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On February 10 2013 10:09 mcleod wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 10:05 hypercube wrote:
Life-time ban for non-tournament ladder hacking? Are people out of their minds? TSL2 cheaters got 12 month ban + 1 TSL ban if I recall correctly (and it was by far the harshest punishment for hacking at the time).
Daisuki deserves something like a warning and maybe to get bumped down on some invite lists for a few month at worst. If it happens again a short ban too. you are stupid hes not 5 years old, he knew what he was doing, no one forced him to do it ban him for a year from all online and offline tournaments, delete his multiple bnet accounts and be done with it
Hint: if you are going to argue for harsh punishments in general, make sure you follow the rules yourself (i.e, no personal attacks and use proper punctuation).
BTW, I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't making excuses for him. I just think it's not a major issue. You're probably right about the bnet ban, but that's ultimately Blizzard's decision.
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On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote:
First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP.
And so forth...
I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago.
I apologize for that.
I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS)
“Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.”
I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
No go away, you got caught cheating once already. You had your chances.
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On February 10 2013 10:27 damahammer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote:
First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP.
And so forth...
I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago.
I apologize for that.
I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS)
“Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.”
I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again! No go away, you got caught cheating once already. You had your chances.
I agree with this. The ladder may not mean much to you but for others it means a lot. And obviously you wouldn't cheat in tournaments since it's so much easier to get caught.
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Man, I used to play with Daisuki 2-3 years ago back in a clan called cso. This is really sad to hear since I never expected something like this from him.
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On February 10 2013 03:14 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 03:03 EtherealDeath wrote:On February 10 2013 02:50 HTOMario wrote:On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote:
First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP.
And so forth...
I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago.
I apologize for that.
I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS)
“Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.”
I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again! You made the decision, you hacked. I'm sorry but I don't condone you ruining so many players ladder experience or taking away their time from decent practice. I don't think you should be allowed in any more tournaments. Once a hacker... I have 0 respect for people who tried to cheat their way. Well as Glon said, if (hypothetically) for some reason he was pressured into this by sponsors (for whatever hypothetical reason) and could produce lots of direct evidence for this, then I personally could understand it (as Glon said he would as well). But all that is quite hypothetical, and I somehow doubt it's the case. Why does it matter if he was pressured or not? Every pro in a team has some kind of pressure to show better results, even if it's indirect pressure, because no team wants a guy who wins nothing. In the end everyone wants to be better and if you choose unfair path then it's your choice.
Yes it matters if he was pressured (forced) to do so by his sponsors. Sponsors can essentially make pros do anything they want.... or the pro doesn't get any $$.
Again, all of this is hypothetical. I'm still awaiting a response from Daisuki.
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On February 10 2013 10:34 Glon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 03:14 Alpina wrote:On February 10 2013 03:03 EtherealDeath wrote:On February 10 2013 02:50 HTOMario wrote:On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote:
First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP.
And so forth...
I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago.
I apologize for that.
I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS)
“Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.”
I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again! You made the decision, you hacked. I'm sorry but I don't condone you ruining so many players ladder experience or taking away their time from decent practice. I don't think you should be allowed in any more tournaments. Once a hacker... I have 0 respect for people who tried to cheat their way. Well as Glon said, if (hypothetically) for some reason he was pressured into this by sponsors (for whatever hypothetical reason) and could produce lots of direct evidence for this, then I personally could understand it (as Glon said he would as well). But all that is quite hypothetical, and I somehow doubt it's the case. Why does it matter if he was pressured or not? Every pro in a team has some kind of pressure to show better results, even if it's indirect pressure, because no team wants a guy who wins nothing. In the end everyone wants to be better and if you choose unfair path then it's your choice. Yes it matters if he was pressured (forced) to do so by his sponsors. Sponsors can essentially make pros do anything they want.... or the pro doesn't get any $$. Again, all of this is hypothetical. I'm still awaiting a response from Daisuki.
Even though the reason doesn't matter I have to admit its the most unique excuse I've heard of so far as of why someone would cheat. If this is true that is 
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On February 10 2013 10:34 Glon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 03:14 Alpina wrote:On February 10 2013 03:03 EtherealDeath wrote:On February 10 2013 02:50 HTOMario wrote:On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote:
First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP.
And so forth...
I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago.
I apologize for that.
I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS)
“Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.”
I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again! You made the decision, you hacked. I'm sorry but I don't condone you ruining so many players ladder experience or taking away their time from decent practice. I don't think you should be allowed in any more tournaments. Once a hacker... I have 0 respect for people who tried to cheat their way. Well as Glon said, if (hypothetically) for some reason he was pressured into this by sponsors (for whatever hypothetical reason) and could produce lots of direct evidence for this, then I personally could understand it (as Glon said he would as well). But all that is quite hypothetical, and I somehow doubt it's the case. Why does it matter if he was pressured or not? Every pro in a team has some kind of pressure to show better results, even if it's indirect pressure, because no team wants a guy who wins nothing. In the end everyone wants to be better and if you choose unfair path then it's your choice. Yes it matters if he was pressured (forced) to do so by his sponsors. Sponsors can essentially make pros do anything they want.... or the pro doesn't get any $$. Again, all of this is hypothetical. I'm still awaiting a response from Daisuki.
I'd hope a sponsor would be intelligent enough to not "pressure" a player to cheat, because the bad publicity from it would lose them more sells than positive effect from exposure. Especially when its purely ladder rank at stake.
And the Pro still has the choice. If they have to cheat to be good enough to meet a sponsors expectations, they probably don't deserve the sponsor. It's harsh, but I believe it to be true.
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I doubt a random Brazilian drink manufacturer cares that they have lost face with a small gaming community. Someone just paid him to get the name out there as an easy thing to do and I guess the money was too good to pass up.
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On February 09 2013 23:50 NITRIXdaisuki wrote:
First off, I’d like to start off by saying that I do not deny any accusations mentioned by the OP.
And so forth...
I have never cheated in any online or offline tournament (and won’t ever.) I did not make this decision to do what I did but agreed to it because it was a worthwhile venture at the time. A venture of which only began about two weeks ago.
I apologize for that.
I’m hoping ladder is not so important as to prevent me from participating in upcoming tournaments. I know I did wrong and learned from it the hard way. I hope that I can be accepted back even though chances of me of ever winning tournaments are pretty slim due to my age. (I’m getting old, fingers, wrist, and shoulder/neck affected after WCS)
“Sigh, when I was good rank 1 GM was easy I hate my life.”
I learned from my mistake. Won't ever happen again!
Well, at least you posted in here. I don't find your response to the cheating accusations very reassuring though. It's pretty stupid to say that you only agreed to it, rather than making a decision. There's no difference. You made the conscious decision to cheat. Period. And you don't deny it, which means you did it (as if the evidence in the original post wasn't enough). And, quite frankly, we don't exactly know if you've never cheated in an online tournament. I'm hoping that you're done with the sport. Also... 23 isn't that old lol.
But great detective work by the OP. Well done!
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i don't believe for a second any sponsor told him to do this. its ridiculous. what would be the motiv? there is none. he's just trying to divert the blame from himself. secondly, so what if someone told him to cheat? if he said yes then he completely lacks integrity. its still his problem that he cheated.
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lol daisuki is so bad thats why he needs to cheat dumb hacker
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I don't understand why so many pro-gamers from US feel the need to cheat.
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Well, being a convicted cheater is pretty bad already, but after reading that half-assed apology attempt i've got to say that he's a delusional convicted cheater, which is even worse. People aren't stupid like in medieval times anymore, so goodbye, you've ruined your career and deserve to have it completely ended for all time.
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On February 10 2013 11:24 Benjamin99 wrote:
I don't understand why so many pro-gamers from US feel the need to cheat.
How is this a US-only problem? People from all over the world have cheated. In fact, plenty of people mentioned in this very thread (and in previous threads) are non-American -.-' That's a very ignorant remark to make.
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On February 10 2013 11:24 Benjamin99 wrote:
I don't understand why so many pro-gamers from US feel the need to cheat.
I dont recall there being many... wut?
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judging by his twitter posts, i dont feel that he's very sorry for his actions... something like this should tarnish your reputation as a progamer, as well as a person in general.
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On February 10 2013 09:36 crbox wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 09:18 YumYumGranola wrote:On February 10 2013 08:56 crbox wrote:On February 10 2013 08:36 YumYumGranola wrote:
I really don't feel that the lifetime ban is justified when you consider his actions. I mean, that's what sAviOr and other progamers got from KeSPA for the match fixing scandal, and they literally broke the law. To my knowledge KeSPA hasn't handed out any other lifetime bans to any other persons. The punishment should fit the crime, and I don't think the precedent set to date justifies a lifetime ban for something which wasn't even done in a tournament.
One thing I think people should consider is that if mob justice is NOT a good thing. In fact a lynching would probably be worse for the eSports community than any number of map-hackers on ladder. One of the big problems facing SC2 is that there is a marked lack in professionalism on the part of teams and tournament organizers. Say what you will about KeSPA, but having a governing body to set the standards for how tournaments and teams are to be run is extremely important from a business perspective. After all, if prospective sponsors and networks are doing their research and all they see is a disjointed community with teams operating under different standards of professionalism, tournaments and teams getting accused of not paying their bills, and mob mentality when it comes to settling disputes, they're going to want to stay well away from it. If a punishment is going to be handed down, there has to be an established body which is able to gather information, and determine the severity of the punishment based on a published code of conduct. This body needs to have some kind of control or leverage over affiliated tournaments to ensure that they follow their decisions. It needs to be consistent, fair, and ultimately professional. This is not middle school where we can as a group all swear we won't invite Daisuki to our birthday parties anymore. This has literally nothing to do with KeSPA and sAviOr's case. Daisuki hacked on ladder. He might lose his sponsorship (to be confirmed) and Blizzard might ban his account(s). He has no relation with KeSPA whatsoever and I don't believe organizations have spoken on whether or not they were gonna ban him from offline event. Like you said above KeSPA was completely different, there was some big money involved lol... I agree that the circumstances of the two events are completely different, but just pointing out that I can't recall any other instance in which a player has received a lifetime ban, which is what a lot of people are calling for. My overall point was that I don't think it would be a good thing if tournament organizers and teams all ban Daisuki as a knee-jerk reaction to some large negative community reaction to this specific instance, especially when players with more serious transgressions have been given a pass in the past. I am arguing that there should be some code of conduct and associated penalties for transgressions that tournament organizers and teams can agree to which should be applied in instances like this. In every other major professional sport in the world punishments are at least partly regulated by governing bodies, and if we truly believe that eSports should be a professional scene I don't see a reason why it should be any different. I understand your train of thoughts. Like I said in my post above (addressed to you), I don't think organizations have even begun to speculate about a lifetime ban or any ban for that matter. If you read what I wrote, we're talking about a BLIZZARD BAN of ONLINE ACCOUNTS (I put those in caps so you have an easier time reading it.) I don't think Daisuki will be banned from LANs, you can't really hack there anyways and he's still a decent player. The only concern would be online qualifiers and tournaments, where organizers will need to look closely to his play for any suspect actions. Also SC2 is very different from any other "sports" because if someone cheats in sports, by taking steroids, they get banned because there's no way to stop once you start... Daisuki didn't hack in a tournament, so as far as they are concerned, they have no reason to ban him. I would be very surprised if MLG banned Daisuki as he is not even that known.
Well obviously his Blizzard accounts with which he has cheated should be banned. Map-hacking is clearly a violation of Blizzard's Terms of Use Agreement (Item 2.A) and therefore his account licenses should be revoked once Blizzard has reviewed the evidence. This only applies to licensed accounts with which he has been proven to have cheated, as each license carries it's own exclusive Terms of Use Agreement. If that was really all that was being discussed I don't know why we needed a 30 page thread, except for it maybe to be an echo chamber for people to talk about how disappointed they are.
However, my original post was made in response to quite a rather large number of posts thus far which have been calling for a complete ban of the professional scene. While you correctly pointed out that no tournament organizers have taken any disciplinary actions yet, that statement in and of itself is completely irrelevant. My post wasn't addressed to MLG, it was addressed to the members of this forum who were actively speculating about complete competitive bans for Daisuki. Sorry for any confusion caused on my end, but I don't think there was any need for all caps  .
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On February 10 2013 11:31 YumYumGranola wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 09:36 crbox wrote:On February 10 2013 09:18 YumYumGranola wrote:On February 10 2013 08:56 crbox wrote:On February 10 2013 08:36 YumYumGranola wrote:
I really don't feel that the lifetime ban is justified when you consider his actions. I mean, that's what sAviOr and other progamers got from KeSPA for the match fixing scandal, and they literally broke the law. To my knowledge KeSPA hasn't handed out any other lifetime bans to any other persons. The punishment should fit the crime, and I don't think the precedent set to date justifies a lifetime ban for something which wasn't even done in a tournament.
One thing I think people should consider is that if mob justice is NOT a good thing. In fact a lynching would probably be worse for the eSports community than any number of map-hackers on ladder. One of the big problems facing SC2 is that there is a marked lack in professionalism on the part of teams and tournament organizers. Say what you will about KeSPA, but having a governing body to set the standards for how tournaments and teams are to be run is extremely important from a business perspective. After all, if prospective sponsors and networks are doing their research and all they see is a disjointed community with teams operating under different standards of professionalism, tournaments and teams getting accused of not paying their bills, and mob mentality when it comes to settling disputes, they're going to want to stay well away from it. If a punishment is going to be handed down, there has to be an established body which is able to gather information, and determine the severity of the punishment based on a published code of conduct. This body needs to have some kind of control or leverage over affiliated tournaments to ensure that they follow their decisions. It needs to be consistent, fair, and ultimately professional. This is not middle school where we can as a group all swear we won't invite Daisuki to our birthday parties anymore. This has literally nothing to do with KeSPA and sAviOr's case. Daisuki hacked on ladder. He might lose his sponsorship (to be confirmed) and Blizzard might ban his account(s). He has no relation with KeSPA whatsoever and I don't believe organizations have spoken on whether or not they were gonna ban him from offline event. Like you said above KeSPA was completely different, there was some big money involved lol... I agree that the circumstances of the two events are completely different, but just pointing out that I can't recall any other instance in which a player has received a lifetime ban, which is what a lot of people are calling for. My overall point was that I don't think it would be a good thing if tournament organizers and teams all ban Daisuki as a knee-jerk reaction to some large negative community reaction to this specific instance, especially when players with more serious transgressions have been given a pass in the past. I am arguing that there should be some code of conduct and associated penalties for transgressions that tournament organizers and teams can agree to which should be applied in instances like this. In every other major professional sport in the world punishments are at least partly regulated by governing bodies, and if we truly believe that eSports should be a professional scene I don't see a reason why it should be any different. I understand your train of thoughts. Like I said in my post above (addressed to you), I don't think organizations have even begun to speculate about a lifetime ban or any ban for that matter. If you read what I wrote, we're talking about a BLIZZARD BAN of ONLINE ACCOUNTS (I put those in caps so you have an easier time reading it.) I don't think Daisuki will be banned from LANs, you can't really hack there anyways and he's still a decent player. The only concern would be online qualifiers and tournaments, where organizers will need to look closely to his play for any suspect actions. Also SC2 is very different from any other "sports" because if someone cheats in sports, by taking steroids, they get banned because there's no way to stop once you start... Daisuki didn't hack in a tournament, so as far as they are concerned, they have no reason to ban him. I would be very surprised if MLG banned Daisuki as he is not even that known. Well obviously his Blizzard accounts with which he has cheated should be banned. Map-hacking is clearly a violation of Blizzard's Terms of Use Agreement (Item 2.A) and therefore his account licenses should be revoked once Blizzard has reviewed the evidence. This only applies to licensed accounts with which he has been proven to have cheated, as each license carries it's own exclusive Terms of Use Agreement. If that was really all that was being discussed I don't know why we needed a 30 page thread, except for it maybe to be an echo chamber for people to talk about how disappointed they are. However, my original post was made in response to quite a rather large number of posts thus far which have been calling for a complete ban of the professional scene. While you correctly pointed out that no tournament organizers have taken any disciplinary actions yet, that statement in and of itself is completely irrelevant. My post wasn't addressed to MLG, it was addressed to the members of this forum who were actively speculating about complete competitive bans for Daisuki. Sorry for any confusion caused on my end, but I don't think there was any need for all caps .
i'm not sure, i think just the fact that a known maphacker is allowed to participate in their tournament tarnishes the said tournament's reputation as is... this kind of action should not be acceptable under any consequences, so the punishment for this should not be light as well.
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Honestly I cannot understand some of you. Hacking is okay as long you only did it on ladder? Saying that its bad but then saying he's a decent player who should be allowed to play in offline LANs...it's shameful. His abiltiy as a player is ENTIRELY irrelevant. He cheated for personal gain. We as a community should not stand for this. You talk about professionalism, but Daisuki is showing none himself.
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NITRIXdaisuki @NITRIXdaisuki
Anyone know how long it took for tournament hackers to be forgiven?
He basically said he hacked during tournaments.
Just permaban him from every tournament.
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EPT
