in Korea is because he wants to be the best player he can be. The only way to do that is to train in Korea - look at Naniwa, HuK, etc. He's sacrificed a tremendous amount and worked incredibly hard and everyone's response here is "hurr durr, should've lived in America". MajOr's one of the few players in this tournament from NA that I'd give a shot to make it deep in the tournament. The reason why he's able to do this is because he lives in Korea and has trained his butt off there. Let the guy represent the region by playing the best games possible without shit tons of lag. /endrant
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On May 02 2013 07:55 Swords wrote:
This thread continues to astound me.
People want to watch games marred by lag because Blizzard titled this event WCS America, but didn't region lock?
It's like the worst possible solution - you watch shitty games that still prevent the NA scene from developing because Koreans will win anyway with lag (see Nestea/Apoc last night).
It's just mind blowing. Either WCS America should've been region locked so this wouldn't be a problem, or they should allow for the best games possible to be shown (which means letting players play without lag on the KR server). Why is everyone supporting the worst option possible? Don't you want to see good games?
Not to mention I feel terrible for MajOr in all this. The reason MajOr is in Korea is because he wants to be the best player he can be. The only way to do that is to train in Korea - look at Naniwa, HuK, etc. He's sacrificed a tremendous amount and worked incredibly hard and everyone's response here is "hurr durr, should've lived in America". MajOr's one of the few players in this tournament from NA that I'd give a shot to make it deep in the tournament. The reason why he's able to do this is because he lives in Korea and has trained his butt off there. Let the guy represent the region by playing the best games possible without shit tons of lag. /endrant
Yeah pretty much what he said. This will blow up rapidly when ro16/8 etc is Kr vs Kr (this is pretty much guaranteed to happen anyway) and the games displayed are pretty terrible quality. WCS EU is already getting double WCS NA's viewership, this doesn't need to be compounded by MLG burying their head in the sand over formalities.
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On May 02 2013 07:40 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 07:22 serum321 wrote:
50 pages, has it even been mentioned that it is most likely not even mlg, but blizzard's decision as it is their goal to have koreans staying and training in the united states? i dont think that will work... i dunno, maybe they thought the korean pros will move to americas to play in wcs am, then ladder the crap out of am server and increase overall quality. i dont think that'll happen. i think they'll just play online until offline event, finish up event then go back to korea and do their thing. unless blizzard wants to provide all of them housing under one roof and help train each other. maybe we'll have america continent residents only wcs am after korean domination.
While I agree that not too many Koreans are actually going to stay in the USA, I think the decision to force the WCS on the AM server does have another advantage (I listed two earlier).
+ Show Spoiler +On May 02 2013 03:49 RenSC2 wrote:
MLG made the right decision. Even ignoring the fact that this is supposed to be an AM (Americas) tournament with a rule that states that all matches should be playing on the AM server, there are still other reasons to enforce the server.
1. MLG should not be required to have a lag free connection to the KR server when they are running an AM event. It is their responsibility to have a lag free connection to the AM server only. Connecting to KR from New York could cause lag from the observers and affect the quality of the game and that would look very bad for MLG. Instead, they enforced a rule that would give them a controlled environment (that all the player signed up for) and MLG should be able to handle it much more safely.
2. We're trying to find the best competitors on the AM server. If Hero or Major play styles that require supreme control and can only achieve that on the KR server, then allowing them to play out their match on the KR server creates a false winner who cannot succeed in a slightly lagged environment. Instead, they will need to adapt strategies for a slightly lagged environment that they signed up for and the one who can do that better will be the winner.
3. What might happen is that Koreans and overseas foreigners will want to practice in tournament conditions. Therefore, they will have to play on the AM server to do so. So if Hero wants to practice a build for this tournament and get used to the latency, then he's going to have to practice on the AM server... which often means ladder. Then the top AM players have an opportunity to play against Hero on the ladder rather than someone who has never had the slightest tournament success. Playing against tough competition on a more regular basis would help those top AM players.
However, if Hero knows his toughest opponent in the group is also from Korea and he can play on the KR server for that match, then he doesn't have any incentive to practice on the AM ladder. He can just go back to the Korean ladder and practice there because he'll be getting the toughest practice environment and he'll also be preparing himself for the latency he'd expect in the WCS tournament against his toughest opponents.
Forcing all WCS AM tournament play onto the AM server adds an incentive for playing on the AM ladder (which would improve the AM scene overall).
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On May 02 2013 07:51 Toosneaky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 07:32 GreyKnight wrote:On May 02 2013 07:18 Toosneaky wrote:
I agree with the earlier points made in favor of them playing on NA.
Lol, guys. So, what happens when down the line RO 16 is all koreans? We just play everything on Korea server rite????? Might as well call it wcs psuedo korea at that point.
You play wcs america, you play on NA. Plain and simple. Ro16 is offline genius. I'm glad you took the EXAMPLE so literally. Use your imagination. The point stays the same with RO XX with 90% koreans in it.
1) It'd still be WCS America because the 10% of non-Koreans would still get to play their games vs Koreans on NA, and the later rounds of the tournament would still be played offline in NA. Plus the time zones would be good for NA viewers.
2) If you ignore the above, and insist on calling it WCS Pseudo Korea, then why isn't it still WCS Pseudo Korea just on the merit of the 90% Koreans? Why does the fact that the games are played on Korean servers instead of NA servers particularly matter in your assessment?
Also, if your argument was *actually* that forcing games between Koreans to occur on NA is likely to prevent the RO XX being 90% Korean, then you didn't do a good job of stating that. Use your words. That's an argument that I disagree with (it's an annoyance to the players, but it's not a disadvantage as they both get affected, so it's not going to stop them from chasing easier money... it's only really bad for the fans) but it's at least one worth talking about.
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On May 02 2013 08:00 RenSC2 wrote:
MLG made the right decision. Even ignoring the fact that this is supposed to be an AM (Americas) tournament with a rule that states that all matches should be playing on the AM server, there are still other reasons to enforce the server.
1. MLG should not be required to have a lag free connection to the KR server when they are running an AM event. It is their responsibility to have a lag free connection to the AM server only. Connecting to KR from New York could cause lag from the observers and affect the quality of the game and that would look very bad for MLG. Instead, they enforced a rule that would give them a controlled environment (that all the player signed up for) and MLG should be able to handle it much more safely.
Two players going KR->AM is as bad as obs going AM->KR. Probably worse. This is perhaps a decent argument for region locking the tournament, but seems like a silly argument for forcing the players to play on AM.
2. We're trying to find the best competitors on the AM server. If Hero or Major play styles that require supreme control and can only achieve that on the KR server, then allowing them to play out their match on the KR server creates a false winner who cannot succeed in a slightly lagged environment. Instead, they will need to adapt strategies for a slightly lagged environment that they signed up for and the one who can do that better will be the winner.
If one player prepared a good-in-latency strategy while the other did not, you'd have a point. But in a case where the players agree to play on KR in advance, I'm having trouble seeing your point. We're not trying to find the best poor-latency competitors, we're trying to find the best competitors. What happens if Major flew to California purely for his matches and won because of the better latency? False champion because he didn't have to prepare a high-latency strategy?
3. What might happen is that Koreans and overseas foreigners will want to practice in tournament conditions. Therefore, they will have to play on the AM server to do so. So if Hero wants to practice a build for this tournament and get used to the latency, then he's going to have to practice on the AM server... which often means ladder. Then the top AM players have an opportunity to play against Hero on the ladder rather than someone who has never had the slightest tournament success. Playing against tough competition on a more regular basis would help those top AM players.
There's nothing to prevent Koreans from getting their practice partners on to NA to practice in high latency environments. Or from running BitTorrent to screw up their connection and then laddering on KR.
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Adding latency as legitimate variable to the game is....ugghh
Like i said many times, theyre pros and the environment needs to be provided, this thought of playing with high latency seem backwards
Sometimes its inevitable but it should be avoided when possible, not endorse it.
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On May 02 2013 07:02 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 06:48 ensign_lee wrote:
I agree with MLG on this.
This is not Korea 1 vs Korea 2 vs Korea 3. It's NA vs KR vs EU.
You want to play in NA, you should play on the damn NA server. In fact, you should be happy that they don't make it a requirement that you have to LIVE in NA to play in WCS NA. ??? I think everyone thinks it's idiotic that there ISN'T that requirement. If you're not going to make that requirement, than why would you make it based on the server? It's just stupid and petty at that point.
I can kind of agree with this. Part of me just wants WCS America to have this horribly shitty event so that it can actually get fixed next season. It should have been region locked.
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wow this is so silly.. just let them play on korea and not lag and be happy.. Do you really want "Code S" to have only like masters (korean server version) level players in it in the other regions? What about that fostering growth thing..
You know just as an example..and i might take this down bc it might not be cool to publicize this...demuslim played Byun on ladder today and got owned pretty hard ill leave the map scores out..you know what he said? Not GOD THESE DAMN KOREANS ARE SUCH JERKS PLAYING ON MY (not really his since hes from EU anyway) SERVER! No, he said that he learned a lot and knows he can do better. So if the professionals can have this great attitude and are excited to learn from playing against better players and providing better games to their fans, then just let it go. Major and Hero are foreign favorites anyway!
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..... Don't understand the community. I could understand this "punsihment thing" if it was a NA (in NA) vs KOR (in KOR), but we talk about 2 guys in Korea. If 2 Koreans have to play, lag will not punish them, it will not prevent Koreans to adavance in WCS NA (since they are both Koreans). It will just lowered the level of the game which is bad for the viewers...
The organisation of the WCS (region locked or not) is another question.
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On May 02 2013 14:40 Wertheron wrote:
..... Don't understand the community. I could understand this "punsihment thing" if it was a NA (in NA) vs KOR (in KOR), but we talk about 2 guys in Korea. If 2 Coreans have to play, lag will not punish them, it will not prevent Coreans to adavance in WCS NA (since they are both Coreans). It will just lowered the level of the game which is bad for the viewers...
The organisation fo the WCS (region locked or not) is another question.
Koreans*
Sorry, it bothers me too much to leave alone...
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On May 02 2013 14:43 Entirety wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 14:40 Wertheron wrote:
..... Don't understand the community. I could understand this "punsihment thing" if it was a NA (in NA) vs KOR (in KOR), but we talk about 2 guys in Korea. If 2 Coreans have to play, lag will not punish them, it will not prevent Coreans to adavance in WCS NA (since they are both Coreans). It will just lowered the level of the game which is bad for the viewers...
The organisation fo the WCS (region locked or not) is another question. Koreans* Sorry, it bothers me too much to leave alone...
Sorry, french Coréens is always in my mind 
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HerO and MajOr should have known about this requirement. Did they not read the rules before applying? If it came as a surprise to them, they got no one else to blame but themselves.
Hop on a plane to USA or play with the lag. Blaming this on MLG is unprofessional.
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On May 01 2013 10:58 Empirimancer wrote:Rules are made by people. People are supposed to be intelligent enough to know when the rules should apply.
Ummm ... what? So it is ok for you to race through the city at 150 kph just because you can handle it? It is ok for someone to shoot someone else because that one was an idiot?
People need to accept that they have to stick to the rules ... even if no one is watching. That is what civilization is based upon and disregarding it will be the reason for our civilizations falling apart ... It is a matter of principles and as it is the case with principles you have to have them for everything and not just on a case by case basis.
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???? Sorry but this makes perfect sense, and it's just how it should be. Signing up to the EZ mode WCS NA meant they would have to play in the NA server from Korea, and they were fully aware of that. As we all know at this point, the physical location of the players is _not_ a factor, and these two players should not be an exception. The level of play was already compromised from the point Blizzard decided to allow cross-server play in WCS, so this point is also irrelevant.
No big deal MajOr. Stop QQ. If you don't want to play in X server, don't sign up for WCS X.
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On May 02 2013 07:51 Toosneaky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 07:32 GreyKnight wrote:On May 02 2013 07:18 Toosneaky wrote:
I agree with the earlier points made in favor of them playing on NA.
Lol, guys. So, what happens when down the line RO 16 is all koreans? We just play everything on Korea server rite????? Might as well call it wcs psuedo korea at that point.
You play wcs america, you play on NA. Plain and simple. Ro16 is offline genius. I'm glad you took the EXAMPLE so literally. Use your imagination. The point stays the same with RO XX with 90% koreans in it.
Because they made a system so that sort of scenario wouldn't be possible? Your argument was entirely based on a fallacy.
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Seems like every day there is more bad news about WCS. Hopefully the good can outweigh the bad in the long run but I'm not sure...
edit: after reading the entire thread I'm even more disappointed in both MLG and WCS NA. MLG trying to censor team liquid staff from criticizing their operations? Absolutely disgusting.
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On May 02 2013 14:48 DeCoder wrote:
HerO and MajOr should have known about this requirement. Did they not read the rules before applying? If it came as a surprise to them, they got no one else to blame but themselves.
Hop on a plane to USA or play with the lag. Blaming this on MLG is unprofessional.
lol if they were not in the same country I might agree with you but i'm sorry if 2 players live in korea and are playing against each other and there's global play they should be able to play on KR. It's unprofessional of MLG not them.
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EPT
