• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:44
CEST 12:44
KST 19:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview4Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7
Community News
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event7Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster11Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week4Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12
StarCraft 2
General
how long does robinhood support take HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview HSC 27 players & groups The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $200 Biweekly - StarCraft Evolution League #1 SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series EWC 2025 Online Qualifiers (May 28-June 1, June 21-22)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL20 Preliminary Maps Where is effort ? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Preserving Battlereports.com
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - WB Finals & LBR3 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - LB Round 4 & 5
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Social coupon sites UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Game Sound vs. Music: The Im…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 622 users

WCS 2013 Format, Players, Prizes and Point Details - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
474 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 24 Next All
Prog455
Profile Joined April 2012
Denmark970 Posts
April 16 2013 20:38 GMT
#221
On April 17 2013 02:28 LighT. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 02:19 Prog455 wrote:
On April 17 2013 01:40 LighT. wrote:
On April 17 2013 01:33 MVTaylor wrote:
On April 17 2013 01:24 LighT. wrote:
It's essentially a trade off.
It's either..
DO YOU WANT MORE REPRESENTATIVES FROM OTHER NATIONS OTHER THAN KOREA?
or....
DO YOU WANT TO SEE MORE HIGHER LEVEL COMPETITION?


No it fucking isn't for god sake.

Before this year WCS announcement we had the GSL and nothing for foreigners and after ti we STILL have the GSL, some tournaments MOSTLY for foreigners then 3 Seasonal Finals and 1 Yearly Grand final.

So, we get more representatives from other countries, but obviously less than lass year AND we get more high level competition with more tournaments.

No....youre wrong. So completely wrong
You arent getting my freakin point.
WCS: NA = 5 Seeds
WCS: KR = 5 Seeds
Although 5=5 may look like balance. IT ISNT.
Am I complaining that there's a WCS:NA? NO. So dont bring that up.
In the Seasons Finals and Blizzcon, by equating the seeds for each region, you're dropping off the level of competition.
Tell me that a 5th place WCS:KR player is equivalent in skill to a 5th place of a WCS: EU Player.
WCS: Korea or...might as well call it WCS: Asia CLEARLY deserves some sort of advantage or perks because it's the most competitive BY FAR. But there isnt.
A Flash or a Rain = Goody? Thorzain?? Dont make me laugh.

Again stressing my point: MORE REPRESENTATIVES FROM OTHER NATIONS HAS A INVERT RELATIONHIP TO THE LEVEL OF COMPETITION IN THE SEASON FINALS.



Get real dude. There is currently as many GSL Code S Gold medals in WCS EU Premier as there is in Code S. And why would you assume someone like Goody will be in top 5? It would more likely be something like: Mvp, MMM, Stephano, Naniwa (who made it to Code S ro8 twice in a row) and Ret.

There is a pretty substantial difference between EU and NA, and quite of a few of the European players can beat Koreans, especially those Koreans who play in WCS NA.

Oh..?
Is that your argument?
Since there's as many GSL Code S golde models as there is in Code S KR right now; suddenly its justified?
Is that how it works in your model?
I guess if you watn to perceive it that way...
We can see that clearly MVP + 4 Euros is clearly superior to Flash/Rain/Innovation/Parting/Life/Bomber since they have a combined 1 Gold Medall in total

Oh yes..
MMA..the washed up guy who hasnt done a thing for ages...
Ahh who could forget Stephano..who put up a mere 50% winrate vs mid-tier koreans and got his butt kicked in Code S.
Ret....ah yes ret...the guy who got completely demolished by Flash in MLG where it looked like a grand masters player vs a silver leaguer.
Naniwa. I'll give you that. He's an unknown at the moment. Which is why I didnt list him. I respect his skill however.

If blizzard thinks MVP + Naniwa + 3 either washed up Koreans or Euros = 5 Top Tier Code S players
They're delusional.


I am not saying that Mvp, Naniwa or Stephano is equal to Flash, Rain, Innovation, Parting, Life or Bomber. What i am saying is that Besides those 6 players and Leenock, there is no one in Korea that top European players can't beat.

I would never complete count Mvp out - he may not be as good as he used to but he has been slumping before and managed to get back in the game. Same goes for Stephano. He is not doing quite as well as he used to, but he was proven several times that he can beat anyone, including Bomber in the finals of Lone Star Clash 2. MMA might be more of a wildcard, but i don't see why he should not be able to step up his game. especially with the new Medivac buff. Let me just remind you that Bomber was at one point considered the best at TvT in the world, but went into a slump much like MMA. Despite Bombers long slump, and the fact that he is among the most inconsistent progamers in SC2, you still think that he is miles ahead of MMA?

While those playing in WCS EU may not be top notch, there is quite a few who can take games of Koreans, and i'd say that top 5 in EU is atleast equal to low Code S.
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
April 16 2013 20:40 GMT
#222
On April 17 2013 04:59 MCXD wrote:
Points system is super, super terrible. Like, super unbelievably terrible. I could probably dedicate an article to picking apart all of the absolutely stupid things about it, but I won't (maybe), because it's not like going to all of that effort would change anything v_v

I posted this a couple of weeks ago, anticipating that this is exactly what would happen, and it's still relevant: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=406081

Every player currently in Code B (esp Korean) is completely fucked over, and every player in Code S is laughing, no questions asked, because Blizzard refused to be intelligent and creative with their point allocations and just went for the brain-dead approach that ignored the nature of tiering. Incredibly frustrating. I feel for the progamers who have to put up with it.

Here's something else to put it into perspective: A player who wins a GSL then immediately drops out of the GSL still has a decent shot of getting to the season final; if they win that then disappears from the face of the earth (retires even) they will still have more points than a player who gets 4 consecutive 2nd place finishes in the GSL. Also a player who goes 0-4 in the Code S Ro32 and 0-2 in their first Code A match to fall straight to Code B, walks away with equal amounts of points as the players who won every single Code A match that season.

Consistency, eh? That makes me laugh.

Youre misreading the point systems
A player who wins a GSL gets 1.5k points.
He'd also have to win the seasons finals = 3k points
and then he's pretty much locked in for grand finals

Also whoever qualifies for Code S from Code A will automatically get at least the Ro32 points too...
The point system is not that bad
Its the money and the allocation of seeds which is the problem.
Proseat
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Germany5113 Posts
April 16 2013 20:43 GMT
#223
I wish they'd adhere more to the actual GSL system as they alluded to in the first announcements, especially when it comes to the qualifiers, Code A, and the Up and Downs. All these exceptions and different brandings for the various regions waters down the idea of this global system.
The Rise and Fall of SlayerS -- a timeline: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=378097
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
April 16 2013 20:44 GMT
#224
On April 17 2013 05:38 Prog455 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 02:28 LighT. wrote:
On April 17 2013 02:19 Prog455 wrote:
On April 17 2013 01:40 LighT. wrote:
On April 17 2013 01:33 MVTaylor wrote:
On April 17 2013 01:24 LighT. wrote:
It's essentially a trade off.
It's either..
DO YOU WANT MORE REPRESENTATIVES FROM OTHER NATIONS OTHER THAN KOREA?
or....
DO YOU WANT TO SEE MORE HIGHER LEVEL COMPETITION?


No it fucking isn't for god sake.

Before this year WCS announcement we had the GSL and nothing for foreigners and after ti we STILL have the GSL, some tournaments MOSTLY for foreigners then 3 Seasonal Finals and 1 Yearly Grand final.

So, we get more representatives from other countries, but obviously less than lass year AND we get more high level competition with more tournaments.

No....youre wrong. So completely wrong
You arent getting my freakin point.
WCS: NA = 5 Seeds
WCS: KR = 5 Seeds
Although 5=5 may look like balance. IT ISNT.
Am I complaining that there's a WCS:NA? NO. So dont bring that up.
In the Seasons Finals and Blizzcon, by equating the seeds for each region, you're dropping off the level of competition.
Tell me that a 5th place WCS:KR player is equivalent in skill to a 5th place of a WCS: EU Player.
WCS: Korea or...might as well call it WCS: Asia CLEARLY deserves some sort of advantage or perks because it's the most competitive BY FAR. But there isnt.
A Flash or a Rain = Goody? Thorzain?? Dont make me laugh.

Again stressing my point: MORE REPRESENTATIVES FROM OTHER NATIONS HAS A INVERT RELATIONHIP TO THE LEVEL OF COMPETITION IN THE SEASON FINALS.



Get real dude. There is currently as many GSL Code S Gold medals in WCS EU Premier as there is in Code S. And why would you assume someone like Goody will be in top 5? It would more likely be something like: Mvp, MMM, Stephano, Naniwa (who made it to Code S ro8 twice in a row) and Ret.

There is a pretty substantial difference between EU and NA, and quite of a few of the European players can beat Koreans, especially those Koreans who play in WCS NA.

Oh..?
Is that your argument?
Since there's as many GSL Code S golde models as there is in Code S KR right now; suddenly its justified?
Is that how it works in your model?
I guess if you watn to perceive it that way...
We can see that clearly MVP + 4 Euros is clearly superior to Flash/Rain/Innovation/Parting/Life/Bomber since they have a combined 1 Gold Medall in total

Oh yes..
MMA..the washed up guy who hasnt done a thing for ages...
Ahh who could forget Stephano..who put up a mere 50% winrate vs mid-tier koreans and got his butt kicked in Code S.
Ret....ah yes ret...the guy who got completely demolished by Flash in MLG where it looked like a grand masters player vs a silver leaguer.
Naniwa. I'll give you that. He's an unknown at the moment. Which is why I didnt list him. I respect his skill however.

If blizzard thinks MVP + Naniwa + 3 either washed up Koreans or Euros = 5 Top Tier Code S players
They're delusional.


I am not saying that Mvp, Naniwa or Stephano is equal to Flash, Rain, Innovation, Parting, Life or Bomber. What i am saying is that Besides those 6 players and Leenock, there is no one in Korea that top European players can't beat.

I would never complete count Mvp out - he may not be as good as he used to but he has been slumping before and managed to get back in the game. Same goes for Stephano. He is not doing quite as well as he used to, but he was proven several times that he can beat anyone, including Bomber in the finals of Lone Star Clash 2. MMA might be more of a wildcard, but i don't see why he should not be able to step up his game. especially with the new Medivac buff. Let me just remind you that Bomber was at one point considered the best at TvT in the world, but went into a slump much like MMA. Despite Bombers long slump, and the fact that he is among the most inconsistent progamers in SC2, you still think that he is miles ahead of MMA?

While those playing in WCS EU may not be top notch, there is quite a few who can take games of Koreans, and i'd say that top 5 in EU is atleast equal to low Code S.

Last time I remember....all the euros dropped to Code B from GSL and the one Code S player who's playing for WCS EU (MC) isnt even in this season. I think youre seriously overrating the EU players (and seeing youre from denmark..I can understand the little bias) if you think they're at least low Code S. The most generous thing to say is that at best they're low code S material. That still doesnt justify giving them equal # of seedings as the koreans
JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4400 Posts
April 16 2013 20:51 GMT
#225
Dang I was holding out hope that they would give the Korean seasons a higher prize pool but nope this is just pretty freaking horrible. Korea gets literally nothing for this. This was pure charity for EU/NA. Korea already had these events. In fact they had more of and better versions of these events before Blizzard stepped in. There was most likely going to be 2 OSLs and there would have been an extra GSL. So they are losing 2 events. They are also losing a bunch of prize money per event.
Zax19
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Czech Republic1136 Posts
April 16 2013 20:57 GMT
#226
It’s still kinda confusing and way too top heavy :/
Really Blizz, really? - Darnell
Killmouse
Profile Joined August 2010
Austria5700 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-16 20:59:59
April 16 2013 20:59 GMT
#227
ops
yo
Oukka
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Finland1683 Posts
April 16 2013 21:01 GMT
#228
This looks great! I personally admire Blizzard's decision to balance the Korea vs. Rest-of-the-world prize money distribution. Though I can also understand the arguments that this might skew the player pool in a way that results to unoptimal participant lists for the final tournaments.
I play children's card games and watch a lot of dota, CS and HS
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 16 2013 21:04 GMT
#229
On April 17 2013 05:51 JJH777 wrote:
Dang I was holding out hope that they would give the Korean seasons a higher prize pool but nope this is just pretty freaking horrible. Korea gets literally nothing for this. This was pure charity for EU/NA. Korea already had these events. In fact they had more of and better versions of these events before Blizzard stepped in. There was most likely going to be 2 OSLs and there would have been an extra GSL. So they are losing 2 events. They are also losing a bunch of prize money per event.

How do you know that Blizzard caused there to be less events over all? Although there was a delay in the new season of GSL, that was mostly due to HotS. Considering that last year there were way to many events, this may be the exact number they planed to run this year.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4400 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-16 21:07:26
April 16 2013 21:06 GMT
#230
On April 17 2013 06:04 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 05:51 JJH777 wrote:
Dang I was holding out hope that they would give the Korean seasons a higher prize pool but nope this is just pretty freaking horrible. Korea gets literally nothing for this. This was pure charity for EU/NA. Korea already had these events. In fact they had more of and better versions of these events before Blizzard stepped in. There was most likely going to be 2 OSLs and there would have been an extra GSL. So they are losing 2 events. They are also losing a bunch of prize money per event.

How do you know that Blizzard caused there to be less events over all? Although there was a delay in the new season of GSL, that was mostly due to HotS. Considering that last year there were way to many events, this may be the exact number they planed to run this year.


They already announced that they were going to do 4 GSLs. Now they are doing 3. That's one of the main reasons they let people get a refund on their yearly ticket.
Prog455
Profile Joined April 2012
Denmark970 Posts
April 16 2013 21:06 GMT
#231
On April 17 2013 05:44 LighT. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 05:38 Prog455 wrote:
On April 17 2013 02:28 LighT. wrote:
On April 17 2013 02:19 Prog455 wrote:
On April 17 2013 01:40 LighT. wrote:
On April 17 2013 01:33 MVTaylor wrote:
On April 17 2013 01:24 LighT. wrote:
It's essentially a trade off.
It's either..
DO YOU WANT MORE REPRESENTATIVES FROM OTHER NATIONS OTHER THAN KOREA?
or....
DO YOU WANT TO SEE MORE HIGHER LEVEL COMPETITION?


No it fucking isn't for god sake.

Before this year WCS announcement we had the GSL and nothing for foreigners and after ti we STILL have the GSL, some tournaments MOSTLY for foreigners then 3 Seasonal Finals and 1 Yearly Grand final.

So, we get more representatives from other countries, but obviously less than lass year AND we get more high level competition with more tournaments.

No....youre wrong. So completely wrong
You arent getting my freakin point.
WCS: NA = 5 Seeds
WCS: KR = 5 Seeds
Although 5=5 may look like balance. IT ISNT.
Am I complaining that there's a WCS:NA? NO. So dont bring that up.
In the Seasons Finals and Blizzcon, by equating the seeds for each region, you're dropping off the level of competition.
Tell me that a 5th place WCS:KR player is equivalent in skill to a 5th place of a WCS: EU Player.
WCS: Korea or...might as well call it WCS: Asia CLEARLY deserves some sort of advantage or perks because it's the most competitive BY FAR. But there isnt.
A Flash or a Rain = Goody? Thorzain?? Dont make me laugh.

Again stressing my point: MORE REPRESENTATIVES FROM OTHER NATIONS HAS A INVERT RELATIONHIP TO THE LEVEL OF COMPETITION IN THE SEASON FINALS.



Get real dude. There is currently as many GSL Code S Gold medals in WCS EU Premier as there is in Code S. And why would you assume someone like Goody will be in top 5? It would more likely be something like: Mvp, MMM, Stephano, Naniwa (who made it to Code S ro8 twice in a row) and Ret.

There is a pretty substantial difference between EU and NA, and quite of a few of the European players can beat Koreans, especially those Koreans who play in WCS NA.

Oh..?
Is that your argument?
Since there's as many GSL Code S golde models as there is in Code S KR right now; suddenly its justified?
Is that how it works in your model?
I guess if you watn to perceive it that way...
We can see that clearly MVP + 4 Euros is clearly superior to Flash/Rain/Innovation/Parting/Life/Bomber since they have a combined 1 Gold Medall in total

Oh yes..
MMA..the washed up guy who hasnt done a thing for ages...
Ahh who could forget Stephano..who put up a mere 50% winrate vs mid-tier koreans and got his butt kicked in Code S.
Ret....ah yes ret...the guy who got completely demolished by Flash in MLG where it looked like a grand masters player vs a silver leaguer.
Naniwa. I'll give you that. He's an unknown at the moment. Which is why I didnt list him. I respect his skill however.

If blizzard thinks MVP + Naniwa + 3 either washed up Koreans or Euros = 5 Top Tier Code S players
They're delusional.


I am not saying that Mvp, Naniwa or Stephano is equal to Flash, Rain, Innovation, Parting, Life or Bomber. What i am saying is that Besides those 6 players and Leenock, there is no one in Korea that top European players can't beat.

I would never complete count Mvp out - he may not be as good as he used to but he has been slumping before and managed to get back in the game. Same goes for Stephano. He is not doing quite as well as he used to, but he was proven several times that he can beat anyone, including Bomber in the finals of Lone Star Clash 2. MMA might be more of a wildcard, but i don't see why he should not be able to step up his game. especially with the new Medivac buff. Let me just remind you that Bomber was at one point considered the best at TvT in the world, but went into a slump much like MMA. Despite Bombers long slump, and the fact that he is among the most inconsistent progamers in SC2, you still think that he is miles ahead of MMA?

While those playing in WCS EU may not be top notch, there is quite a few who can take games of Koreans, and i'd say that top 5 in EU is atleast equal to low Code S.

Last time I remember....all the euros dropped to Code B from GSL and the one Code S player who's playing for WCS EU (MC) isnt even in this season. I think youre seriously overrating the EU players (and seeing youre from denmark..I can understand the little bias) if you think they're at least low Code S. The most generous thing to say is that at best they're low code S material. That still doesnt justify giving them equal # of seedings as the koreans


I think that it is partly true that it doesn't justify the amount of seeds given to EU and NA. However, it would cause problems when you had to decide prize pool and seeds between EU and NA if they were not even. EU has the better players by quite a margin, but NA may be harder because they have more Koreans, and because some of the better EU players are playing in NA. So which one should get the higher prize pool? And should that prize pool change every season depending on the number of Koreans? I believe the reason to give equal prize pools is because the goal is to close the gap, so that ideally Korea would not be miles ahead.

And i still think that atleast Naniwa and Stephano is solid Code S material. Naniwa has been in ro8 twice and i don't see why he shouldn't be able to get back on top.
jiberish
Profile Joined April 2011
80 Posts
April 16 2013 21:08 GMT
#232
Seems worse now for the players. There will be more money distribution because of league locks. But before there were numerous leagues giving 25-50k per season. Now it is 20k. I figured with blizz's cash injection it would have gone up.

Maybe now it will increase attendance to non wcs events like DH, NASL etc
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 16 2013 21:18 GMT
#233
On April 17 2013 06:08 jiberish wrote:
Seems worse now for the players. There will be more money distribution because of league locks. But before there were numerous leagues giving 25-50k per season. Now it is 20k. I figured with blizz's cash injection it would have gone up.

Maybe now it will increase attendance to non wcs events like DH, NASL etc

Prize money is not the center of the world. I mean, if you look at the World Cup, World Series or Super Bowl, they don't even talk about it. Also, I would prefer events hand out a reasonable amount of money, rather than breaking the bank just to one up eachother.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 16 2013 21:19 GMT
#234
On April 17 2013 06:06 JJH777 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 06:04 Plansix wrote:
On April 17 2013 05:51 JJH777 wrote:
Dang I was holding out hope that they would give the Korean seasons a higher prize pool but nope this is just pretty freaking horrible. Korea gets literally nothing for this. This was pure charity for EU/NA. Korea already had these events. In fact they had more of and better versions of these events before Blizzard stepped in. There was most likely going to be 2 OSLs and there would have been an extra GSL. So they are losing 2 events. They are also losing a bunch of prize money per event.

How do you know that Blizzard caused there to be less events over all? Although there was a delay in the new season of GSL, that was mostly due to HotS. Considering that last year there were way to many events, this may be the exact number they planed to run this year.


They already announced that they were going to do 4 GSLs. Now they are doing 3. That's one of the main reasons they let people get a refund on their yearly ticket.


This seems better for GSL across the board. More support from Blizzard, more viewers and they are on OGN. Exposure on OGN is likely super helpful for the Korean teams too.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4400 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-16 21:24:47
April 16 2013 21:24 GMT
#235
On April 17 2013 06:19 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 06:06 JJH777 wrote:
On April 17 2013 06:04 Plansix wrote:
On April 17 2013 05:51 JJH777 wrote:
Dang I was holding out hope that they would give the Korean seasons a higher prize pool but nope this is just pretty freaking horrible. Korea gets literally nothing for this. This was pure charity for EU/NA. Korea already had these events. In fact they had more of and better versions of these events before Blizzard stepped in. There was most likely going to be 2 OSLs and there would have been an extra GSL. So they are losing 2 events. They are also losing a bunch of prize money per event.

How do you know that Blizzard caused there to be less events over all? Although there was a delay in the new season of GSL, that was mostly due to HotS. Considering that last year there were way to many events, this may be the exact number they planed to run this year.


They already announced that they were going to do 4 GSLs. Now they are doing 3. That's one of the main reasons they let people get a refund on their yearly ticket.


This seems better for GSL across the board. More support from Blizzard, more viewers and they are on OGN. Exposure on OGN is likely super helpful for the Korean teams too.


I guess that is helping the Korean scene but they could have done that without decreasing the number of events and prize money per event. It also doesn't help me as a foreign viewer at all. I am going to watch almost no WCS EU and very little WCS NA. There are way less weekend tournaments than last year as well (this one isn't Blizzard's fault of course). Now there is even less Korean events (this one is Blizzard's fault). Overall WCS has made it so I am going watch far less StarCraft this year than I was going to before. It's just depressing.
scypio
Profile Joined December 2011
Poland2127 Posts
April 16 2013 21:38 GMT
#236
2012: OMG, so many tournaments, the scene is so oversaturated, this cannot go on
2013: OMG, so many tournaments died, the scene is diminishing, this cannot go on, #savehots TT qq
I play random | I like Hots | INnoVation | sOs | Tefel TOP1!
Shinta)
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1716 Posts
April 16 2013 21:42 GMT
#237
On April 17 2013 05:40 LighT. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 04:59 MCXD wrote:
Points system is super, super terrible. Like, super unbelievably terrible. I could probably dedicate an article to picking apart all of the absolutely stupid things about it, but I won't (maybe), because it's not like going to all of that effort would change anything v_v

I posted this a couple of weeks ago, anticipating that this is exactly what would happen, and it's still relevant: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=406081

Every player currently in Code B (esp Korean) is completely fucked over, and every player in Code S is laughing, no questions asked, because Blizzard refused to be intelligent and creative with their point allocations and just went for the brain-dead approach that ignored the nature of tiering. Incredibly frustrating. I feel for the progamers who have to put up with it.

Here's something else to put it into perspective: A player who wins a GSL then immediately drops out of the GSL still has a decent shot of getting to the season final; if they win that then disappears from the face of the earth (retires even) they will still have more points than a player who gets 4 consecutive 2nd place finishes in the GSL. Also a player who goes 0-4 in the Code S Ro32 and 0-2 in their first Code A match to fall straight to Code B, walks away with equal amounts of points as the players who won every single Code A match that season.

Consistency, eh? That makes me laugh.

Youre misreading the point systems
A player who wins a GSL gets 1.5k points.
He'd also have to win the seasons finals = 3k points
and then he's pretty much locked in for grand finals

Also whoever qualifies for Code S from Code A will automatically get at least the Ro32 points too...
The point system is not that bad
Its the money and the allocation of seeds which is the problem.


I see your point. The Code S money should be a bit higher as it would make more sense. Something to consider though is that the Code A money is significantly larger for Korea than it is for NA/EU. So much so that the 41-64th place Korean Code A player gets more money than the 1st place NA/EU player. That's pretty nice.
I do think that they need a bit more money in Code S to be more realistic, however it's not realistic to give that money away right now most likely.

Also, if you really think about it, this format is going to keep Korea in a very sustainable position, allowing a very viable professional scene to florish so long as the scene and the teams are well supported.
The format is also going to allow for top NA/EU players to actually play SC2 seriously and professionally. An American isn't going to have to be in EG in order to quit their job and play only SC2 (although they will need a team to support them, they don't have to be filthy rich).

It really seems like this format is going to allow NA and EU to play catch up, while not hurting Korea's financial stability.

Sure it sucks to not get filthy rich off of 1 tournament, but eSports isn't about getting filthy rich off of 1 tournament. This is aiming for a more globalized setting for eSports and SC2.


Another look at the points system makes me believe it's still not too bad. It's going to reward those NA/EU players who devoted themselves to their new found profession over the last year, and not someone who simply had a good tournament. At the same time, Koreans are still going to get more money than them because they are going to take the top places, because they are the best in the world.

Eventually though, because this system is supporting the growth of NA and EU, the level of gameplay we see in the global finals will improve.



I feel you're going to be angry whenever anyone who's not a Korean is playing because they aren't as good as Koreans, but that's not what anyone else is worried about here. The issue at hand is the growth of eSports and SC2.
Suteki Da Ne 素敵だね Isn't it Wonderful
Champloo
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1850 Posts
April 16 2013 21:45 GMT
#238
Prize distribution is too top heavy imo, that needs to be changed sooner or later so more players can fully concentrate on going pro.

Can someone confirm if the NA WCS qualifiers will really be casted from replays? That would be a horrible turnoff for me.
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
April 16 2013 21:57 GMT
#239
On April 17 2013 06:42 Shinta) wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 05:40 LighT. wrote:
On April 17 2013 04:59 MCXD wrote:
Points system is super, super terrible. Like, super unbelievably terrible. I could probably dedicate an article to picking apart all of the absolutely stupid things about it, but I won't (maybe), because it's not like going to all of that effort would change anything v_v

I posted this a couple of weeks ago, anticipating that this is exactly what would happen, and it's still relevant: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=406081

Every player currently in Code B (esp Korean) is completely fucked over, and every player in Code S is laughing, no questions asked, because Blizzard refused to be intelligent and creative with their point allocations and just went for the brain-dead approach that ignored the nature of tiering. Incredibly frustrating. I feel for the progamers who have to put up with it.

Here's something else to put it into perspective: A player who wins a GSL then immediately drops out of the GSL still has a decent shot of getting to the season final; if they win that then disappears from the face of the earth (retires even) they will still have more points than a player who gets 4 consecutive 2nd place finishes in the GSL. Also a player who goes 0-4 in the Code S Ro32 and 0-2 in their first Code A match to fall straight to Code B, walks away with equal amounts of points as the players who won every single Code A match that season.

Consistency, eh? That makes me laugh.

Youre misreading the point systems
A player who wins a GSL gets 1.5k points.
He'd also have to win the seasons finals = 3k points
and then he's pretty much locked in for grand finals

Also whoever qualifies for Code S from Code A will automatically get at least the Ro32 points too...
The point system is not that bad
Its the money and the allocation of seeds which is the problem.


I see your point. The Code S money should be a bit higher as it would make more sense. Something to consider though is that the Code A money is significantly larger for Korea than it is for NA/EU. So much so that the 41-64th place Korean Code A player gets more money than the 1st place NA/EU player. That's pretty nice.
I do think that they need a bit more money in Code S to be more realistic, however it's not realistic to give that money away right now most likely.

Also, if you really think about it, this format is going to keep Korea in a very sustainable position, allowing a very viable professional scene to florish so long as the scene and the teams are well supported.
The format is also going to allow for top NA/EU players to actually play SC2 seriously and professionally. An American isn't going to have to be in EG in order to quit their job and play only SC2 (although they will need a team to support them, they don't have to be filthy rich).

It really seems like this format is going to allow NA and EU to play catch up, while not hurting Korea's financial stability.

Sure it sucks to not get filthy rich off of 1 tournament, but eSports isn't about getting filthy rich off of 1 tournament. This is aiming for a more globalized setting for eSports and SC2.


Another look at the points system makes me believe it's still not too bad. It's going to reward those NA/EU players who devoted themselves to their new found profession over the last year, and not someone who simply had a good tournament. At the same time, Koreans are still going to get more money than them because they are going to take the top places, because they are the best in the world.

Eventually though, because this system is supporting the growth of NA and EU, the level of gameplay we see in the global finals will improve.



I feel you're going to be angry whenever anyone who's not a Korean is playing because they aren't as good as Koreans, but that's not what anyone else is worried about here. The issue at hand is the growth of eSports and SC2.

I like watching EU/NA games. Ive been following the EU qualifiers for the past two days passively because guys like Sterlok and Bunny have produced some entertaining games. However, I am going to be angry if I see a far more inferior player make it to the season finals over one of the 10s of better Korean betters that could have taken his place.

Blizzard, I feel, has stunted the growth of Korean E-sports for NA/EU to basically catch up. The problem is....Korea has still A LOT of work to do in terms of esports growth. HoTS + Kespa players switching over did pull a few people in but not enough..or relevant enough to gain that full bw crowd into the SPL/GSTL stands. Not a lot of people care about sc2 in Korea than people think, staying away because its not "original" and "easy"..at least speaking to my relatives/cousins etc.

Another point to make is that..I was excited at the prospect of OSL/GSL because of the fact that it brings back the duo tournaments (and I'm speaking as also a bw fan here) when it was OSL/MSL running at the same time. The GSL becoming the new MSL. But nope, they took that away. On top of that...they combined the two and made the winner of the combined "OSL/GSL" tournament..which should be prestrigious as EVER, some entry ticket to some season finale...while throw a bit of money at the winner and giving a paper that says "Good Job".
negativedge
Profile Joined December 2011
4279 Posts
April 16 2013 22:43 GMT
#240
there's really zero reason for any korean to try for GSL/OSL if they can afford plane tickets to NA/EU for the offline stuff. It's a joke. I started out quite happy with the WCS stuff, but literally every piece of information that has come out has been disappointing.
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 24 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PondCast
10:00
Episode 52
CranKy Ducklings53
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
DeMusliM 234
Lowko89
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3469
Soma 1197
Horang2 707
Stork 360
hero 258
Killer 217
EffOrt 200
ZerO 178
Last 130
Snow 106
[ Show more ]
Zeus 88
Pusan 80
Dewaltoss 79
Hyun 62
Mong 58
sorry 50
Rush 42
NaDa 24
Sexy 21
JYJ19
zelot 19
Movie 14
sSak 10
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Bale 7
Shine 6
ivOry 3
Dota 2
XcaliburYe289
BananaSlamJamma228
Fuzer 140
Counter-Strike
x6flipin271
Other Games
singsing1199
ceh9669
crisheroes274
Mew2King194
ToD181
XaKoH 145
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream26096
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 1040
UltimateBattle 74
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH306
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2388
Other Games
• WagamamaTV102
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
13h 16m
HomeStory Cup
1d
HomeStory Cup
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
SOOP
2 days
SHIN vs ByuN
HomeStory Cup
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV European League
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Rose Open S1
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.