• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:36
CEST 07:36
KST 14:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly4Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"7ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!35Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters2Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)106
StarCraft 2
General
3kb/s downloading patch..... are we back to 1998? Terran or Protoss Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon Looking for NASL Season 1 VODs
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly INu's Battles#18 - Cure, herO, Rogue & ByuN
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Industrial Park New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate
External Content
Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recent recommended BW games
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament Star Con San Diego 2026 Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvT advise for noobs
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Artificial Intelligence Thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread How to buy a book - shipping from Korea to Europe
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread 2026-27 Football Thread placeholder TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Games, Hormones, and "Dark" …
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8029 users

[MLG] Winter Season featuring Heart of the Swarm - Page 25

Forum Index > SC2 General
547 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 23 24 25 26 27 28 Next All
MarkCJ
Profile Joined December 2012
Canada239 Posts
February 02 2013 01:08 GMT
#481
Very much looking forward to this! will tune in for sure
"Roses are red, QoP is blue, Anti-Mage is imba, so fuck you." Startale_Life | SKT_Bisu Hwaiting!
ZergCacique
Profile Joined July 2011
United States28 Posts
February 02 2013 04:46 GMT
#482
So my question is why not continue with WoL? if the server are so unstable
you could've being the last greatest WoL tournament of 2013!!!

RotterdaM
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Netherlands684 Posts
February 02 2013 08:23 GMT
#483
On February 02 2013 09:53 MLG_Adam wrote:
To quote my boss…

“I get it”

I really do. I understand exactly why everyone is mad that there is zero open components to our Dallas competition. I can tell you with 100% sincerity that every single person at MLG (all 30ish of us) agree whole heartedly. We started out as an underdog in this space 10 years ago with the aim of making video games an aspirational, competitive “sport”. That trait as a company culture is still what drives us today and serves as the back bone of what we strive to do from a tournament offering.

So how did we get to the situation at hand with Dallas SC2? For starters, when we picked 3/15-3/17 as our first date of 2013 and went about sourcing venues, HOTS’ release date was not announced. The activity you see planned out now for Dallas was similar to our original plan for WOL that we had started dreaming up in 2012. However, the key difference was we had planned to have nearly all of the spots awarded via open competition within each region. When HOTS was announced for the same weekend as our event we immediately consulted Blizzard and we mutually decided that large open competition on beta servers might not lead to the best customer experience. So we improvised as best as we could to create the structure that we have now. We did an internal ranking of players taking into account every single global event in 2012 and meted out regional invites based on that hierarchy. While some of you might not like the new structure, it will still harbor many of the very best SC2 players based on 2012 global performance and we couldn’t be more excited about seeing it unfold.

I’d also like to point out some key items that we strove to fix based on community feedback, and just general milestones:
    • “MLG books over other events” Early in 2012 we reached out to other organizations to ensure that any event we were planning to book was not in conflict with any other global tournaments.
    • “MLG and GSL don’t like each other” While this entire situation was boiling publicly, behind the scenes we have always been on good terms with GSL. When I set about creating our 2012 structure, I reached out Mr. Chae and with his help we worked with directly with the ESF to include them in our qualification.
    • “MLG and KESPA don’t want anyone else involved” KESPA will continue to be our partner and ally within this space. As we expanded out our league relationships, we were able to not only maintain our great KESPA relationship, but strengthen it through increased communication.
    • “MLG’s production needs to step up” We agree. With 200+ open participants and TBD group results, creating a stellar broadcast was a hectic endeavor. Our goal for 2013 was to slow down and do more by doing less. What does that mean? It means I don’t want a great series to happen on the floor and no one outside of those in the room knows it even happened. Players deserve to be treated like stars and if in attendance to have their matches broadcast. So we set about exploring a structure that allowed us to prepare an incredible live event production and broadcast SHOW weeks in advance not the day of the tournament.
    • “MLG looks like a trade show” Agree again. Expect our first complete event overhaul since 2006. Hell, since 2003 as the current iteration is the same basic floor plan that we have used since the beginning. Everything will be elevated this year.
    • “Double elimination is not a great fan experience” We want every match to mean something and for our structure to be EXTREMELY easy to follow. Winner advances, loser goes home.
    • Other items to note:
      o $75,000 in prize money with 16 players earning money
      o Every single qualified player will have a flight and hotel paid by MLG
      o Enhanced broadcast experience. We’re not done announcing AMAZING broadcast perks for our events


So in conclusion, and to reiterate our previous comments on the situation: this format is being used ONLY for Dallas. We are not done announcing details for the 2013 season and I am very confident that many of the concerns will be squelched once they come to light. I know many people are not happy with us right now, and I know others are taking shots while we appear to be down, but I ask you to bear with us and understand that this is a very unique situation. We have ALWAYS had an open component to our season, and we will strive to do so in the future. Dallas will be an amazing kick off to Heart of the Swarm and I promise we will put on an amazing tournament and show.

Thank you for your support. This is our 10th year operating tournaments, and we could not have done it without our fans.


great post adam, I'm sure it's gonna be a sick event and I seriously can't wait for it to start.
Commentatorwww.instagram.com/RotterdaM08 for pictures of cute puppies.
iglocska
Profile Joined May 2011
Norway589 Posts
February 02 2013 09:30 GMT
#484
Can't wait for the event!
omgCRAZY
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada551 Posts
February 02 2013 10:05 GMT
#485
People posting that they it's not fair that it is invite only are being completely ridiculous.

HOTS is still in the beta phase and there is going to be issues that are going to come up that an invite tournament can better deal with. When WOL first came out there were big tournaments that were invite only. Guess what! Those players earned the right to get invited by the time and effort they have put in or the skill they have shown.

There will be MLG tournaments that have open brackets, I guarantee it. People whining that it is an invite only tournament for a beta when no other big tournaments have been run yet it is stupid.
THIS NEEDS FACE!
tshi
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2495 Posts
February 02 2013 10:15 GMT
#486
On February 01 2013 15:51 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2013 15:42 Elite_ wrote:
On February 01 2013 15:36 TheEmulator wrote:
HOTS in MLG, that sounds pretty sick

Until you read everything that MLG removed from the event compared to previous MLG events.

not really. we are getting legit HotS tournament play starting in 4 days. As someone who has been playing HotS for a few months now and isn't nearly as interested in WoL anymore, I'm rather excited. I'll miss the open bracket, but I can live without it for this one event. I get to watch Flash, Thorzain, Life, Stephano, Rain, and other gosu players in HotS.

Shit happens, you gotta deal with it. And thats what MLG is doing. You can act like a child and pout, kick and scream about it. Or you can be an adult, look at the big picture and realize, hey this is the first HotS tournament! And Flash is playing in it.

hahahaha yeah right

I'm amused sometimes at how many people come out of the woodwork to get in some kind general snide remark whenever something negative happens to organizations. The whole kicking people while they're down thing is really annoying to read.
scrub - inexperienced player with relatively little skill and excessive arrogance
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12813 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-02 10:30:32
February 02 2013 10:30 GMT
#487
i think it's just awesome to have our first official hots tournament being mlg.
they always have good games
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
February 02 2013 11:31 GMT
#488
Thanks for the explanation, seems a lot more reasonable now. One point I disagree though was double elimination not being a cool viewing experience? I think it's great if players get a second shot, I hate when one Bo3 series decides their entire tournament life. I always watch out for impressive losers bracket runs. So please don't cut that out!
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
DreamOen
Profile Joined March 2010
Spain1400 Posts
February 02 2013 12:19 GMT
#489
every tournament had to pick a way to transition over to HoTs, MLG picked it one , I cant say I agree completely but its a way to deal with it.
Tester | MC | Crank | Flash | Jaedong | MVP
hellokittySC2
Profile Joined September 2009
United States395 Posts
February 02 2013 12:52 GMT
#490
if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous.
twitter.com/hellokittyhots facebook.com/hellokittysc2 hellokitty.278, http://twitch.tv/noobeater5 为中国人在星际上争气!
hzflank
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom2991 Posts
February 02 2013 13:06 GMT
#491
MLG have made a mistake, in my opinion. To the customers (viewers and players) the obvious solution to the Dallas problem would of been to have open online qualifiers in WoL and then a live finals in HoTS. Obviously it is too late to change it now, but at least it is only for one tournament and not all year.
deepfield1
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States373 Posts
February 02 2013 13:07 GMT
#492
Great post Adam - I am confused why a lot of this information this wasn't included in the OP. MLG must have realized this sort of community fallout was coming?
TigerKarl
Profile Joined November 2010
1757 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-02 13:17:41
February 02 2013 13:17 GMT
#493
I support your decision to have no open bracket for this one time for avoiding to get into the danger of having huge issues. Look at what problems Blizzard had with the start of Diablo 3, who knows how stable the servers will be so soon after the launch of HOTS. The less players, the less possible problems and all of us viewers want a professionally produced tournament. So having to choose between WoL+Open Bracket or HOTS without Open bracket is not difficult as probably 90% of people would rather see HOTS at that point.
hellokittySC2
Profile Joined September 2009
United States395 Posts
February 02 2013 13:19 GMT
#494
On February 02 2013 22:17 TigerKarl wrote:
I support your decision to have no open bracket for this one time for avoiding to get into the danger of having huge issues. Look at what problems Blizzard had with the start of Diablo 3, who knows how stable the servers will be so soon after the launch of HOTS. The less players, the less possible problems and all of us viewers want a professionally produced tournament. So having to choose between WoL+Open Bracket or HOTS without Open bracket is not difficult as probably 90% of people would rather see HOTS at that point.

what kind of *huge issues* are you going to have? pro gamers will still win and get through like the previous OPEN brackets, i don't understand what kind of professionalism is there.
twitter.com/hellokittyhots facebook.com/hellokittysc2 hellokitty.278, http://twitch.tv/noobeater5 为中国人在星际上争气!
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 02 2013 14:51 GMT
#495
On February 02 2013 22:19 hellokittySC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 22:17 TigerKarl wrote:
I support your decision to have no open bracket for this one time for avoiding to get into the danger of having huge issues. Look at what problems Blizzard had with the start of Diablo 3, who knows how stable the servers will be so soon after the launch of HOTS. The less players, the less possible problems and all of us viewers want a professionally produced tournament. So having to choose between WoL+Open Bracket or HOTS without Open bracket is not difficult as probably 90% of people would rather see HOTS at that point.

what kind of *huge issues* are you going to have? pro gamers will still win and get through like the previous OPEN brackets, i don't understand what kind of professionalism is there.


They are no longer running open brackets at the event, but having qualifiers before hand. MLG likely booked the event space with that in mind. Since the beta is always in a state of flux, going down and has a number of issues, running a qualifier on that would be less than desirable. Even if they ran it in WoL, there would be the issue of people qualifying and then getting knocked out in the first round because they did not practice HotS, or people who are focusing on HotS not qualifying in WoL.

In the end, there was no fair way to run a qualifier for an event 3 days after HotS released. There is always the next event for people who have been throwing down hard on HotS.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
February 02 2013 15:19 GMT
#496
On February 02 2013 19:15 tshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2013 15:51 jmbthirteen wrote:
On February 01 2013 15:42 Elite_ wrote:
On February 01 2013 15:36 TheEmulator wrote:
HOTS in MLG, that sounds pretty sick

Until you read everything that MLG removed from the event compared to previous MLG events.

not really. we are getting legit HotS tournament play starting in 4 days. As someone who has been playing HotS for a few months now and isn't nearly as interested in WoL anymore, I'm rather excited. I'll miss the open bracket, but I can live without it for this one event. I get to watch Flash, Thorzain, Life, Stephano, Rain, and other gosu players in HotS.

Shit happens, you gotta deal with it. And thats what MLG is doing. You can act like a child and pout, kick and scream about it. Or you can be an adult, look at the big picture and realize, hey this is the first HotS tournament! And Flash is playing in it.

hahahaha yeah right

I'm amused sometimes at how many people come out of the woodwork to get in some kind general snide remark whenever something negative happens to organizations. The whole kicking people while they're down thing is really annoying to read.



Are you really this dumb? It's not kicking a little innocent person while they're down. MLG is a huge organization. They don't need little people on forums defending them. If we have complaints we have the right to say them.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 02 2013 15:23 GMT
#497
On February 03 2013 00:19 Glurkenspurk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 19:15 tshi wrote:
On February 01 2013 15:51 jmbthirteen wrote:
On February 01 2013 15:42 Elite_ wrote:
On February 01 2013 15:36 TheEmulator wrote:
HOTS in MLG, that sounds pretty sick

Until you read everything that MLG removed from the event compared to previous MLG events.

not really. we are getting legit HotS tournament play starting in 4 days. As someone who has been playing HotS for a few months now and isn't nearly as interested in WoL anymore, I'm rather excited. I'll miss the open bracket, but I can live without it for this one event. I get to watch Flash, Thorzain, Life, Stephano, Rain, and other gosu players in HotS.

Shit happens, you gotta deal with it. And thats what MLG is doing. You can act like a child and pout, kick and scream about it. Or you can be an adult, look at the big picture and realize, hey this is the first HotS tournament! And Flash is playing in it.

hahahaha yeah right

I'm amused sometimes at how many people come out of the woodwork to get in some kind general snide remark whenever something negative happens to organizations. The whole kicking people while they're down thing is really annoying to read.



Are you really this dumb? It's not kicking a little innocent person while they're down. MLG is a huge organization. They don't need little people on forums defending them. If we have complaints we have the right to say them.


And we people think your complains are overly entitled or just plain dumb, people have a right to say that as well. There is a growing number of people who appear to be very tired of negativity in the community.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23579 Posts
February 02 2013 15:36 GMT
#498
That post gives a lot of information, thank you Adam! But for me the only important part riight now is:

When HOTS was announced for the same weekend as our event we immediately consulted Blizzard and we mutually decided that large open competition on beta servers might not lead to the best customer experience.


I'd love to hear more about this, because I still don't understand why 3 or 4 (NA, EU, KR, SEA/International) big open qualifiers with 28 players getting trips to Dallas are not possible. Because then people would not be that mad about no open bracket.

Well it will still be an awesome event for us, the viewers, just sad for the players but it will only get better for sure!
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Darpa
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada4413 Posts
February 02 2013 15:56 GMT
#499
On February 03 2013 00:23 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2013 00:19 Glurkenspurk wrote:
On February 02 2013 19:15 tshi wrote:
On February 01 2013 15:51 jmbthirteen wrote:
On February 01 2013 15:42 Elite_ wrote:
On February 01 2013 15:36 TheEmulator wrote:
HOTS in MLG, that sounds pretty sick

Until you read everything that MLG removed from the event compared to previous MLG events.

not really. we are getting legit HotS tournament play starting in 4 days. As someone who has been playing HotS for a few months now and isn't nearly as interested in WoL anymore, I'm rather excited. I'll miss the open bracket, but I can live without it for this one event. I get to watch Flash, Thorzain, Life, Stephano, Rain, and other gosu players in HotS.

Shit happens, you gotta deal with it. And thats what MLG is doing. You can act like a child and pout, kick and scream about it. Or you can be an adult, look at the big picture and realize, hey this is the first HotS tournament! And Flash is playing in it.

hahahaha yeah right

I'm amused sometimes at how many people come out of the woodwork to get in some kind general snide remark whenever something negative happens to organizations. The whole kicking people while they're down thing is really annoying to read.



Are you really this dumb? It's not kicking a little innocent person while they're down. MLG is a huge organization. They don't need little people on forums defending them. If we have complaints we have the right to say them.


And we people think your complains are overly entitled or just plain dumb, people have a right to say that as well. There is a growing number of people who appear to be very tired of negativity in the community.



Agreed, I barely post anymore because of it.
"losers always whine about their best, Winners go home and fuck the prom queen"
FragRaptor
Profile Joined October 2010
United States184 Posts
February 02 2013 16:00 GMT
#500
Great post Adam. I for one have been looking forward to it since the announcement(gogogo root vibe). To be honest some of the comments you elaborated on in your post were horrible arguments by the people and you handled them very well.

Can't wait to see the new floor plans
Do your thing. No matter what.
Prev 1 23 24 25 26 27 28 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 24m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft698
RuFF_SC2 201
Nina 106
Trikslyr27
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 4626
Leta 221
Mind 129
ZergMaN 59
yabsab 54
Nal_rA 40
Icarus 9
sSak 6
Light 0
Counter-Strike
summit1g6687
Coldzera 955
Fnx 431
minikerr44
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King201
Other Games
JimRising 684
C9.Mang0337
ROOTCatZ165
Maynarde135
Hui .135
NeuroSwarm130
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick358
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH192
• practicex 30
• OhrlRock 2
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki18
• iopq 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2408
League of Legends
• Rush1456
• Lourlo1247
• Stunt959
• HappyZerGling59
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4h 24m
INu's Battles
5h 24m
Cure vs herO
ByuN vs Rogue
PiGosaur Cup
18h 24m
The PondCast
1d 4h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 5h
Patches Events
1d 10h
Replay Cast
2 days
CrankTV Team League
2 days
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Escore
3 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Solar vs Lambo
WardiTV Summer Champion…
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Clem vs Serral
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Summer Champion…
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4
SCTL 2026 Spring
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W5
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
Acropolis #5
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Acropolis #5 - TRS
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.