On April 23 2013 01:27 Ghanburighan wrote: TotalBiscuit just put out a content patch with his thoughts on the matter.
could you give a brief summary?
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
It does not stop all, but quite a few. If I was still playing the game it would have stopped me. I would play in a qualifier (EU qualifier) if I had the time because anybody can play and it is fun, not because I wan't to qualify. But 18 dollars is too much to play one or two games in total.
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
It does if you give seeds to good players. This way the people will pay 18 dollars to play against a diamond or a master (which is a total rip off), and it wont be for a couple of rounds till they even get to the pros. Pros would then face off agaisnt these "paid" players and tear them a new hole (or on the off chance they lose, good for the paid players because they can now be considered a rising star!)
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
Research are you more or less likely to play in a tournament that you have no chance of winning if you have to play $20 as opposed to free.
Answer: Less Likely.
Obviously some players are going to play regardless, however if you can't see that having an entry fee would reduce the amount of non serious entrants on your own there is no way any of us are going to be explain it to you. It's not possible to explain things to people who ignore logic.
But there are still better systems. You are just choosing the model that puts the heavier burden in the players, are is not the most accurate at dragging the quality players for the qualifyers, and that also means players who are quite decent, but probably wouldn't qualify, and those are the ones that sometimes make upsets. I am pretty sure more people can pay 18 dollars than can say they are masters 1k. Merits > money.
There were plenty of options to reduce entrants. The qualifiers were supposed to be open so having a point minimum took away from that, and obviously having an entry fee also did in Blizzard's eyes. The amount of entrants is less MLGs fault and more on blizzard, as MLG originally had a way to minimize that amount of entrants, but Blizzard told them to make it free.
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
It does not stop all, but quite a few. If I was still playing the game it would have stopped me. I would play in a qualifier (EU qualifier) if I had the time because anybody can play and it is fun, not because I wan't to qualify. But 18 dollars is too much to play one or two games in total.
But there are still better systems. You are just choosing the model that puts the heavier burden in the players, are is not the most accurate at dragging the quality players for the qualifyers, and that also means players who are quite decent, but probably wouldn't qualify, and those are the ones that sometimes make upsets. I am pretty sure more people can pay 18 dollars than can say they are masters 1k. Merits > money.
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
Research are you more or less likely to play in a tournament that you have no chance of winning if you have to play $20 as opposed to free.
Answer: Less Likely.
Obviously some players are going to play regardless, however if you can't see that having an entry fee would reduce the amount of non serious entrants on your own there is no way any of us are going to be explain it to you. It's not possible to explain things to people who ignore logic.
Believe it or not, it might not be that simple. If it was free, I would never sign up because I have no business playing and so I am disincentived by moral obligation knowing that I shouldn't take a spot away from a legitimate player. However, add in a fee and suddenly I can feel that I deserve to be there because I paid for my spot. In that case, it becomes an issue of setting the fee properly. Setting a $1 fee will probably net you more players than if it was free, but at $18 that probably isn't the case (probably, I don't actually know).
I fully concur with the theme of this post: mistakes were made. Given this is the internet, people feel entitled to free content, so no matter how awesome something is, people will whine and cry. This is not one of those cases. This is a clear misrepresentation on talent.
On another note, Drunken Boi beats Miya. Blizzard. Wat.
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
It does if you give seeds to good players. This way the people will pay 18 dollars to play against a diamond or a master (which is a total rip off), and it wont be for a couple of rounds till they even get to the pros. Pros would then face off agaisnt these "paid" players and tear them a new hole (or on the off chance they lose, good for the paid players because they can now be considered a rising star!)
My point is that in the NA-region there are certainly 512 morons (below masters) like me that are willing to pay $18 to have a chance to compete against pro's and can say that they participated in the gsl-qualifier. YOLO!
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
Research are you more or less likely to play in a tournament that you have no chance of winning if you have to play $20 as opposed to free.
Answer: Less Likely.
Obviously some players are going to play regardless, however if you can't see that having an entry fee would reduce the amount of non serious entrants on your own there is no way any of us are going to be explain it to you. It's not possible to explain things to people who ignore logic.
Believe it or not, it might not be that simple. If it was free, I would never sign up because I have no business playing and so I am disincentived by moral obligation knowing that I shouldn't take a spot away from a legitimate player. However, add in a fee and suddenly I can feel that I deserve to be there because I paid for my spot. In that case, it becomes an issue of setting the fee properly. Setting a $1 fee will probably net you more players than if it was free, but at $18 that probably isn't the case (probably, I don't actually know).
I can't guarantee this, but any sort of monetary commitment is much more likely to decrease participation than increase it, a $1 event will have less people than a free one.
There is a reason there are no daily tournaments with a small fee associated with them, and it isn't too much participation,
I want to personally apologize to you on behalf of all of us at MLG for the mistakes we made with the WCS America Qualifier this weekend.
As many of you know, we have been working on a fast timeline with Blizzard and all of our partners to make the WCS a success and bring you as much competitive StarCraft content as possible. Unfortunately we made some errors that rippled throughout the weekend.
First, the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated which resulted in many excellent players not getting a chance to enter. We featured a 512-player, double elimination, best of three bracket to maximize individual players opportunity for success, however that impacted the scale of the tournament. Additionally, we experienced strains on both our online product and administrative staffing that should have been avoided. Finally, we admittedly made a poor decision to try to hold back some results of the tournament in order to make spoiler-free viewing a possibility. We will not do that again for any online qualifier.
We have immediately opened the final bracket to the public which can be found here.
We have also created a feedback email address specifically for WCS America. Going forward, please email your feedback, suggestions and complaints to WCSAMfeedback@mlg.tv. Our staff and I will monitor every email and aim to incorporate constructive feedback into our future plans.
Again, I want to apologize personally and on behalf of everyone at MLG, to the StarCraft community, the players and to Blizzard for failing to uphold the level of tournament execution we pride ourselves on.
I assure you that we are making every effort to rectify this for all future WCS America operations.
Sincerely,
Sundance DiGiovanni CEO Major League Gaming
So we get an apology, the bracket information that was already known was released, and there were no comments about the Chinese players. Absolutely fantastic, MLG.
That is so bad, not to mention the fact that despite the amount of people tuning in, the production value was as low as ESL's. If MLG was really caught off guard by blizzard's schedule, they should have asked for help. I mean, growth of E-sports BEFORE profit and crushing competition , right?
They should almost redo the entire thing given how it went.
I want to personally apologize to you on behalf of all of us at MLG for the mistakes we made with the WCS America Qualifier this weekend.
As many of you know, we have been working on a fast timeline with Blizzard and all of our partners to make the WCS a success and bring you as much competitive StarCraft content as possible. Unfortunately we made some errors that rippled throughout the weekend.
First, the demand to enter the WCS Qualifier was much higher than we had anticipated which resulted in many excellent players not getting a chance to enter. We featured a 512-player, double elimination, best of three bracket to maximize individual players opportunity for success, however that impacted the scale of the tournament. Additionally, we experienced strains on both our online product and administrative staffing that should have been avoided. Finally, we admittedly made a poor decision to try to hold back some results of the tournament in order to make spoiler-free viewing a possibility. We will not do that again for any online qualifier.
We have immediately opened the final bracket to the public which can be found here.
We have also created a feedback email address specifically for WCS America. Going forward, please email your feedback, suggestions and complaints to WCSAMfeedback@mlg.tv. Our staff and I will monitor every email and aim to incorporate constructive feedback into our future plans.
Again, I want to apologize personally and on behalf of everyone at MLG, to the StarCraft community, the players and to Blizzard for failing to uphold the level of tournament execution we pride ourselves on.
I assure you that we are making every effort to rectify this for all future WCS America operations.
Sincerely,
Sundance DiGiovanni CEO Major League Gaming
So we get an apology, the bracket information that was already known was released, and there were no comments about the Chinese players. Absolutely fantastic, MLG.
What a load of crap. They don't even know what people are upset about.
It's nice they tried to make it "spoiler free". Because i totally check the brackets and liquipedia when i want to see VODs. All the time + Show Spoiler +
yes, sarcasm
. Well good they realized it's a mistake, even if they do it backwards.
There are not going to be any words on the chinese players i assume. Now people is going to mail them throwing money at them thanks to TB youtube video as the thing is going on reddit.
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
Research are you more or less likely to play in a tournament that you have no chance of winning if you have to play $20 as opposed to free.
Answer: Less Likely.
Obviously some players are going to play regardless, however if you can't see that having an entry fee would reduce the amount of non serious entrants on your own there is no way any of us are going to be explain it to you. It's not possible to explain things to people who ignore logic.
Believe it or not, it might not be that simple. If it was free, I would never sign up because I have no business playing and so I am disincentived by moral obligation knowing that I shouldn't take a spot away from a legitimate player. However, add in a fee and suddenly I can feel that I deserve to be there because I paid for my spot. In that case, it becomes an issue of setting the fee properly. Setting a $1 fee will probably net you more players than if it was free, but at $18 that probably isn't the case (probably, I don't actually know).
I can't guarantee this, but any sort of monetary commitment is much more likely to decrease participation than increase it, a $1 event will have less people than a free one.
There is a reason there are no daily tournaments with a small fee associated with them, and it isn't too much participation,
They could also just instead give priority to respectable gaming teams or notable players. Via some kind of licensing system or something. Like have regular tournaments throughout the year who's pay out is a license to compete or get preferential treatment in larger tournaments. That tournament could be free to enter, while any open spots in major tournaments that are not filled for whatever reason could be sold to players without a license for like $50 dollars or something. Hell, you could organize all those dailies organizations to run the licensing tournaments with them reporting to Blizzard or some other eSports Association who would register the winners. Major tournaments focus on the big shows instead.
I did not really get why Comm coudnt play with his own account, was it because he took too long to register? BTW, that MLG apology doesnt really solve anything, lots of players still got screwed over
I hope the tournament admin responsible for most of those issues would be in charge of this email. And have to replay to each mail without using ctrl+c ctrl+v...
"demands to enter WCS was higher than anticipated", I mean did you really not see that Ro2048 bracket in EU just the weekend before?!?!?! And decisions to DQ a legitimate bracket finalist is mysteriously omitted?
Ok, but don't blame me if I misrepresent TB. There's a reason I posted the video rather than a summary, he makes quite refined points.
He recounted the main problems:
a) Hurried production, probably Blizz fault (but casters and prod. crew worked on their own initiative) b) Hyun situation lack of communication, bad for players he eliminated. c) Maphacker eliminated people, got through and then DQ. d) Chinese players excluded, especially bad that Comm was DQ'd at the brink of qualification. Should have just waved the rules at that point as it's bad for Comm and bad for everyone he eliminated. e) 500 man tournament reasonable, as EU was much too long.But participation should not have been entirely free. Fee would have helped, but vocal pitchforkers were given a say even though realistically every good player can get 18 bucks. There are other ways to achieve that the best players get in. f) A bit about it being bad that Koreans are taking over an NA tournament. e) Cannot keep results secret. Won't work. * Bonus, in the background there's a hilariously bad TvZ with mass-marine raven versus SH muta baneling. It was mesmerizing in the background.
Now go watch the actual video for a much better version of the main points.
I agree with most of his points. However: e) makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, in a 1024 qualifier you needed to pass 9 rounds in order to qualify. This is indeed fairly long if you reach the later rounds. But unlike MLG, ESL allowed the players to submit their results instantly and start the next round right away. In the MLG qualifier the top 4 needed to pass only 7 rounds but because there were ridiculous waiting times, due to the bracket not accepting results ahead of schedule, the first day of the qualifier was by no means shorter than the 1024 ESL one. Furthermore, a fee would discourage a lot of decent players to even try since the Koreans are far too likely to dominate the whole event (just as it happened). Most likely, this would have made the viewer experience even worse. Also, a fee is terrible for people outside of the US. $18 matter far more in South America and China than they do in the US. Not to mention that a lot of problems could arise from the payment system alone (again mainly for people outside the US).
If 18 dollars is too much as entry fee for the qualifier for the biggest tournament this year, than they wouldn't have afforded starcraft 2 in the first place.
Show me 1 research or result which states that if u ask for a fee during a 512 player bracket (with toppro's in them that have alot of fans), that bronze to masters players do not try to participate when asked a fee of $18,--. I am pretty sure that there are enough morons with a NA-account like me that would gladly pay $18,-- just to have a chance to 11/11 demuslim or other pro's and can say they participated in a gsl for just $18,--... FEES DO NOT STOP PEOPLE FROM PARTICIPATING IN A 512PLAYER BRACKET WHEN PRO'S PLAY IN IT!!!
Research are you more or less likely to play in a tournament that you have no chance of winning if you have to play $20 as opposed to free.
Answer: Less Likely.
Obviously some players are going to play regardless, however if you can't see that having an entry fee would reduce the amount of non serious entrants on your own there is no way any of us are going to be explain it to you. It's not possible to explain things to people who ignore logic.
Believe it or not, it might not be that simple. If it was free, I would never sign up because I have no business playing and so I am disincentived by moral obligation knowing that I shouldn't take a spot away from a legitimate player. However, add in a fee and suddenly I can feel that I deserve to be there because I paid for my spot. In that case, it becomes an issue of setting the fee properly. Setting a $1 fee will probably net you more players than if it was free, but at $18 that probably isn't the case (probably, I don't actually know).
Anyone who thinks that charging people for a tournament would increase participation or that charging people wouldn't detour casual gamers is just grasping a straws and trying to be difficult.
EPT
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