EPTMajOr and HerO forced to play WCS Matches on NA? - Page 16
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
GunSec
1095 Posts
| ||
|
Rad
United States935 Posts
I believe they should have handled the allowed WCS NA signups completely differently (NA should be for people in NA for specific amount of time), but since they didn't, there's absolutely no good, competitive reason to force the match to be on the NA server. | ||
|
Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
If it was two SEA players playing. Or two people from Taiwan. Would you think they should play on the NA server? Blizzard have effectively forced those people to play in WCS America (NOT NA), but you think they should play on NA server rather than a potentially closer/better pinging server? And for the record, Major IS an American player (in the sense that Blizzard are using for WCS AMERICA as he's from Mexico. Almost every competition until now has had a degree of common sense, either alternate servers, or make NA the "home" server, but if BOTH players are from elsewhere, let them play on their "home" server. Also, if Blizzard really wanted to prevent people outside the Americas from playing in WCS America, they would have banned it, or at least banned people from Korea/Europe taking part (letting SEA/Taiwan/China (lol)/South America/North America participate). | ||
|
Hrrrrm
United States2081 Posts
On May 01 2013 15:14 stfouri wrote: Can't understand people that are bitching about this. Can you even call the tournament WCS AM anymore if the round of 16 is gonna be 95% Koreans playing on KR server? Start thinking further... Seriously... It will always be WCS America because the games are played during Americas PRIMETIME. Just like EU's WCS plays during EU's Primetime. People need to seriously start realizing that Blizzard wanted to give people access to high level play in all the regions during Primetime without having to pay for VOD's or watching SC2 at odd times of the day(morning for Euro's and in the middle of the night for Americans). If they wanted it to be strictly Americans or Europeans in each of the tournaments there is literally nothing stopping them from doing that if that was their main motivation. What server the games are played on doesn't matter one bit except for inconveniencing players for no reason. The entire thing will be offline eventually but you might as well make the best out of a rushed situation and not further worsen games with increased lag between players who are literally in the same city. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
| ||
|
Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
| ||
|
Rad
United States935 Posts
On May 01 2013 15:35 Whitewing wrote: If the casters/observers are in america, it makes sense to play the games on the american server, unless you are casting from replays. How does that make sense at all? They can simply switch regions and their casting/observing will not be affected nearly as much as the players having to play on NA server (most likely it won't be affected at all). | ||
|
ngri
Luxembourg136 Posts
This all comes from that games should be played live for premier (and challenger actually) like they are korea. The fact that they're not creates a lot of inconsistency. | ||
|
sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
On May 01 2013 15:36 Dodgin wrote: This thread should just be locked until someone is willing to answer Plexa Okay: "So please, someone who is supportive of this measure please explain to me how this is a GOOD decision, not merely an understandable one." For one, it is bad precedent to change the rules in the middle of a season, even if said rules could be said to be "bad" rules; even if the rules were unclear. We should not change rules mid-season without very compelling reasons, and I do not think that this instance satisfies the criteria of what I would consider to be compelling. Now, in a way, the question, or demand, of Plexa (and the others who made the same point) is a kind of trap. They don't want our (people who don't want the rule changed) reasons, obviously, because they've already been given our reasons and they weren't satisfied. What they want is to be convinced. But the problem is that what I may consider to be good reasons, they might not consider to be good reasons. What I see as a lack of good cause, they see as perfectly good cause. I can repeat that rules are rules and should not be bent for something like this until I am blue in the face (fingers), but if you don't agree that holding to the rules is important, or think that this warrants changing the rules, than you will obviously not find my reasons to be "GOOD". As I said before: Blizzard has made it clear that developing the scene in regions outside of KR is a concern to them, and at least part of the purpose of the new WCS system. Without going into arguments about how they could have done it better, or whether they are doing it correctly, we can understand, to some degree, the regional-play rule. It is an incentive to play in the region within which you reside. Obviously there are other ways this could be done. However, they did not choose those ways. Their statements make it clear that they will be instituting even more incentives and disincentives in the future. It makes a certain kind of sense to have rules already in place that begin the incentivizing (I know that's not a word, get over it) process immediately. So basically, if I agree with the stated intention of the rule already (and I do), and I agree that the rule does what it presumably is there to do (and I do agree with this), and even further, I agree that one should not change rules mid-season without compelling reasons (and I do), and finally agree that this is not an instance that shows compelling reasons to change said rule (and I do)... than obviously I will find this decision (if this in fact their final decision) to be a good one. If one does not agree with all those things, one will not find it to be a good decision. If one strongly disagrees with all or one of them, one will not even find it to be an understandable decision. This is, in fact, a matter of opinion. Not a scientific discussion with a right and wrong answer. | ||
|
m0ck
4194 Posts
On May 01 2013 15:54 sc2superfan101 wrote: Okay: "So please, someone who is supportive of this measure please explain to me how this is a GOOD decision, not merely an understandable one." For one, it is bad precedent to change the rules in the middle of a season, even if said rules could be said to be "bad" rules; even if the rules were unclear. We should not change rules mid-season without very compelling reasons, and I do not think that this instance satisfies the criteria of what I would consider to be compelling. Now, in a way, the question, or demand, of Plexa (and the others who made the same point) is a kind of trap. They don't want our (people who don't want the rule changed) reasons, obviously, because they've already been given our reasons and they weren't satisfied. What they want is to be convinced. But the problem is that what I may consider to be good reasons, they might not consider to be good reasons. What I see as a lack of good cause, they see as perfectly good cause. I can repeat that rules are rules and should not be bent for something like this until I am blue in the face (fingers), but if you don't agree that holding to the rules is important, or think that this warrants changing the rules, than you will obviously not find my reasons to be "GOOD". As I said before: Blizzard has made it clear that developing the scene in regions outside of KR is a concern to them, and at least part of the purpose of the new WCS system. Without going into arguments about how they could have done it better, or whether they are doing it correctly, we can understand, to some degree, the regional-play rule. It is an incentive to play in the region within which you reside. Obviously there are other ways this could be done. However, they did not choose those ways. Their statements make it clear that they will be instituting even more incentives and disincentives in the future. It makes a certain kind of sense to have rules already in place that begin the incentivizing (I know that's not a word, get over it) process immediately. So basically, if I agree with the stated intention of the rule already (and I do), and I agree that the rule does what it presumably is there to do (and I do agree with this), and even further, I agree that one should not change rules mid-season without compelling reasons (and I do), and finally agree that this is not an instance that shows compelling reasons to change said rule (and I do)... than obviously I will find this decision (if this in fact their final decision) to be a good one. If one does not agree with all those things, one will not find it to be a good decision. If one strongly disagrees with all or one of them, one will not even find it to be an understandable decision. This is, in fact, a matter of opinion. Not a scientific discussion with a right and wrong answer. *Pow* Knocked it out of the park. | ||
|
DOUDOU
Wales2940 Posts
On May 01 2013 11:03 opterown wrote: WCS AM was always going to be pretty sub-par anyway tbh blizz is nice enough to raise the level by allowing good players to play in NA so americans can watch high(er) level games, but they seem content with nationalism.... On May 01 2013 11:08 heyoka wrote:No one has presented a reason for this to be on NA that makes the least bit of sense. but they take our jebs! | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On May 01 2013 15:54 sc2superfan101 wrote: Simply following the rules blindly makes it acceptable (at least, I hope these rules were available to the players well in advance.) That doesn't mean that this is a rule that should be retained in future seasons.Okay: "So please, someone who is supportive of this measure please explain to me how this is a GOOD decision, not merely an understandable one." For one, it is bad precedent to change the rules in the middle of a season, even if said rules could be said to be "bad" rules; even if the rules were unclear. We should not change rules mid-season without very compelling reasons, and I do not think that this instance satisfies the criteria of what I would consider to be compelling. Now, in a way, the question, or demand, of Plexa (and the others who made the same point) is a kind of trap. They don't want our (people who don't want the rule changed) reasons, obviously, because they've already been given our reasons and they weren't satisfied. What they want is to be convinced. But the problem is that what I may consider to be good reasons, they might not consider to be good reasons. What I see as a lack of good cause, they see as perfectly good cause. I can repeat that rules are rules and should not be bent for something like this until I am blue in the face (fingers), but if you don't agree that holding to the rules is important, or think that this warrants changing the rules, than you will obviously not find my reasons to be "GOOD". As I said before: Blizzard has made it clear that developing the scene in regions outside of KR is a concern to them, and at least part of the purpose of the new WCS system. Without going into arguments about how they could have done it better, or whether they are doing it correctly, we can understand, to some degree, the regional-play rule. It is an incentive to play in the region to which you reside in. Obviously there are other ways this could be done. However, they did not choose those ways. Their statements make it clear that they will be instituting even more incentives and disincentives in the future. It makes a certain kind of sense to have rules already in place that begin the incentivizing (I know that's not a word, get over it) process immediately. Absolutely, but entirely irrelevant. This isn't a NA-KR issue or even an EU-KR issue, it only pertains to KR-KR matchups [and by extension, EU-EU]. In any matchup containing a NA based player there is not argument about what server it should be played on. So how is not being flexible in the rules to allow this series to be played on KR a disincentive for non-NA based players to participate in WCS America? It simply isn't. The over-riding disincentive for Korean based players to play America's WCS is the live portion of the competition - i.e. having to relocate to America to play these rounds. Ultimately, all I can see that you've written is that it's a rule thus it should be upheld. Which is all fine and dandy, but doesn't make it something worth supporting for future seasons. If these issues aren't brought up now then there's no incentive for MLG or Blizzard to re-examine these rules for next season. On May 01 2013 15:36 Dodgin wrote: This thread should just be locked until someone is willing to answer Plexa No, that isn't necessary. But god damn posts like these annoy me so much: On May 01 2013 16:06 -IeZaeL- wrote: This time i have to agree with MLG. You wanna play WCS NA? U have to play in NA,gL | ||
|
-IeZaeL-
Spain327 Posts
| ||
|
F1rstAssau1t
1341 Posts
| ||
|
kubiks
France1328 Posts
On May 01 2013 15:35 Hrrrrm wrote: It will always be WCS America because the games are played during Americas PRIMETIME. Just like EU's WCS plays during EU's Primetime. People need to seriously start realizing that Blizzard wanted to give people access to high level play in all the regions during Primetime without having to pay for VOD's or watching SC2 at odd times of the day(morning for Euro's and in the middle of the night for Americans). If they wanted it to be strictly Americans or Europeans in each of the tournaments there is literally nothing stopping them from doing that if that was their main motivation. What server the games are played on doesn't matter one bit except for inconveniencing players for no reason. The entire thing will be offline eventually but you might as well make the best out of a rushed situation and not further worsen games with increased lag between players who are literally in the same city. Quoted for truth. Whatever you can think of blizzard decision, the outcome isn't as much "foreigners can play against each other in WCS" than "every region got a league of good level at a decent time" (wheras before it was "korea got a good league and europe/US have week-end tournament"). So saying that "WCS NA must be played on NA" even if no player are on Na server is ridicoulous. | ||
|
NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On May 01 2013 10:54 Jormundr wrote: It's WCS NA. It's for whoever is better at playing on the NA server. Maybe instead of complaining about playing WCS NA on the NA server, they could play WCS KR on the KR server. It's a deterrent, because it adds uncertainty to the game. I fully support even stronger deterrents against cross region play. Simile: It's like joining a Chinese debate team and then complaining that they don't debate in English. Can't be a serious post. | ||
|
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On May 01 2013 15:15 Plexa wrote: I'm amazed that people actually believe this is a good thing. I can accept that people might understand why this has come about, but people actually advocating this as if it were a good thing? I am not surprised by this. It is not a "follow the rules" thing, what happens is that people hear the word "national" and put their blinders on. And then you can't even argue with them anymore, they just go full retard. Basically the same reaction can be seen on a larger scale in the Euro crisis everywhere in the EU now. | ||
|
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On May 01 2013 16:37 Fenrax wrote: I am not surprised by this. It is not a "follow the rules" thing, what happens is that people hear the word "national" and put their blinders on. And then you can't even argue with them anymore, they just go full retard. Basically the same reaction can be seen on a larger scale in the Euro crisis everywhere in the EU now. I think you might be right. | ||
|
Nazca
France42 Posts
But in any case, I highly disagree with people saying "this is a NA competition so it should be played on NA". First of all because it is NOT a NA competition, it is an American competition. Secondly, I think Blizzard somehow forced Korean players to try and compete in Europe or America as GSL and MLG got locked into the WCS circuit. If I am a player trying to make a living out of competition, I will most certainly try to participate in tournaments in which I HAVE A FREAKIN CHANCE TO WIN SOMETHING. All I read in here is bullshit American patriotism when the rule - if confirmed and explained by MLG - is obviously segregatory and goes against the FAQ Blizzard posted a while back saying that they would not region-lock WCS. I have seen no convincing argument that this is a good decision in the comments. In fact I remember very clearly many progamers said that having Koreans participate in WCS other than WCS Korea would enhance the overall level of competition. So where you people cheered for Leenock, MKP or DRG at the MLG Showdowns (which were obviously played on KR server when it concerned Korean players), you now think these guys should go on NA server ? Please. | ||
|
Charlie.Sheen
662 Posts
And baby and JYP will sit by their sides to help them during the game. That's another thing MLG need to think about. | ||
| ||
