EPTAnd heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one.
WCS America Qualifier so far - Page 40
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shelfofjustice
Canada24 Posts
And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one. | ||
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freddergeier
Germany140 Posts
On April 23 2013 03:09 Ghanburighan wrote: Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points. He recounted the main problems: a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long. But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background. Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points. Thanks man! I will watch the video later  | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
On April 23 2013 03:15 shelfofjustice wrote: I don't understand why anyone thinks the fee would have done anything besides rub salt in the wound--imagine being eliminated by Hyun. Sucks, huh? Now imagine paying $20 to be eliminated by Hyun. Or Comm. Or the hacker. Unless you go ask all low league sign-ups, you can't even reliably prove that they would or would not have paid to enter. And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one. I agree. I would gladly pay $20,-- to be able to get 6polled by catz or any other pro. I even think its cheap! | ||
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Esoterikk
Canada1256 Posts
On April 23 2013 01:50 Rhaegar_tar wrote: Apparently MLG chose to do the challenger qualifiers at the same time as Dreamhack, which means that players will have to choose between the two events( most players will choose the MLG qualfiers obviously). Fuck you MLG, you're ruining Esports. Rofl are you kidding? Wow MLG, just WOW. I didn't think it was possible to dislike an organization less after WCS qualifiers but damn they are trying their hardest to be as awful as possible. | ||
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
On April 23 2013 02:56 Rannasha wrote: I'm pretty sure that one's on MLG, not Blizzard. ESL, after all, had many different streams going on besides the official stream with Kaelaris. MLG also has a rule that forbids players from discussing the results of their matches. Sounds to me like MLG intended to milk the qualifier for broadcast-content for many more days by shutting out community casters and trying to keep the results hidden. No it was blizzard. WCS EU had a bunch of different casters because nothing had been set yet, but then blizzard cracked down on the content providers saying it could only be broadcasted through official WCS channels. So basically eliminating anyone else from doing it. The only thing MLG could have done was to hire another set of a casters on staff and provide a seperate official stream. | ||
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SonZHi
Hong Kong30 Posts
MLG needs to admit their blunders. | ||
dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On April 23 2013 03:15 shelfofjustice wrote: I don't understand why anyone thinks the fee would have done anything besides rub salt in the wound--imagine being eliminated by Hyun. Sucks, huh? Now imagine paying $20 to be eliminated by Hyun. Or Comm. Or the hacker. Unless you go ask all low league sign-ups, you can't even reliably prove that they would or would not have paid to enter. And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one. I like how people think there has to be a fee when in reality if you do it GSL style requiring a certain amount of points and league (say master league with 1k points) and nobody below can join. Would solve a lot of the issues other then the hacker or hyun trying to play. Idk how TB can say a fee of 18$ should have happened. If there HAD to be a fee which would still be stupid 5$ is what it should be max considering this tournament has NO prize pool and the prize pool for WCS was already provided by blizzard it's just stupid that they even thought about doing a 18$ fee. | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
On April 23 2013 04:02 blade55555 wrote: I like how people think there has to be a fee when in reality if you do it GSL style requiring a certain amount of points and league (say master league with 1k points) and nobody below can join. Would solve a lot of the issues other then the hacker or hyun trying to play. Idk how TB can say a fee of 18$ should have happened. If there HAD to be a fee which would still be stupid 5$ is what it should be max considering this tournament has NO prize pool and the prize pool for WCS was already provided by blizzard it's just stupid that they even thought about doing a 18$ fee. But, Mike Morhaime assured me that the foreigner skill level would be increased because we would be practicing against them. O, that's right, they still play on the Korean server and only have accounts on NA for stuff like this (might not be high enough level for the requirement). | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On April 23 2013 04:22 playa wrote: But, Mike Morhaime assured me that the foreigner skill level would be increased because we would be practicing against them. O, that's right, they still play on the Korean server and only have accounts on NA for stuff like this (might not be high enough level for the requirement). It has.... Chinese pro's are better then Muricans and they are playing on NA ladder. Same counts for alot of koreans and europeans. Thx to blizzard, Idra is not a topzerg in NA anymore. So, yes, blizzard was right. Thx to wcs foreingers are playing on NA ladder increasing the skill on NA. ezpz.. Murica has never gone to war with a techdisadvantage.. so i'd say you take quadruple upgrades early. Those topforeigners u speak off will crumble. MURICA!!!!  | ||
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ggrrg
Bulgaria2717 Posts
On April 23 2013 03:09 Ghanburighan wrote: Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points. He recounted the main problems: a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long. But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background. Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points. I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US). | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On April 23 2013 03:15 shelfofjustice wrote: I don't understand why anyone thinks the fee would have done anything besides rub salt in the wound--imagine being eliminated by Hyun. Sucks, huh? Now imagine paying $20 to be eliminated by Hyun. Or Comm. Or the hacker. Unless you go ask all low league sign-ups, you can't even reliably prove that they would or would not have paid to enter. And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one. commm would have been a normal sign up place then why not make the top wcs 2012 sign up free and rest pay ... would be way more logical | ||
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Vorenius
Denmark1979 Posts
On April 23 2013 03:09 Ghanburighan wrote: + Show Spoiler + Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points. He recounted the main problems: a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long. But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background. It's amazing. I couldn't stop watching and getting angry at how awful it was | ||
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Sjokola
Netherlands800 Posts
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Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
On April 23 2013 05:23 ggrrg wrote: I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US). If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On April 23 2013 06:17 Sandermatt wrote: If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place. Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!! | ||
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ggrrg
Bulgaria2717 Posts
On April 23 2013 06:17 Sandermatt wrote: If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place. It's an unneccessary strain on many players. Also, wiring 18 bucks from China to the US probably costs the same ammount and takes several days to arrive. If MLG uses other payment methods it's also very possible that those can cause further complications for the players. There is absolutely no reason for MLG to add an additional obstacle for players considering that there are simpler and more efficient ways (merit based system, bigger qualifiers, more qualifiers) | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10165 Posts
On April 23 2013 04:02 blade55555 wrote: I like how people think there has to be a fee when in reality if you do it GSL style requiring a certain amount of points and league (say master league with 1k points) and nobody below can join. Would solve a lot of the issues other then the hacker or hyun trying to play. Idk how TB can say a fee of 18$ should have happened. If there HAD to be a fee which would still be stupid 5$ is what it should be max considering this tournament has NO prize pool and the prize pool for WCS was already provided by blizzard it's just stupid that they even thought about doing a 18$ fee. Yep, that's pretty much how proffessionals do it. If you are following the GSL example, do it. Don't go sideways to be cheaper and then complain about it when you obviously didn't do it. | ||
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Vertitto
Poland750 Posts
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