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Sanya12364 Posts
On March 20 2013 13:27 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 13:23 TanGeng wrote:On March 20 2013 13:07 Forikorder wrote:On March 20 2013 13:06 TanGeng wrote:On March 20 2013 12:54 Forikorder wrote:
what purity of essence and form meant was never actually explained at all
in the campaign the Zerg say essence when they mean DNA
also even following your definention Essence is what makes the species radically specialized It **was** really easy to define purity of essence. "Purity of form" and "purity of essence" were sharply juxtaposed against each other. Xelnaga found the Protoss extremely powerful and well adapted individually but suffered from personal pride and in-fighting. With the Zerg, they took it to the other end of spectrum where the entire concept of individuality was banished. This other extreme is the purity of essence. There is no ambiguity there. none of which has anything to do with assimilating other species which the Zerg have done since the were first called Zerg... On a tangent, as primal Zerg, there is no reason why Protoss shouldn't be targeted for assimilation as they would provide the best "essence" under the new definition. Most importantly, this is a fundamental rewrite of Zerg origins, especially because the "purity of essence" was not the reason for Zerg selection. Instead, the quick assimilation of foreign genetic data was the distinguishing attribute. The "purity of essence" was instead artificially imposed on the Zerg. It immensely cheapens the concept of Zerg if Xelnaga could create the "purity of essence" where it didn't exist. The impending doom of associated with the coming of hybrids just feels stupid under such a scenario. Protoss genetics are protected by the Khalaa so even if Dehaka ate every Protoss it wouldnt help it saids in the SC1 manual that the Xel'Naga arrived on Zerus then basically threw a dart to decide what race to steroid next they jsut chose the weakest lifeform they could
Your epic skills at mental gymnastics leave me speechless.
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I'm late to the party.
WoL took a huge dump on the SC1 universe and HotS picked up where WoL left off.
Phenomenally shitty story, plot holes you could fly a fleet through, awful characterization decisions.
Yes, you're entitled to your opinion if you liked it, and I'm entitled to the opinion that your opinion is shit.
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On March 20 2013 13:37 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 13:34 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 20 2013 13:21 Forikorder wrote:Possible but incredibly convoluted. If the plot point requires a separate explanation just to seem consistent, the writing and/or presentation has failed. its not a plot point its a few throwaway lines from a side character First, even if it's very minor, it's a characteristic of the world, and so having this inconsistency makes it more difficult to be immersed in the world. Second, this is just one example of many problems, and my statement was a very general one that covers this and a whole host of other inconsistencies and plot holes in SC2. the story seemed fairly solid to me the only way i can see Dehakas line working against your immersion in the world is if you came into it assuming the stroy would be bad and were looking for flaws
It's solid if you're 12 and have never read a story before.
And you've never played SC1 either, only read the wiki page on it
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On March 20 2013 13:55 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 13:37 Forikorder wrote:On March 20 2013 13:34 Stratos_speAr wrote:On March 20 2013 13:21 Forikorder wrote:Possible but incredibly convoluted. If the plot point requires a separate explanation just to seem consistent, the writing and/or presentation has failed. its not a plot point its a few throwaway lines from a side character First, even if it's very minor, it's a characteristic of the world, and so having this inconsistency makes it more difficult to be immersed in the world. Second, this is just one example of many problems, and my statement was a very general one that covers this and a whole host of other inconsistencies and plot holes in SC2. the story seemed fairly solid to me the only way i can see Dehakas line working against your immersion in the world is if you came into it assuming the stroy would be bad and were looking for flaws It's solid if you're 12 and have never read a story before. And you've never played SC1 either, only read the wiki page on it
ive played all the games (but the N64 one) thanks only thing i ahvent done is read the novels
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That's even more disturbing
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Stukov is part of Kerrigan's camp now - pretty good position for a spy, right? Or "evil shapeshifter" who's not actually dead.
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On March 20 2013 14:49 figq wrote:
Stukov is part of Kerrigan's camp now - pretty good position for a spy, right? Or "evil shapeshifter" who's not actually dead.
pretty inconceivalbe considering that both Kerrigan and Abathur took good long looks at him
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On March 20 2013 14:55 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 14:49 figq wrote:
Stukov is part of Kerrigan's camp now - pretty good position for a spy, right? Or "evil shapeshifter" who's not actually dead. pretty inconceivalbe considering that both Kerrigan and Abathur took good long looks at him Abathur is my other "usual suspect", by the way. Something about his uniqueness.
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On March 20 2013 14:49 figq wrote:
Stukov is part of Kerrigan's camp now - pretty good position for a spy, right? Or "evil shapeshifter" who's not actually dead.
It would pretty much have to be ""evil shapeshifter" who's not actually dead" for the story to make sense - else you would have a spy-Stukov kill one of the most loyal servants which seems pretty inconceivable. Furthermore we have zero clues pointing towards multiple servants on the level of a Duran/Narud unless you subscribe to the theory that they are 2 different servants. It could explain the lackluster killing of Narud in HotS, but it is going to take a lot of work to make it consistent with the already established lore in the games.
Abathur is almost guaranteed to turn on Kerrigan in LotV if presented with the option of splicing the hybrids - else he either betrays his own character (search for perfection) or the lore (combination of essence and form to create a higher (thus more perfect) being).
EDIT:
Regarding the essence/Dahaka story: No it is not a small point. Whilst the two conflicting sentences are both given by a sidecharacter (and a rather unimportant one at that) it is one of the places where we are given an insight into how the essences work (inherit trait vs trait from biomass) which forms the entire foundation of the Zerus-storyline; Kerrigans transformation and newly acquired powers as well as creation of the zerg race. But I guess understanding a central piece of the SC2 storyline is not all that important.
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About ten missions in, and while I can't say I'm really disappointed, I can say this sucks so far. The character's communicate in cliches and make baby-brain level decisions. I can't speak to the whole plot-arc as a whole, because I haven't finished yet, but it's not shaping up to be good.
The gameplay is alright. Would be better if characters weren't popping up on my screen all the time, and telling me the exact steps I need to take to beat each level. It would be nice to be given time to realize things on my own, instead of having them hold my hand and lead me through each level.
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3we8oip.png) Don't know why the protoss decided to keep an entire zoo on their ship. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6u6627S.png) For fuck's sake, force field you stupid sentry. Blocking small chokes with ff should be kindergarten level sentry training.
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1. There are many missions which are "tutorial missions" and not only the ones in the beginning of the campaign. Terrible idea to put those in because you must have WoL to play HotS and one set of tutorials is enough. The whole "evolution missions" are terribly boring.
2. Too many really really tightly scripted missions.
3. There is zero threat in the whole campaign, because there is no "campaign threat" from the bad guys. Mengsk never ever sends a fleet to assault a planet recently taken over by Kerrigan or threatens a supply line. Boring.
4. The overarcing feeling I got is that someone at Blizzard is having a laugh ... a really big laugh, because "Amon" always sounds like a WoW-Troll saying "ey mon". So are we being trolled or is it a coincidence?
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On March 20 2013 16:55 Rabiator wrote:
1. There are many missions which are "tutorial missions" and not only the ones in the beginning of the campaign. Terrible idea to put those in because you must have WoL to play HotS and one set of tutorials is enough. The whole "evolution missions" are terribly boring.
2. Too many really really tightly scripted missions.
3. There is zero threat in the whole campaign, because there is no "campaign threat" from the bad guys. Mengsk never ever sends a fleet to assault a planet recently taken over by Kerrigan or threatens a supply line. Boring.
4. The overarcing feeling I got is that someone at Blizzard is having a laugh ... a really big laugh, because "Amon" always sounds like a WoW-Troll saying "ey mon". So are we being trolled or is it a coincidence?
Kerrigan left the Koprulu Sector for a while I thought. Mengsk has no influence out there. And Mengsk did send a fleet out at the start. I dont see why Mengsk would bother going out to Kerrigan's territory when he knows she will eventually come to him. He has to deal with a rogue son, the creepy Narud, scattered rebellion and Raynor's Raiders anyway. If he goes out looking for Zerg, he also stands a good chance of running into Protoss which is a fight he doesnt need to start right now.
HotS felt like they were wrapping up BW through WoL plot line for Kerrigans fall and rise. They could have perhaps put a little more behind the Narud/Duran - Amon threat. I dont feel like Amon is particularlar scary or evil, just really powerful.
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Am I the only one who thinks they should've steered the Xel'Naga concept and story in another direction?
Before SC2, we had, Duran, we had a hybrid, mixture of zerg and protoss, but more importantly we had a stronger, much stronger focus on wars between RACES. Alliances, betrayals and so forth. Much more human-like behavoir, one could argue, and also much more relateable, than the SC2 storyline.
SC2 brings:
Alot of new "hokus pokus"... magic, artifacts, and and overarching focus on the Xel'Naga, and not really anything on the races themselves, other than alittle from HOTS, and a little from WOL.
I dunno.. it just seems SC2 went too far overboard with the whole GRAND SCHEME of things, whilst STILL just wanting it to be a love story between a boy and a girl... doesn't quite fit together.
I really do hope they introduce the UED in Legacy of the Void, just to add something else to the mixture of races, and also that we get a heavily focus on what the fuck the protoss have been doing for 2 campaigns now..
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Story was better than WoL. It was still garbage. The campaigns are about on par in terms of gameplay. There were things I both liked and disliked about compared to the other, but still both very, very fun.
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When it comes to plot advancement the way I see it, something happens at the end of every bw campaign mission. In sc2, something happens every campaign. Its just too slow cause theyre focused on the blizzard's gameplay gimmicks rather than the story itself.
I think it woulda been a lot better if kerrigan didn't lose control of her swarm and was trying to rebuild it the whole game, but rather she had her swarm from the start and she was ready to fuck shit up
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Overall I definitely found the HotS campaign better than WoL one, which was too crowded with clichés. Kerrigan is just a way more interesting character than Raynor/Tychus. Those two are arguably one of the most one-dimensional, predictable and thus boring characters I've seen yet in a computer game. Kerrigan's character in HotS still has its flaws, but it's way better than what we saw in WoL.
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On March 20 2013 18:30 Kal_rA wrote:
When it comes to plot advancement the way I see it, something happens at the end of every bw campaign mission. In sc2, something happens every campaign. Its just too slow cause theyre focused on the blizzard's gameplay gimmicks rather than the story itself.
I think it woulda been a lot better if kerrigan didn't lose control of her swarm and was trying to rebuild it the whole game, but rather she had her swarm from the start and she was ready to fuck shit up
I'm sometime wondering if Blizzard is trying to justify the fact that you don't have all the units in the beginning...
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GUYS:
Are we gonna try and consolidate this thread into something constructive criticism for Blizzard?
e.g. a post on Battle.net forums that will garner some attention ?
Could be cool to sum up what people are upset about, and present it to blizzard, come LOTV.
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On March 20 2013 18:12 BurgerFreak wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks they should've steered the Xel'Naga concept and story in another direction?
Before SC2, we had, Duran, we had a hybrid, mixture of zerg and protoss, but more importantly we had a stronger, much stronger focus on wars between RACES. Alliances, betrayals and so forth. Much more human-like behavoir, one could argue, and also much more relateable, than the SC2 storyline.
SC2 brings:
Alot of new "hokus pokus"... magic, artifacts, and and overarching focus on the Xel'Naga, and not really anything on the races themselves, other than alittle from HOTS, and a little from WOL.
I dunno.. it just seems SC2 went too far overboard with the whole GRAND SCHEME of things, whilst STILL just wanting it to be a love story between a boy and a girl... doesn't quite fit together.
I really do hope they introduce the UED in Legacy of the Void, just to add something else to the mixture of races, and also that we get a heavily focus on what the fuck the protoss have been doing for 2 campaigns now..
We have Duran, hybrids, and its still focused on Race wars. Xelnaga havent done anything other than loom in the shadows. It just feels different because BW was 3 plot lines occuring simultaneously across the 3 races while SC2 has plotlines occuring sequentially.
We have different terran factions, protoss factions and zerg factions. They just appear more self contained because progression is viewed through one race lens at a time. Also, i would argue that battle lines are more clearly drawn. Less in the way of gray areas.
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SCBW's story was dear to my heart, and like many others have said, WoL shat on it, and HotS lived up to WoL and continued its legacy. That said, I really enjoyed a few specific scenes, interpreting them from a stand-alone perspective, but hated the lead up and followthrough of said scenes. Also I had a lot of fun just playing the campaign on brutal, and wished it was harder towards the end.
At the end of the day, they just cut out a whole lot of character. In terms of just the amount of dialog, HotS is minute compared to BW. Bw had a whole damn mini episode of radio drama before every campaign mission. Followed by in-game scenes and scripted game-movie fights, kerrigan dropping lurkers from overlords, who then burrow and one-shot Fenix (or was it tassidar? i forget :p) HotS felt like the writing staff sat down and said, okay we need the following things to happen in HotS: Kerrigan to be tragically manipulated by Mengst again, kerrigan to come to terms with her new identity TWICE, kerrigan to have some badass cowboy banter with jim, kerrigan to kiss jim, kerrigan to have badass action scenes. Oh and of course zeratul has to make a cameo. Okay, we've got the outline, lets just stack em all up and sell the game. Her character development arc is fine, had there been more justification/buildup to each of these events. But instead blizzard chose to attempt to develop her, as well as add a new cast of zerg characters, as well as try to wrap up a few from Wings (introducing the upcomming zerg queen, adding a new villan and turning kerrigan into a anti-hero, tying off Narud/Duran). And on top of that, cut down on dialogue compared to BW. So as a result nothing is developed and everything is unsatisfying.
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EPT
