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On March 28 2013 12:15 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 10:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 28 2013 10:37 ChoDing wrote:
pussy...
im disappointed...
he was the only non korean to at least play evenly against koreans in GSL... ??? There are several other foreigners who performed (significantly) better in the GSL than Stephano. Naniwa, HuK, Jinro, IdrA... Out of the ones you named only Naniwa and Idra really did better. Sure, jinro had back to back Ro4 when the baddies were able to stay in Code S, but overall skill vs competitor Stephano did much better than Jinro. And huk hasn't done anything impressive.
I love how people so easily dismiss Jinro's back to back semi final appearances because players and the general level of play wasn't as good then as it is now.
Should basically tell anyone that won anything in WoL that they did nothing of consequence anymore. So sorry MVP, Nestea, MC, FruitDealer, MMA, DRG, etc but you all didn't actually achieve anything because the game got updated.
Man I can't wait to tell Boxer, July and Nada how bad they were at BW.
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On March 28 2013 11:01 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 11:00 theMagus wrote:please, gomtv, no more charity seeds. let any foreigner get into code s by qualifying for it. we won't hold it against you  He did qualify for it this time if you didn't know... So did Huk last time. Stephano was also just 1 game away from RO16. He was fully worthy of the initial seed.
please, he was given a seed into code s then botched it lol. that's why he was able to do the up/downs to begin with. he didn't even play to qualify for code a then work his way up like even the kespa players did :/
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On March 28 2013 13:18 theMagus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 11:01 Emzeeshady wrote:On March 28 2013 11:00 theMagus wrote:please, gomtv, no more charity seeds. let any foreigner get into code s by qualifying for it. we won't hold it against you He did qualify for it this time if you didn't know... So did Huk last time. Stephano was also just 1 game away from RO16. He was fully worthy of the initial seed. please, he was given a seed into code s then botched it lol. that's why he was able to do the up/downs to begin with. he didn't even play to qualify for code a then work his way up like even the kespa players did :/
not all the kespa players.
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On March 28 2013 13:21 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 13:18 theMagus wrote:On March 28 2013 11:01 Emzeeshady wrote:On March 28 2013 11:00 theMagus wrote:please, gomtv, no more charity seeds. let any foreigner get into code s by qualifying for it. we won't hold it against you He did qualify for it this time if you didn't know... So did Huk last time. Stephano was also just 1 game away from RO16. He was fully worthy of the initial seed. please, he was given a seed into code s then botched it lol. that's why he was able to do the up/downs to begin with. he didn't even play to qualify for code a then work his way up like even the kespa players did :/ not all the kespa players.
only rain and jaedong were seeded into code s.
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United States97277 Posts
On March 28 2013 13:27 theMagus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 13:21 jmbthirteen wrote:On March 28 2013 13:18 theMagus wrote:On March 28 2013 11:01 Emzeeshady wrote:On March 28 2013 11:00 theMagus wrote:please, gomtv, no more charity seeds. let any foreigner get into code s by qualifying for it. we won't hold it against you He did qualify for it this time if you didn't know... So did Huk last time. Stephano was also just 1 game away from RO16. He was fully worthy of the initial seed. please, he was given a seed into code s then botched it lol. that's why he was able to do the up/downs to begin with. he didn't even play to qualify for code a then work his way up like even the kespa players did :/ not all the kespa players. only rain and jaedong were seeded into code s.
Baby and Soulkey
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On March 28 2013 13:32 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 13:27 theMagus wrote:On March 28 2013 13:21 jmbthirteen wrote:On March 28 2013 13:18 theMagus wrote:On March 28 2013 11:01 Emzeeshady wrote:On March 28 2013 11:00 theMagus wrote:please, gomtv, no more charity seeds. let any foreigner get into code s by qualifying for it. we won't hold it against you He did qualify for it this time if you didn't know... So did Huk last time. Stephano was also just 1 game away from RO16. He was fully worthy of the initial seed. please, he was given a seed into code s then botched it lol. that's why he was able to do the up/downs to begin with. he didn't even play to qualify for code a then work his way up like even the kespa players did :/ not all the kespa players. only rain and jaedong were seeded into code s. Baby and Soulkey
right, my bad. doesn't change the fact that stephano was seeded into code s, contrary to what that guy was saying lol.
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please, gomtv, no more seeds for anyone.
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yea i agree stop giving seeds like candy, it's getting kinda stupid
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On March 28 2013 12:15 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 10:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 28 2013 10:37 ChoDing wrote:
pussy...
im disappointed...
he was the only non korean to at least play evenly against koreans in GSL... ??? There are several other foreigners who performed (significantly) better in the GSL than Stephano. Naniwa, HuK, Jinro, IdrA... Out of the ones you named only Naniwa and Idra really did better. Sure, jinro had back to back Ro4 when the baddies were able to stay in Code S, but overall skill vs competitor Stephano did much better than Jinro. And huk hasn't done anything impressive.
...No. IdrA and Jinro were in the GSL at around the same time, and the fact that Jinro made it so far (even earlier on in the GSL's lifespan) is a huge accomplishment. And as far as HuK goes, he's been in the GSL for quite a while and made it relatively deep too.
While Stephano's achievements outside of the GSL are obviously fantastic and put him as the #1 foreigner, Stephano baaarely kept his Code S spot; he failed at performing even well, let alone achieving impressive results, compared to the other four.
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Northern Ireland27471 Posts
No more seeds GOM. Fucking hell, this is so annoying. I really didn't mind the way they are given out, but forfeit after forefeit after forfeit. Yeah Stephano can do as he wishes, I'm not 'hater' but I do find it disappointing. I really did feel he had the talent to prosper at the top table, but he does have a life too and I respect him doing what is best for him. We'll never really know now.
IF you are going to give them, give them to foreigners who have proven that they can stay in Korea and grind away. SaSe in the past did that, Naniwa too.
If not, keep seeds for players like an MVP, or keep some aside for players undergoing wrist surgery and struggling to recapture former glories.
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yeah but, now that Stephano has forfeited his spot someone needs to fill it. We can't start a season with 31 players!
Mvp for seed pls
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Northern Ireland27471 Posts
If there is a seed and MVP doesn't get one in lieu of Scarlett I am going to blow a gasket
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On March 28 2013 14:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
If there is a seed and MVP doesn't get one in lieu of Scarlett I am going to blow a gasket
Seeing as Scarlett said she doesn't want a seed I'd be stunned if she got one
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i really hope this is because of not being suited to the coaching or the practice and not because of money :/
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On March 28 2013 13:18 theMagus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 11:01 Emzeeshady wrote:On March 28 2013 11:00 theMagus wrote:please, gomtv, no more charity seeds. let any foreigner get into code s by qualifying for it. we won't hold it against you He did qualify for it this time if you didn't know... So did Huk last time. Stephano was also just 1 game away from RO16. He was fully worthy of the initial seed. please, he was given a seed into code s then botched it lol. that's why he was able to do the up/downs to begin with. he didn't even play to qualify for code a then work his way up like even the kespa players did :/
Huk has performed more consistently and for longer then any other foreigner in the GSL.
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Scarlett declined her seed, which means she has more dignity than 99% of pros. Stephano's performance was okay, he DID get through U&D's, but I doubt he would have made it all the way through Code A from the bottom =/
It was probably the best course of action for financial gain, though, and that WAS his objective, so heh.
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On March 28 2013 14:05 Wombat_NI wrote:
No more seeds GOM. Fucking hell, this is so annoying. I really didn't mind the way they are given out, but forfeit after forefeit after forfeit. Yeah Stephano can do as he wishes, I'm not 'hater' but I do find it disappointing. I really did feel he had the talent to prosper at the top table, but he does have a life too and I respect him doing what is best for him. We'll never really know now.
IF you are going to give them, give them to foreigners who have proven that they can stay in Korea and grind away. SaSe in the past did that, Naniwa too.
If not, keep seeds for players like an MVP, or keep some aside for players undergoing wrist surgery and struggling to recapture former glories.
There are generally three problems with Korean tournaments for foreign players:
1) The barrier for entry is too expensive/high
Simply qualifying for the GSL is an arduous task that takes even very skilled Korean pros multiple attempts. The Code A qualifiers are brutal - and that doesn't even really get you into the dance, because then you've got to play in the Code A tournament. The Code A tournament isn't financially lucrative, requires intense practice, occupies time you could be spending outside of Korea at other tournaments, and is incredibly difficult.
2) The Skill Gap is Too Steep
Look at the top ELO in the TLPD international: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players#tblt-6443-1-4-DESC
There are a handful of foreigners, 1 of whom is in the top 20, and these are all tournaments in which Koreans have major travel and preparation disadvantages compared to the Korean style of individual leagues. If you're looking for Stephano, he's on page 2. Hell, MC is on page 2 (well, near the top of it). The skill ceiling at this point is pretty damn high.
3) The Lifestyle is too different
Foreign players are forced into a country where a relatively small percentage of the population speaks their language, and the food and cultural norms are all completely different. This alienates a lot of otherwise potentially good candidates to make the trip to Korea and makes good players uncomfortable to stay there.
But, GOM has a problem: Foreign viewers are a big part of the audience, and they want them to watch the GSL. They tune in to watch foreign players.
Seeding people into the tournament certainly doesn't help with (3). There's an argument to be made that it might help with (2), because GOM can presumably select the best available and willing foreign player to compete, but for the most part, the skill gap exists and is unlikely to be closed any time soon.
But GOM can't really solve either (2) or (3) as problems. They can't change Korean culture or make people enjoy it. They can't make foreign players better. So, they do what they can - eliminate the entry barrier, in the hope that it will attract popular foreign players, which will in turn attract foreign viewers.
GOM gives seeds to popular foreigners because popular foreigners mean eyeballs.
I will say that Stephano seemed like a perfect choice for them - immensely popular player with a big fanbase who has faced some amount of Korean competition in foreign tournaments but has never participated in this kind of league setting. So, it's sad that it didn't work out.
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On March 28 2013 14:35 Jnai wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 14:05 Wombat_NI wrote:
No more seeds GOM. Fucking hell, this is so annoying. I really didn't mind the way they are given out, but forfeit after forefeit after forfeit. Yeah Stephano can do as he wishes, I'm not 'hater' but I do find it disappointing. I really did feel he had the talent to prosper at the top table, but he does have a life too and I respect him doing what is best for him. We'll never really know now.
IF you are going to give them, give them to foreigners who have proven that they can stay in Korea and grind away. SaSe in the past did that, Naniwa too.
If not, keep seeds for players like an MVP, or keep some aside for players undergoing wrist surgery and struggling to recapture former glories. There are generally three problems with Korean tournaments for foreign players: 1) The barrier for entry is too expensive/highSimply qualifying for the GSL is an arduous task that takes even very skilled Korean pros multiple attempts. The Code A qualifiers are brutal - and that doesn't even really get you into the dance, because then you've got to play in the Code A tournament. The Code A tournament isn't financially lucrative, requires intense practice, occupies time you could be spending outside of Korea at other tournaments, and is incredibly difficult. 2) The Skill Gap is Too SteepLook at the top ELO in the TLPD international: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players#tblt-6443-1-4-DESCThere are a handful of foreigners, 1 of whom is in the top 20, and these are all tournaments in which Koreans have major travel and preparation disadvantages compared to the Korean style of individual leagues. If you're looking for Stephano, he's on page 2. Hell, MC is on page 2 (well, near the top of it). The skill ceiling at this point is pretty damn high. 3) The Lifestyle is too differentForeign players are forced into a country where a relatively small percentage of the population speaks their language, and the food and cultural norms are all completely different. This alienates a lot of otherwise potentially good candidates to make the trip to Korea and makes good players uncomfortable to stay there. But, GOM has a problem: Foreign viewers are a big part of the audience, and they want them to watch the GSL. They tune in to watch foreign players. Seeding people into the tournament certainly doesn't help with (3). There's an argument to be made that it might help with (2), because GOM can presumably select the best available and willing foreign player to compete, but for the most part, the skill gap exists and is unlikely to be closed any time soon. But GOM can't really solve either (2) or (3) as problems. They can't change Korean culture or make people enjoy it. They can't make foreign players better. So, they do what they can - eliminate the entry barrier, in the hope that it will attract popular foreign players, which will in turn attract foreign viewers. GOM gives seeds to popular foreigners because popular foreigners mean eyeballs. I will say that Stephano seemed like a perfect choice for them - immensely popular player with a big fanbase who has faced some amount of Korean competition in foreign tournaments but has never participated in this kind of league setting. So, it's sad that it didn't work out.
Only point 3 should really matter. If the barriers for entry weren't so high it wouldn't be the most prestigious league in the world. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that's the way it should be. Number two is irrelevant as "skill ceiling" just means players need to practice more...
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Northern Ireland27471 Posts
All irrelevant, bar 3 maybe.
Look, I don't MIND the idea of seeding being given out, it doesn't bother me that much. It's that expectation of going in, I don't know, winning Code S and leaving, and when that doesn't happen they just forfeit. It's every time, it's a joke, The one foreigner who doesn't do this is Naniwa, and Huk before him I guess.
Even and Up/Down seed is good for a foreigner, Huk and Mana have made it through in recent times.
I think this will only be 'solved' once a sort of worldwide E-sports calendar is sorted, or even a kind of global Kespa set up to avoid tournament clashes, and give space for the the GSL to breathe.
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On March 28 2013 00:12 mechengineer123 wrote:
Good decision, gsl is too hard for most people.
he played himself in code S in up and downs ... so its not that its to hard its not giving out what he put in in form of time/Money that he gets otherwhere
On March 28 2013 15:48 Wombat_NI wrote:
All irrelevant, bar 3 maybe.
Look, I don't MIND the idea of seeding being given out, it doesn't bother me that much. It's that expectation of going in, I don't know, winning Code S and leaving, and when that doesn't happen they just forfeit. It's every time, it's a joke, The one foreigner who doesn't do this is Naniwa, and Huk before him I guess.
Even and Up/Down seed is good for a foreigner, Huk and Mana have made it through in recent times.
I think this will only be 'solved' once a sort of worldwide E-sports calendar is sorted, or even a kind of global Kespa set up to avoid tournament clashes, and give space for the the GSL to breathe.
you cant make a calender for a tournament that has daily games ... its not working because they block months
also not many foreigns forfeit their slots, idra stephano ... who else ? the rest lost and got out (grubby didnt forfeit they changed schelude and he had a later flight to korea, not his fault)
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EPT
