On April 17 2013 02:52 govie wrote: Everyone should stop whining so much.
I can see what blizzard is trying to do here and quite frankly, i think there plan will work. Code S and A everywhere with a big final between regional champions. It really looks good. Everything is gonna work out fine after a transition period im sure
I like the qualifiers very much allready. 30k+ viewers every day for amateurs that are being casted by pro's... thats fucking freakin amazing!
Yes, code s kr is not code s anymore, this because we have a world cup now This wcs format will be awesome.
I don't know what you are watching, but even if you add up all the streams, it's not 30k..not even 20k...and there is overlap (especially today with NASL and ESL doing coverage)
On April 17 2013 02:52 govie wrote: Everyone should stop whining so much.
I can see what blizzard is trying to do here and quite frankly, i think there plan will work. Code S and A everywhere with a big final between regional champions. It really looks good. Everything is gonna work out fine after a transition period im sure
I like the qualifiers very much allready. 30k+ viewers every day for amateurs that are being casted by pro's... thats fucking freakin amazing!
Yes, code s kr is not code s anymore, this because we have a world cup now This wcs format will be awesome.
The result of this: Esports growth NA: increase Esports growth: EU: increase Esports growth KR: decrease substantially.
Blizzard: appease to global market Blizzard: does not perceive Korea as mecca of esports.
Agree with everything except :
1. Esports SC2 scene in korea is allready huge (sometimes growth is hard when u are allready so huge) 2. If i was blizzard i would see the world as the mecca of sc2 and not 1 region.
SC2 is nowhere near "huge" in Korea, and has never truly been. StarCraft as a whole? Yes. But professional Brood War in Korea is now dead, so that's not relevant anymore.
The reason Blizzard should take special care of Korea is because they have the infrastructure that nurtures the best StarCraft players.
On April 17 2013 02:52 govie wrote: Everyone should stop whining so much.
I can see what blizzard is trying to do here and quite frankly, i think there plan will work. Code S and A everywhere with a big final between regional champions. It really looks good. Everything is gonna work out fine after a transition period im sure
I like the qualifiers very much allready. 30k+ viewers every day for amateurs that are being casted by pro's... thats fucking freakin amazing!
Yes, code s kr is not code s anymore, this because we have a world cup now This wcs format will be awesome.
The result of this: Esports growth NA: increase Esports growth: EU: increase Esports growth KR: decrease substantially.
Blizzard: appease to global market Blizzard: does not perceive Korea as mecca of esports.
Agree with everything except :
1. Esports SC2 scene in korea is allready huge (sometimes growth is hard when u are allready so huge) 2. If i was blizzard i would see the world as the mecca of sc2 and not 1 region.
See the thing is..right now.not a lot of people care about sc2...lol
It was growing with Kespa + ESF slowly and maturely coming together. with GSL + OSL + GSTL + SPL + WCS. Now they took GSL/OSL away and put a WCS tag on it. SPL is always going to be self-sustaining. GSTL..not so much. The korean scene isnt that great for sc2 right now..in all honesty. They need thr growth up to the old bw days and they were getting there slowly..but I think this sets them back a little bit.
Only chance of a new revival...would probably be the return of MBC: e-sports channel and the re-creation of MSL but thats a long shot.
On April 17 2013 02:52 govie wrote: Everyone should stop whining so much.
I can see what blizzard is trying to do here and quite frankly, i think there plan will work. Code S and A everywhere with a big final between regional champions. It really looks good. Everything is gonna work out fine after a transition period im sure
I like the qualifiers very much allready. 30k+ viewers every day for amateurs that are being casted by pro's... thats fucking freakin amazing!
Yes, code s kr is not code s anymore, this because we have a world cup now This wcs format will be awesome.
The result of this: Esports growth NA: increase Esports growth: EU: increase Esports growth KR: decrease substantially.
Blizzard: appease to global market Blizzard: does not perceive Korea as mecca of esports.
Agree with everything except :
1. Esports SC2 scene in korea is allready huge (sometimes growth is hard when u are allready so huge) 2. If i was blizzard i would see the world as the mecca of sc2 and not 1 region.
SC2 is nowhere near "huge" in Korea, and has never truly been. StarCraft as a whole? Yes. But professional Brood War in Korea is now dead, so that's not relevant anymore.
The reason Blizzard should take special care of Korea is because they have the infrastructure that nurtures the best StarCraft players.
The fact blizzard copied code s and code a seems to me they are nurturing korea. gsl has got everything they wanted out of this deal.
1) WCS Korea has a rotation of 24 players each season and WCS EU and NA only have a rotation of 8, which is totally BS 2) I find that winning a DH (big ones), for example, could have been more rewarding in term of points 3) Time to think about team leagues to pull again GSTL prestige and create some kind of GSTL for EU and NA
On April 17 2013 02:52 govie wrote: Everyone should stop whining so much.
I can see what blizzard is trying to do here and quite frankly, i think there plan will work. Code S and A everywhere with a big final between regional champions. It really looks good. Everything is gonna work out fine after a transition period im sure
I like the qualifiers very much allready. 30k+ viewers every day for amateurs that are being casted by pro's... thats fucking freakin amazing!
Yes, code s kr is not code s anymore, this because we have a world cup now This wcs format will be awesome.
The result of this: Esports growth NA: increase Esports growth: EU: increase Esports growth KR: decrease substantially.
Blizzard: appease to global market Blizzard: does not perceive Korea as mecca of esports.
Agree with everything except :
1. Esports SC2 scene in korea is allready huge (sometimes growth is hard when u are allready so huge) 2. If i was blizzard i would see the world as the mecca of sc2 and not 1 region.
SC2 is nowhere near "huge" in Korea, and has never truly been. StarCraft as a whole? Yes. But professional Brood War in Korea is now dead, so that's not relevant anymore.
The reason Blizzard should take special care of Korea is because they have the infrastructure that nurtures the best StarCraft players.
The fact blizzard copied code s and code a seems to me they are. gsl has got everything they wanted out of this deal.
It's not about the tournament system (although I agree it's a good one), it's about teamhouses and work ethic. An environment where players practice a shitload against really good players with coaches overlooking their games and helping them better themselves, with them being taken care of by managers, maids and chefs, in an environment that breeds cooperation and friendliness.
That's the real advantage right there that Koreans have over other places, and as I pointed out earlier, if the teams operate at too much of a loss then that will be gone.
EDIT:
Wait scratch that. What? You're saying just because Blizzard copied their tournament model and pasted it abroad, that means anything for the Korean scene? How is that even remotely helpful for them?
The thing is... the stated goal of blizzard is to make Koreans and their team houses move to EU/NA. The point is to make SC2 a more global game where your skill level isn't dependent on where you live. If this balances the ladder where the top of the Korean ladder is at the same level as the NA/EU ladder, then mission accomplished.
So youre saying the ultimate goal of this is... they want to promote other korean teams to get VISAs for all their players/coaches etc Move into a completely new environment where they will face great cultural barrier/communication/ more expenses + tax Just to even out the playing field? That's not happening. Not happening because again, its not logical to do so.
You want to establish team houses in EU/NA? Make a freakin team league..a competent one where its held offline, has large prize pool. You dont necessarily have to take away anything from the KR scene to cultivate growth on other regions but that is quite apparent from what I see right nojw.
Jesus dude could you be more negative about this? Do you not understand that Blizzard investing $1.6 Million dollars to give to the players is a great thing for our scene? And they are clearly going to improve the system overtime. Hell it only began a couple of weeks ago and people like you are going batshit crazy about everything Blizzard does saying it is horrible and is going to kill the Korean scene. That obviously isn't true. The fact is that at the end of the road players will earn tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars. Also they are making sure that up and coming players have actually have a GOAL to try and get results. Before this there is no way that a high masters or a low gm would ever think about completely dropping their school/job to try and pursuit becoming a pro gamer. And ontop of that Blizzard is giving more money to tournaments to increase production value. Be grateful for what Blizzard is doing and the fact that they are actively trying to grow our scene and benefit the players. Give it some time man.
I was one of the few defending the idea of WCS when TB/Catz were ranting about it because the details werent in place but now..I can see why there's a large reason to complain about. I'm not saying Blizzard investing 1.6million dollars is terrible. It's great! Blizzard cares! What my complaint is that they put in a system that's obviously flawed. Again; you dont need to take away things from the Korean scene for global growth. This is whats happening right now with the new WCS system. Their idea of growth is "give and take"
Nothing is stopping the Korean scene from holding their own weekend tournaments. GOM worked with IPL and learned how to hold something like that, so it's not Blizzard's fault if the Korean scene doesn't want to expand their own tournament scene.
Actually there is something stopping them. SC2 is not very big in Korea. I think if such an event were profitable, they would undoubtedly have done it by now, but it clearly isn't.
Remember the ESV Weekly tournaments? The ESports Monthly Cup? Tournaments that offered a fair bit of money for up-and-coming Code B/A players and gave them just a bit more exposure, while at the same time providing some more quality entertainment and high level play for the spectators at home. You know what happened? They went under because almost nobody cared to watch them. GSL and StarLeague have the advantage of prestige which makes even more casual viewers tune in.
The same stuff happened to the NA equivalents. It's not a Korea-centric thing, but a global phenomena.
I can see where you're coming from with this, it's true that none of them did all too well, but at the same time they're not very comparable. Sometimes you would get ZOTACs or Playhem Dailies or Go4SC2 cups break several thousand concurrents even going back as far as 2011, back when Khaldor and ESLtv used to cast them. Meanwhile, I've rarely seen the Korean online tournaments of the same daily/weekly scale break more than a few hundred. So I think it's fair to say, it kind of is a Korean-related problem in this sense.
Well, that's a very big difference. Korea in 2011 still had Brood War on TV. This is the first year where you actually have high-level SC2 being promoted in Korea. It wasn't even until this agreement was reached that the GSL was broadcast on OGN. Having both GSL and Proleague on OGN is a big deal as far as making SC2 a bigger deal.
That said, I'm more of the opinion that it isn't really the foreign scene's duty to support the Korean scene. Most of those views on the ESV weeklies were international viewers. If SC2 isn't sustainable in Korea, then oh well, we'll still have the international scene where the viewers are.
See, I agree with you on the idea that it isn't the foreign scene's duty to support the Korean one. Ideally, Blizzard, GOM and OGN should all work together to make it happen. So far on Blizzard's side, things are looking pretty grim.
But here's the real kicker. You can't just say "if SC2 isn't sustainable in Korea then oh well". The reason you can't say this is because if SC2 isn't sustainable in Korea, you'll have a lot of Korean pros either retire or join western teams, where they will no longer benefit from the coaching and practice regimen of their Korean teamhouses. This will consequently lead to a steady decline in player skill at the top level, simply because they will no longer be taken care of with maids, chefs, coaches and all that.
You have to look at it from this angle as well.
That's a better angle to look at it from. In order for esport to actually be a thing, it needs to be a global thing, not just a Korea thing. If SC2 turns into BW 2.0, then Blizzard and every other esports organization has failed and failed big time. We're going to have to see what the sustainable model for Western esport is. We'll see if the West evolves Korean-style teamhouses, but I'm not sure we will.
Look at Olympic sports in the 70s and 80s: the West didn't look at East German practice regimens and say "we need some of that."
On April 17 2013 02:52 govie wrote: Everyone should stop whining so much.
I can see what blizzard is trying to do here and quite frankly, i think there plan will work. Code S and A everywhere with a big final between regional champions. It really looks good. Everything is gonna work out fine after a transition period im sure
I like the qualifiers very much allready. 30k+ viewers every day for amateurs that are being casted by pro's... thats fucking freakin amazing!
Yes, code s kr is not code s anymore, this because we have a world cup now This wcs format will be awesome.
I don't know what you are watching, but even if you add up all the streams, it's not 30k..not even 20k...and there is overlap (especially today with NASL and ESL doing coverage)
yesterday 30k+ viewers! im sure dude
Haha, let me do the math for this very moment:
NASL 11.4k WCS Eu 6.9k sc2tv.ru 4.1k mori 2.9 EmpireTVorg 2.1k ESL.TV pl 1.5k ESL France 1.4k + 7 other streams including BaseTradeTV (<3) 0.8k
On April 17 2013 02:52 govie wrote: Everyone should stop whining so much.
I can see what blizzard is trying to do here and quite frankly, i think there plan will work. Code S and A everywhere with a big final between regional champions. It really looks good. Everything is gonna work out fine after a transition period im sure
I like the qualifiers very much allready. 30k+ viewers every day for amateurs that are being casted by pro's... thats fucking freakin amazing!
Yes, code s kr is not code s anymore, this because we have a world cup now This wcs format will be awesome.
I don't know what you are watching, but even if you add up all the streams, it's not 30k..not even 20k...and there is overlap (especially today with NASL and ESL doing coverage)
yesterday 30k+ viewers! im sure dude
At the least. In terms of unique viewers over the whole event, probably more like 50+
On April 17 2013 02:52 govie wrote: Everyone should stop whining so much.
I can see what blizzard is trying to do here and quite frankly, i think there plan will work. Code S and A everywhere with a big final between regional champions. It really looks good. Everything is gonna work out fine after a transition period im sure
I like the qualifiers very much allready. 30k+ viewers every day for amateurs that are being casted by pro's... thats fucking freakin amazing!
Yes, code s kr is not code s anymore, this because we have a world cup now This wcs format will be awesome.
I don't know what you are watching, but even if you add up all the streams, it's not 30k..not even 20k...and there is overlap (especially today with NASL and ESL doing coverage)
yesterday 30k+ viewers! im sure dude
Haha, let me do the math for this very moment:
NASL 11.4k WCS Eu 6.9k sc2tv.ru 4.1k mori 2.9 EmpireTVorg 2.1k ESL.TV pl 1.5k ESL France 1.4k + 7 other streams including BaseTradeTV (<3) 0.8k
On April 17 2013 02:52 govie wrote: Everyone should stop whining so much.
I can see what blizzard is trying to do here and quite frankly, i think there plan will work. Code S and A everywhere with a big final between regional champions. It really looks good. Everything is gonna work out fine after a transition period im sure
I like the qualifiers very much allready. 30k+ viewers every day for amateurs that are being casted by pro's... thats fucking freakin amazing!
Yes, code s kr is not code s anymore, this because we have a world cup now This wcs format will be awesome.
The result of this: Esports growth NA: increase Esports growth: EU: increase Esports growth KR: decrease substantially.
Blizzard: appease to global market Blizzard: does not perceive Korea as mecca of esports.
Agree with everything except :
1. Esports SC2 scene in korea is allready huge (sometimes growth is hard when u are allready so huge) 2. If i was blizzard i would see the world as the mecca of sc2 and not 1 region.
SC2 is nowhere near "huge" in Korea, and has never truly been. StarCraft as a whole? Yes. But professional Brood War in Korea is now dead, so that's not relevant anymore.
The reason Blizzard should take special care of Korea is because they have the infrastructure that nurtures the best StarCraft players.
The fact blizzard copied code s and code a seems to me they are nurturing korea. gsl has got everything they wanted out of this deal.
eh I don't really think so, because gsl is probably going to lose a good chunk of dough due to the commitment for free 720 broadcast and various players moving to other WCS (example: team liquid and EG korean players, such as hero and taeja and jaedong)
I don't know the price of gsl stuff formerly or now but if you take 20,000 people/year paying 50 bucks for gsl (which I think it it was like 15-20+ USD per season right? Or a year pass for every gom content as like 100?) that is a nice 1,000,000 dollars from user subscriptions (before any other stuff, like licensing fees to blizzard or taxes or whatnot)
I wouldn't say papa blizzard stepping in for gom necessarily is going to bring as much revenue as gom could potentially had from selling their passes to the sweet foreign market, with the free 720p broadcast, popular players leaving gsl, etc etc
definitely early to say gsl could get everything they wanted out of the deal.
only 8 qualifying for each new season in EU and NA is disappointing for sure. imo the current GSL format is the absolute perfect tournament format, nothing should be changed and everything should just be copied. you could maaaaybe make the finals bo9, but that's really the only change i'd even consider a possibility.
also, that's a pretty big cut into the GSL prizepool, which is very disappointing to see as well, and it's also pretty dumb as more money for GSL would likely encourage more Koreans to stay in Korea.
On April 17 2013 02:52 govie wrote: Everyone should stop whining so much.
I can see what blizzard is trying to do here and quite frankly, i think there plan will work. Code S and A everywhere with a big final between regional champions. It really looks good. Everything is gonna work out fine after a transition period im sure
I like the qualifiers very much allready. 30k+ viewers every day for amateurs that are being casted by pro's... thats fucking freakin amazing!
Yes, code s kr is not code s anymore, this because we have a world cup now This wcs format will be awesome.
I don't know what you are watching, but even if you add up all the streams, it's not 30k..not even 20k...and there is overlap (especially today with NASL and ESL doing coverage)
yesterday 30k+ viewers! im sure dude
Haha, let me do the math for this very moment:
NASL 11.4k WCS Eu 6.9k sc2tv.ru 4.1k mori 2.9 EmpireTVorg 2.1k ESL.TV pl 1.5k ESL France 1.4k + 7 other streams including BaseTradeTV (<3) 0.8k
31.2k watching right now.
Yes. And we have barely reached RO32.
And its the god damn qualifiers. Pro tip: people fucking love to watch SC2. Best players. Bad players. Fun players. Mean players. We all love to watch SC2 a whole bunch.
On April 17 2013 03:19 Schelim wrote: only 8 qualifying for each new season in EU and NA is disappointing for sure. imo the current GSL format is the absolute perfect tournament format, nothing should be changed and everything should just be copied. you could maaaaybe make the finals bo9, but that's really the only change i'd even consider a possibility.
also, that's a pretty big cut into the GSL prizepool, which is very disappointing to see as well, and it's also pretty dumb as more money for GSL would likely encourage more Koreans to stay in Korea.
They will change stuff up. Right now I think they want to provide stability and then switch it up if it gets to stale. I like the current system, since it provides a solid reason to work hard to get into Code S NA and EU.
On April 17 2013 03:19 Schelim wrote: only 8 qualifying for each new season in EU and NA is disappointing for sure. imo the current GSL format is the absolute perfect tournament format, nothing should be changed and everything should just be copied. you could maaaaybe make the finals bo9, but that's really the only change i'd even consider a possibility.
also, that's a pretty big cut into the GSL prizepool, which is very disappointing to see as well, and it's also pretty dumb as more money for GSL would likely encourage more Koreans to stay in Korea.
They will change stuff up. Right now I think they want to provide stability and then switch it up if it gets to stale. I like the current system, since it provides a solid reason to work hard to get into Code S NA and EU.
Are you ignoring the fact that every Korean is now in a worse position considering even a Code S win only gives 20k? And don't give me this "oh if they're the best they'll just win the season finals too." You and I both know the skill gap at the top is tiny, and people rarely have repeat wins. What this does is make it a lot harder for a Code S contender to actually justify a big tournament win, since even winning Code S isn't a huge deal anymore what with the reduced prize pool. Now they have to win two tournaments to get slightly more money. That's stupid and awful.
On April 17 2013 02:52 govie wrote: Everyone should stop whining so much.
I can see what blizzard is trying to do here and quite frankly, i think there plan will work. Code S and A everywhere with a big final between regional champions. It really looks good. Everything is gonna work out fine after a transition period im sure
I like the qualifiers very much allready. 30k+ viewers every day for amateurs that are being casted by pro's... thats fucking freakin amazing!
Yes, code s kr is not code s anymore, this because we have a world cup now This wcs format will be awesome.
I don't know what you are watching, but even if you add up all the streams, it's not 30k..not even 20k...and there is overlap (especially today with NASL and ESL doing coverage)
yesterday 30k+ viewers! im sure dude
Haha, let me do the math for this very moment:
NASL 11.4k WCS Eu 6.9k sc2tv.ru 4.1k mori 2.9 EmpireTVorg 2.1k ESL.TV pl 1.5k ESL France 1.4k + 7 other streams including BaseTradeTV (<3) 0.8k
On April 17 2013 02:52 govie wrote: Everyone should stop whining so much.
I can see what blizzard is trying to do here and quite frankly, i think there plan will work. Code S and A everywhere with a big final between regional champions. It really looks good. Everything is gonna work out fine after a transition period im sure
I like the qualifiers very much allready. 30k+ viewers every day for amateurs that are being casted by pro's... thats fucking freakin amazing!
Yes, code s kr is not code s anymore, this because we have a world cup now This wcs format will be awesome.
I don't know what you are watching, but even if you add up all the streams, it's not 30k..not even 20k...and there is overlap (especially today with NASL and ESL doing coverage)
yesterday 30k+ viewers! im sure dude
Haha, let me do the math for this very moment:
NASL 11.4k WCS Eu 6.9k sc2tv.ru 4.1k mori 2.9 EmpireTVorg 2.1k ESL.TV pl 1.5k ESL France 1.4k + 7 other streams including BaseTradeTV (<3) 0.8k
31.2k watching right now.
thx:D
You're welcome. I'm watching the numbers and they are going up.
Also notice how nice they are spread out over the national streams - this is a great indicator of sc2 doing well in different countries.
EPT
