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WCS America Qualifier so far - Page 40

Forum Index > SC2 General
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shelfofjustice
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada24 Posts
April 22 2013 18:15 GMT
#781
I don't understand why anyone thinks the fee would have done anything besides rub salt in the wound--imagine being eliminated by Hyun. Sucks, huh? Now imagine paying $20 to be eliminated by Hyun. Or Comm. Or the hacker. Unless you go ask all low league sign-ups, you can't even reliably prove that they would or would not have paid to enter.

And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one.
freddergeier
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany140 Posts
April 22 2013 18:19 GMT
#782
On April 23 2013 03:09 Ghanburighan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 02:55 freddergeier wrote:
On April 23 2013 01:27 Ghanburighan wrote:
TotalBiscuit just put out a content patch with his thoughts on the matter.



could you give a brief summary?


Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.

He recounted the main problems:

a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative)
b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated.
c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ.
d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated.
e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long. But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in.
f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament.
e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work.
* Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.

Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.



Thanks man! I will watch the video later
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
April 22 2013 18:22 GMT
#783
such a mess
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
govie
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
9334 Posts
April 22 2013 18:26 GMT
#784
On April 23 2013 03:15 shelfofjustice wrote:
I don't understand why anyone thinks the fee would have done anything besides rub salt in the wound--imagine being eliminated by Hyun. Sucks, huh? Now imagine paying $20 to be eliminated by Hyun. Or Comm. Or the hacker. Unless you go ask all low league sign-ups, you can't even reliably prove that they would or would not have paid to enter.

And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one.


I agree. I would gladly pay $20,-- to be able to get 6polled by catz or any other pro. I even think its cheap!
The two NBA teams in states with legal weed are called the Nuggets and the Blazers...
Esoterikk
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1256 Posts
April 22 2013 18:39 GMT
#785
On April 23 2013 01:50 Rhaegar_tar wrote:
Apparently MLG chose to do the challenger qualifiers at the same time as Dreamhack, which means that players will have to choose between the two events( most players will choose the MLG qualfiers obviously).

Fuck you MLG, you're ruining Esports.


Rofl are you kidding? Wow MLG, just WOW. I didn't think it was possible to dislike an organization less after WCS qualifiers but damn they are trying their hardest to be as awful as possible.
Darpa
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada4413 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-22 18:47:32
April 22 2013 18:47 GMT
#786
On April 23 2013 02:56 Rannasha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 02:53 Darpa wrote:
On April 23 2013 02:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
The common thread to all the problems with ESL and MLG is .. Blizzard.

Both ESL and MLG were set up for failure based on a bad job done by Blizzard rushing the entire WCS 2013 into existence.

That round of interviews Morhaime did with PCGamer, GameSpot et al.... looks silly now.
such PR speak as "evolve the ecosystem" .. sorry ...but my bullshit meter is in the red zone now.



I have to agree, MLG might have fucked up some parts of the qualifier. But most of the larger, shittier decisions were made by blizzard and are a result of their complete lack of planning.

example: Not having any other casters able to cast the final games. Axslav and Axeltoss casted for like 9 hours, and they did a great job. But it absolutely kills the tournament to cast the finals a week later from replays.


I'm pretty sure that one's on MLG, not Blizzard. ESL, after all, had many different streams going on besides the official stream with Kaelaris. MLG also has a rule that forbids players from discussing the results of their matches. Sounds to me like MLG intended to milk the qualifier for broadcast-content for many more days by shutting out community casters and trying to keep the results hidden.


No it was blizzard. WCS EU had a bunch of different casters because nothing had been set yet, but then blizzard cracked down on the content providers saying it could only be broadcasted through official WCS channels. So basically eliminating anyone else from doing it.

The only thing MLG could have done was to hire another set of a casters on staff and provide a seperate official stream.
"losers always whine about their best, Winners go home and fuck the prom queen"
SonZHi
Profile Joined May 2012
Hong Kong30 Posts
April 22 2013 18:52 GMT
#787
I love HyuN for trolling MLG and retiring his American victims.

MLG needs to admit their blunders.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
April 22 2013 18:59 GMT
#788
any word from MLG yet?
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-22 19:02:57
April 22 2013 19:02 GMT
#789
On April 23 2013 03:15 shelfofjustice wrote:
I don't understand why anyone thinks the fee would have done anything besides rub salt in the wound--imagine being eliminated by Hyun. Sucks, huh? Now imagine paying $20 to be eliminated by Hyun. Or Comm. Or the hacker. Unless you go ask all low league sign-ups, you can't even reliably prove that they would or would not have paid to enter.

And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one.


I like how people think there has to be a fee when in reality if you do it GSL style requiring a certain amount of points and league (say master league with 1k points) and nobody below can join. Would solve a lot of the issues other then the hacker or hyun trying to play.

Idk how TB can say a fee of 18$ should have happened. If there HAD to be a fee which would still be stupid 5$ is what it should be max considering this tournament has NO prize pool and the prize pool for WCS was already provided by blizzard it's just stupid that they even thought about doing a 18$ fee.
When I think of something else, something will go here
playa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1284 Posts
April 22 2013 19:22 GMT
#790
On April 23 2013 04:02 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 03:15 shelfofjustice wrote:
I don't understand why anyone thinks the fee would have done anything besides rub salt in the wound--imagine being eliminated by Hyun. Sucks, huh? Now imagine paying $20 to be eliminated by Hyun. Or Comm. Or the hacker. Unless you go ask all low league sign-ups, you can't even reliably prove that they would or would not have paid to enter.

And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one.


I like how people think there has to be a fee when in reality if you do it GSL style requiring a certain amount of points and league (say master league with 1k points) and nobody below can join. Would solve a lot of the issues other then the hacker or hyun trying to play.

Idk how TB can say a fee of 18$ should have happened. If there HAD to be a fee which would still be stupid 5$ is what it should be max considering this tournament has NO prize pool and the prize pool for WCS was already provided by blizzard it's just stupid that they even thought about doing a 18$ fee.


But, Mike Morhaime assured me that the foreigner skill level would be increased because we would be practicing against them. O, that's right, they still play on the Korean server and only have accounts on NA for stuff like this (might not be high enough level for the requirement).
govie
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
9334 Posts
April 22 2013 19:52 GMT
#791
On April 23 2013 04:22 playa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 04:02 blade55555 wrote:
On April 23 2013 03:15 shelfofjustice wrote:
I don't understand why anyone thinks the fee would have done anything besides rub salt in the wound--imagine being eliminated by Hyun. Sucks, huh? Now imagine paying $20 to be eliminated by Hyun. Or Comm. Or the hacker. Unless you go ask all low league sign-ups, you can't even reliably prove that they would or would not have paid to enter.

And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one.


I like how people think there has to be a fee when in reality if you do it GSL style requiring a certain amount of points and league (say master league with 1k points) and nobody below can join. Would solve a lot of the issues other then the hacker or hyun trying to play.

Idk how TB can say a fee of 18$ should have happened. If there HAD to be a fee which would still be stupid 5$ is what it should be max considering this tournament has NO prize pool and the prize pool for WCS was already provided by blizzard it's just stupid that they even thought about doing a 18$ fee.


But, Mike Morhaime assured me that the foreigner skill level would be increased because we would be practicing against them. O, that's right, they still play on the Korean server and only have accounts on NA for stuff like this (might not be high enough level for the requirement).


It has.... Chinese pro's are better then Muricans and they are playing on NA ladder. Same counts for alot of koreans and europeans. Thx to blizzard, Idra is not a topzerg in NA anymore. So, yes, blizzard was right. Thx to wcs foreingers are playing on NA ladder increasing the skill on NA.

ezpz.. Murica has never gone to war with a techdisadvantage.. so i'd say you take quadruple upgrades early. Those topforeigners u speak off will crumble. MURICA!!!!
The two NBA teams in states with legal weed are called the Nuggets and the Blazers...
ggrrg
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Bulgaria2716 Posts
April 22 2013 20:23 GMT
#792
On April 23 2013 03:09 Ghanburighan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 02:55 freddergeier wrote:
On April 23 2013 01:27 Ghanburighan wrote:
TotalBiscuit just put out a content patch with his thoughts on the matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRzJl8vlhWI


could you give a brief summary?


Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.

He recounted the main problems:

a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative)
b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated.
c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ.
d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated.
e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long. But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in.
f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament.
e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work.
* Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.

Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.


I agree with most of his points. However:
e) makes no sense whatsoever.
First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one.
Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
April 22 2013 20:26 GMT
#793
On April 23 2013 03:15 shelfofjustice wrote:
I don't understand why anyone thinks the fee would have done anything besides rub salt in the wound--imagine being eliminated by Hyun. Sucks, huh? Now imagine paying $20 to be eliminated by Hyun. Or Comm. Or the hacker. Unless you go ask all low league sign-ups, you can't even reliably prove that they would or would not have paid to enter.

And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one.


commm would have been a normal sign up place then
why not make the top wcs 2012 sign up free and rest pay ... would be way more logical
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
Vorenius
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Denmark1979 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-22 20:51:41
April 22 2013 20:50 GMT
#794
On April 23 2013 03:09 Ghanburighan wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On April 23 2013 02:55 freddergeier wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 01:27 Ghanburighan wrote:
TotalBiscuit just put out a content patch with his thoughts on the matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRzJl8vlhWI


could you give a brief summary?


Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.

He recounted the main problems:

a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative)
b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated.
c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ.
d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated.
e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long. But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in.
f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament.
e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work.

* Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.

It's amazing. I couldn't stop watching and getting angry at how awful it was
Sjokola
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands800 Posts
April 22 2013 21:08 GMT
#795
Blizzard should do the same with events as they do with their games. Do not release/do it unless you're ready to do so.
Sandermatt
Profile Joined December 2010
Switzerland1365 Posts
April 22 2013 21:17 GMT
#796
On April 23 2013 05:23 ggrrg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 03:09 Ghanburighan wrote:
On April 23 2013 02:55 freddergeier wrote:
On April 23 2013 01:27 Ghanburighan wrote:
TotalBiscuit just put out a content patch with his thoughts on the matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRzJl8vlhWI


could you give a brief summary?


Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.

He recounted the main problems:

a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative)
b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated.
c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ.
d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated.
e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long. But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in.
f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament.
e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work.
* Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.

Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.


I agree with most of his points. However:
e) makes no sense whatsoever.
First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one.
Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).


If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
govie
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
9334 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-22 21:30:23
April 22 2013 21:27 GMT
#797
On April 23 2013 06:17 Sandermatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 05:23 ggrrg wrote:
On April 23 2013 03:09 Ghanburighan wrote:
On April 23 2013 02:55 freddergeier wrote:
On April 23 2013 01:27 Ghanburighan wrote:
TotalBiscuit just put out a content patch with his thoughts on the matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRzJl8vlhWI


could you give a brief summary?


Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.

He recounted the main problems:

a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative)
b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated.
c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ.
d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated.
e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long. But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in.
f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament.
e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work.
* Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.

Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.


I agree with most of his points. However:
e) makes no sense whatsoever.
First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one.
Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).


If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.


Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
The two NBA teams in states with legal weed are called the Nuggets and the Blazers...
ggrrg
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Bulgaria2716 Posts
April 22 2013 21:27 GMT
#798
On April 23 2013 06:17 Sandermatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 05:23 ggrrg wrote:
On April 23 2013 03:09 Ghanburighan wrote:
On April 23 2013 02:55 freddergeier wrote:
On April 23 2013 01:27 Ghanburighan wrote:
TotalBiscuit just put out a content patch with his thoughts on the matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRzJl8vlhWI


could you give a brief summary?


Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.

He recounted the main problems:

a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative)
b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated.
c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ.
d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated.
e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long. But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in.
f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament.
e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work.
* Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.

Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.


I agree with most of his points. However:
e) makes no sense whatsoever.
First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one.
Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).


If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.


It's an unneccessary strain on many players. Also, wiring 18 bucks from China to the US probably costs the same ammount and takes several days to arrive. If MLG uses other payment methods it's also very possible that those can cause further complications for the players.
There is absolutely no reason for MLG to add an additional obstacle for players considering that there are simpler and more efficient ways (merit based system, bigger qualifiers, more qualifiers)
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10126 Posts
April 22 2013 21:28 GMT
#799
On April 23 2013 04:02 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 03:15 shelfofjustice wrote:
I don't understand why anyone thinks the fee would have done anything besides rub salt in the wound--imagine being eliminated by Hyun. Sucks, huh? Now imagine paying $20 to be eliminated by Hyun. Or Comm. Or the hacker. Unless you go ask all low league sign-ups, you can't even reliably prove that they would or would not have paid to enter.

And heck, if $10k is such a drop in the bucket, someone throw a $10k region-locked NA tournament. We could use one.


I like how people think there has to be a fee when in reality if you do it GSL style requiring a certain amount of points and league (say master league with 1k points) and nobody below can join. Would solve a lot of the issues other then the hacker or hyun trying to play.

Idk how TB can say a fee of 18$ should have happened. If there HAD to be a fee which would still be stupid 5$ is what it should be max considering this tournament has NO prize pool and the prize pool for WCS was already provided by blizzard it's just stupid that they even thought about doing a 18$ fee.


Yep, that's pretty much how proffessionals do it. If you are following the GSL example, do it. Don't go sideways to be cheaper and then complain about it when you obviously didn't do it.
Vertitto
Profile Joined January 2012
Poland750 Posts
April 22 2013 21:30 GMT
#800
i wonder if there is a decent way to fix it.
FISH MAKE BLUB BLUB
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