EPThaving the Zerg finish her is the safest and most effecient way to do it
the Overmind left Kerrigan on Char because he knew Zeratul and co were the only DTs nearby so if Kerrigan could keep them isolated then nothing on Aiur could hurt his swarm
[Story spoilers!!] Heart of the HOTS continued - Page 43
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
having the Zerg finish her is the safest and most effecient way to do it the Overmind left Kerrigan on Char because he knew Zeratul and co were the only DTs nearby so if Kerrigan could keep them isolated then nothing on Aiur could hurt his swarm | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4781 Posts
On March 20 2013 10:30 Forikorder wrote: because even if its shit its still essence and he can still hunt other animals on the planets they travel too I am pretty sure that is not how essence works, but I could be mistaken? I took it as the quantity being of less relevance compared to the quality - i.e. just like when doing the evolution missions: It was the properties of the being killed you could take on (but you might need more than a single sample to properly use it), hence qualities of the killed would matter the most. Killing 1905759841623498 Terrans would thus not give Dahaka any advantage seeing how Terrans use machines to solve tasks instead of evolution. Having the evolutions being simply quantity-driven would make it hard to explain why Kerrigan is the first in thousands of years that Zurvan tries to consume. | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
On March 20 2013 11:53 Ghostcom wrote: I am pretty sure that is not how essence works, but I could be mistaken? I took it as the quantity being of less relevance compared to the quality - i.e. just like when doing the evolution missions: It was the properties of the being killed you could take on (but you might need more than a single sample to properly use it), hence qualities of the killed would matter the most. Killing 1905759841623498 Terrans would thus not give Dahaka any advantage seeing how Terrans use machines to solve tasks instead of evolution. Having the evolutions being simply quantity-driven would make it hard to explain why Kerrigan is the first in thousands of years that Zurvan tries to consume. To add my 2 cents, Zerg seem to be hyper-reactive in their evolution. An individual can "evolve" given someone with an understanding of genetic engineering and the zerg virus provide the proper environment/infection. So I suspect essence is some way of quantifying genetic diversity. Being able to discern the necessary codes for a specific trait and then apply it to another creature (or oneself). If they do not need to express a certain essence, they could probably also suppress it or otherwise inactivate the code until environmental conditions favor it (as interpreted by the modifier person). That is why you search for traits in other creatures, and why you can switch between certain traits in the evolution pit. More fundamental changes are likely much harder and thus not cost efficient to constantly jump between, so they are "permanent" (as in the evo missions). | ||
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
On March 20 2013 11:19 Dfgj wrote: Furthermore, her personal power means nothing in a large-scale war, despite what SC2 tries to play up. Kerrigan was an amateur in terms of actual command, hence why she gets babysat by a Cerebrate (you!) for the bulk of her life and major battles. This is also true. Which also brings me to the question of why they made the psi-disruptor from being a weapon that affected zerg swarms across planets to... an AOE slowing device that affected a small area. The Psi-Disruptor was a huge threat as it'd disrupt the control over the swarm and here in SC2, its turned into some device that affects movement speed and later in HOTS campaign a field that kills zerg things.. how boring is that. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On March 20 2013 11:53 Ghostcom wrote: I am pretty sure that is not how essence works, but I could be mistaken? I took it as the quantity being of less relevance compared to the quality - i.e. just like when doing the evolution missions: It was the properties of the being killed you could take on (but you might need more than a single sample to properly use it), hence qualities of the killed would matter the most. Killing 1905759841623498 Terrans would thus not give Dahaka any advantage seeing how Terrans use machines to solve tasks instead of evolution. Having the evolutions being simply quantity-driven would make it hard to explain why Kerrigan is the first in thousands of years that Zurvan tries to consume. for the Swarm? damn straight but the primals are much less picky Zurvan had reached the point where there was nothing to eat but Zurvan has been alive for millenia hes probably eaten everything that has ever lived on that planet at least once so until something from outside the planet apears (Kerrigan) theres nothing for him to chew since Dahaka isnt that strong he still gets upgrades from eating Terrans and other indiginous creatures for Dehaka there could be more benefits in eating Terrans, Zerus is pretty primitive so the benefits could be largely cognitive then physical, plus he could be getting essence from Ghosts This is also true. Which also brings me to the question of why they made the psi-disruptor from being a weapon that affected zerg swarms across planets to... an AOE slowing device that affected a small area. The Psi-Disruptor was a huge threat as it'd disrupt the control over the swarm and here in SC2, its turned into some device that affects movement speed and later in HOTS campaign a field that kills zerg things.. how boring is that. 2 different structures the confederate structure disabled Zerg from communicating the one Egon created worked by spreading a special radiation that slowed down Zerg, Egon probably didnt even know that the Confederates ever made a psi disrupter | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On March 20 2013 10:57 Gamegene wrote: My favorite part of it is just that marine rocking back and forth not even caring. Leaves a pit in your stomach when you realize he knew that help was never going to come. I will be honest SC was a scary game. The cinematics were scary, and I remember avoiding the Zerg Campaign cuz it was to damn freaky. Then again I was in elementary when it came out. Everythings better when your little. | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On March 18 2013 15:25 Gatesleeper wrote: Can someone sort this one out for me? Plus, even if they are and always were servants of Amon and not merely worshippers of the Xel'Naga, that doesn't explain why "Narud repeatedly commissioned Raynor to steal Xel'Naga artifacts *from* the Tal'Darim in WoL". Oh yes! Someone has pointed this out before! I was hoping that I didn't need to bring up this silliness. You're my hero Zoomacroom!! BTW, Gatesleeper, less sarcasm please, lest you troll less perceptive philosophical allies. (But it is hilarious.) Also, help me understand one part of this story. In WoL, it appears to be Kerrigan taunting Zeratul about the hopelessness of the Protoss plight. Then in HotS, it's Zeratul guiding Kerrigan for what she should be doing to fight against Amon. What the hell did Kerrigan know, and is that knowledge disappeared because of magical Artifact? | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On March 20 2013 12:25 TanGeng wrote: Oh yes! Someone has pointed this out before! I was hoping that I didn't need to bring up this silliness. You're my hero Zoomacroom!! BTW, Gatesleeper, less sarcasm please, lest you troll less perceptive philosophical allies. (But it is hilarious.) Also, help me understand one part of this story. In WoL, it appears to be Kerrigan taunting Zeratul about the hopelessness of the Protoss plight. Then in HotS, it's Zeratul guiding Kerrigan for what she should be doing to fight against Amon. What the hell did Kerrigan know, and is that knowledge disappeared because of magical Artifact? Kerrigan got amnesia from the Artifact when you fight Narud he saids how Amon whispered to the Queen of Blades so thats what she was refrencing as for why NArud had raynor steal the Artifacts, most likely the Tal'Darim were too insane to be willing to surrender them and NArud was worried if he tried to take them the Tal'Darim would rebel against him thats the problem with controlling Fanatics, they'll follow Narud as long as he does what they think Amon wants him to do but if he goes against that theyd turn on him instantly also Kerrigan said she saw through Naruds Charades so if she realised he was working with the Tal'Darim it may have caused her to be more aggressive or catch onto Naruds real plan but instead she was distracted racing Raynor to the artifacts also Valerian could have found the Artifacts himself wiuthout Narud realising and he didnt want to jsut magically get the artifact from the Tal'Darim and make Valerain suspicious | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4781 Posts
On March 20 2013 12:16 Forikorder wrote: for the Swarm? damn straight but the primals are much less picky Zurvan had reached the point where there was nothing to eat but Zurvan has been alive for millenia hes probably eaten everything that has ever lived on that planet at least once so until something from outside the planet apears (Kerrigan) theres nothing for him to chew since Dahaka isnt that strong he still gets upgrades from eating Terrans and other indiginous creatures for Dehaka there could be more benefits in eating Terrans, Zerus is pretty primitive so the benefits could be largely cognitive then physical, plus he could be getting essence from Ghosts The way I understood the argument is that 1) The evolution someone wants to attain is already within them but they need essence to drive the evolution 2) The essence IS the very trait desired to be attained from the evolution and you collect it and splice it into your own genes the same way we manipulate bacteria to produce enzymes. The way I understand what you (and the other person) are writing is that you (and the other person) agree with me that the latter is the case - the essence collected is the trait desired. Why would he then express dissatisfaction with the Terrans and the quality of their essence and then do a 180 and all of a sudden claim to be very satisfied with the essence collected? | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
New lore "essence" is like power up genetic data, which is shockingly like "purity of form." Fucking lore. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On March 20 2013 12:42 Ghostcom wrote: The way I understood the argument is that 1) The evolution someone wants to attain is already within them but they need essence to drive the evolution 2) The essence IS the very trait desired to be attained from the evolution and you collect it and splice it into your own genes the same way we manipulate bacteria to produce enzymes. The way I understand what you (and the other person) are writing is that you (and the other person) agree with me that the latter is the case - the essence collected is the trait desired. Why would he then express dissatisfaction with the Terrans and the quality of their essence and then do a 180 and all of a sudden claim to be very satisfied with the essence collected? hes sattisfied with the amount and again he could be taking the essence of ghosts and indigenous animals that have much more valuable essence Old lore "essence" and Zerg's purity of essence is the concept of a hive mind with species radically specializing in ways that help the Hive society survive, excel, and ultimately conquer its surroundings. The "purity of essence" was the sharp contrast to the Protoss "purity of form", New lore "essence" is like power up genetic data, which is shockingly like "purity of form." Fucking lore. what purity of essence and form meant was never actually explained at all in the campaign the Zerg say essence when they mean DNA also even following your definention Essence is what makes the species radically specialized | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4781 Posts
On March 20 2013 12:48 TanGeng wrote: Old lore "essence" and Zerg's purity of essence is the concept of a hive mind with species radically specializing in ways that help the Hive society survive, excel, and ultimately conquer its surroundings. The "purity of essence" was the sharp contrast to the Protoss "purity of form", New lore "essence" is like power up genetic data, which is shockingly like "purity of form." Fucking lore. I actually did not want to bring up that conflict just now, but yes, you are completely correct. I was in the above talking about the new concept of essence (which to the best of my belief is inconsistent - or at least Dahaka is). EDIT: To the above: He really can't be talking about ghosts as they are included in the first statement about Terrans - or well I guess he could but it seems like a stretch. The same goes for hunting indigenous creatures on Korhol; I find it doubtful at the very best for there to be anything noteworthy there - and his lack of evolution going from dissatisfied to satisfied makes it hard to believe that he has actually found any noteworthy new trait. Which I guess could be chalked up to lazy artwork, but as that also used to be one of Blizzards trademarks it is hardly an argument in favor of Blizzard. Then we are back to quantity which I thought we had established would be downright silly due to Zurvan and the concept of essence we are otherwise given. | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On March 20 2013 12:54 Forikorder wrote: what purity of essence and form meant was never actually explained at all in the campaign the Zerg say essence when they mean DNA also even following your definention Essence is what makes the species radically specialized It **was** really easy to define purity of essence. "Purity of form" and "purity of essence" were sharply juxtaposed against each other. Xelnaga found the Protoss extremely powerful and well adapted individually but suffered from personal pride and in-fighting. With the Zerg, they took it to the other end of spectrum where the entire concept of individuality was banished. This other extreme is the purity of essence. There is no ambiguity there. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On March 20 2013 13:06 TanGeng wrote: It **was** really easy to define purity of essence. "Purity of form" and "purity of essence" were sharply juxtaposed against each other. Xelnaga found the Protoss extremely powerful and well adapted individually but suffered from personal pride and in-fighting. With the Zerg, they took it to the other end of spectrum where the entire concept of individuality was banished. This other extreme is the purity of essence. There is no ambiguity there. none of which has anything to do with assimilating other species which the Zerg have done since the were first called Zerg... To the above: He really can't be talking about ghosts as they are included in the first statement about Terrans - or well I guess he could but it seems like a stretch. The same goes for hunting indigenous creatures on Korhol; I find it doubtful at the very best for there to be anything noteworthy there - and his lack of evolution going from dissatisfied to satisfied makes it hard to believe that he has actually found any noteworthy new trait. Which I guess could be chalked up to lazy artwork, but as that also used to be one of Blizzards trademarks it is hardly an argument in favor of Blizzard. Then we are back to quantity which I thought we had established would be downright silly due to Zurvan and the concept of essence we are otherwise given. i wouldnt say he was dissatisfied just impatient im sure that every planet they came across had at least one species that had some sort of evolutionary trait slightly better then what Dehaka already had, better eyesight, better hearing, more effecient metabolism e.t.c and again the Terrans brains would be more involved then Dehakas since the primals seemed to have limited intelligence | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
hes sattisfied with the amount and again he could be taking the essence of ghosts and indigenous animals that have much more valuable essence Possible but incredibly convoluted. If the plot point requires a separate explanation just to seem consistent, the writing and/or presentation has failed. what purity of essence and form meant was never actually explained at all in the campaign the Zerg say essence when they mean DNA also even following your definention Essence is what makes the species radically specialized Actually it was incredibly clear. Purity of form is power/ability, as seen in the Protoss. Purity of Essence is an essence devoid of pride and ego, easily inferred from the disappointment that the Xel'Naga felt with the Protoss. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
Possible but incredibly convoluted. If the plot point requires a separate explanation just to seem consistent, the writing and/or presentation has failed. its not a plot point its a few throwaway lines from a side character | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On March 20 2013 13:07 Forikorder wrote: none of which has anything to do with assimilating other species which the Zerg have done since the were first called Zerg... On a tangent, as primal Zerg, there is no reason why Protoss shouldn't be targeted for assimilation as they would provide the best "essence" under the new definition. Most importantly, this is a fundamental rewrite of Zerg origins, especially because the "purity of essence" was not the reason for Zerg selection. Instead, the quick assimilation of foreign genetic data was the distinguishing attribute. The "purity of essence" was instead artificially imposed on the Zerg. It immensely cheapens the concept of Zerg if Xelnaga could create the "purity of essence" where it didn't exist. The impending doom associated with the coming of hybrids just feels stupid under such a scenario. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On March 20 2013 13:23 TanGeng wrote: On a tangent, as primal Zerg, there is no reason why Protoss shouldn't be targeted for assimilation as they would provide the best "essence" under the new definition. Most importantly, this is a fundamental rewrite of Zerg origins, especially because the "purity of essence" was not the reason for Zerg selection. Instead, the quick assimilation of foreign genetic data was the distinguishing attribute. The "purity of essence" was instead artificially imposed on the Zerg. It immensely cheapens the concept of Zerg if Xelnaga could create the "purity of essence" where it didn't exist. The impending doom of associated with the coming of hybrids just feels stupid under such a scenario. Protoss genetics are protected by the Khalaa so even if Dehaka ate every Protoss it wouldnt help it saids in the SC1 manual that the Xel'Naga arrived on Zerus then basically threw a dart to decide what race to steroid next they jsut chose the weakest lifeform they could | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On March 20 2013 13:21 Forikorder wrote: its not a plot point its a few throwaway lines from a side character First, even if it's very minor, it's a characteristic of the world, and so having this inconsistency makes it more difficult to be immersed in the world. Second, this is just one example of many problems, and my statement was a very general one that covers this and a whole host of other inconsistencies and plot holes in SC2. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On March 20 2013 13:34 Stratos_speAr wrote: First, even if it's very minor, it's a characteristic of the world, and so having this inconsistency makes it more difficult to be immersed in the world. Second, this is just one example of many problems, and my statement was a very general one that covers this and a whole host of other inconsistencies and plot holes in SC2. the story seemed fairly solid to me the only way i can see Dehakas line working against your immersion in the world is if you came into it assuming the stroy would be bad and were looking for flaws | ||
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