EPTNot sure I like this format yet.
MC goes off on WCS & Polt's Machiavellian plan - Page 25
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ohmkerg
United States102 Posts
Not sure I like this format yet. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 06 2013 03:30 BisuDagger wrote: Plansix this thread is feeding you posts ):< Yeah, that may be true, but my irritation is that high right now. The community has the collective memory of a gold fish and forgets stuff like the Kespa only bracket for the last MLG of 2012. They whine about seeds in to the GSL that they do to boost viewer numbers, but MGL can roll out the red carpet for Kespa players right into the open bracket to do the same thing. And all of this would be fine because the Koreans are that good, but then people demand that NA players are lazy, should practice harder and WCS is unfair because Koreans should get more slots. | ||
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budar
175 Posts
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kc2siq
United States319 Posts
On April 06 2013 03:39 Plansix wrote: Yeah, that may be true, but my irritation is that high right now. The community has the collective memory of a gold fish and forgets stuff like the Kespa only bracket for the last MLG of 2012. They whine about seeds in to the GSL that they do to boost viewer numbers, but MGL can roll out the red carpet for Kespa players right into the open bracket to do the same thing. And all of this would be fine because the Koreans are that good, but then people demand that NA players are lazy, should practice harder and WCS is unfair because Koreans should get more slots. The fuck? The "community" is not the same person. The reason hypocrisy exists in your mind is because there are always two sides to an argument. If you assume the people arguing are the same (they're not) then you'll definitely see this. There probably are people who are as you describe, but you need to target them specifically rather than hate on the "community." | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 06 2013 03:47 kc2siq wrote: The fuck? The "community" is not the same person. The reason hypocrisy exists in your mind is because there are always two sides to an argument. If you assume the people arguing are the same (they're not) then you'll definitely see this. There probably are people who are as you describe, but you need to target them specifically rather than hate on the "community." Of course the community isn't one person. When I am talking about people with selective or short memories, I am clearly referencing the members who say silly things and forget context or history. It would take a really long time to name all of those people one at a time. | ||
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Scotch111
3 Posts
On April 06 2013 03:39 Plansix wrote: Yeah, that may be true, but my irritation is that high right now. The community has the collective memory of a gold fish and forgets stuff like the Kespa only bracket for the last MLG of 2012. They whine about seeds in to the GSL that they do to boost viewer numbers, but MGL can roll out the red carpet for Kespa players right into the open bracket to do the same thing. And all of this would be fine because the Koreans are that good, but then people demand that NA players are lazy, should practice harder and WCS is unfair because Koreans should get more slots. Phoney competition is not entertaining. I'll use your stretegy here. "We" don't want to watch Americans or Europeans compete. They suck. And seeding them in to tourneys they can't win is bs. Paying for real talent to play in a tournament can only add value to it. Seeding lesser talent diminishes value. | ||
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megid
Brazil142 Posts
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
On April 05 2013 05:10 playa wrote: I think Mike Morhaime better be working 14 hours a day, every day, for at least a year, before he tries uttering that BS again, with a straight face, about "non Koreans need to try harder." Imagine working 10 hours a day and being shitted on because you're not as good as a Korean working 14 hours plus. That's a great fucking message to send. Non Koreans, if you want any money, spend 24/7 playing our game. Real inspirational and healthy. If non Koreans spent as much time practicing as they spent coming up with this format, we would all be plat at best. really though? i don't know how much foreigners practice, but i doubt most practice 10 hours a day. more importantly though, Mike Morhaime is the CEO of a big, successful company and has been for a fairly long time. i think he knows what working hard means, plus that's a real job. progamers get to live off of playing a game most of them enjoy playing in the first place and travel the world, and then they bitch about it. i'm all for something that improves the scene everywhere in the world (including Korea), but this is getting a bit ridiculous. | ||
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theMagus
578 Posts
On April 06 2013 03:08 Scotch111 wrote: You can not have a fair tournament based on region or race. Why would I want to watch Americans or Europeans play if I knew that they replaced Koreans who would've been there , based on skill, if allowed to be there. I'd rather see 100% Koreans in all tournaments if they could win all of the qualifiers rather than this affermitive action be. This phoney competition only cheapens the game as a sport. People se through the manipulations of the competitive scene. Teenagers might like seeing homegrown competitors, but I don't watch anything but GSL presisely because everything else is minor league. Now its all phoney. A big * in an ideal world, i would agree with you 100%. unfortunately, it's not an ideal world. we have to throw the underdogs a bone to keep them and their fan base from just completely disappearing. it's sad, really. one thing is for sure though: i would never see wcs as the most prestigious tournament, even if it potentially has the biggest prize pool. i see it more as a compromise for the greater good of sc2. | ||
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moochu
Australia374 Posts
On April 06 2013 07:50 theMagus wrote: in an ideal world, i would agree with you 100%. unfortunately, it's not an ideal world. we have to throw the underdogs a bone to keep them and their fan base from just completely disappearing. it's sad, really. one thing is for sure though: i would never see wcs as the most prestigious tournament, even if it potentially has the biggest prize pool. i see it more as a compromise for the greater good of sc2. IMO protectionist policies are counter productive and breed complacency. Why would NA/EU players need to try any harder if their current skill level is good enough to win them tournaments in their region and keep their progaming career going? People are created equal so Koreans dominating everything isn't a matter of race, it's the training culture and a case of steel sharpens steel. | ||
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theMagus
578 Posts
On April 06 2013 08:12 moochu wrote: IMO protectionist policies are counter productive and breed complacency. Why would NA/EU players need to try any harder if their current skill level is good enough to win them tournaments in their region and keep their progaming career going? People are created equal so Koreans dominating everything isn't a matter of race, it's the training culture and a case of steel sharpens steel. i can't say i disagree with you honestly as i believe and want the same thing, and i feel bad for even arguing this point. however, a lot of time and opportunities have already been given to foreigners to step up and they haven't. i don't think they ever will. i just fear for the future of the sc2 scene once the novelty of hots has worn out. | ||
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kc2siq
United States319 Posts
On April 06 2013 03:55 Plansix wrote: Of course the community isn't one person. When I am talking about people with selective or short memories, I am clearly referencing the members who say silly things and forget context or history. It would take a really long time to name all of those people one at a time. Fair enough. I'm not so sure how long it would actually be if you listed them because I've seen a lot of people say that and they only come up with a few names, but then again this isn't really something I'm passionate about to argue so I'll bow out. | ||
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Gentso
United States2218 Posts
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Inzan1ty
1163 Posts
Wish TSL would re-unite TT Nani definetly mad probs, he can become the best foreigner at HotS with that kind of attitute ! | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
On April 06 2013 04:56 Schelim wrote: really though? i don't know how much foreigners practice, but i doubt most practice 10 hours a day. more importantly though, Mike Morhaime is the CEO of a big, successful company and has been for a fairly long time. i think he knows what working hard means, plus that's a real job. progamers get to live off of playing a game most of them enjoy playing in the first place and travel the world, and then they bitch about it. i'm all for something that improves the scene everywhere in the world (including Korea), but this is getting a bit ridiculous. The point is it doesn't matter. Even if you're putting in 10 hours a day, which is a lot, you're still going to behind the Koreans. Maybe in Korea gaming is more accepted and you can afford to devote all of your waking hours to it, but for most people... they either have school that makes it impossible to play 14 hours a day or they have to work on the side to pay bills. Morhaime is successful at making money. If you run a business, guess what your number 1 goal is? The more, the better. Everyone has their own agendas. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that these decisions make sense from a business standpoint (in that to get everyone involved to agree this had to happen) and that's it. If I invented the football, I hope I could take credit for the NFL and have people assume I know anything about sports. Last year in NA WCS I believe 64 people qualified and they all got paid for tickets/travel to the finals. 64 people. That's a very generous number. Great for foreign gaming and probably bad for their pocket book (not that they lose sleep over that... but whose goal is it to lose money?). This year, most likely, Koreans will be taking all of the spots except a few. Increasing a prize pool, having online qualifiers, yet saying absolutely nothing about being capable of preventing cheating. This isn't something serious atm. It's just laying the groundwork for the future. It's a foundation. It's a horrible system benefiting no scenes. That said, how many sports started out great? Unfortunately, Blizzard didn't create professional SC. They're very late getting into this, so it's a bit like going back in time but with higher prize pools. My main gripe is, don't BS me. Don't make something worse for the players and then act like you did something for them. It's a slap in the face. When you're trying to making something that could possibly be a career for people, there is no way you can have so many unpredictable factors. Things will be changed in the future. Why? Things could obviously be better. If you're admiring this, it would be like admiring the first strategy you saw in WoL beta. It's a lack of imagination or common sense. I think they could learn something by looking at KHL (a hockey league) in regards to dealing with foreigners. 7 Countries have teams in the KHL. Teams are allowed to have a maximum of 5 foreigners (players from not one of these countries), and the team must have at least 5 players from the country the team is located in. A few months ago, the number 1 hockey league in the world, the NHL, had a lockout. The best players were now free to go elsewhere. Did the KHL say "omg the best players in the world, our fans won't tolerate anything but the best? Let's take away jobs from the inferior players we have! Finally people will watch our product!" No, they only allowed the best of the best to enter their league. They increased the attention on the league and profitability of the league, but they did not jeopardize the jobs of everyone from those regions. There's a thin line between increasing profit and jeopardizing long-term stability and growth. There's 0 safeguards currently. If the Koreans were to choose in some kind of game theory manner, they would end up taking every spot in every region. Now, if Morhaime is going to create this possibility and tell me he's doing anyone a favor besides him, his buddies and maybe some Koreans, then he has no more credibility or he's been too busy with WoW. | ||
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Zax19
Czech Republic1136 Posts
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
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Dumboprime
985 Posts
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zefreak
United States2731 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17267 Posts
On April 05 2013 23:30 Plansix wrote: Also, from last nights SotG, there are reports that GSL will have the largest prize pool(same amount of WCS money from Blizzard, but more from GOM), which makes its the more worthy tournament it should be. I think we will know more in the next few weeks. from Morhaime's interview with PCGamer.com " But each of the leagues will distribute the same number of points and the same monetary prize pool." http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/04/04/blizzards-starcraft-2-wcs-2013-explained-by-company-ceo-mike-morhaime/ Based on the # of answered questions brought up by the SotG guys, the refunds now being offered by GomTV... this is looking like a giant clusterfuck. Notice, Blizzard didn't guarantee that over all prize money would be higher for 2013.... only that WCS would have a prize pool of 1.6 million which is less than half of the 2012 prize pool. Riot pays the salaries for 24 teams... Blizzard is big on words and short on cash. another great non-answer by Morhaime.. PCG: Are the prize pools for MLG, GSL, and other participating WCS leagues now provided by Blizzard? Morhaime: We’re not getting into details on where the money’s coming from. | ||
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