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Really sad news from Catz regarding all this:
http://de.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1c1slt/my_views_on_wcsregional_based_leagues_region/
+ Show Spoiler +EDIT: CLG one of the most prominent and well known League of Legends teams was planning to INVEST money into StarCraft 2, with the announcement of WCS in North America and Europe, they viewed NA as a feasible market to invest money into and grow talent, as the exposure these NA players would get by competing in a tournament with realistic chances of winning would provide CLG's sponsors. I as the owner of ROOT can only invest the money that we have and we have a fuckload of players already so growing more is close to impossible in terms of numbers for me, as I mentioned before, I try to as much as I can. For this reason alone, I volunteered to help CLG's management to find and foster North American Talent, provide these players with support and welcome CLG into our scene, we were throwing names around, all a very exciting prospect. They were even planning on opening a team house for StarCraft 2 in North America... With the announcement of the amount of Koreans joining in on WCS NA, CLG's business manager just msg'd me on skype: [4:54:22 AM] Kelby May: hmm [4:54:39 AM] Kelby May: well, we are probably not doing an SC 2 team anymore, because of http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=407158[4:55:10 AM] Paulo "CatZ" Vizcarra: do you mind if I quote you on reddit? [4:55:19 AM] Paulo "CatZ" Vizcarra: it would be really instrumental to the point im trying to illustrate [4:55:20 AM] Kelby May: absolutely, go for it Is no one else as sad as I am?
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On April 10 2013 19:28 Bagi wrote:
One thing I don't really understand is Mvp to Europe. MC, Forgg and MMA make sense because they all play for European teams, makes travelling and other logistics much easier. Tails and Finale just wanna try their luck I guess. But why Mvp?
I explained the most likely reason in a previous post of mine!
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=407158¤tpage=7#128
The lag will be quite something though, I wonder if maybe SK will set something up and MC and Mvp can both move to EU and live there during WCS.
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On April 10 2013 19:27 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 18:56 Broodwurst wrote:On April 10 2013 18:54 Qikz wrote:
The only thing is (TotalBiscuit if you read this)
Why are you sending the Axiom guys to the US and not Europe? The team has no connection to the EU, why would they? TotalBiscuit is English... Him and his wife AFAIK are both European. :p
His Wife (Manager of the Team) is American and him and her both live in america.
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On April 10 2013 19:28 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 19:24 Maesy wrote:
"We're announcing this huge tournament that will be split into regions to encourage more participation from upcoming players in places other than Korea, but here's the kick. Professional Korean players are still going to come to each region to play and take all of the money anyways because we're not going to implement any kind of restrictions. Enjoy."
Sincerely, The tournament that's making GSL less prestigious and pulling over champions to play, causing them to not reappear in the GSL until 2014, and given they're successful, they may not even reappear in 2014. Citation that shows that the bold part is blizzard's goal? I thought it was to get more Korean to move to NA / EUR to improve the practice environment overseas.
How do Koreans tiers above everyone else coming overseas and smashing people a lot worse than them improve a practice environment, especially when most of the tournament is done online? Not really seeing your point. There is no citation, I just don't see any other reason for it to be made that way.
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On April 10 2013 19:28 Bagi wrote:
One thing I don't really understand is Mvp to Europe. MC, Forgg and MMA make sense because they all play for European teams, makes travelling and other logistics much easier. Tails and Finale just wanna try their luck I guess. But why Mvp?
maybe because he's done so well at IEMs? idk, this whole thing is kinda BS, they should've just done it like last year
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On April 10 2013 19:29 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 19:27 Godwrath wrote:On April 10 2013 19:18 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 19:10 budar wrote:On April 10 2013 18:52 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 18:47 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2013 18:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 18:37 playa wrote:On April 10 2013 18:34 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Can someone please explain how this ruins anything?
Keep in mind that a GSL style NA/EU tournament with similar prize money didn't exist before this. Keep in mind that every country had a WCS last season and Koreans were only playing in the Korean WCS. Thus, non Koreans could actually win something... So now they actually have to play better players to win something... Oh no! I'm sorry but I'm having a real hard time sympathizing with all this entitlement coming out of the foreign scene right now. There will always be international tournaments with tons of top koreans stomping foreigners, but many wanted WCS to be the starcraft olympics. National champions being sent to the world final etc. Would you not enjoy that? Some regional competission leading up to a world final on top of all the international stuff? Not really. I'd probably watch the finals just for the Koreans though. I am one of those rarities that likes Korean players more for both personality and skill level. (emphasis mine) -> That's the whole point. I also don't really care where someone is from if they can play great games, but there are a lot of people who chose their favorite players based on other criteria, and that's actually perfectly fine and happens in all sports. Especially if you're cheering for your hometown/homecountry representative, it's really completely understandable and desirable. And the point that you are missing is that this is killing that. So you might get some great games in the first season (in the offline event, doubt the online part will be too hot after a few weeks of initial interest), but how long will that continue if viewership and general interest in the game declines. Just look at the LoL and DotA2 scenes... The situation in terms of skill is actually really similar to SC2. North american teams are behind EU teams who are behind Asian teams, with a handful of Stephano-like exceptions. But these scenes are completely separated except for THE big tournament where all roads lead to. The NA LCS is getting great numbers even though those teams are actually pretty weak right now. But hey, people care about them, they know these players from their stream etc. Anyway, it remains to be seen how this will turn out. I might actually watch the NA one now whereas without the Koreans I probably wouldn't have. But that's me and you and people like that. What about the "average Joe" browsing twitch and eating Hot Pockets? I still don't get how this kills the scene though... The only change is no more WCS and more money being funneled into the scene. You could argue that it doesn't advance the NA/EU scene as much as it could have, but then I would again disagree. In the region locked scenario, NA/EU would just stagnate and remain eternally inferior. Foreigners would have no incentive to reach the level to where they could beat Koreans. Was the old WCS really all that successful? I never bothered watching any of it so I don't know. Because WCS was an attempt to grow other region scene outside of korea, and this pretty much does the oppossite. Korean players won't be moving, but just playing online while mantaining their practice on their team houses and friends on korea, giving players who are not really code S (or bottom code S) the chance to just play elsewhere while staying on the same place. I don't think people would see so much troublewith koreans moving, if they were really moving. Specially if the different regions started to have some kind of hubs centralized for the teams to grow around. Did WCS succeed in growing the foreign scene?
Personally, it was a big reason I played SC 2. I had never played SC 2 until well after WCS. After seeing that 64 "noobs" are being given a free plane ticket and a chance at "real money" I had to try playing. I mean, it was 100 times greater than WCG ever was. If they had this WCS format last year, I prob would have never picked up WoL. WoL was a shitty game to begin with.
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I am shocked. The NA and EU scenes are going to get demolished.
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In 3 seasons it gonna be all korean. Pretty sad how this turned out.
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United Kingdom12058 Posts
On April 10 2013 19:30 cablesc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 19:27 Qikz wrote:On April 10 2013 18:56 Broodwurst wrote:On April 10 2013 18:54 Qikz wrote:
The only thing is (TotalBiscuit if you read this)
Why are you sending the Axiom guys to the US and not Europe? The team has no connection to the EU, why would they? TotalBiscuit is English... Him and his wife AFAIK are both European. :p Pretty sure Genna Bain is American. And TB emigrated to the US, no?
Well you learn something new every day.
So he's one of those traitor types. 
(I'm kidding btw).
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So the people who stay in korea, are the only ones who are going to be able to win the world series since they vs the best people.
Everyone who goes to NA or Europe is going to vs lower competition and not be as sharp
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Except for Nestea, all Koreans on NA have come from more less international teams. Not really the expected Code B flood so far, but it could still be ahead.
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Europe will be very, very exciting to watch, although I still find it strange to have people there with no connection at all to the scene they choose to be playing in.
NA is fucked for local players and will become the international brother of GSL for Koreans on foreign teams.
KR is just going to stay the same with some good and famous players gone but that'll be easily replaced by the abundance of incredible talent in Code B/Code A.
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On April 10 2013 19:28 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 19:24 Maesy wrote:
"We're announcing this huge tournament that will be split into regions to encourage more participation from upcoming players in places other than Korea, but here's the kick. Professional Korean players are still going to come to each region to play and take all of the money anyways because we're not going to implement any kind of restrictions. Enjoy."
Sincerely, The tournament that's making GSL less prestigious and pulling over champions to play, causing them to not reappear in the GSL until 2014, and given they're successful, they may not even reappear in 2014. Citation that shows that the bold part is blizzard's goal? I thought it was to get more Korean to move to NA / EUR to improve the practice environment overseas.
But that isn't happening either is it? The MVP/Azubu/Axiom players will still have to stay in KR for GSTL, and the EGTL players will have to stay in KR for ProLeague. They'll just play a couple of matches cross-server and then fly over a couple of weekends for the last 4 rounds.
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On April 10 2013 19:30 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 19:28 Bagi wrote:
One thing I don't really understand is Mvp to Europe. MC, Forgg and MMA make sense because they all play for European teams, makes travelling and other logistics much easier. Tails and Finale just wanna try their luck I guess. But why Mvp?
The lag will be quite something though, I wonder if maybe SK will set something up and MC and Mvp can both move to EU and live there during WCS.
They should make a reality show. Mvp and MC living together in Europe, throwing piles of money at each other.
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On April 10 2013 19:24 Serimek wrote:Quite funny to consider this : WCS Europe Mvp : 4 GSL  MC : 2 GSL MMA : 1 GSL + 1 GSL Blizzard cup Total : 7 GSL + 1 GSL Blizzard cup WCS Korea Life : 1 GSL + 1 GSL Blizzard cup DRG : 1 GSL Sniper : 1 GSL RorO : 1GSL Total : 4 GSL + 1 GSL Blizzard cup WCS AmericaNesTea : 3 GSL Polt : 1 GSL Total : 4 GSL OtherFruitDealer (retired) : 1 GSL jjakji (lost) : 1 GSL Seed (code B) : 1 GSL Conclusion : Europe is the most stacked region with GSL winners, and NA and Korea are very close from each other :p
MC, Nestea and Mvp realistically were never going to win another GSL. Why do you think they switched?
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LOL you people still dont realize mvp.
Barely makes it out of group stage---> Ro.8 --->sick mindgames/match planning. makes it to the finals ---> trophy!
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On April 10 2013 19:32 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 19:29 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 19:27 Godwrath wrote:On April 10 2013 19:18 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 19:10 budar wrote:On April 10 2013 18:52 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 18:47 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2013 18:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 18:37 playa wrote:On April 10 2013 18:34 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Can someone please explain how this ruins anything?
Keep in mind that a GSL style NA/EU tournament with similar prize money didn't exist before this. Keep in mind that every country had a WCS last season and Koreans were only playing in the Korean WCS. Thus, non Koreans could actually win something... So now they actually have to play better players to win something... Oh no! I'm sorry but I'm having a real hard time sympathizing with all this entitlement coming out of the foreign scene right now. There will always be international tournaments with tons of top koreans stomping foreigners, but many wanted WCS to be the starcraft olympics. National champions being sent to the world final etc. Would you not enjoy that? Some regional competission leading up to a world final on top of all the international stuff? Not really. I'd probably watch the finals just for the Koreans though. I am one of those rarities that likes Korean players more for both personality and skill level. (emphasis mine) -> That's the whole point. I also don't really care where someone is from if they can play great games, but there are a lot of people who chose their favorite players based on other criteria, and that's actually perfectly fine and happens in all sports. Especially if you're cheering for your hometown/homecountry representative, it's really completely understandable and desirable. And the point that you are missing is that this is killing that. So you might get some great games in the first season (in the offline event, doubt the online part will be too hot after a few weeks of initial interest), but how long will that continue if viewership and general interest in the game declines. Just look at the LoL and DotA2 scenes... The situation in terms of skill is actually really similar to SC2. North american teams are behind EU teams who are behind Asian teams, with a handful of Stephano-like exceptions. But these scenes are completely separated except for THE big tournament where all roads lead to. The NA LCS is getting great numbers even though those teams are actually pretty weak right now. But hey, people care about them, they know these players from their stream etc. Anyway, it remains to be seen how this will turn out. I might actually watch the NA one now whereas without the Koreans I probably wouldn't have. But that's me and you and people like that. What about the "average Joe" browsing twitch and eating Hot Pockets? I still don't get how this kills the scene though... The only change is no more WCS and more money being funneled into the scene. You could argue that it doesn't advance the NA/EU scene as much as it could have, but then I would again disagree. In the region locked scenario, NA/EU would just stagnate and remain eternally inferior. Foreigners would have no incentive to reach the level to where they could beat Koreans. Was the old WCS really all that successful? I never bothered watching any of it so I don't know. Because WCS was an attempt to grow other region scene outside of korea, and this pretty much does the oppossite. Korean players won't be moving, but just playing online while mantaining their practice on their team houses and friends on korea, giving players who are not really code S (or bottom code S) the chance to just play elsewhere while staying on the same place. I don't think people would see so much troublewith koreans moving, if they were really moving. Specially if the different regions started to have some kind of hubs centralized for the teams to grow around. Did WCS succeed in growing the foreign scene? Personally, it was a big reason I played SC 2. I had never played SC 2 until well after WCS. After seeing that 64 "noobs" are being given a free plane ticket and a chance at "real money" I had to try playing. I mean, it was 100 times greater than WCG ever was. If they had this WCS format last year, I prob would have never picked up WoL. WoL was a shitty game to begin with.
Now for the big question:
Being that you don't like the game, consider the NA players to be noobs anyway, and just want free money... are you influential to the growth of the scene? Exactly how good are you? Like are you a pro I haven't heard of or something?
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Are the koreans actually moving to US and EU or they just training in korea than just play the tournaments in EU and US when they need to??
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On April 10 2013 19:29 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 19:27 Godwrath wrote:On April 10 2013 19:18 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 19:10 budar wrote:On April 10 2013 18:52 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 18:47 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2013 18:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 18:37 playa wrote:On April 10 2013 18:34 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Can someone please explain how this ruins anything?
Keep in mind that a GSL style NA/EU tournament with similar prize money didn't exist before this. Keep in mind that every country had a WCS last season and Koreans were only playing in the Korean WCS. Thus, non Koreans could actually win something... So now they actually have to play better players to win something... Oh no! I'm sorry but I'm having a real hard time sympathizing with all this entitlement coming out of the foreign scene right now. There will always be international tournaments with tons of top koreans stomping foreigners, but many wanted WCS to be the starcraft olympics. National champions being sent to the world final etc. Would you not enjoy that? Some regional competission leading up to a world final on top of all the international stuff? Not really. I'd probably watch the finals just for the Koreans though. I am one of those rarities that likes Korean players more for both personality and skill level. (emphasis mine) -> That's the whole point. I also don't really care where someone is from if they can play great games, but there are a lot of people who chose their favorite players based on other criteria, and that's actually perfectly fine and happens in all sports. Especially if you're cheering for your hometown/homecountry representative, it's really completely understandable and desirable. And the point that you are missing is that this is killing that. So you might get some great games in the first season (in the offline event, doubt the online part will be too hot after a few weeks of initial interest), but how long will that continue if viewership and general interest in the game declines. Just look at the LoL and DotA2 scenes... The situation in terms of skill is actually really similar to SC2. North american teams are behind EU teams who are behind Asian teams, with a handful of Stephano-like exceptions. But these scenes are completely separated except for THE big tournament where all roads lead to. The NA LCS is getting great numbers even though those teams are actually pretty weak right now. But hey, people care about them, they know these players from their stream etc. Anyway, it remains to be seen how this will turn out. I might actually watch the NA one now whereas without the Koreans I probably wouldn't have. But that's me and you and people like that. What about the "average Joe" browsing twitch and eating Hot Pockets? I still don't get how this kills the scene though... The only change is no more WCS and more money being funneled into the scene. You could argue that it doesn't advance the NA/EU scene as much as it could have, but then I would again disagree. In the region locked scenario, NA/EU would just stagnate and remain eternally inferior. Foreigners would have no incentive to reach the level to where they could beat Koreans. Was the old WCS really all that successful? I never bothered watching any of it so I don't know. Because WCS was an attempt to grow other region scene outside of korea, and this pretty much does the oppossite. Korean players won't be moving, but just playing online while mantaining their practice on their team houses and friends on korea, giving players who are not really code S (or bottom code S) the chance to just play elsewhere while staying on the same place. I don't think people would see so much troublewith koreans moving, if they were really moving. Specially if the different regions started to have some kind of hubs centralized for the teams to grow around. Did WCS succeed in growing the foreign scene?
Are you just trolling ? Of course it did. Go watch WCS EU last year if you don't think it gave a huge exposure to many players, and make them willing and motivated to practice. Hell, ask the south-american pro community how much that helped. And that doesn't even have anything to do with THEIR CURRENT intentions, that was pretty much get koreans to move physically to other regions to improve the training enviroments on other regions. This doesn't accomplish that.
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On April 10 2013 19:30 cablesc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 19:27 Qikz wrote:On April 10 2013 18:56 Broodwurst wrote:On April 10 2013 18:54 Qikz wrote:
The only thing is (TotalBiscuit if you read this)
Why are you sending the Axiom guys to the US and not Europe? The team has no connection to the EU, why would they? TotalBiscuit is English... Him and his wife AFAIK are both European. :p Pretty sure Genna Bain is American. And TB emigrated to the US, no?
Still if he could choose he would live in Europe of course, everyone would! TB only lives in America because of his Work and his Family.
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EPT
