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On April 18 2013 21:23 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 21:20 ScrubS wrote:
The math seems pretty solid behind it. For those people wondering why the top 10 is rather strange, the website is based on a dataset of thousands of replays. Unfortuantely pro's dont release their replays (except streamers such as ForGG) and are therefore not rated correctly Not so much replays, just official matches I would think.
Even then the same problem pops up. If replays from only official matches would be taken, players from EU wouldn't be ever (or almost never) matched vs koreans, meaning that their relative ELO actually cannot be determined. This will ofcourse lead into flaws in the rankings.
The best would be if only matches/replays from the same tournament (or same class tournaments) would be considered, or at least from the same region. For example, the zotac cup and go4sc2cup are pretty similar level, and replays of those tournaments could be merged into a big dataset. GSL and GSTL goes the same, but not GSL and the zotac cup.
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On April 18 2013 21:23 ZenithM wrote:I like how I have no idea of the current skill level of some of the names of that list. Like, Lucifron, Sen and forGG what? :D Edit: And no Kespa players 
Kespa players will start raising as they play more GSL (MLGs too or is that completely over?). About Sen, forGG and lucifron, like kespa players, you should take into account that they play mostly in foreign competitions so while they are good foreigner players their aligulac rating is only accurate if you compare them with people who play in those competitions aswell.
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As usual, the overpowered, easy race a-move protoss is magically not well represented at the top.
User was warned for this post
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Free at last, hallelujah free at last! No longer are we under the boot of Broodlord infestor!
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IS this still factoring in performance from WoL? or was it reset with HotS? Would be interesting to see a side by side comparison.
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I thought RoRo was second just a few days ago.
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On April 18 2013 22:16 Darroth wrote:
I thought RoRo was second just a few days ago.
You are thinking of TLPD rating ?
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 18 2013 22:16 Darroth wrote:
I thought RoRo was second just a few days ago.
If you're thinking about TLPD, Roro is still second - Aligulac uses a separate rating system
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On April 18 2013 22:01 SpaceYeti wrote:
IS this still factoring in performance from WoL? or was it reset with HotS? Would be interesting to see a side by side comparison.
There was no reset.
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Funfact: GGanDoL have 666 rating. Conspiracy theory anyone?
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List is pretty invalid if there's no KESPA players.
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United States97277 Posts
I guess what's happening with kespa is when they all started playing they had no rating. then they only played each other so their rating didnt really go up. they only way their rating increases quickly is by beating players with established ratings, so the one that qualified for GSL are moving up. but then if they lost a game in proleague they lose to players with low rating because those players havent established a rating yet. it's kind of just a cycle that has to work itself out eventually. that's my take on it at least. could be completely wrong
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Having only one player from SPL (currently has over half of code S) in your top 10 list makes your rating system garbage.
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List is depressing. The 1 toss in the top 10 for foreigners is someone I have to ask myself if I've heard of him before, and a player whose only mu above 50% is p vs p. The stats better change a lot in HotS, or they may as well start holding Toss only tournaments.
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On April 18 2013 22:21 TAMinator wrote:
List is pretty invalid if there's no KESPA players.
Because subjectivity > math?
U wot m8.
On April 18 2013 22:27 playa wrote:
List is depressing. The 1 toss in the top 10 for foreigners is someone I have to ask myself if I've heard of him before, and a player whose only mu above 50% is p vs p. The stats better change a lot in HotS, or they may as well start holding Toss only tournaments.
I can see where you're coming from, but also it's your own problem if you don't follow the scene well enough to know Welmu. He's been around for a while and has always been a consistent, solid Protoss.
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This seems like it's lacking a lot of data to be reliable. Also guessing WCS EU is screwing over NA players a lot, which afaik haven't really had any real tourneys in HotS? Atleast the foreigner list is far from what I'd consider the top 10, and like I said noticeably many EU players.
Edit:
On April 18 2013 22:29 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 22:21 TAMinator wrote:
List is pretty invalid if there's no KESPA players. Because subjectivity > math? U wot m8. Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 22:27 playa wrote:
List is depressing. The 1 toss in the top 10 for foreigners is someone I have to ask myself if I've heard of him before, and a player whose only mu above 50% is p vs p. The stats better change a lot in HotS, or they may as well start holding Toss only tournaments. I can see where you're coming from, but also it's your own problem if you don't follow the scene well enough to know Welmu. He's been around for a while and has always been a consistent, solid Protoss.
I'm sure the person you are quoting isn't doubting the math behind the list, but rather that the dataset has any resemblance with the real skill level of players, when WoL stats and tourneys have only be held to specific portions of the world.
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On April 18 2013 22:30 Zarahtra wrote:
This seems like it's lacking a lot of data to be reliable. Also guessing WCS EU is screwing over NA players a lot, which afaik haven't really had any real tourneys in HotS? Atleast the foreigner list is far from what I'd consider the top 10, and like I said noticeably many EU players.
If I'm not mistaken, there's significantly more games in the Aligulac database than in TLPD.
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On April 18 2013 22:29 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 22:21 TAMinator wrote:
List is pretty invalid if there's no KESPA players. Because subjectivity > math? U wot m8. Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 22:27 playa wrote:
List is depressing. The 1 toss in the top 10 for foreigners is someone I have to ask myself if I've heard of him before, and a player whose only mu above 50% is p vs p. The stats better change a lot in HotS, or they may as well start holding Toss only tournaments. I can see where you're coming from, but also it's your own problem if you don't follow the scene well enough to know Welmu. He's been around for a while and has always been a consistent, solid Protoss.
Lol has welmu even won anything major, or is he just another one of those guys who gets knocked out in the Ro8 of a euro/NA tournament and gets called "good"
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On April 18 2013 22:35 Whatson wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 22:29 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 18 2013 22:21 TAMinator wrote:
List is pretty invalid if there's no KESPA players. Because subjectivity > math? U wot m8. On April 18 2013 22:27 playa wrote:
List is depressing. The 1 toss in the top 10 for foreigners is someone I have to ask myself if I've heard of him before, and a player whose only mu above 50% is p vs p. The stats better change a lot in HotS, or they may as well start holding Toss only tournaments. I can see where you're coming from, but also it's your own problem if you don't follow the scene well enough to know Welmu. He's been around for a while and has always been a consistent, solid Protoss. Lol has welmu even won anything major, or is he just another one of those guys who gets knocked out in the Ro8 of a euro/NA tournament and gets called "good"
I could say the same thing about a bunch of foreigners (who are actually far overrated compared to their actual results). And it depends what you mean by major. He won Assembly this year and placed 2nd in Copenhagen Games last year, both of which are very reputable scandinavian lans. But obviously you're going to decry that that's not good enough.
But I've watched him play and seen some pretty sick stuff.
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On April 18 2013 22:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 22:35 Whatson wrote:On April 18 2013 22:29 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 18 2013 22:21 TAMinator wrote:
List is pretty invalid if there's no KESPA players. Because subjectivity > math? U wot m8. On April 18 2013 22:27 playa wrote:
List is depressing. The 1 toss in the top 10 for foreigners is someone I have to ask myself if I've heard of him before, and a player whose only mu above 50% is p vs p. The stats better change a lot in HotS, or they may as well start holding Toss only tournaments. I can see where you're coming from, but also it's your own problem if you don't follow the scene well enough to know Welmu. He's been around for a while and has always been a consistent, solid Protoss. Lol has welmu even won anything major, or is he just another one of those guys who gets knocked out in the Ro8 of a euro/NA tournament and gets called "good" I could say the same thing about a bunch of foreigners (who are actually far overrated compared to their actual results). And it depends what you mean by major. He won Assembly this year and placed 2nd in Copenhagen Games last year, both of which are very reputable scandinavian lans. But obviously you're going to decry that that's not good enough. But I've watched him play and seen some pretty sick stuff.
Oh, so he only wins against euros and NA players. Yeah shows how lacking the "foreigner top 10" is.
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EPT
