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On May 03 2013 12:30 shmget wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 11:19 oBlade wrote:
THERE IS NO REGIONAL RESTRICTION ON WHAT WCS YOU CAN PLAY IN. Every WCS is open to the entire globe.. really ? can you qualify to Code A or Code S KR online ? can you play your Code A or Code S match on NA or EU server ? But still you are right, WCS EU and WCS AM are open... so are the US Open or Wimbledon, that does not means that 2 Australian players would be allowed to play their first round of Wimbledon in Adelaide...
Why do people keep on making these sport analogies?
One of them takes place in a physical location.
One of them takes place over the internet.
These two are not even remotely comparable.
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I don't disagree with the NA decision... It's ridiculous that WCS allows anyone OUTSIDE of NA to play in NA ... It defeats the "world" tournament ideal entirely. NA should play, EU should play, KR should play (and all surroundings) and find the best in each region... Why is HerO (i know why, this is rhetorical) playing in NA? It's absolutely ridiculous how poorly WCS was thought up, either have it be a tournament to grow regions or have it be a GSL but this middle bullshit where it's like this "any player can play and grow in your region!" but really no fucking player can play because HerO is in WCS NA ..
Exhausting... Absolutely exhausting this has become and perhaps this is why I barely watch SC2 anymore, to tired of horrendous decisions from Blizzard and MLG on so many easy problems.
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On May 03 2013 12:39 Dracid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 12:30 shmget wrote:On May 03 2013 11:19 oBlade wrote:
THERE IS NO REGIONAL RESTRICTION ON WHAT WCS YOU CAN PLAY IN. Every WCS is open to the entire globe.. really ? can you qualify to Code A or Code S KR online ? can you play your Code A or Code S match on NA or EU server ? But still you are right, WCS EU and WCS AM are open... so are the US Open or Wimbledon, that does not means that 2 Australian players would be allowed to play their first round of Wimbledon in Adelaide... Why do people keep on making these sport analogies? One of them takes place in a physical location. One of them takes place over the internet. These two are not even remotely comparable.
Agreed. There's no reason to do this (especially if one of them involves a foreigner in the first place).
If this was 2 foreigners living in Korea to train and participating in WCS, I'd doubt people would take this discussion this far. (What if it was Snute, who is in WCS Americas too and going to South Korea to train vs Major who is also in WCS Americas and too in South Korea to train as a player on a KeSPA team?)
Edit - As for the argument should WCS Americas be Americas only?
Well, that's a different discussion "but" since it's not Americas only, and because of that, since we do have that issue of two people living in Korea playing against each other (but using the NA server regardless), then that's a different discussion.
In that case, we might as well (since WCS Americas are open everywhere) allow the tournament to be good as possible (and this means letting two people living outside of Americas but still playing in that tournament, to play the server closest to them).
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The real reason MLG doesn't allow them to play from KR server is two-fold.
1. The observers are based in NA, so they will end up lagging the players anyway if the games are played on KR.
Observers lag because they are technically the same as any other player, just that they have no units, and vision over both players. You'll notice that observers never have to "resync" with the game, because its unable to do that, ie, if an observer gets out of sync the "Waiting for players" screen will show up.
2. This pushes responsibility for any KR technical issues onto the players instead of MLG.
If there are any technical issues, especially outside of lag, such as game cannot start, etc, MLG can easily talk to NA server admins (Blizzard) to resolve any kind of issue. Basically, it is their house, their rules, AND they will take responsibility for any problems. However, if anything were to happen on the KR server, MLG will have to contact Blizzard's office in Korea (during offpeak hours) and hope they have a server admin who is awake (and resolve any language barrier issues). MLG does not want this responsibility, so they ask the players to play on NA. If one of the players has a technical issue, it is on the player to resolve it (And for Major and Hero, it is their job after all).
This decision was actually made correctly by MLG, by avoiding favoritism to cross-server players. Why should MLG accommodate the requests of certain players, when it is inconvenient for them? They set down their rules, and everyone will have to play by them, even if certain aspects are more troublesome for certain players than others.
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On May 03 2013 12:54 stink123 wrote:
The real reason MLG doesn't allow them to play from KR server is two-fold.
1. The observers are based in NA, so they will end up lagging the players anyway if the games are played on KR.
Observers lag because they are technically the same as any other player, just that they have no units, and vision over both players. You'll notice that observers never have to "resync" with the game, because its unable to do that, ie, if an observer gets out of sync the "Waiting for players" screen will show up.
2. This pushes responsibility for any KR technical issues onto the players instead of MLG.
If there are any technical issues, especially outside of lag, such as game cannot start, etc, MLG can easily talk to NA server admins (Blizzard) to resolve any kind of issue. Basically, it is their house, their rules, AND they will take responsibility for any problems. However, if anything were to happen on the KR server, MLG will have to contact Blizzard's office in Korea (during offpeak hours) and hope they have a server admin who is awake (and resolve any language barrier issues). MLG does not want this responsibility, so they ask the players to play on NA. If one of the players has a technical issue, it is on the player to resolve it (And for Major and Hero, it is their job after all).
This decision was actually made correctly by MLG, by avoiding favoritism to cross-server players. Why should MLG accommodate the requests of certain players, when it is inconvenient for them? They set down their rules, and everyone will have to play by them, even if certain aspects are more troublesome for certain players than others.
Exactly how I feel in that last paragraph.
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On May 03 2013 12:54 stink123 wrote:
The real reason MLG doesn't allow them to play from KR server is two-fold.
1. The observers are based in NA, so they will end up lagging the players anyway if the games are played on KR.
Observers lag because they are technically the same as any other player, just that they have no units, and vision over both players. You'll notice that observers never have to "resync" with the game, because its unable to do that, ie, if an observer gets out of sync the "Waiting for players" screen will show up.
2. This pushes responsibility for any KR technical issues onto the players instead of MLG.
If there are any technical issues, especially outside of lag, such as game cannot start, etc, MLG can easily talk to NA server admins (Blizzard) to resolve any kind of issue. Basically, it is their house, their rules, AND they will take responsibility for any problems. However, if anything were to happen on the KR server, MLG will have to contact Blizzard's office in Korea (during offpeak hours) and hope they have a server admin who is awake (and resolve any language barrier issues). MLG does not want this responsibility, so they ask the players to play on NA. If one of the players has a technical issue, it is on the player to resolve it (And for Major and Hero, it is their job after all).
This decision was actually made correctly by MLG, by avoiding favoritism to cross-server players. Why should MLG accommodate the requests of certain players, when it is inconvenient for them? They set down their rules, and everyone will have to play by them, even if certain aspects are more troublesome for certain players than others.
1. Observing a game just means they have to deal with input lag (which isn't much of a big deal as an observer and probably not noticeably by anyone except the observers themselves).
Rarely will they disconnect. If people were disconnecting by playing cross servers, then it would happen more often. Plus, I'm sure other tournaments had NA (for example) observers observing games on Korean server with two Koreans playing for example (maybe NASL has experienced this for example? This type of problem was never discussed or came up before, so I assumed that was the case).
Edit - NVM about NASL, I forgot they played through replays and not live.
2. The second I don't know about because I never heard of a problem of games not starting being up to Blizzard to fix before (unless it's a serverwide problem that is, in which case they'll fix it anyway for all players playing regardless of being asked or not to by a tournament organizer). In those cases, it's usually a case of the players themselves trying to fix it (repair their game file) rather than something server side usually (again if it's server side, everyone would probably report it and Blizzard will fix it for everyone rather than for a specific tournament organizer).
Edit - The only thing Blizzard needs to fix is to white list and not blacklist LAN tournaments (since if a ton of players are playing from a single IP address, then they may block them from playing on battle.net). This isn't the case for online tournaments.
Also again, what if Snute (WCS Americas, foreigner who is going to Korea to train) and Major (WCS Americas too, foreigner in Korea) had to face each other? It seems a lot of in this topic is just bias against Koreans playing.
Sure some may not like Koreans playing on WCS Americas but the problem is, since we're already here (and already, there are Koreans set to play), then we shouldn't be arguing about "since Koreans are playing in a tournament that isn't even in their region, then they should have to deal with lag" but how to make the tournament as good as possible.
Plus, it's not really the Korean players fault exactly (though besides maybe the fault of the state of SC2 scene in South Korea itself) because they reduced GSL from 4+ a year to 2 (If you don't count the non-WCS GSL this year) and OSL reduced from potentially 2 a year to 1.
They had much more tournaments (plus WCS itself which was region locked last year) last year than now. Since players in South Korea can't play much, and since Blizzard (again, in this topic, we're arguing about Major and HerO not being able to play the Korean server and we shouldn't be arguing about anything else since anything else should be in another topic altogether) has let Koreans play in any WCS, then lets try to make it the best WCS experience.
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i really dont get it pretty much every online tournament a palyer is in theyll ahve to paly cross server at some point why are they making a big deal about it now?
playing with lag isnt that big a deal weve still seen Koreans clean sweep online tournys even with the lag, major and hero arent at any disadvantage playing each other both are lagging its even ground
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A very good decision, in my opinion. The regions are separate for a reason. If one should choose to play in a specific region, that player then has to deal with all that the decision entails.
I'm a bit surprised that people are shocked that WCS NA involves the NA server...if the idea wasn't to subdivide the player base in order to acquire a representative sample of talent from each region, why divide it up at all? This tournament would be no different than any other tournament.
I tip my hat to those that are keeping to the rules. WSC NA is designed to capture NA talent. If you'd like to play from another location you may do so, but we will not bend the rules to accommodate you. If you'd like to play in the NA tournament on equal footing, I welcome you to visit my country.
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On May 03 2013 13:23 Forikorder wrote:
i really dont get it pretty much every online tournament a palyer is in theyll ahve to paly cross server at some point why are they making a big deal about it now?
playing with lag isnt that big a deal weve still seen Koreans clean sweep online tournys even with the lag, major and hero arent at any disadvantage playing each other both are lagging its even ground
Nobody is complaining about playing cross-server against Americans, that's unavoidable. It's not about whether or not the games are fair, it's that as a player you'd obviously prefer to play without lag rather than with lag given the choice in all situations, because playing with a delay is obnoxious. This is also better for spectators as less lag only means that players are able to micro better and give better games.
This comes at the cost of slightly more hassle for the organizers, but I'm pretty sure the problems here are being overstated given how other tournaments seem to handle it just fine.
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On May 03 2013 13:38 Dracid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 13:23 Forikorder wrote:
i really dont get it pretty much every online tournament a palyer is in theyll ahve to paly cross server at some point why are they making a big deal about it now?
playing with lag isnt that big a deal weve still seen Koreans clean sweep online tournys even with the lag, major and hero arent at any disadvantage playing each other both are lagging its even ground Nobody is complaining about playing cross-server against Americans, that's unavoidable. It's not about whether or not the games are fair, it's that as a player you'd obviously prefer to play without lag rather than with lag given the choice in all situations, because playing with a delay is obnoxious. This is also better for spectators as less lag only means that players are able to micro better and give better games. This comes at the cost of slightly more hassle for the organizers, but I'm pretty sure the problems here are being overstated given how other tournaments seem to handle it just fine.
im pretty sure the problems with lag are massivley overstated as well
i can honestly say ive never watch a tournament game and went "well that would ahve gone completely different if it hadnt been cross server" im pretty sure none of the people playing in this tournament (and definently not hero and Major) are at such a zen level of mastery that there gonna lose due to a micro second of lag especially when there opponent is experiencing the same lag
they chose to commit to playing in a tournament based in a country there not living in, they should ahve been prepared for hassles, its like if they complain that they have to fly to NA for the finals
im sure the lag is a minor inconvenience but hardly anything worth making a huge fuss and a witchunt about
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United Kingdom20295 Posts
WCS NA is being played on the NA server, what's the big deal?
If there's an issue with regions (and i think they are really messed up) then discuss the cause, not the effects
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On May 03 2013 13:35 Prophanity wrote:
A very good decision, in my opinion. The regions are separate for a reason. If one should choose to play in a specific region, that player then has to deal with all that the decision entails.
I'm a bit surprised that people are shocked that WCS NA involves the NA server...if the idea wasn't to subdivide the player base in order to acquire a representative sample of talent from each region, why divide it up at all? This tournament would be no different than any other tournament.
I tip my hat to those that are keeping to the rules. WSC NA is designed to capture NA talent. If you'd like to play from another location you may do so, but we will not bend the rules to accommodate you. If you'd like to play in the NA tournament on equal footing, I welcome you to visit my country.
Except this thread isn't about KR vs NA. Nobody is saying that KR vs NA games should be on anything other than the NA server. This is only about KR vs KR games, the amount of foreigners in WCS AM would be exactly the same either way.
Also, if WCS AM is designed to capture NA talent, then why were so many Koreans invited into the premier league? I'm not saying that's a good thing, but Blizzard/MLG have already made their choice and there's nothing we can do about that now, so we might as well focus on making the best of things.
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On May 03 2013 13:50 Dracid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 13:35 Prophanity wrote:
A very good decision, in my opinion. The regions are separate for a reason. If one should choose to play in a specific region, that player then has to deal with all that the decision entails.
I'm a bit surprised that people are shocked that WCS NA involves the NA server...if the idea wasn't to subdivide the player base in order to acquire a representative sample of talent from each region, why divide it up at all? This tournament would be no different than any other tournament.
I tip my hat to those that are keeping to the rules. WSC NA is designed to capture NA talent. If you'd like to play from another location you may do so, but we will not bend the rules to accommodate you. If you'd like to play in the NA tournament on equal footing, I welcome you to visit my country. Except this thread isn't about KR vs NA. Nobody is saying that KR vs NA games should be on anything other than the NA server. This is only about KR vs KR games, the amount of foreigners in WCS AM would be exactly the same either way. Also, if WCS AM is designed to capture NA talent, then why were so many Koreans invited into the premier league? I'm not saying that's a good thing, but Blizzard/MLG have already made their choice and there's nothing we can do about that now, so we might as well focus on making the best of things.
blizz has said that they dont think that many koreans will play outside of NA because of the difficulties, there gonna purposely make things as difficult for non-americans to play in WCS america as possible the end goal would be to make as many people play in there region as they can
if your korean and expecting special attention in WCS AM you should rethink that strategy
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On May 03 2013 13:42 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 13:38 Dracid wrote:On May 03 2013 13:23 Forikorder wrote:
i really dont get it pretty much every online tournament a palyer is in theyll ahve to paly cross server at some point why are they making a big deal about it now?
playing with lag isnt that big a deal weve still seen Koreans clean sweep online tournys even with the lag, major and hero arent at any disadvantage playing each other both are lagging its even ground Nobody is complaining about playing cross-server against Americans, that's unavoidable. It's not about whether or not the games are fair, it's that as a player you'd obviously prefer to play without lag rather than with lag given the choice in all situations, because playing with a delay is obnoxious. This is also better for spectators as less lag only means that players are able to micro better and give better games. This comes at the cost of slightly more hassle for the organizers, but I'm pretty sure the problems here are being overstated given how other tournaments seem to handle it just fine. im pretty sure the problems with lag are massivley overstated as well i can honestly say ive never watch a tournament game and went "well that would ahve gone completely different if it hadnt been cross server" im pretty sure none of the people playing in this tournament (and definently not hero and Major) are at such a zen level of mastery that there gonna lose due to a micro second of lag especially when there opponent is experiencing the same lag they chose to commit to playing in a tournament based in a country there not living in, they should ahve been prepared for hassles, its like if they complain that they have to fly to NA for the finals im sure the lag is a minor inconvenience but hardly anything worth making a huge fuss and a witchunt about
Cross-server lag is one of the main reasons you see relatively fewer Koreans in WCS EU than WCS AM. KR->EU lag is pretty crippling, but KR->NA is more or less manageable. If you watch WCS EU games, you'll definitely see Koreans lose engagements that they otherwise wouldn't without lag.
It's not about changing results though. I don't think playing on the KR server would've changed the results of Hero vs Major, but from a player's perspective it's just less obnoxious to play without lag. Players are also more likely to go for riskier plays if they know their micro can carry them through. It's a minor inconvenience, but from a player's and spectator's perspective it's an unnecessary one.
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On May 03 2013 13:54 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 13:50 Dracid wrote:On May 03 2013 13:35 Prophanity wrote:
A very good decision, in my opinion. The regions are separate for a reason. If one should choose to play in a specific region, that player then has to deal with all that the decision entails.
I'm a bit surprised that people are shocked that WCS NA involves the NA server...if the idea wasn't to subdivide the player base in order to acquire a representative sample of talent from each region, why divide it up at all? This tournament would be no different than any other tournament.
I tip my hat to those that are keeping to the rules. WSC NA is designed to capture NA talent. If you'd like to play from another location you may do so, but we will not bend the rules to accommodate you. If you'd like to play in the NA tournament on equal footing, I welcome you to visit my country. Except this thread isn't about KR vs NA. Nobody is saying that KR vs NA games should be on anything other than the NA server. This is only about KR vs KR games, the amount of foreigners in WCS AM would be exactly the same either way. Also, if WCS AM is designed to capture NA talent, then why were so many Koreans invited into the premier league? I'm not saying that's a good thing, but Blizzard/MLG have already made their choice and there's nothing we can do about that now, so we might as well focus on making the best of things. blizz has said that they dont think that many koreans will play outside of NA because of the difficulties, there gonna purposely make things as difficult for non-americans to play in WCS america as possible the end goal would be to make as many people play in there region as they can if your korean and expecting special attention in WCS AM you should rethink that strategy
Except this doesn't make things more difficult for non-Americans. It makes things more frustrating for them, but in the end the same amount of Koreans will go through, this rule does nothing to change that.
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It's a minor inconvenience, but from a player's and spectator's perspective it's an unnecessary one.
maybe, but from the organizers perspective its better to give a minor inconvenience then re-write the rules of the tournament especially since this rule was probably put in place even with this scenario in mind
Except this doesn't make things more difficult for non-Americans. It makes things more frustrating for them, but in the end the same amount of Koreans will go through, this rule does nothing to change that.
how can something be more frustrating but not more difficult? that makes no sense
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On May 03 2013 13:04 Goldfish wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 12:54 stink123 wrote:
The real reason MLG doesn't allow them to play from KR server is two-fold.
1. The observers are based in NA, so they will end up lagging the players anyway if the games are played on KR.
Observers lag because they are technically the same as any other player, just that they have no units, and vision over both players. You'll notice that observers never have to "resync" with the game, because its unable to do that, ie, if an observer gets out of sync the "Waiting for players" screen will show up.
2. This pushes responsibility for any KR technical issues onto the players instead of MLG.
If there are any technical issues, especially outside of lag, such as game cannot start, etc, MLG can easily talk to NA server admins (Blizzard) to resolve any kind of issue. Basically, it is their house, their rules, AND they will take responsibility for any problems. However, if anything were to happen on the KR server, MLG will have to contact Blizzard's office in Korea (during offpeak hours) and hope they have a server admin who is awake (and resolve any language barrier issues). MLG does not want this responsibility, so they ask the players to play on NA. If one of the players has a technical issue, it is on the player to resolve it (And for Major and Hero, it is their job after all).
This decision was actually made correctly by MLG, by avoiding favoritism to cross-server players. Why should MLG accommodate the requests of certain players, when it is inconvenient for them? They set down their rules, and everyone will have to play by them, even if certain aspects are more troublesome for certain players than others. 1. Observing a game just means they have to deal with input lag (which isn't much of a big deal as an observer and probably not noticeably by anyone except the observers themselves). Rarely will they disconnect. If people were disconnecting by playing cross servers, then it would happen more often. Plus, I'm sure other tournaments had NA (for example) observers observing games on Korean server with two Koreans playing for example (maybe NASL has experienced this for example? This type of problem was never discussed or came up before, so I assumed that was the case). 2. The second I don't know about because I never heard of a problem of games not starting being up to Blizzard to fix before (unless it's a serverwide problem that is, in which case they'll fix it anyway for all players playing regardless of being asked or not to by a tournament organizer). In those cases, it's usually a case of the players themselves trying to fix it (repair their game file) rather than something server side usually (again if it's server side, everyone would probably report it and Blizzard will fix it for everyone rather than for a specific tournament organizer). Edit - The only thing Blizzard needs to fix is to white list and not blacklist LAN tournaments (since if a ton of players are playing from a single IP address, then they may block them from playing on battle.net). This isn't the case for online tournaments. Also again, what if Snute (WCS Americas, foreigner who is going to Korea to train) and Major (WCS Americas too, foreigner in Korea) had to face each other? It seems a lot of in this topic is just bias against Koreans playing. Sure some may not like Koreans playing on WCS Americas but the problem is, since we're already here (and already, there are Koreans set to play), then we shouldn't be arguing about "since Koreans are playing in a tournament that isn't even in their region, then they should have to deal with lag" but how to make the tournament as good as possible. Plus, it's not really the Korean players fault exactly (though besides maybe the fault of the state of SC2 scene in South Korea itself) because they reduced GSL from 4+ a year to 2 (If you don't count the non-WCS GSL this year) and OSL reduced from potentially 2 a year to 1. They had much more tournaments (plus WCS itself which was region locked last year) last year than now. Since players in South Korea can't play much, and since Blizzard (again, in this topic, we're arguing about Major and HerO not being able to play the Korean server and we shouldn't be arguing about anything else since anything else should be in another topic altogether) has let Koreans play in any WCS, then lets try to make it the best WCS experience.
The rules are set up in regards to extenuating circumstances. If no problems happen, no observers lag, no players disconnect, the tourney is easy and simple to run. However, should anything go wrong, should the tournament be delayed it will be MLG who suffers the most. MLG has learned the VERY VERY hard way what happens when things go wrong, so it seems very reasonable for them to be very explicit on these rules. Bad things can and do happen, and MLG wants to be able to do something when necessary, not wait on some server admin to wake up on the other side of the world.
Not to mention, WCS is now the biggest sc2 event worldwide, and MLG should err on the side of caution to prevent it from becoming a disaster. Sure, lots of viewers and players may not be happy with certain things, but as long as they finish the tournament with a mostly legitimate bracket, they will get the chance to improve. Whereas if they fail, Blizzard may not let them host another WCS event, effectively killing their sc2 involvement.
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On May 03 2013 14:10 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote + It's a minor inconvenience, but from a player's and spectator's perspective it's an unnecessary one. maybe, but from the organizers perspective its better to give a minor inconvenience then re-write the rules of the tournament especially since this rule was probably put in place even with this scenario in mind Show nested quote +Except this doesn't make things more difficult for non-Americans. It makes things more frustrating for them, but in the end the same amount of Koreans will go through, this rule does nothing to change that.
how can something be more frustrating but not more difficult? that makes no sense
So why are we siding with the organizers in this instance? They have to click a few more buttons and there's potential concern for observer lag, but the players are happier and the spectators get to see a higher level of micro. Seems like a worthwhile trade-off if you ask me.
It's more frustrating because win or lose, playing with lag is more frustrating than playing without. It's not more difficult because their opponent has the same handicap, so their chances for winning are still roughly the same.
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On May 03 2013 14:19 Dracid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 14:10 Forikorder wrote: It's a minor inconvenience, but from a player's and spectator's perspective it's an unnecessary one. maybe, but from the organizers perspective its better to give a minor inconvenience then re-write the rules of the tournament especially since this rule was probably put in place even with this scenario in mind Except this doesn't make things more difficult for non-Americans. It makes things more frustrating for them, but in the end the same amount of Koreans will go through, this rule does nothing to change that.
how can something be more frustrating but not more difficult? that makes no sense So why are we siding with the organizers in this instance? They have to click a few more buttons and there's potential concern for observer lag, but the players are happier and the spectators get to see a higher level of micro. Seems like a worthwhile trade-off if you ask me. It's more frustrating because win or lose, playing with lag is more frustrating than playing without. It's not more difficult because their opponent has the same handicap, so their chances for winning are still roughly the same.
were siding with the organizers because noone wants koreans in WCS's outside of korea anyway
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On May 03 2013 13:54 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 13:50 Dracid wrote:On May 03 2013 13:35 Prophanity wrote:
A very good decision, in my opinion. The regions are separate for a reason. If one should choose to play in a specific region, that player then has to deal with all that the decision entails.
I'm a bit surprised that people are shocked that WCS NA involves the NA server...if the idea wasn't to subdivide the player base in order to acquire a representative sample of talent from each region, why divide it up at all? This tournament would be no different than any other tournament.
I tip my hat to those that are keeping to the rules. WSC NA is designed to capture NA talent. If you'd like to play from another location you may do so, but we will not bend the rules to accommodate you. If you'd like to play in the NA tournament on equal footing, I welcome you to visit my country. Except this thread isn't about KR vs NA. Nobody is saying that KR vs NA games should be on anything other than the NA server. This is only about KR vs KR games, the amount of foreigners in WCS AM would be exactly the same either way. Also, if WCS AM is designed to capture NA talent, then why were so many Koreans invited into the premier league? I'm not saying that's a good thing, but Blizzard/MLG have already made their choice and there's nothing we can do about that now, so we might as well focus on making the best of things. blizz has said that they dont think that many koreans will play outside of NA because of the difficulties, there gonna purposely make things as difficult for non-americans to play in WCS america as possible the end goal would be to make as many people play in there region as they can if your korean and expecting special attention in WCS AM you should rethink that strategy
The shitty thing to me though is this hurt MajOr. The guy is one of the best players in the NA scene, and he has to play with lag because he's set himself up in the best training environment possible.
It really blows to have a situation where NA players (and foreigners in general) like HuK, Scarlett, MajOr, or Snute are punished for trying to improve and get better in Korea (which is the best place to improve by far).
I think it's arguable that this hurts the NA scene even worse. The NA players I would expect to do well in WCS AM all have trained in Korea to improve, everyone else is easily stomped by Nestea, HerO, etc. with or without lag. Essentially you're saying to NA players, "If you want to participate in WCS AM you have to train in a shitty environment and then play high level Koreans training in the best environment possible, or you can train in a good environment and play with crippling lag"
They tried to do too much I think. They wanted AM to be represented by people actually in the region, but they also wanted extremely high level play. So far they've attained neither.
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On May 03 2013 14:42 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 14:19 Dracid wrote:On May 03 2013 14:10 Forikorder wrote: It's a minor inconvenience, but from a player's and spectator's perspective it's an unnecessary one. maybe, but from the organizers perspective its better to give a minor inconvenience then re-write the rules of the tournament especially since this rule was probably put in place even with this scenario in mind Except this doesn't make things more difficult for non-Americans. It makes things more frustrating for them, but in the end the same amount of Koreans will go through, this rule does nothing to change that.
how can something be more frustrating but not more difficult? that makes no sense So why are we siding with the organizers in this instance? They have to click a few more buttons and there's potential concern for observer lag, but the players are happier and the spectators get to see a higher level of micro. Seems like a worthwhile trade-off if you ask me. It's more frustrating because win or lose, playing with lag is more frustrating than playing without. It's not more difficult because their opponent has the same handicap, so their chances for winning are still roughly the same. were siding with the organizers because noone wants koreans in WCS's outside of korea anyway
Which is stupid, because the organizers are the ones who let Koreans in to begin with, and this rule does nothing to reduce the number of Koreans in the tournament.
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EPT
