• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:30
CEST 16:30
KST 23:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202550RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams5Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series [Update] ShieldBattery: 1v1 Fastest Support! ASL20 Preliminary Maps
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 975 users

Zerg rule finally toppled - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 10 11 12 Next All
ScrubS
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands436 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-18 12:32:31
April 18 2013 12:31 GMT
#21
On April 18 2013 21:23 dani` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2013 21:20 ScrubS wrote:
The math seems pretty solid behind it. For those people wondering why the top 10 is rather strange, the website is based on a dataset of thousands of replays. Unfortuantely pro's dont release their replays (except streamers such as ForGG) and are therefore not rated correctly

Not so much replays, just official matches I would think.


Even then the same problem pops up. If replays from only official matches would be taken, players from EU wouldn't be ever (or almost never) matched vs koreans, meaning that their relative ELO actually cannot be determined. This will ofcourse lead into flaws in the rankings.

The best would be if only matches/replays from the same tournament (or same class tournaments) would be considered, or at least from the same region. For example, the zotac cup and go4sc2cup are pretty similar level, and replays of those tournaments could be merged into a big dataset. GSL and GSTL goes the same, but not GSL and the zotac cup.
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10126 Posts
April 18 2013 12:32 GMT
#22
On April 18 2013 21:23 ZenithM wrote:
I like how I have no idea of the current skill level of some of the names of that list.
Like, Lucifron, Sen and forGG what? :D

Edit: And no Kespa players


Kespa players will start raising as they play more GSL (MLGs too or is that completely over?). About Sen, forGG and lucifron, like kespa players, you should take into account that they play mostly in foreign competitions so while they are good foreigner players their aligulac rating is only accurate if you compare them with people who play in those competitions aswell.
Forsy
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada36 Posts
April 18 2013 12:33 GMT
#23
As usual, the overpowered, easy race a-move protoss is magically not well represented at the top.

User was warned for this post
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 18 2013 12:42 GMT
#24
Free at last, hallelujah free at last! No longer are we under the boot of Broodlord infestor!
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
SpaceYeti
Profile Joined June 2010
United States723 Posts
April 18 2013 13:01 GMT
#25
IS this still factoring in performance from WoL? or was it reset with HotS? Would be interesting to see a side by side comparison.
Behavior is a function of its consequences.
Darroth
Profile Joined October 2012
United Kingdom38 Posts
April 18 2013 13:16 GMT
#26
I thought RoRo was second just a few days ago.
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10126 Posts
April 18 2013 13:18 GMT
#27
On April 18 2013 22:16 Darroth wrote:
I thought RoRo was second just a few days ago.


You are thinking of TLPD rating ?
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
April 18 2013 13:20 GMT
#28
On April 18 2013 22:16 Darroth wrote:
I thought RoRo was second just a few days ago.


If you're thinking about TLPD, Roro is still second - Aligulac uses a separate rating system
AdministratorBreak the chains
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
April 18 2013 13:21 GMT
#29
On April 18 2013 22:01 SpaceYeti wrote:
IS this still factoring in performance from WoL? or was it reset with HotS? Would be interesting to see a side by side comparison.

There was no reset.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
HaruRH
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Singapore2780 Posts
April 18 2013 13:21 GMT
#30
Funfact: GGanDoL have 666 rating. Conspiracy theory anyone?
It is fucking D4 and you are still alive as a CONFIRMED FUCKING TOWN. This is how fucking terrible scum thinks you are - Koshi
TAMinator
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia2706 Posts
April 18 2013 13:21 GMT
#31
List is pretty invalid if there's no KESPA players.
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-18 13:25:22
April 18 2013 13:25 GMT
#32
I guess what's happening with kespa is when they all started playing they had no rating. then they only played each other so their rating didnt really go up. they only way their rating increases quickly is by beating players with established ratings, so the one that qualified for GSL are moving up. but then if they lost a game in proleague they lose to players with low rating because those players havent established a rating yet. it's kind of just a cycle that has to work itself out eventually. that's my take on it at least. could be completely wrong
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
April 18 2013 13:26 GMT
#33
Having only one player from SPL (currently has over half of code S) in your top 10 list makes your rating system garbage.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
playa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1284 Posts
April 18 2013 13:27 GMT
#34
List is depressing. The 1 toss in the top 10 for foreigners is someone I have to ask myself if I've heard of him before, and a player whose only mu above 50% is p vs p. The stats better change a lot in HotS, or they may as well start holding Toss only tournaments.
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-18 13:30:56
April 18 2013 13:29 GMT
#35
On April 18 2013 22:21 TAMinator wrote:
List is pretty invalid if there's no KESPA players.


Because subjectivity > math?

U wot m8.

On April 18 2013 22:27 playa wrote:
List is depressing. The 1 toss in the top 10 for foreigners is someone I have to ask myself if I've heard of him before, and a player whose only mu above 50% is p vs p. The stats better change a lot in HotS, or they may as well start holding Toss only tournaments.


I can see where you're coming from, but also it's your own problem if you don't follow the scene well enough to know Welmu. He's been around for a while and has always been a consistent, solid Protoss.
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-18 13:33:59
April 18 2013 13:30 GMT
#36
This seems like it's lacking a lot of data to be reliable. Also guessing WCS EU is screwing over NA players a lot, which afaik haven't really had any real tourneys in HotS? Atleast the foreigner list is far from what I'd consider the top 10, and like I said noticeably many EU players.

Edit:
On April 18 2013 22:29 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2013 22:21 TAMinator wrote:
List is pretty invalid if there's no KESPA players.


Because subjectivity > math?

U wot m8.

Show nested quote +
On April 18 2013 22:27 playa wrote:
List is depressing. The 1 toss in the top 10 for foreigners is someone I have to ask myself if I've heard of him before, and a player whose only mu above 50% is p vs p. The stats better change a lot in HotS, or they may as well start holding Toss only tournaments.


I can see where you're coming from, but also it's your own problem if you don't follow the scene well enough to know Welmu. He's been around for a while and has always been a consistent, solid Protoss.

I'm sure the person you are quoting isn't doubting the math behind the list, but rather that the dataset has any resemblance with the real skill level of players, when WoL stats and tourneys have only be held to specific portions of the world.
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
April 18 2013 13:31 GMT
#37
On April 18 2013 22:30 Zarahtra wrote:
This seems like it's lacking a lot of data to be reliable. Also guessing WCS EU is screwing over NA players a lot, which afaik haven't really had any real tourneys in HotS? Atleast the foreigner list is far from what I'd consider the top 10, and like I said noticeably many EU players.


If I'm not mistaken, there's significantly more games in the Aligulac database than in TLPD.
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5356 Posts
April 18 2013 13:35 GMT
#38
On April 18 2013 22:29 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2013 22:21 TAMinator wrote:
List is pretty invalid if there's no KESPA players.


Because subjectivity > math?

U wot m8.

Show nested quote +
On April 18 2013 22:27 playa wrote:
List is depressing. The 1 toss in the top 10 for foreigners is someone I have to ask myself if I've heard of him before, and a player whose only mu above 50% is p vs p. The stats better change a lot in HotS, or they may as well start holding Toss only tournaments.


I can see where you're coming from, but also it's your own problem if you don't follow the scene well enough to know Welmu. He's been around for a while and has always been a consistent, solid Protoss.

Lol has welmu even won anything major, or is he just another one of those guys who gets knocked out in the Ro8 of a euro/NA tournament and gets called "good"
¯\_(シ)_/¯
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
April 18 2013 13:39 GMT
#39
On April 18 2013 22:35 Whatson wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2013 22:29 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
On April 18 2013 22:21 TAMinator wrote:
List is pretty invalid if there's no KESPA players.


Because subjectivity > math?

U wot m8.

On April 18 2013 22:27 playa wrote:
List is depressing. The 1 toss in the top 10 for foreigners is someone I have to ask myself if I've heard of him before, and a player whose only mu above 50% is p vs p. The stats better change a lot in HotS, or they may as well start holding Toss only tournaments.


I can see where you're coming from, but also it's your own problem if you don't follow the scene well enough to know Welmu. He's been around for a while and has always been a consistent, solid Protoss.

Lol has welmu even won anything major, or is he just another one of those guys who gets knocked out in the Ro8 of a euro/NA tournament and gets called "good"


I could say the same thing about a bunch of foreigners (who are actually far overrated compared to their actual results). And it depends what you mean by major. He won Assembly this year and placed 2nd in Copenhagen Games last year, both of which are very reputable scandinavian lans. But obviously you're going to decry that that's not good enough.

But I've watched him play and seen some pretty sick stuff.
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5356 Posts
April 18 2013 13:44 GMT
#40
On April 18 2013 22:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2013 22:35 Whatson wrote:
On April 18 2013 22:29 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
On April 18 2013 22:21 TAMinator wrote:
List is pretty invalid if there's no KESPA players.


Because subjectivity > math?

U wot m8.

On April 18 2013 22:27 playa wrote:
List is depressing. The 1 toss in the top 10 for foreigners is someone I have to ask myself if I've heard of him before, and a player whose only mu above 50% is p vs p. The stats better change a lot in HotS, or they may as well start holding Toss only tournaments.


I can see where you're coming from, but also it's your own problem if you don't follow the scene well enough to know Welmu. He's been around for a while and has always been a consistent, solid Protoss.

Lol has welmu even won anything major, or is he just another one of those guys who gets knocked out in the Ro8 of a euro/NA tournament and gets called "good"


I could say the same thing about a bunch of foreigners (who are actually far overrated compared to their actual results). And it depends what you mean by major. He won Assembly this year and placed 2nd in Copenhagen Games last year, both of which are very reputable scandinavian lans. But obviously you're going to decry that that's not good enough.

But I've watched him play and seen some pretty sick stuff.

Oh, so he only wins against euros and NA players. Yeah shows how lacking the "foreigner top 10" is.
¯\_(シ)_/¯
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 10 11 12 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Esports World Cup
10:00
2025 - Day 3
Maru vs CureLIVE!
herO vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
EWC_Arena11475
ComeBackTV 2542
TaKeTV 583
JimRising 433
Hui .422
3DClanTV 279
Rex272
EnkiAlexander 190
Berry_CruncH188
mcanning165
CranKy Ducklings132
Reynor102
SpeCial85
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EWC_Arena11475
JimRising 433
Hui .422
Rex 272
mcanning 165
Reynor 102
SpeCial 85
UpATreeSC 84
ProTech55
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 3509
Sea 2723
Flash 2471
TY 1265
BeSt 963
EffOrt 907
Jaedong 718
Mini 615
ggaemo 418
ZerO 325
[ Show more ]
Stork 301
Soulkey 271
Soma 253
Hyuk 249
Zeus 224
Larva 193
Mind 169
Snow 156
Pusan 143
ToSsGirL 101
Hyun 99
Light 81
sorry 73
JulyZerg 70
JYJ60
Sharp 45
Sea.KH 44
sas.Sziky 40
Movie 33
yabsab 22
zelot 22
soO 19
Sacsri 11
scan(afreeca) 10
IntoTheRainbow 9
Terrorterran 9
Dewaltoss 0
Dota 2
420jenkins378
syndereN331
XcaliburYe299
League of Legends
febbydoto13
Counter-Strike
fl0m3096
ScreaM582
sgares401
zeus95
markeloff82
edward14
Other Games
singsing2403
B2W.Neo1374
hiko891
Beastyqt730
crisheroes397
Happy224
QueenE64
ArmadaUGS62
KnowMe18
ZerO(Twitch)15
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 7
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4828
• WagamamaTV606
League of Legends
• Nemesis3755
• Jankos1237
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
20h 30m
OSC
23h 30m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 19h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 23h
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.