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Shellshock
United States97277 Posts
On April 18 2013 22:44 Whatson wrote: Oh, so he only wins against euros and NA players. Yeah shows how lacking the "foreigner top 10" is. *he beats foreigners! I can't believe he's ranked higher than foreigners!* | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10168 Posts
On April 18 2013 22:44 Whatson wrote: Oh, so he only wins against euros and NA players. Yeah shows how lacking the "foreigner top 10" is. Did you re-read what you just posted ? Hahaha. | ||
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
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Grovbolle
Denmark3825 Posts
Since there are SO many wrong interpretations in this thread already, I will try to explain some things about the site. First off, the rating is based SOLELY on results, not playstyle, not total domination, not tournament results, and not on stuff like streams/replays as some guy thought. ONLY WINS MATTER. Meaning that a win in an online qualifier Bo3 is the same as beating someone in Ro4 GSL. However, the likelihood of facing a highly rated opponent in GSL is bigger than in WCS EU Qualifier Ro64. Here are my POV on some claims made: ForGG is not 4th best in world: Agreed Kespa players are underrated: Agreed Picture the entire pool of points as one big circle ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1hcSTvA.png) The circle only grows in one way, when new players enter the pool, this creates a bit of inflation (similar to chess ELO and amount of chess GMs). How does a player gain points? Simply by overperforming, meaning that if you are set to lose 2-1 against someone, and beat him 0-2, you gain points in the given matchup (vT, vZ or vP). Why are the Kespa players so underrated? The Kespa players have very few games compared to the rest, and they mostly play each other, meaning that the total "pool of points" that most Kespa players are playing for grows very slowly. Players like Flash, Rain, Innovation (Bogus), PartinG etc. are bringing points from the other "pools" into the Kespa pool, thus raising the amount of points being fought over. Why is ForGG so highly rated? It is true that ForGG recently plowed a hell of a lot of mediocre terrans, boosting his TvT to a somewhat suspicious high, the amount of games ForGG plays, plus the fact that he owned A LOT of 900-1200 rated players in the specific match up gave him a lot of points, which he is losing to higher skilled but still lower rated players. The system had a huge shock with the entry of 100+ Kespa pros, who all started at 1000 rating, but who are arguably a lot stronger. It will take a significant period of time, and amount of games from these pros, to give the system time to "transfer" points to the Kespa players, and thus accurately reflect the skill level of the Kespa players in the ranking. Basically, the best way for this system to be 100% accurate is when everybody plays everybody, so points transfer freely, however there is still a huge disconnection between local and global scenes, as shown by TheBB in this thread. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396566 | ||
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Grovbolle
Denmark3825 Posts
On April 18 2013 22:26 Scarecrow wrote: Having only one player from SPL (currently has over half of code S) in your top 10 list makes your rating system garbage. Compare it to this http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players | ||
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Conti
Germany2516 Posts
On April 18 2013 22:01 SpaceYeti wrote: IS this still factoring in performance from WoL? or was it reset with HotS? Would be interesting to see a side by side comparison. The ratings make no difference between WoL and HotS. If you want to see what a HotS only rating would look like, have a look at the current state of TLPD's HotS ranking: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/hots/players. Aligulac's HotS-only ranking would look pretty much the same, I would imagine. As you can see, it's not exactly useful, since there haven't been nearly enough games being played so far. | ||
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MasterOfPuppets
Romania6942 Posts
On April 18 2013 22:44 Whatson wrote: Oh, so he only wins against euros and NA players. Yeah shows how lacking the "foreigner top 10" is. Other than LucifroN and MaNa I don't know who you expect to see ranked higher than him based on *recent* (and I can't stress this enough) results. | ||
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On April 18 2013 22:46 Shellshock1122 wrote: *he beats foreigners! I can't believe he's ranked higher than foreigners!* Uh some of those other players not in this top 10 actually beat Koreans..just saying Then again, HotS has made it so that Koreans will dominate even harder, so if these are recent results I'm not that surprised. | ||
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Nerski
United States1095 Posts
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TheBB
Switzerland5133 Posts
On April 18 2013 23:54 Whatson wrote: Uh some of those other players not in this top 10 actually beat Koreans..just saying Welmu is 48-56 against Koreans. | ||
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Sabre
United Kingdom1086 Posts
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yrt123
Singapore1246 Posts
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Nerski
United States1095 Posts
I'm sorry but I see no reason to go to your website what so ever. | ||
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Grovbolle
Denmark3825 Posts
On April 19 2013 00:09 Nerski wrote: Not posting any explanation of where those numbers are from, seems like a cheap advertisement for your site rather then paying TL to advertise. Not trying to be a jerk, just saying... I guess we just thought that by now, most posters know what Aligulac is. If you don't feel free to visit this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404035 The site was developed mainly for usage on this site, as an alternative to TLPD. Also advertising our site, you mean our non-profit, 0 ad site which TheBB pays for out of his own pocket? | ||
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Grovbolle
Denmark3825 Posts
On April 19 2013 00:14 Nerski wrote: Additionally what does your site offer that you can't already get from http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players I'm sorry but I see no reason to go to your website what so ever. Around 20k more games from EU/NA tournaments primarily. A monthly balance report. Predictive capabilities. Hierarchial access to matches from lots of events. (Probably every decent event worth mentioning). 0 ads. Earnings of players. | ||
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
On April 19 2013 00:14 Nerski wrote: Additionally what does your site offer that you can't already get from http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players I'm sorry but I see no reason to go to your website what so ever. TLPD is known for being incredibly out of date in the past, where Aligulac is not. Quit being an ass to people who made a great site. | ||
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dreamseller
Australia914 Posts
The sample size of this data is too small so the rankings are too far from current realities to be posting inflammatory "top ten lists" or claims that a race's dominance is over (although coincidentally it looks like that may be the case as tvz is looking reasonable at the highest level). The statistics and math is very interesting to a psyche major but also a bit disappointing that you haven't included more commmentary with this post, which is why you are getting a lot of wtf forGG posts and rightly so. The lack of data for Kespa pros means that people like roro innovation rain and flash aren't anywhere near as high as they should be based on how many wins they have been getting which means that they will need to continue to play dominantly for an unfairly long time to rank where they should be. This needs to be bolded on any "top ten list" which clearly doesn't show the top ten players. What this list makes a lot of people overlook in their justified confusion is that statistically it is exciting that overall, Zerg are winning significantly less compared to 2012 and this may mean a more exciting spectator experience. So it begs the question: why post such a list? For the purposes of a less contemptible ranking list would it be possible for it to represent a separate data set which reset either when Kespa joined sc2 or when hots came out? | ||
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TheBB
Switzerland5133 Posts
On April 19 2013 00:09 Nerski wrote: Not posting any explanation of where those numbers are from, seems like a cheap advertisement for your site rather then paying TL to advertise. On April 19 2013 00:14 Nerski wrote: Additionally what does your site offer that you can't already get from http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players I don't know man, I linked to the FAQ earlier. It contains most of what you are looking for. The source code for the website is available as well. I thought maybe I for once could just post a thread without prefacing it with copy pasta that most regular forumgoers here have read many times already. The site is ad-free and clinically stripped of ways to fatten my wallet. And that is also why I don't feel inclined to answer your second question. Feel free to use TLPD. It's a nice and accurate resource, but it doesn't offer even a fraction of the cool things one can do with the data that they have. On April 19 2013 00:19 dreamseller wrote: For the purposes of a less contemptible ranking list would it be possible for it to represent a separate data set which reset either when Kespa joined sc2 or when hots came out? It would be possible, but trust me on this, it would be far more WTF-worthy and confusing than ForGG on #4. Edit: Just so it's clear, I'm fine with constructive criticism. I get it a lot and many times they are entirely right. | ||
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DifuntO
Greece2376 Posts
On April 18 2013 22:52 Grovbolle wrote: ONLY WINS MATTER. Meaning that a win in an online qualifier Bo3 is the same as beating someone in Ro4 GSL. Isn't this a big flaw of the ranking system? | ||
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Grovbolle
Denmark3825 Posts
On April 19 2013 00:19 dreamseller wrote: I LOVE RANKING LISTS. The sample size of this data is too small so the rankings are too far from current realities to be posting inflammatory "top ten lists" or claims that a race's dominance is over (although coincidentally it looks like that may be the case as tvz is looking reasonable at the highest level). The statistics and math is very interesting to a psyche major but also a bit disappointing that you haven't included more commmentary with this post, which is why you are getting a lot of wtf forGG posts and rightly so. The lack of data for Kespa pros means that people like roro innovation rain and flash aren't anywhere near as high as they should be based on how many wins they have been getting which means that they will need to continue to play dominantly for an unfairly long time to rank where they should be. This needs to be bolded on any "top ten list" which clearly doesn't show the top ten players. What this list makes a lot of people overlook in their justified confusion is that statistically it is exciting that overall, Zerg are winning significantly less compared to 2012 and this may mean a more exciting spectator experience. So it begs the question: why post such a list? For the purposes of a less contemptible ranking list would it be possible for it to represent a separate data set which reset either when Kespa joined sc2 or when hots came out? I think I commented on most of your issues in my post with the big-ass picture on page 3 of this thread  The entire MySQL dump is free to use for non-commercial purposes, so knock yourself out. http://static.aligulac.com/aligulac.sql http://aligulac.com/db/ | ||
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