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Did Nestea and Apocalypse have to play on NA when they played vs eachother?
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On May 01 2013 13:47 Zenbrez wrote:
Did Nestea and Apocalypse have to play on NA when they played vs eachother?
i think they did
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Seriously, before the MLG hating keeps going on, we have to clarify this:
On May 01 2013 13:39 TiberiusAk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 12:50 Dodgin wrote:On May 01 2013 12:47 Plansix wrote:On May 01 2013 12:44 Dodgin wrote:On May 01 2013 12:43 Plansix wrote:On May 01 2013 12:42 Dodgin wrote:On May 01 2013 11:57 Plansix wrote:On May 01 2013 11:48 Dodgin wrote:
I'm actually shocked at how many people are ok with this, if they had played on the KR server and never said anything about it no one would have ever known the difference, it makes absolutely 0 difference in that match other than making it more fair. Online leagues, team leagues especially have always done kr vs kr if both players are in KR. There are also people who get that all the games are to be played on the NA server. Exceptions can be made, but people understand that it isn't required and informing rules is important. If the rules say two players who live in KR have to play each other on the NA server they're garbage rules and need to be changed, just because it was written as a rule doesn't mean you bow down to it without question. If the games are going to be casted live, its not going to matter what server they are on, since MLG is in NA. Observers must be connected to the game too. Global play exists and It's very easy to change your client to the KR server, it only takes a few seconds. If the obs is lagging the game then MLG needs to improve their internet speed. That's not how it works, the obs is exactly the same as a player in SC2, so they can lag the game just like a player. MLG is in NY, which is pretty close to me. I have amazing fiber internet and my connection to KR is beyond garbage. The players aren't " lagging " the game though, they just have delay because of the server location. The observer doesn't have to input command like a player does so delay doesn't affect them. It's definitely better than having both players play with delay. <snip> The game attempts to keep all clients in sync, observers and players. You might not think it needs to do this, but the fact seems to be that it is doing it even though it may not need to. This is evident because a) players experience lag from lagging observers (see the examples in previous post), and b) the game pops up the "waiting for players" message for observers like it does for players (you would think it would never need to do this, but it does). The game might permit an observer to lag a little more than it allows players, but if they are too far behind it slows down the game to let them catch up, creating lag for the players. Technical hypothesis: + Show Spoiler +The technical reason for this is probably the same reason that you can't just jump straight to a future point in a replay that hasn't been loaded yet--the game client needs to compute the results of all the actions it's given, it can't just magically resync. The observer probably has to receive all the orders from the players before it can catch up to them. Edit: adding previous post, didn't realize it wasn't quoted above: Show nested quote +The best reason I can think of for MLG to make this rule is that MLG's two observing PC's are in New York. Observers lagging seems to have an effect on the players too (in an WCS EU match today with Thorzain, both players were complaining about lag from observers).
So, if the quality is going to be ruined by lag whenever there is cross-continent play (even if both players are on the remote continent, but the casters are not), you might as well have the rule that players always play on AM.
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I like their decision, WCS NA, makes sense that it'd be NA Server. It should not be an inconvenience to the casters and production staff, it should be an inconvenience for the players that chose WCS NA.
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On May 01 2013 13:46 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 13:30 oBlade wrote:On May 01 2013 13:12 forsooth wrote:
Can't say I'm too broken up about guys who jumped out of their own region to try and beat up another and grab up their money having to play a laggy match.
Of course it's Blizzard's fault for not locking players into the region they actually reside in in the first place, but still, I'm not bothered. There's no reason to have this kind of contempt for professionals. Earning money is their job, it's the reason they can work full-time to give you good games. If the regions are open, how can you say any player has a region except the one they decide to play in? What is "their own region" besides the region you think they should be playing in, as though you are in control of their lives...? But if you want to organize a league, let alone a world championship, you're obligated to conduct it competently, and I don't think MLG or Blizzard have done their best this time. It's especially puzzling that you would criticize Major for playing in WCS NA. Contempt? It's indifference. As for Major, he's been trying forever to go to Korea and get into a Kespa team. He succeeded and made Korea his new home as a professional player. What's the point of going through all that effort to set up shop in Korea and prove himself if he's going to just play in WCS AM?
He IS from North America, after all... And since people are interested in finding out who is the best from North America, Europe, and Korea, it only makes sense that he would want to play in WCS AM. Obviously, he COULD play in WCS KR, but that would mean he has no (VERY LITTLE) chance of making it to the grand finals, since he'd have to work his way through all of GSL. Don't say stupid things.
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Maybe they shouldn't play in WCS NA and should stick to WCS Korea then.
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On May 01 2013 10:54 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 10:49 Waxangel wrote:"@8th_MajOr
so @MLG is going to make me play my matches on NA server vs liquidhero i wonder who came up with such bullshit we both live in korea atm .." According to MajOr's tweet, he and HerO will have to play their WCS America matches on the NA server, despite the fact that they both reside in Korea. While that's probably technically correct if you're following the rules of the tournament to the letter, it's a remarkably inflexible decision. It degrades the WCS tournament by knowingly allowing the level of competition to be lowered, is a discourtesy to the players who want to be able to fully show the skills they have honed through hundreds of hours of practice, and is a disservice to the fans who are expecting the be shown the highest level of gameplay possible. When you consider that region switching is even built into the HotS client, then it's an even more confusing and perplexing decision. Hopefully both players have protested and have had the decision changed. It's WCS NA. It's for whoever is better at playing on the NA server. Maybe instead of complaining about playing WCS NA on the NA server, they could play WCS KR on the KR server. It's a deterrent, because it adds uncertainty to the game. I fully support even stronger deterrents against cross region play. Simile: It's like joining a Chinese debate team and then complaining that they don't debate in English.
Basically this. There needs to be as much incentive to relocate to your WCS region as possible. Until we have players in live studios, this is a solid replacement.
Does it detract from the level of play from the players? absolutely, but if we wanted the best of the best games from players in KR, why both inviting any NA players at all? Why not just have WCS NA just be all KR players playing on the KR server? lol
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I see it now. They play on KR. Axslav and Axeltoss keep lagging out of the games over and over. The quality of the games is lowered. The production suffers. The two players get pissed. Then everyone cries at MLG wondering why they allowed this to happen.
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On the bright side, it's good for them to play all their matches on NA, including mutual matches, in order to get used to real competition environment with NA-lag. Sure, we (the audience) are screwed, but we will be screwed for so many other matches anyway.
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On May 01 2013 13:50 Blargh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 13:46 forsooth wrote:On May 01 2013 13:30 oBlade wrote:On May 01 2013 13:12 forsooth wrote:
Can't say I'm too broken up about guys who jumped out of their own region to try and beat up another and grab up their money having to play a laggy match.
Of course it's Blizzard's fault for not locking players into the region they actually reside in in the first place, but still, I'm not bothered. There's no reason to have this kind of contempt for professionals. Earning money is their job, it's the reason they can work full-time to give you good games. If the regions are open, how can you say any player has a region except the one they decide to play in? What is "their own region" besides the region you think they should be playing in, as though you are in control of their lives...? But if you want to organize a league, let alone a world championship, you're obligated to conduct it competently, and I don't think MLG or Blizzard have done their best this time. It's especially puzzling that you would criticize Major for playing in WCS NA. Contempt? It's indifference. As for Major, he's been trying forever to go to Korea and get into a Kespa team. He succeeded and made Korea his new home as a professional player. What's the point of going through all that effort to set up shop in Korea and prove himself if he's going to just play in WCS AM? He IS from North America, after all... And since people are interested in finding out who is the best from North America, Europe, and Korea, it only makes sense that he would want to play in WCS AM. Obviously, he COULD play in WCS KR, but that would mean he has no (VERY LITTLE) chance of making it to the grand finals, since he'd have to work his way through all of GSL. Don't say stupid things.
and he has a chance in AM? AM is jsut as stacked as KR and more so then EU (based on hazy memoried of which koreans went where)
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On May 01 2013 13:56 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 13:50 Blargh wrote:On May 01 2013 13:46 forsooth wrote:On May 01 2013 13:30 oBlade wrote:On May 01 2013 13:12 forsooth wrote:
Can't say I'm too broken up about guys who jumped out of their own region to try and beat up another and grab up their money having to play a laggy match.
Of course it's Blizzard's fault for not locking players into the region they actually reside in in the first place, but still, I'm not bothered. There's no reason to have this kind of contempt for professionals. Earning money is their job, it's the reason they can work full-time to give you good games. If the regions are open, how can you say any player has a region except the one they decide to play in? What is "their own region" besides the region you think they should be playing in, as though you are in control of their lives...? But if you want to organize a league, let alone a world championship, you're obligated to conduct it competently, and I don't think MLG or Blizzard have done their best this time. It's especially puzzling that you would criticize Major for playing in WCS NA. Contempt? It's indifference. As for Major, he's been trying forever to go to Korea and get into a Kespa team. He succeeded and made Korea his new home as a professional player. What's the point of going through all that effort to set up shop in Korea and prove himself if he's going to just play in WCS AM? He IS from North America, after all... And since people are interested in finding out who is the best from North America, Europe, and Korea, it only makes sense that he would want to play in WCS AM. Obviously, he COULD play in WCS KR, but that would mean he has no (VERY LITTLE) chance of making it to the grand finals, since he'd have to work his way through all of GSL. Don't say stupid things. and he has a chance in AM? AM is jsut as stacked as KR and more so then EU (based on hazy memoried of which koreans went where)
AM is nowhere near as stacked as KR, and EU is debatable
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On May 01 2013 13:57 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 13:56 Forikorder wrote:On May 01 2013 13:50 Blargh wrote:On May 01 2013 13:46 forsooth wrote:On May 01 2013 13:30 oBlade wrote:On May 01 2013 13:12 forsooth wrote:
Can't say I'm too broken up about guys who jumped out of their own region to try and beat up another and grab up their money having to play a laggy match.
Of course it's Blizzard's fault for not locking players into the region they actually reside in in the first place, but still, I'm not bothered. There's no reason to have this kind of contempt for professionals. Earning money is their job, it's the reason they can work full-time to give you good games. If the regions are open, how can you say any player has a region except the one they decide to play in? What is "their own region" besides the region you think they should be playing in, as though you are in control of their lives...? But if you want to organize a league, let alone a world championship, you're obligated to conduct it competently, and I don't think MLG or Blizzard have done their best this time. It's especially puzzling that you would criticize Major for playing in WCS NA. Contempt? It's indifference. As for Major, he's been trying forever to go to Korea and get into a Kespa team. He succeeded and made Korea his new home as a professional player. What's the point of going through all that effort to set up shop in Korea and prove himself if he's going to just play in WCS AM? He IS from North America, after all... And since people are interested in finding out who is the best from North America, Europe, and Korea, it only makes sense that he would want to play in WCS AM. Obviously, he COULD play in WCS KR, but that would mean he has no (VERY LITTLE) chance of making it to the grand finals, since he'd have to work his way through all of GSL. Don't say stupid things. and he has a chance in AM? AM is jsut as stacked as KR and more so then EU (based on hazy memoried of which koreans went where) AM is nowhere near as stacked as KR, and EU is debatable
arent Taeja MVP and NesTea all in AM? (taeja not right now) and all of axiom is coming over and EG seems like only the KeSPA pros are staying in KR
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On May 01 2013 13:50 Blargh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 13:46 forsooth wrote:On May 01 2013 13:30 oBlade wrote:On May 01 2013 13:12 forsooth wrote:
Can't say I'm too broken up about guys who jumped out of their own region to try and beat up another and grab up their money having to play a laggy match.
Of course it's Blizzard's fault for not locking players into the region they actually reside in in the first place, but still, I'm not bothered. There's no reason to have this kind of contempt for professionals. Earning money is their job, it's the reason they can work full-time to give you good games. If the regions are open, how can you say any player has a region except the one they decide to play in? What is "their own region" besides the region you think they should be playing in, as though you are in control of their lives...? But if you want to organize a league, let alone a world championship, you're obligated to conduct it competently, and I don't think MLG or Blizzard have done their best this time. It's especially puzzling that you would criticize Major for playing in WCS NA. Contempt? It's indifference. As for Major, he's been trying forever to go to Korea and get into a Kespa team. He succeeded and made Korea his new home as a professional player. What's the point of going through all that effort to set up shop in Korea and prove himself if he's going to just play in WCS AM? He IS from North America, after all... And since people are interested in finding out who is the best from North America, Europe, and Korea, it only makes sense that he would want to play in WCS AM. Obviously, he COULD play in WCS KR, but that would mean he has no (VERY LITTLE) chance of making it to the grand finals, since he'd have to work his way through all of GSL. Don't say stupid things.
Leave that kind of shit out of your posts in the future.
I already explained precisely why it doesn't make sense for Major to compete in WCS AM. He very intentionally left NA to prove himself in Korea. He lives there now and plays for a Korean team.
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Honestly, the fault lies with a system that induced half of the KR players into WCS NA in the first place. The server for WCS NA should be NA. The fact that the players in WCS NA are actually KR is the fault of the system, not the server.
This is what you get when you design something like this.
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Lets take this to the extreme. Imagine 6 seasons from now EVERY North American player has been weeded out of WCS NA save those practicing in Korea and all that remains is Koreans. Now we have EVERY WCS North America match being played on KR server in lieu of NA due to the precedent this sets. What reason is there to even call it a 'North American' league anymore at this point when the games of foreigners aren't even being played on the NA server?\
Sure, it sucks as a viewer that the games will be a little bit worse due to safer play, but honestly they knew when they signed up that they would have to play on the NA server and what serves to differentiate them?
Say that we had a hacked Heart of the Swarm game that could be played on LAN and the two competitors and Axslav or whomever is casting are all capable of playing in the same room on LAN, sure it's an extreme case, but it gives us viewers better games regardless of the intention of the rules or the league. All due to the precedent that MLG decides to set in this case.
I'll back their decision either way, but I think it's important that at this juncture they make a decision they are willing to stand strong behind.
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this is what you get when you mix blizzard and MLG. The saga continues!
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I can understand the rationale behind 'its WCS NA, so games should be played on NA', if one of them resides in NA and the other Korea, but if both are currently residing in Korea, absolutely no reason not to have the games played on Korea. Extremely silly and inflexible
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On May 01 2013 13:56 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 13:50 Blargh wrote:On May 01 2013 13:46 forsooth wrote:On May 01 2013 13:30 oBlade wrote:On May 01 2013 13:12 forsooth wrote:
Can't say I'm too broken up about guys who jumped out of their own region to try and beat up another and grab up their money having to play a laggy match.
Of course it's Blizzard's fault for not locking players into the region they actually reside in in the first place, but still, I'm not bothered. There's no reason to have this kind of contempt for professionals. Earning money is their job, it's the reason they can work full-time to give you good games. If the regions are open, how can you say any player has a region except the one they decide to play in? What is "their own region" besides the region you think they should be playing in, as though you are in control of their lives...? But if you want to organize a league, let alone a world championship, you're obligated to conduct it competently, and I don't think MLG or Blizzard have done their best this time. It's especially puzzling that you would criticize Major for playing in WCS NA. Contempt? It's indifference. As for Major, he's been trying forever to go to Korea and get into a Kespa team. He succeeded and made Korea his new home as a professional player. What's the point of going through all that effort to set up shop in Korea and prove himself if he's going to just play in WCS AM? He IS from North America, after all... And since people are interested in finding out who is the best from North America, Europe, and Korea, it only makes sense that he would want to play in WCS AM. Obviously, he COULD play in WCS KR, but that would mean he has no (VERY LITTLE) chance of making it to the grand finals, since he'd have to work his way through all of GSL. Don't say stupid things. and he has a chance in AM? AM is jsut as stacked as KR and more so then EU (based on hazy memoried of which koreans went where)
The difference is that since they used GSL code S and A as the premier and challenger leagues, if a player in the Korean region wasn't in code S already, they could not play in the WCS global finals this season. Not to mention that there were only limited qualifiers for code A, so if the player then failed to make it into code A that rules out next season too.
So regardless of how stacked any of the tournaments are, for any player not in the Korean region and not in code S who wants a shot a global WCS, choosing a different region is the only option.
I can understand that some people would prefer players in WCS to live in that country, but what about players from regions that don't get their own WCS, would people expect them to move just to participate in WCS? Seems kind of unreasonable for a tournament that is run three times a year.
Also I am under the impression that players in Korea were kind of shafted with the whole WCS format, with essentially less tournaments per year in Korea, so forcing additional unnecessary difficulties like this seems pretty ridiculous.
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On May 01 2013 14:00 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 13:57 opterown wrote:On May 01 2013 13:56 Forikorder wrote:On May 01 2013 13:50 Blargh wrote:On May 01 2013 13:46 forsooth wrote:On May 01 2013 13:30 oBlade wrote:On May 01 2013 13:12 forsooth wrote:
Can't say I'm too broken up about guys who jumped out of their own region to try and beat up another and grab up their money having to play a laggy match.
Of course it's Blizzard's fault for not locking players into the region they actually reside in in the first place, but still, I'm not bothered. There's no reason to have this kind of contempt for professionals. Earning money is their job, it's the reason they can work full-time to give you good games. If the regions are open, how can you say any player has a region except the one they decide to play in? What is "their own region" besides the region you think they should be playing in, as though you are in control of their lives...? But if you want to organize a league, let alone a world championship, you're obligated to conduct it competently, and I don't think MLG or Blizzard have done their best this time. It's especially puzzling that you would criticize Major for playing in WCS NA. Contempt? It's indifference. As for Major, he's been trying forever to go to Korea and get into a Kespa team. He succeeded and made Korea his new home as a professional player. What's the point of going through all that effort to set up shop in Korea and prove himself if he's going to just play in WCS AM? He IS from North America, after all... And since people are interested in finding out who is the best from North America, Europe, and Korea, it only makes sense that he would want to play in WCS AM. Obviously, he COULD play in WCS KR, but that would mean he has no (VERY LITTLE) chance of making it to the grand finals, since he'd have to work his way through all of GSL. Don't say stupid things. and he has a chance in AM? AM is jsut as stacked as KR and more so then EU (based on hazy memoried of which koreans went where) AM is nowhere near as stacked as KR, and EU is debatable arent Taeja MVP and NesTea all in AM? (taeja not right now) and all of axiom is coming over and EG seems like only the KeSPA pros are staying in KR
Uh. You should look at the brackets lol
A few Code A players and one or two Code S players does not make a stacked bracket
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EPT
