Why does nobody seem to understand this bit? When crossfire was release it was pretty damn revolutionary. Although perhaps it is better placed on this list instead.

On March 09 2013 11:04 Fatam wrote:I would kind of like to see a "top 10 influential maps" list added to the OP.

igay

Australia1178 Posts

March 09 2013 04:39 GMT

#142

you got it pretty much nailed dont know about crossfire though

lichter

1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts

March 09 2013 04:45 GMT

#143

Crossfire is an interesting case, because it made some of the best games and some of the worst games.

incoherent

United States54 Posts

March 09 2013 04:53 GMT

#144

Testbug should be on the "most extreme" list somewhere, even if most people only remember it for That Game between Idra and MMA.

Grimmyman123

Canada939 Posts

March 09 2013 05:08 GMT

#145

On March 09 2013 12:40 Azelja wrote:
A zerg icon... hmm... That certainly explains some of the picks.

Yup, I was going to comment to the same effect.

As a protoss player... and I don't speak for everyone..

I hated more than half of the OP's top picks.

I could not stand Ohana, Shakuras, Daybreak or Cloud Kingdom. I actually have the last three veto'd, Ohana would have been if I had a 4th veto. It stayed on my pool because I hated it the least, not because I liked it.

Fatam

1986 Posts

March 09 2013 05:11 GMT

#146

How is Testbug "extreme"? Several people have suggested this.

Honestly it's a fairly standard map, other than the fact that it's 3p.

Venomsflame

United States613 Posts

March 09 2013 05:14 GMT

#147

On March 09 2013 14:11 Fatam wrote:
How is Testbug "extreme"? Several people have suggested this.

Honestly it's a fairly standard map, other than the fact that it's 3p.

It's pretty standard in shape, but I guess the rocks at the towers in addition to it being a 3p map makes it pretty unique. Fun to play on though

Raid

United States398 Posts

March 09 2013 05:16 GMT

#148

how is protoss kingdom #1... If anything the most memorable map ever from WOL should be Metalopolis

Doc Daneeka

United States577 Posts

March 09 2013 05:26 GMT

#149

On March 09 2013 13:53 incoherent wrote:
Testbug should be on the "most extreme" list somewhere, even if most people only remember it for That Game between Idra and MMA.

bahahaha it's insanely funny to me that despite the thousands of games i've watched i instantly knew what you were talking about.

the maps have come a looong way from beta and launch but i definitely don't think it's perfect. closest to perfect as was listed in the OP seem to me to be cloud kingdom and daybreak, but i don't think this game can continue to go forward on the backs of two solid maps. the mapmakers really need to continue to stay involved, and the community and tournaments in particular really need to continue to support them. i don't think we can count on the ladder map pool to do this for us. i mean props to blizzard for recognizing the cream of the crop and putting them in the ladder pool but blizzard's maps themselves have generally been at best the 'least worst'. part of that is hindsight of course, metalopolis and xel'naga caverns seemed good at the time.

one thing i'm really keen on is for tournament map-makers to start experimenting with watchtower-less maps. there's a whole unexplored dimension of the game there when the races have to depend entirely on their respective scouting/map awareness tools. something that comes to mind is the oracle's 'parasite' ability (i forget what it's called, not the detection but the other thing that gives vision of a clump of units). i'm not saying watchtowers are all bad, but up till now we've been just taking them for granted as a constant factor in the game, it's like building workers or something, you just do it as much as you can get away with in every single game. there's room for maps that have watchtowers of course, but i want to see them become more of a specialized terrain feature i guess. it seems like not having that insane vision coverage would force more movement on the map, and the way HotS has changed the game i think we're poised to take advantage of something like that better than before.

also, is anyone else bummed the iccup brood war ports didn't catch on? i remember some pretty crazy games in the beta, on sc2 destination in particular.

props for including crossfire in the list, that map generated some insane games. it fell out of favor for a reason but someone should really expand on the concept.

iTzSnypah

United States1738 Posts

March 09 2013 05:28 GMT

#150

Oh god how metalopolis was my bane. I remember dieing to ling run bys TvZ while trying to set up your third.

FeyFey

Germany10114 Posts

March 09 2013 05:39 GMT

#151

Really interesting map choices I can understand the reasoning on most.

I would personally give Taldarim a special spot above Incineration Zone. Not because it was a bad map, but what horrors it caused to sc2 balance wise.

I think maps are really important for a rts game, to keep it fresh when everything was found it. Maps throw this off and create new mysteries to solve.

And from WoL I learned that it is a pretty bad idea to try to balance the game with maps, while developers are still working on it. It creates overreactions and mistakes if both sides aren't careful.

Ben...

Canada3485 Posts

March 09 2013 05:55 GMT

#152

I do think Metalopolis should be number one as others have said. After close ground positions were removed it was the map that started to show the potential the game had. Of the earlier seasons of GSL it was by far one of the better maps with many amazing games played on it. It is also one of the only old maps that you could still go back to and play a decent game on, along with Shakuras.

thezanursic

5500 Posts

March 09 2013 07:26 GMT

#153

On March 09 2013 10:51 Qikz wrote:

Show nested quote +

I really disagree with your point about only one style of map works in WoL.

Arkanoid has shown near the end that a completely different style can actually work and be entertaining to play/watch, but until recently nobody has really bothered experementing too much (in the tournaments that is).

WOL= It's a different map. How can I play the same style slightly differently on this map?

BW= It's a different map. What kind of style should I tailor for this map?

That's the feeling I got after I played/watched several hundred games of both games.

AxionSteel

United States7754 Posts

March 09 2013 07:57 GMT

#154

On March 09 2013 12:40 Azelja wrote:
A zerg icon... hmm... That certainly explains some of the picks.

Yup, I was thinking that as well.

Personally, I find Cloud Kingdom to be a very average map, it's ok i guess, but certainly no way #1.

Plexa

Aotearoa39261 Posts

March 09 2013 08:00 GMT

#155

On March 09 2013 16:57 AxionSteel wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yup, I was thinking that as well.

Personally, I find Cloud Kingdom to be a very average map, it's ok i guess, but certainly no way #1.

Barrin is a highly respected mapper and has a vast amount of experience when it comes to creating and analyzing maps. tldr; he knows his shit! While you may not agree with his list, I can understand why he has ranked things the way he has purely from a mapping point of view.

tuestresfat

2555 Posts

March 09 2013 08:09 GMT

#156

On March 09 2013 13:45 lichter wrote:
Crossfire is an interesting case, because it made some of the best games and some of the worst games.

Yea i feel like it should've gone in the extreme category. It was definitely an entertaining map when you didn't care for either player.

ps. Nice thread, was definitely fun reading. Not sure I agree with some of the choices but to be honest I probably wouldn't have much of an opinion until I read this. There should be a category for best maps in terms of looks/feel ^_^ belshir beach would top the list for me, I don't care if it's balanced or not it looks cool and that's what made it fun to play on.

Big J

Austria16289 Posts

March 09 2013 08:21 GMT

#157

On March 09 2013 12:05 EZSkull wrote:
I saw the Top 10 Worst... didn't see Steppes.... and questioned immediately, that map as Zerg was stupid

It wasn't half as bad as people say it was. Sure the rush distance was stupid but that's nothing other maps (close position 4player maps, incineration zone...) didn't have at that time.
If it hadn't been for the rush distance it would have been a really good map for it's time. (good base layout, interesting terrain features)

algue

France1436 Posts

March 09 2013 08:27 GMT

#158

I prefer the worst more than the bests

incoherent

United States54 Posts

March 09 2013 08:34 GMT

#159

On March 09 2013 14:11 Fatam wrote:
How is Testbug "extreme"? Several people have suggested this.

Honestly it's a fairly standard map, other than the fact that it's 3p.

Testbug did a bunch of interesting things: rocks on top of the towers, the first appearance I know of of the rocks between the minerals and the expansion spot, and simply being a 3 player map (one of only two to see competitive play, and no one liked Xel'Naga Fortress). The bottom 5 on the OP's list are all reasonably standard-looking maps; they're just on there for other reasons.

Targe

United Kingdom14103 Posts

March 09 2013 08:38 GMT

#160

I really miss Metalopolis

I had some awesome games there.
Antiga deserves its place as a worst map, it's like the creator didn't know about the existence of a >3 base game.
Daybreak could be a little lower on the top 5, definitely deserves its place though.
Also Abyssal Caverns, lol at that third.