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On May 02 2013 17:12 Holo82 wrote:
Im running this years Berlin Marathon in Munich, because its better ping lol.
Rofl ... good analogy though, although you should have said "easier for me" instead of "ping", because there is no ping when running a marathon. You could also have said "I like the route more" or "the weather is going to be nicer" or anything equally irrelevant but personal.
The "better ping" seriously doesnt matter, because they play other games on the NA server as well and are then slowed down by playing from Korea as well. So they have to play on NA to show the same level of precision throughout the whole tournament.
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On May 02 2013 18:42 Yamoth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 18:23 ObliviousNA wrote:On May 02 2013 17:27 Fenrax wrote:
This thread in a nutshell? 3 types of people
- People pointing out that there is literally no reason to force them to play on NA. Only disadvantages, not a single advantage for anyone including NA players.
- Other people trying to invent arguments for forcing them. They do this to cover up their vindictive, borderline racist behavior because admitting that they only want any Korean who is playing in WCS NA punished, even for no reason, sounds ugly. They obviously can't because there are no arguments, but they derail the thread enough to make it seem like there would be a discussion.
- IQ 60 guy jumping into the thread after reading not much more than the headline with this post "it is WCS NA guys so they play on NA, if u want NA u get NA, maybe they should have thought before signing up, gg ezpz" Really? Anyone who disagrees with you is racist or moronic? I'm not heavily favoring one side or the other, but that's harsh man -_- If this was considered in a bubble, ofc they should play on KR. Anyone who has viewed cross-server games knows caster lag is a non-issue. Changing regions takes ~30s, and it won't affect the viewing experience. From what I see, the two main arguments for using the NA server is a) Precedent - Apocalypse vs Nestea already happened. Could Apoc have taken 1st in the group if he could split marines with -50ms latency? (I don't even know if this matters to WCS, but it certainly would have if he took 3rd in the group) b) Foster the NA scene. True, this should be done with region lock. Since we DONT have region lock this season (but DO have region deterrence in the form of latency), people are ok with enforcing NA server play. Both are rational arguments that hold water to some extent. Whether that's worth punishing Hero/Major when the region rules might be changed next season? Meh, not my decision. a) Precedent be damn! When a rule is found to be counter productive and doesn't foster a healthier competition, it should be rewritten or scrapped all together. b) I still don't see how making two player who currently reside in Korea to play on the NA server against each other foster the NA scene. I swear, if someone actually come up with a decent argument for this all of us would shut up.
It's really annoying that very few can actually look at this and see the other side's argument even though they don't agree with it.
a) There are a lot of organizations that will leave a rule in for the duration of the season even though it is generally agreed to be a "bad rule" due to both precedent and consistency for the duration of competition. Just because you don't agree with that philosophy doesn't mean it's without merit.
b) The principle behind this is that exceptions shouldn't be made for non-region players regardless of circumstances. I don't agree with it, but the argument is sound.
The argument not being mentioned that holds more weight is that logistically it isn't acceptable to MLG to have to switch servers for those matches.
Ideally, assuming that MLG can logistically make it work, this match to be played on KR, but it's not a slam dunk on either side despite what anyone says or thinks.
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if there not good enough to paly on NA from Korea they shouldnt be playing in NA WCS
even if they play on Korea this one time the next time when they meet someone on NA theyll have to paly on NA
if there not good enough to win (with the ping) then they have no riht to complain when they lose
id rather both of them paly with ping and find out whos better at playing with ping so we know which one will offer us the best games, they cant avoid playing with ping so tehy should jsut accept it
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Emotional reaction: Bullshit play on Korea
After thinking:They are doing right thing sticking to the rules, if all koreans signed up for wsc na would they play each other on korean servers?
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On May 03 2013 02:59 Facultyadjutant wrote:
After thinking:They are doing right thing sticking to the rules, if all koreans signed up for wsc na would they play each other on korean servers?
Yes, why not?
Aside from perhaps the quality of the games, if you were not told what server they were playing on, you'd have no way of knowing. No harm, no foul. Aside from the fact that the games would be worse, would you care if WCS Korea played its offline games on non-Korean servers?
On May 03 2013 02:52 Forikorder wrote:
id rather both of them paly with ping and find out whos better at playing with ping so we know which one will offer us the best games, they cant avoid playing with ping so tehy should jsut accept it
So the offline portion of the event, when they fly to NA, should be played on Korean servers, just so we can make sure that they are the best at playing with high latency. Got it.
On May 03 2013 02:41 TrippSC2 wrote:b) The principle behind this is that exceptions shouldn't be made for non-region players regardless of circumstances. I don't agree with it, but the argument is sound.
Most of your post is reasonable. I disagree completely, but I can at least see where you're coming from. But no, that particular argument is not sound by either the technical definition of 'sound argument' or by (what I assume you meant) common use. Disallowing games from happening on Korean servers does not strike me as a deterrent to the players because:
1) Both players are hit by the higher latency, so neither is at a particular disadvantage
2) Both players wanted to play on KR, so even if one race is better suited to high latency play, the player playing that race would've been able to force the match to occur elsewhere if they wanted to
3) Both players already showed a willingness to deal with latency issues by choosing WCS: America; this decision doesn't seem likely to reverse that choice
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On May 02 2013 17:29 Holo82 wrote:
for clarification:
WCS is partet in 3 regions. One of those regions is America.
Everyone can choose, in which region he /she wants to participate, but after choosing, the person is locked for this region for the remaining season.
No passport control, no nation check, no residency, nothing. Its an open, worldwide tournament.
(minus potential participators from some countrys who are embargoed by the country, in which the servers are hosted, like Iran or North korea)
Its very nice and practicable to not have offline-only mode for the lower rounds, so it is made easier and more convenient for people from far away countrys, to participate online.
so then why didn't they choose Korea if they knew they were going to be in Korea at the time of the event? and don't tell me they didn't know cuz they're both there since a long time and have to play pro league and train, etc. Oh wait, KR region too hard, have to play Flash and Life and Rain, etc. Better dodge tough competition and sign up in ezpz NA, then whine about lag so we can play on KR server without being in the Korean competition. Why the hell do you think this rule even exists? so people can't pull off shit like this, or at least get punished for it. They have no right to whine what so ever, if it's true that they were allowed to choose the region they compete in (and through that most of their opponents as well), it's pretty baffling they even have the nerve to argue about the server.
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On May 03 2013 06:59 Kabras wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 17:29 Holo82 wrote:
for clarification:
WCS is partet in 3 regions. One of those regions is America.
Everyone can choose, in which region he /she wants to participate, but after choosing, the person is locked for this region for the remaining season.
No passport control, no nation check, no residency, nothing. Its an open, worldwide tournament.
(minus potential participators from some countrys who are embargoed by the country, in which the servers are hosted, like Iran or North korea)
Its very nice and practicable to not have offline-only mode for the lower rounds, so it is made easier and more convenient for people from far away countrys, to participate online. so then why didn't they choose Korea if they knew they were going to be in Korea at the time of the event?
They were invited to WCS America. Furthermore, THERE IS NO REGIONAL RESTRICTION ON WHAT WCS YOU CAN PLAY IN. Every WCS is open to the entire globe. The idea that players should stick with their own kind is only in your head.
and don't tell me they didn't know cuz they're both there since a long time and have to play pro league and train, etc. Oh wait, KR region too hard, have to play Flash and Life and Rain, etc. Better dodge tough competition and sign up in ezpz NA
How dare professionals try to earn more money. I hope we can see you at the Linares tournament two months after you become a chess player.
then whine about lag so we can play on KR server without being in the Korean competition.
The only thing at stake was what direction photons are routed through the internet.
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On May 01 2013 11:19 iNcontroL wrote:
pretty bad.. no reason to do that. Commentators can go to KR as well.
Quality of games should be chief. If two KR players want to play KR they should. If one is NA then YEAH NA takes priority.
This, 100%.
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On May 01 2013 11:32 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 10:49 Waxangel wrote:
While that's probably technically correct if you're following the rules of the tournament to the letter, it's a remarkably inflexible decision.
MLG is casting the event live. why should the casters, the admins/referee should have account on KR to cast a NA tournament ?
you really don't understand how region switching in HotS works do you...
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They have set rules, if you don't like them don't play and make your own tournament.
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does mlg have councils where if rules need changing, they need to draft up legislation and go through a council of people or something? people seem to love just standing around and contemplate on how to jump through hoops laid in front of them to get to the other side. debating, arguing, how it shouldnt be done so hastily...when all that needs to be done is take two steps to the left or right and walk beside them. but then we'll have people yelling "WHY ARENT YOU GOING THROUGH THE HOOPS!?", "why should i?"
this is professional gaming and they are competing one another professionally, but according to so many people, fuck them, stupid rules come first and we either obey that rule or make new rule for next season, bending the rule (for a very good reason that benefits all parties) is forbidden by god, flash himself.
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I think people are waaaay overstating the degree to which the quality of the games will suffer, which hurts their argument.
Actually it doesn't hurt their argument at all because any NEEDLESS suffering of the quality of games in this prestigious a tournament is unacceptable by any reasonable standard.
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On May 03 2013 11:48 jinorazi wrote:
does mlg have councils where if rules need changing, they need to draft up legislation and go through a council of people or something? people seem to love just standing around and contemplate on how to jump through hoops laid in front of them to get to the other side. debating, arguing, how it shouldnt be done so hastily...when all that needs to be done is take two steps to the left or right and walk beside them. but then we'll have people yelling "WHY ARENT YOU GOING THROUGH THE HOOPS!?", "why should i?"
this is professional gaming and they are competing one another professionally, but according to so many people, fuck them, stupid rules come first and we either obey that rule or make new rule for next season, bending the rule (for a very good reason that benefits all parties) is forbidden by god, flash himself.
it doesnt matter if they play this round on KR they ahve to play there next round on NA anyway they knew when they signed up theyd have to deal with he lag so they can stop wining
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On May 03 2013 11:39 HTOMario wrote:
They have set rules, if you don't like them don't play and make your own tournament.
Rules shouldn't be followed simply because they are rules. If rules either a. are dumb or b. don't account for every scenario they should be either a. changed or b. bent to accommodate various scenarios... obviously.
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On May 03 2013 12:04 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 11:48 jinorazi wrote:
does mlg have councils where if rules need changing, they need to draft up legislation and go through a council of people or something? people seem to love just standing around and contemplate on how to jump through hoops laid in front of them to get to the other side. debating, arguing, how it shouldnt be done so hastily...when all that needs to be done is take two steps to the left or right and walk beside them. but then we'll have people yelling "WHY ARENT YOU GOING THROUGH THE HOOPS!?", "why should i?"
this is professional gaming and they are competing one another professionally, but according to so many people, fuck them, stupid rules come first and we either obey that rule or make new rule for next season, bending the rule (for a very good reason that benefits all parties) is forbidden by god, flash himself. it doesnt matter if they play this round on KR they ahve to play there next round on NA anyway they knew when they signed up theyd have to deal with he lag so they can stop wining
Next round is offline. They'd be on site in NY.
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On May 03 2013 12:06 garbanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 12:04 Forikorder wrote:On May 03 2013 11:48 jinorazi wrote:
does mlg have councils where if rules need changing, they need to draft up legislation and go through a council of people or something? people seem to love just standing around and contemplate on how to jump through hoops laid in front of them to get to the other side. debating, arguing, how it shouldnt be done so hastily...when all that needs to be done is take two steps to the left or right and walk beside them. but then we'll have people yelling "WHY ARENT YOU GOING THROUGH THE HOOPS!?", "why should i?"
this is professional gaming and they are competing one another professionally, but according to so many people, fuck them, stupid rules come first and we either obey that rule or make new rule for next season, bending the rule (for a very good reason that benefits all parties) is forbidden by god, flash himself. it doesnt matter if they play this round on KR they ahve to play there next round on NA anyway they knew when they signed up theyd have to deal with he lag so they can stop wining Next round is offline. They'd be on site in NY.
what about for the rest of the year though? there are 2 more of these offline tournys yet (or 3 cant really remember that well) so theres no way for them to avoid playing on NA with the lag
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On May 03 2013 02:41 TrippSC2 wrote:
The argument not being mentioned that holds more weight is that logistically it isn't acceptable to MLG to have to switch servers for those matches.
That argument has been made multiple times in this thread... but there is no-one more deaf that the one that doesn't want to hear :-(
In fine, the one argument in favor of allowing them to play on KR is that it would arguably make for better micro in the engagements... and all other arguments (rules, logistics, intent of the sponsor...) are willfully ignored.
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Would the games have been better?? Maybe
Would the results be different? Nope
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On May 03 2013 11:19 oBlade wrote:
THERE IS NO REGIONAL RESTRICTION ON WHAT WCS YOU CAN PLAY IN. Every WCS is open to the entire globe..
really ? can you qualify to Code A or Code S KR online ? can you play your Code A or Code S match on NA or EU server ?
But still you are right, WCS EU and WCS AM are open... so are the US Open or Wimbledon, that does not means that 2 Australian players would be allowed to play their first round of Wimbledon in Adelaide...
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On May 03 2013 12:19 magnaflow wrote:
Would the games have been better?? Maybe
Would the results be different? Nope
Would the games have been better? Yes definitely.
Would the results be different? Yes because the one who can adapt better to the lag will win.
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EPT
