StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm™ Featured in MLG Winter Season – Details Revealed
We are excited to announce that Blizzard Entertainment’s highly anticipated StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm™ is featured in the MLG Winter Season via two invite-only competitions:
Online Winter Season Showdowns - Broadcast starts Monday, February 4 at 5pm ET
Exhibition Tournament at the Pro Circuit Winter Championship in Dallas, Texas: March 15 – 17
Online Winter Season Showdowns The invite-only, Winter Season Showdowns features 56 of the top StarCraft II players in the world playing StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm before it is released to the public on March 12. From Monday, February 4 through Friday, March 8, each weeknight, and select Sundays, at 22:00 GMT (+00:00), MLG will broadcast one Showdown at www.majorleaguegaming.com and www.twitch.tv/team/MLG. The complete broadcast schedule is available here. The 28 players who win their Showdowns will advance to an invite-only, exhibition tournament at the Winter Championship.
Exhibition Tournament at the Winter Championship The Winter Championship in Dallas, Texas, from March 15-17 will include an invite-only, 32-player, StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm exhibition tournament just days after the game is released. The 28 players who win their Winter Season Showdowns will join the top four (Life, Leenock, Flash, Bomber) from the MLG 2012 Fall Championship to compete in a single elimination bracket for $75,000 and a first place prize of $25,000.
All matches will be broadcast via two streams. Additional details about all events will be released in the coming weeks.
Note: the Winter Championship will not include an open-bracket tournament for Starcraft II.
56 of the world’s best StarCraft II players will compete in 1 Showdown Match each, playing StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm before it is released to the public on March 12.
Format: Invite-Only online matches; Winner takes all, Best of five games
Broadcast: February 4 –March 8: 28 Matches, 28 Days broadcast each weekday at 5pm ET and select Sundays online and Twitch. Schedule below and online.
Prize: The 28 winners will receive placement at the Winter Championship in Dallas from March 15-17 where they will compete with Life, Leenock, Flash and Bomber.
Monday, 2/4: Parting vs Fantasy Tuesday, 2/5: Roro vs Hero Wednesday, 2/6: Innovation vs Ty Thursday, 2/7: Soulkey vs Last Friday, 2/8: Rain vs Flying Sunday, 2/10: Sase vs Snute Monday, 2/11: Nerchio vs BabyKnight Tuesday, 2/12: Stephano vs Titan Wednesday, 2/13: Mana vs Bly Thursday, 2/14: Socke vs Thorzain Friday, 2/15: Ret vs Feast
Broadcast dates for the following matchups will be announced soon:
Grubby vs Dimaga Sen vs Moonglade MC vs Alive Taeja vs Violet Hero vs Polt Creator vs Nestea Mvp vs Curious Sniper vs Seed MarineKing vs Gumiho DongRaeGu vs Jjakji Scarlett vs Goswser Idra vs Ddoro Fenix vs State Vibe vs Illusion Suppy vs Maker Killer vs Qxc Huk vs Sasquatch
KESPA (5) - 10 KESPA players competing for 5 spots Parting vs. Fantasy Rain vs. Flying Innovation vs. TY Roro vs. Hero Soulkey vs. Last
ESF (5) - 10 ESF players competing for 5 spots DongRaeGu vs. Jjakji MarineKing vs Gumiho Mvp vs Curious Creator vs Nestea Sniper vs Seed
Independent/Western (3) - 6 Western+ Independent Korean players competing for 3 spots MC vs Alive Hero vs Polt Taeja vs Violet
North America (7) - 14 NA players competing for 7 spots Killer vs Qxc Huk vs Sasquatch Scarlett vs Goswser Idra vs Ddoro Suppy vs Maker Fenix vs State Vibe vs Illusion
Europe (7) - 14 EU players competing for 7 spots Stephano vs Titan Nerchio vs BabyKnight Mana vs Bly Grubby vs Dimaga Socke vs Thorzain Ret vs Feast Sase vs Snute
Southeast Asia (1) - 2 SEA players competing for 1 spot Sen vs Moonglade
Akilon Wastes Bifrost Cloud Kingdom Daybreak Entombed Valley Korhal City Newkirk City Ohana Planet S Star Station Whirlwind
Note: In each Showdown, both Players will veto three Maps. The Map Pool will be trimmed down to seven for the Exhibition Tournament at the Winter Championship.
Exhibition Tournament at the MLG Winter Championship + Show Spoiler +
Dates: March 15 - 17
Format: Invite-only, exhibition tournament (no open bracket) with all matches taking place on the main stage and one feature station.
32-Player Single Elimination Bracket (Bo5s & 7s) featuring:
28 Players from Winter Season Showdowns
Life, Leenock, Flash, Bomber - Top 4 Players from 2012 Fall Championship
On February 01 2013 02:02 Demonhunter04 wrote: MLG Winter starts Feb 4 and ends March 12? Isn't that spring?
This is normal. They tend to do their championships at the very end of the season of whatever it's for. Spring will be in June, summer in September, and fall in november, maybe beginning of december.
On February 01 2013 02:07 Yhamm wrote: how were the showdown done? random? Fantasy vs Parting Ret vs Feast Stephano vs Titan etc
quite unfair for some players
Its pretty obvious that they want a bunch of foreigners in so people watch. Pretty biased competition imo
The selection criteria alone was quite biased in my opinion.
Players like IEM Champion WW.Sting couldn't get an invite while players like retired exQuantic-Hawk did.
EDIT: I think it's important to note that it's completely reasonable to set the invitation criteria to "Most Popular" but at least it should be noted as "Most Popular" and not "Best"
I think I will watch it, despite there being no open bracket. An open bracket would be a bit pointless anyway imo, since not that many players will have practiced much, due to this event being just after release and not everyone having beta acces. Edit: It feels weird, seeing parting among the kespa players.
On February 01 2013 02:07 Yhamm wrote: how were the showdown done? random? Fantasy vs Parting Ret vs Feast Stephano vs Titan etc
quite unfair for some players
Its pretty obvious that they want a bunch of foreigners in so people watch. Pretty biased competition imo
It is clearly mapped out in the main story, regional qualification: + Show Spoiler +
KESPA (5) - 10 KESPA players competing for 5 spots
Parting vs. Fantasy Rain vs. Flying Innovation vs. TY Roro vs. Hero Soulkey vs. Last
ESF (5) - 10 ESF players competing for 5 spots
DongRaeGu vs. Jjakji MarineKing vs Gumiho Mvp vs Curious Creator vs Nestea Sniper vs Seed
Independent/Western (3) - 6 Western+ Independent Korean players competing for 3 spots
MC vs Alive Hero vs Polt Taeja vs Violet
North America (7) - 14 NA players competing for 7 spots
Killer vs Qxc Huk vs Sasquatch Scarlett vs Goswser Idra vs Ddoro Suppy vs Maker Fenix vs State Vibe vs Illusion
Europe (7) - 14 EU players competing for 7 spots
Stephano vs Titan Nerchio vs BabyKnight Mana vs Bly Grubby vs Dimaga Socke vs Thorzain Ret vs Feast Sase vs Snute
Southeast Asia (1) - 2 SEA players competing for 1 spot
Sen vs Moonglade
There's always going to be people who don't take the time to understand the information available or just choose to hate for no reason. Thankfully Adam is always awesome at replying to these post in good manner.
How is the showdown thing based on HOTS accomplishments? How many of those players have won a tournament or broke rank 2 GM in HOTS? As ive done both(granted small tournament but w/e there isnt much atm MLG is the first big event for it lol)... Just seems like claiming " top StarCraft II players in the world based on recent performances playing StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm" is kind of flawed and its just a sheer invitational everyone that's popular or did well in MLG with WoL with that player list.
regardless was expecting for some form of announcement to make up for the lack of open bracket, And as a competitor what is my Gold membership now useful for? As clearly I cant compete or sign up for anything now... making my gold relatively useless.
I'm not sure beta is in a good enough place balance wise for a major tournament yet although the championship will of course be played when the game is actually on live servers.
It's going to be exciting though that's for sure but there's guaranteed to be some frustrating games played as well. The volatility is bound to be high for a tournament like this.
I hope this is a one time thing somehow related to HOTS just being released, Following the open brackets was always my favorite part of the MLG, even if I wasnt participating.
I may check this one out, but looking forward to future events with open brackets
Invite only, hmm. Looks like IPL will be taking up the mantle of a tournament that wants "e-sports to make it."
This invite only bullshit gets old fast. This will stay a niche thing if organizations try and go this invite only route for "quick views" rather than actually building up the player base.
While me, and you here, and the hardcore might enjoy watching top koreans duke it out...guess what the outsider sees from their point of view?
"Oh yeah SC? I've heard of that, those asian guys play it a lot, same ones win all the time. Hey, there's a Raven's game this sunday, let's go see that."
Oh wells, we all heard IPL has an open bracket we can be interested in
Seems a bit limited having only invites, but I guess it keeps the quality of players at a higher level. Some cool matches are in the wings though, so I'm definitely watching.
Not sure about this. The format does sound pretty awesome, but I will miss the open bracket.
I can easily see why they wanted to get rid of the open bracket though. That many players and games is just a pain in the ass for players and the organizers and even the caster. This way every match will get broadcasted and the players won't be rushing from match to match in a 12-14 hour sprint for the open bracket days. Single elim = no more retarded extended series etc.
All in all I like this by MLG even though as a spectator missing the open bracket kind of sucks but meh.
IPL sends my team a personal message inviting us to a competition. MLG becomes invite only for the FIRST tourament of HotS where break out players are even more likely to happen. This is going to great isn't it! At least we don't have to watch new players we don't know.
On February 01 2013 02:17 AGIANTSMURF wrote: I hope this is a one time thing somehow related to HOTS just being released, Following the open brackets was always my favorite part of the MLG, even if I wasnt participating.
I may check this one out, but looking forward to future events with open brackets
Probably is because they dont some random guy to win the whole thing by exploiting the unknown of HoTS
On February 01 2013 02:21 MLG_Adam wrote: We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
By stability, you mean the possibility that top players may be knocked by up and comers, correct? We can't have that, now can we.
This invite only bullshit delegitimizes the tournament quite a bit imo.
On February 01 2013 02:16 KiF1rE wrote: How is the showdown thing based on HOTS accomplishments? How many of those players have won a tournament or broke rank 2 GM in HOTS? As ive done both(granted small tournament but w/e there isnt much atm MLG is the first big event for it lol)... Just seems like claiming " top StarCraft II players in the world based on recent performances playing StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm" is kind of flawed and its just a sheer invitational everyone that's popular or did well in MLG with WoL with that player list.
regardless was expecting for some form of announcement to make up for the lack of open bracket, And as a competitor what is my Gold membership now useful for? As clearly I cant compete or sign up for anything now... making my gold relatively useless.
So because you made GM in a beta where none of the top SC2 players in the world are playing, because, well, it's a friggin beta and they have actual tournaments to play and practice for, you think you deserve to get invited to a tournament with a 25K 1st place prize? Seriously?...
You think the reason this tournament exists, the people who will actually tune in to watch, would rather watch you than DRG or Flash? You think we care whether they ever got GM in HotS, or won a HotS tournament?
On February 01 2013 02:21 MLG_Adam wrote: We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
i guess its a shitty situation. you kinda need to do hots. but no open qualification system really destroys the value of the tournament. invites are always random.
On February 01 2013 02:17 AGIANTSMURF wrote: I hope this is a one time thing somehow related to HOTS just being released, Following the open brackets was always my favorite part of the MLG, even if I wasnt participating.
I may check this one out, but looking forward to future events with open brackets
Probably is because they dont want some random guy to win the whole thing by exploiting the unknown of HoTS
I'm so tired of these kind of things, format is so boring. No open qualifiers kills it for me.
Nothing against the players, it's just the selection process being MLG-esque, if you did it somewhat after results you could get players who are more competitive than e.g. Ret for example, this way it's just riding fame and rewarding players who were on teams able to send them to MLGs in the previous years, it's like 2011 pool play all over again.
I'd rather have the best players right now, not the players who were kinda good early 2012 in the artificial environment MLG created back then.
Keep in mind that the whole "no open bracket"-thing is not confirmed for the rest of the year, only the Winter Championhip. And I find it quite amusing how upset some middling foreign players are over this change. The open brackets were mostly slaughterhouses either way, with only top foreigners sometimes breaking through to die in the group stages. Of course, I absolutely understand the frustration of not being able to play at all with this being mostly invite-only, but all-in-all this won't make that much of a difference.
On February 01 2013 02:21 MLG_Adam wrote: We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
By stability, you mean the possibility that top players may be knocked by up and comers, correct?
Why would we care about that? We want aspiration and our track record proves that. There were MANY factors involved around this Dallas event that hampered things we wanted to do.
On February 01 2013 02:21 MLG_Adam wrote: We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
By stability, you mean the possibility that top players may be knocked by up and comers, correct?
Why would we care about that? We want aspiration and our track record proves that. There were MANY factors involved around this Dallas event that hampered things we wanted to do.
Why would you care about that? Pretty obvious, if big names are knocked out you guys believe it will hamper your tournament views. Can't have lil ol' johnny ladder knocking out a big name, that would hurt e-sports now wouldn't it!
The ironic thing is, I think a lot of people would tune into amazing stories like, "omg did you hear? He beat flash, it was crazy," etc.
On February 01 2013 02:16 KiF1rE wrote: How is the showdown thing based on HOTS accomplishments? How many of those players have won a tournament or broke rank 2 GM in HOTS? As ive done both(granted small tournament but w/e there isnt much atm MLG is the first big event for it lol)... Just seems like claiming " top StarCraft II players in the world based on recent performances playing StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm" is kind of flawed and its just a sheer invitational everyone that's popular or did well in MLG with WoL with that player list.
regardless was expecting for some form of announcement to make up for the lack of open bracket, And as a competitor what is my Gold membership now useful for? As clearly I cant compete or sign up for anything now... making my gold relatively useless.
So because you made GM in a beta where none of the top SC2 players in the world are playing, because, well, it's a friggin beta and they have actual tournaments to play and practice for, you think you deserve to get invited to a tournament with a 25K 1st place prize? Seriously?...
You think the reason this tournament exists, the people who will actually tune in to watch, would rather watch you than DRG or Flash? You think we care whether they ever got GM in HotS, or won a HotS tournament?
Get over yourself...
well they claimed based on hots accomplishments, you should read your own post and mine again, as you just said why I laughed at HOTS accomplishments, No one has any, I even said it in my post and people were busy playing WoL, therefore if its based on HOTS accomplishments tons of players are more qualified than every one invited, just the way the world works. Viewers is not about competition, determining the best is competition! not inviting a bunch of players and making a false claim that they have accomplished something in HOTS.
On February 01 2013 02:26 MLG_Adam wrote: However, bottom line is we're happy with what we've put together and we look forward to announcing more details around the rest of our plans for 2013.
and hopefully they are alot better than this for players like me... Was really looking forward to heading to dallas and other MLG events this year.
Kind of sad that HwangSin placed higher than every independent/foreign team Korean invited to the showmatches at last MLG and gets no invite. Pretty clear that this is obviously based on who is the most famous rather than any actual qualifications. Not that those players are undeserving, but...
edit: Well he placed same as TaeJa I suppose, so sorry - but my point stands.
On February 01 2013 02:16 KiF1rE wrote: How is the showdown thing based on HOTS accomplishments? How many of those players have won a tournament or broke rank 2 GM in HOTS? As ive done both(granted small tournament but w/e there isnt much atm MLG is the first big event for it lol)... Just seems like claiming " top StarCraft II players in the world based on recent performances playing StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm" is kind of flawed and its just a sheer invitational everyone that's popular or did well in MLG with WoL with that player list.
regardless was expecting for some form of announcement to make up for the lack of open bracket, And as a competitor what is my Gold membership now useful for? As clearly I cant compete or sign up for anything now... making my gold relatively useless.
So because you made GM in a beta where none of the top SC2 players in the world are playing, because, well, it's a friggin beta and they have actual tournaments to play and practice for, you think you deserve to get invited to a tournament with a 25K 1st place prize? Seriously?...
You think the reason this tournament exists, the people who will actually tune in to watch, would rather watch you than DRG or Flash? You think we care whether they ever got GM in HotS, or won a HotS tournament?
Get over yourself...
well they claimed based on hots accomplishments, you should read your own post and mine again, as you just said why I laughed at HOTS accomplishments, No one has any, I even said it in my post and people were busy playing WoL, therefore if its based on HOTS accomplishments tons of players are more qualified than every one invited, just the way the world works. Viewers is not about competition, determining the best is competition! not inviting a bunch of players and making a false claim that they have accomplished something in HOTS.
Determining the best? You seriously think you're better than any of the players there? You could practice HotS for 100 years and DRG would beat you the first time he logged on, get over yourself.
On February 01 2013 02:28 Pokebunny wrote: Kind of sad that HwangSin placed higher than every independent/foreign team Korean invited to the showmatches at last MLG and gets no invite. Pretty clear that this is obviously based on who is the most famous rather than any actual qualifications. Not that those players are undeserving, but...
That would be because the way the invite criteria work wasn't event RESULTS, it was event PARTICIPATION. This means that players that might not be placing as HIGHLY as other players get invited simply because the team they play for can afford to send them to more events.
That is just brutal. the 2 best na players (imo) against each other. I guess you dont want to do a whole lot of qualification matches but at least put each region in a bracket. :/
On February 01 2013 02:21 MLG_Adam wrote: We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
By stability, you mean the possibility that top players may be knocked by up and comers, correct?
Why would we care about that? We want aspiration and our track record proves that. There were MANY factors involved around this Dallas event that hampered things we wanted to do.
Why would you care about that? Pretty obvious, if big names are knocked out you guys believe it will hamper your tournament views. Can't have lil ol' johnny ladder knocking out a big name, that would hurt e-sports now wouldn't it!
The ironic thing is, I think a lot of people would tune into amazing stories like, "omg did you hear? He beat flash, it was crazy," etc.
If they don't want unknowns in their Championships, why hasn't the Open Bracket format been removed much earlier? To me, this seems more like a one-off thing based on a variety of factors (with your primary reason being a very minor one) than anything else.
On February 01 2013 02:21 MLG_Adam wrote: We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
By stability, you mean the possibility that top players may be knocked by up and comers, correct?
Why would we care about that? We want aspiration and our track record proves that. There were MANY factors involved around this Dallas event that hampered things we wanted to do.
Why would you care about that? Pretty obvious, if big names are knocked out you guys believe it will hamper your tournament views. Can't have lil ol' johnny ladder knocking out a big name, that would hurt e-sports now wouldn't it!
The ironic thing is, I think a lot of people would tune into amazing stories like, "omg did you hear? He beat flash, it was crazy," etc.
Shouldn't you be busy making a balance whine thread or something? Invite only for an unstable game that's still in beta is more then reasonable... They obviously are aware that up and comers and their open bracket can draw just as many viewers as big names.. They are not retarded.
On February 01 2013 02:16 KiF1rE wrote: How is the showdown thing based on HOTS accomplishments? How many of those players have won a tournament or broke rank 2 GM in HOTS? As ive done both(granted small tournament but w/e there isnt much atm MLG is the first big event for it lol)... Just seems like claiming " top StarCraft II players in the world based on recent performances playing StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm" is kind of flawed and its just a sheer invitational everyone that's popular or did well in MLG with WoL with that player list.
regardless was expecting for some form of announcement to make up for the lack of open bracket, And as a competitor what is my Gold membership now useful for? As clearly I cant compete or sign up for anything now... making my gold relatively useless.
So because you made GM in a beta where none of the top SC2 players in the world are playing, because, well, it's a friggin beta and they have actual tournaments to play and practice for, you think you deserve to get invited to a tournament with a 25K 1st place prize? Seriously?...
You think the reason this tournament exists, the people who will actually tune in to watch, would rather watch you than DRG or Flash? You think we care whether they ever got GM in HotS, or won a HotS tournament?
Get over yourself...
well they claimed based on hots accomplishments, you should read your own post and mine again, as you just said why I laughed at HOTS accomplishments, No one has any, I even said it in my post and people were busy playing WoL, therefore if its based on HOTS accomplishments tons of players are more qualified than every one invited, just the way the world works. Viewers is not about competition, determining the best is competition! not inviting a bunch of players and making a false claim that they have accomplished something in HOTS.
On February 01 2013 02:26 MLG_Adam wrote: However, bottom line is we're happy with what we've put together and we look forward to announcing more details around the rest of our plans for 2013.
and hopefully they are alot better than this for players like me... Was really looking forward to heading to dallas and other MLG events this year.
I don't think KiF1rE is trying to claim he deserves an invite, rather that their system is rather arbitrary and bullshit.
On February 01 2013 02:28 Pokebunny wrote: Kind of sad that HwangSin placed higher than every independent/foreign team Korean invited to the showmatches at last MLG and gets no invite. Pretty clear that this is obviously based on who is the most famous rather than any actual qualifications. Not that those players are undeserving, but...
That would be because the way the invite criteria work wasn't event RESULTS, it was event PARTICIPATION. This means that players that might not be placing as HIGHLY as other players get invited simply because the team they play for can afford to send them to more events.
So he went to an arena and three of the four championship events...
Again. We want aspiration, we want open qualification, we want success stories, how can you say anything different based on our track record?
This event is 3 days after a major content release. Qualification is taking place on BETA servers. We wanted to have open online qualification for this event but it was not a logistical reality.
We are not done announcing 2013 plans. Have faith.
people should start thinking, before they post any more bullshit here. MLG invited players that are proven through the highest competitions we had so far in SC2. And you want some random ladder dudes being invited or qualified here, because these PRO GAMERS still have their duties in WoL right now and are not playing HotS very much? You really believe the likes of Flash, Parting, Creator, Leenock, Marineking, Life and so on will be worse with HotS? This is an invitational and the reasons for that are very much understandable. The new comers in HotS will have to wait until the real tournaments kick off and should not whine here.
On February 01 2013 02:28 Pokebunny wrote: Kind of sad that HwangSin placed higher than every independent/foreign team Korean invited to the showmatches at last MLG and gets no invite. Pretty clear that this is obviously based on who is the most famous rather than any actual qualifications. Not that those players are undeserving, but...
That would be because the way the invite criteria work wasn't event RESULTS, it was event PARTICIPATION. This means that players that might not be placing as HIGHLY as other players get invited simply because the team they play for can afford to send them to more events.
So he went to an arena and three of the four championship events...
It doesn't matter.
He missed every single European Major that
MC vs Alive Hero vs Polt Taeja vs Violet
All 6 of these attended.
To be fair I don't even see why aLive/MC/HerO/TaeJa are even in this category considering they've lived in Korea this whole time to begin with.
Seems like nobody realizes this is a one time thing because of the transition to HotS. Saying things like "I wont watch because there is no open bracket" is dumb. You watch every other tournament that doesn't have an open bracket. This is an exhibition, not a regular MLG event. It's basically a promotion of HotS with some of the best players in the world in order to hype up the game. MLG Spring will go back to a more standard format I'm sure.
On February 01 2013 02:28 Pokebunny wrote: Kind of sad that HwangSin placed higher than every independent/foreign team Korean invited to the showmatches at last MLG and gets no invite. Pretty clear that this is obviously based on who is the most famous rather than any actual qualifications. Not that those players are undeserving, but...
That would be because the way the invite criteria work wasn't event RESULTS, it was event PARTICIPATION. This means that players that might not be placing as HIGHLY as other players get invited simply because the team they play for can afford to send them to more events.
So he went to an arena and three of the four championship events...
It doesn't matter.
He missed every single European Major that
MC vs Alive Hero vs Polt Taeja vs Violet
All 6 of these attended.
To be fair I don't even see why aLive/MC/HerO/TaeJa are even in this category considering they've lived in Korea this whole time to begin with.
Because they are in their own category of bringing in views is my guess. They can guarantee 3 western team Koreans to make the event instead of risking 0 by doing just pure korean qualifier games
I love it. People complain about anything. Here we have the best players in the world from all over the world in a format that will provide great matches, balance of invitations from regions, and it is just days after the game is released and people are upset because no open bracket?
If they did the open bracket and didn't do invites people would complain that the competition isn't any good and where are the Koreans, because how many people are going to travel a long way to compete through an open bracket for a game they might have only practiced sparingly?
I feel like being an e-Sports organizer is the most frustrating thing ever, no matter what you do you can't win.
I enjoy a wide variety of events. Some invite events are great, some open brackets are great, variety is the spice of life. You are getting 32 well known players competing for a boatload of money 2 weeks after the release of an expansion... how about some perspective? Perhaps they should run no tournament and wait 6 months after the release of the expansion, is that better?
On February 01 2013 02:21 MLG_Adam wrote: We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
Is that necessarily so bad though? I always felt that the most interesting part of MLG was the idea that someone (possibly a no-name player) could make a legendary run through the open bracket and take it all through the championships. It doesn't matter if he's not a Korean (or not a he!). That made us love Naniwa when it happened, and these things just don't happen anymore, because of how stacked the brackets tend to be anyway.
Not really happy with this decision, but I'm sure these games are going to be good anyway.
On February 01 2013 02:28 Pokebunny wrote: Kind of sad that HwangSin placed higher than every independent/foreign team Korean invited to the showmatches at last MLG and gets no invite. Pretty clear that this is obviously based on who is the most famous rather than any actual qualifications. Not that those players are undeserving, but...
That would be because the way the invite criteria work wasn't event RESULTS, it was event PARTICIPATION. This means that players that might not be placing as HIGHLY as other players get invited simply because the team they play for can afford to send them to more events.
So he went to an arena and three of the four championship events...
It doesn't matter.
He missed every single European Major that
MC vs Alive Hero vs Polt Taeja vs Violet
All 6 of these attended.
To be fair I don't even see why aLive/MC/HerO/TaeJa are even in this category considering they've lived in Korea this whole time to begin with.
I believe that category is for players on korean teams that aren't in ESF or KESPA.
We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
I could live with that explanation if you actually had no online matches at all, but as you actually do online matches including players outside the USA (for which latency will be terrible) and there is a lot of time until march 15th, it's really a strange thing you came up with. Latency is really bad outside US but stability seems good enough.
And if you don't want people to be upset, why don't you flat out say that there will be an open bracket again in the events thereafter instead of saying you will announce more later.
On February 01 2013 02:21 MLG_Adam wrote: We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
Is that necessarily so bad though? I always felt that the most interesting part of MLG was the idea that someone (possibly a no-name player) could make a legendary run through the open bracket and take it all through the championships. It doesn't matter if he's not a Korean (or not a he!). That made us love Naniwa when it happened, and these things just don't happen anymore, because of how stacked the brackets tend to be anyway.
Not really happy with this decision, but I'm sure these games are going to be good anyway.
I think by stability they mean server stability and it going down all the time for patches etc. For example there could easily be multiple patches in the middle of the tourney changing the gameplay dramatically.
On February 01 2013 02:28 Pokebunny wrote: Kind of sad that HwangSin placed higher than every independent/foreign team Korean invited to the showmatches at last MLG and gets no invite. Pretty clear that this is obviously based on who is the most famous rather than any actual qualifications. Not that those players are undeserving, but...
That would be because the way the invite criteria work wasn't event RESULTS, it was event PARTICIPATION. This means that players that might not be placing as HIGHLY as other players get invited simply because the team they play for can afford to send them to more events.
So he went to an arena and three of the four championship events...
It doesn't matter.
He missed every single European Major that
MC vs Alive Hero vs Polt Taeja vs Violet
All 6 of these attended.
To be fair I don't even see why aLive/MC/HerO/TaeJa are even in this category considering they've lived in Korea this whole time to begin with.
I believe that category is for players on korean teams that aren't in ESF or KESPA.
On February 01 2013 02:39 MateShade wrote: I'm not watching an invite only tournament. I don't understand this mlg, makes 0 sense why can't they just have one last normal WoL one
Actually, it does make sense. HOTS is out by the time this tournament comes around. People will have switched over to HOTS. IPL6 is doing WoL, and people aren't exactly happy with that.
The fans asked for foreigner affirmative action and we got it. The regional system guarantees that more foreigners qualify for the winter championship. If you mixed everyone together, it's not inconceivable to have 25 Koreans and 3 foreigners come out.
On February 01 2013 02:33 MLG_Adam wrote: Again. We want aspiration, we want open qualification, we want success stories, how can you say anything different based on our track record?
This event is 3 days after a major content release. Qualification is taking place on BETA servers. We wanted to have open online qualification for this event but it was not a logistical reality.
We are not done announcing 2013 plans. Have faith.
Then why not make open online qualifiers, you've got invite only qualifiers, or "Showdown", basically how is that any different from holding a mass open online qualifier bracket?? They can be done on the same day as your planned "Showdown" times to qualify? Or even better yet why not have asked the viewers, your patrons in a poll what they would like to see?
We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
I could live with that explanation if you actually had no online matches at all, but as you actually do online matches including players outside the USA (for which latency will be terrible) and a lot of time until march 15th, it's really a strange thing you came up with.
And if you don't want people to be upset, why don't you flat out say that there will be an open bracket again in the events thereafter instead of saying you will announce more later.
We are working very closely with Blizzard to ensure that the specific days that qualifying matches are happening that servers are stable and ready. That was not possible with a large open bracket across multiple regions spanning a long period of time.
I dont mind the people that they invited, its just that some people like Hwangsin who did really well last MLG, DID NOT EVEN GET ONE stage match. And now he doesnt even get an invite, that is so fucking biased. Either way- I will probably still attend the event -.-
On February 01 2013 02:28 Pokebunny wrote: Kind of sad that HwangSin placed higher than every independent/foreign team Korean invited to the showmatches at last MLG and gets no invite. Pretty clear that this is obviously based on who is the most famous rather than any actual qualifications. Not that those players are undeserving, but...
That would be because the way the invite criteria work wasn't event RESULTS, it was event PARTICIPATION. This means that players that might not be placing as HIGHLY as other players get invited simply because the team they play for can afford to send them to more events.
So he went to an arena and three of the four championship events...
It doesn't matter.
He missed every single European Major that
MC vs Alive Hero vs Polt Taeja vs Violet
All 6 of these attended.
To be fair I don't even see why aLive/MC/HerO/TaeJa are even in this category considering they've lived in Korea this whole time to begin with.
And who should they have invited instead? Hwangsin and Jookto? 2 of the players on that list are in Code S, 2 are in Code A, the other two have more accomplishments in SC2 in the last few months alone, than Hwangsin and Jookto have had in their entire careers. If I as a viewer am going to pay to watch a tournament, who do you think I want to see in the category of Koreans on foreigner teams?
Invite only kind of removes a lot of excitement. I'm glad that some sort of qualification process for future tournaments is being hinted at in the thread, so I'm looking forward to future events for that.
It is true that having a huge qualifier on a just released game is asking for trouble.
On February 01 2013 02:21 MLG_Adam wrote: We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
Is that necessarily so bad though? I always felt that the most interesting part of MLG was the idea that someone (possibly a no-name player) could make a legendary run through the open bracket and take it all through the championships. It doesn't matter if he's not a Korean (or not a he!). That made us love Naniwa when it happened, and these things just don't happen anymore, because of how stacked the brackets tend to be anyway.
Not really happy with this decision, but I'm sure these games are going to be good anyway.
I think by stability they mean server stability and it going down all the time for patches etc. For example there could easily be multiple patches in the middle of the tourney changing the gameplay dramatically.
Ah, I see. I don't understand why that reason would affect the single MLG weekend for an open bracket then. Blizzard is pretty mindful with not patching during tournament weekends, and even if Blizzard did screw up and patch on March 15-17, the pro-gamers who were invited would still be screwed.
On February 01 2013 02:16 KiF1rE wrote: How is the showdown thing based on HOTS accomplishments? How many of those players have won a tournament or broke rank 2 GM in HOTS? As ive done both(granted small tournament but w/e there isnt much atm MLG is the first big event for it lol)... Just seems like claiming " top StarCraft II players in the world based on recent performances playing StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm" is kind of flawed and its just a sheer invitational everyone that's popular or did well in MLG with WoL with that player list.
regardless was expecting for some form of announcement to make up for the lack of open bracket, And as a competitor what is my Gold membership now useful for? As clearly I cant compete or sign up for anything now... making my gold relatively useless.
On February 01 2013 02:28 Pokebunny wrote: Kind of sad that HwangSin placed higher than every independent/foreign team Korean invited to the showmatches at last MLG and gets no invite. Pretty clear that this is obviously based on who is the most famous rather than any actual qualifications. Not that those players are undeserving, but...
That would be because the way the invite criteria work wasn't event RESULTS, it was event PARTICIPATION. This means that players that might not be placing as HIGHLY as other players get invited simply because the team they play for can afford to send them to more events.
So he went to an arena and three of the four championship events...
It doesn't matter.
He missed every single European Major that
MC vs Alive Hero vs Polt Taeja vs Violet
All 6 of these attended.
To be fair I don't even see why aLive/MC/HerO/TaeJa are even in this category considering they've lived in Korea this whole time to begin with.
And who should they have invited instead? Hwangsin and Jookto? 2 of the players on that list are in Code S, 2 are in Code A, the other two have more accomplishments in SC2 in the last few months alone, than Hwangsin and Jookto have had in their entire careers. If I as a viewer am going to pay to watch a tournament, who do you think I want to see in the category of Koreans on foreigner teams?
I was just thinking since the category is titled "Independent/Western (3) - 6 Western + Independent Korean players"
There's nothing "Western" about putting a jersey on and staying in Korea. I would think the category lends itself to Korean players who leave Korea to live abroad:
We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
I could live with that explanation if you actually had no online matches at all, but as you actually do online matches including players outside the USA (for which latency will be terrible) and a lot of time until march 15th, it's really a strange thing you came up with.
And if you don't want people to be upset, why don't you flat out say that there will be an open bracket again in the events thereafter instead of saying you will announce more later.
We are working very closely with Blizzard to ensure that the specific days that qualifying matches are happening that servers are stable and ready. That was not possible with a large open bracket across multiple regions spanning a long period of time.
Adam, I agree with everything you are saying and it might be a nightmare trying to set up an event 3 days after the release of HotS. The only thing worse than not having an Open Bracket would be trying to run one and having it crash and burn because of some problem with HotS that is beyond your control. I glad to hear you guys are focusing on putting on the highest quality show possible for HotS, rather than assuming that it will all just work day one.
Though I respect that people are disappointed, there are limits to what these MLG can do with HotS being released 3 days befor the event. It is only one event and rather than being upset that the open bracket isn't there, folks should be reassured that MLG is taking the time to make sure we get a smooth show.
Without an open bracket I feel half the point of MLG is gone. I'm not sure if I'll tune in at all, but we'll see. It's still a stacked tournament with some badass names, but I still feel IPL is the better option for me. At least right now.
On February 01 2013 02:28 Pokebunny wrote: Kind of sad that HwangSin placed higher than every independent/foreign team Korean invited to the showmatches at last MLG and gets no invite. Pretty clear that this is obviously based on who is the most famous rather than any actual qualifications. Not that those players are undeserving, but...
That would be because the way the invite criteria work wasn't event RESULTS, it was event PARTICIPATION. This means that players that might not be placing as HIGHLY as other players get invited simply because the team they play for can afford to send them to more events.
So he went to an arena and three of the four championship events...
It doesn't matter.
He missed every single European Major that
MC vs Alive Hero vs Polt Taeja vs Violet
All 6 of these attended.
To be fair I don't even see why aLive/MC/HerO/TaeJa are even in this category considering they've lived in Korea this whole time to begin with.
And who should they have invited instead? Hwangsin and Jookto? 2 of the players on that list are in Code S, 2 are in Code A, the other two have more accomplishments in SC2 in the last few months alone, than Hwangsin and Jookto have had in their entire careers. If I as a viewer am going to pay to watch a tournament, who do you think I want to see in the category of Koreans on foreigner teams?
I was just thinking since the category is titled "Independent/Western (3) - 6 Western + Independent Korean players"
There's nothing "Western" about putting a jersey on and staying in Korea. I would think the category lends itself to Korean players who leave Korea to live abroad:
Otherwise why don't we just title it "Make sure TeamLiquid's Koreans can get to MLG Category"
Of the players on your list, only those on your team, Violet and Polt are now living in the US, all the rest are in Korea, aren't they? Didn't Hwangsin, theStC, Puma and JYP just play in the Code A qualifiers? Violet and Polt are already invited. So that leaves only your players. You can run a poll and ask how many people want to see Yong instead of MC, I doubt it'll turn out in your favor though.
Wish I didn't have to play Scarlett lol. I think they should have done round robin for each region, so the top players from each region would qualify for the event.
On February 01 2013 02:59 goswser wrote: Wish I didn't have to play Scarlett lol. I think they should have done round robin for each region, so the top players from each region would qualify for the event.
On February 01 2013 02:21 MLG_Adam wrote: We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
Is that necessarily so bad though? I always felt that the most interesting part of MLG was the idea that someone (possibly a no-name player) could make a legendary run through the open bracket and take it all through the championships. It doesn't matter if he's not a Korean (or not a he!). That made us love Naniwa when it happened, and these things just don't happen anymore, because of how stacked the brackets tend to be anyway.
Not really happy with this decision, but I'm sure these games are going to be good anyway.
I think by stability they mean server stability and it going down all the time for patches etc. For example there could easily be multiple patches in the middle of the tourney changing the gameplay dramatically.
Ah, I see. I don't understand why that reason would affect the single MLG weekend for an open bracket then. Blizzard is pretty mindful with not patching during tournament weekends, and even if Blizzard did screw up and patch on March 15-17, the pro-gamers who were invited would still be screwed.
They seem to be going for online open brackets this year that take place at an earlier time than the main event. I guess they send all the winners out to the main event after that.
On February 01 2013 02:28 Pokebunny wrote: Kind of sad that HwangSin placed higher than every independent/foreign team Korean invited to the showmatches at last MLG and gets no invite. Pretty clear that this is obviously based on who is the most famous rather than any actual qualifications. Not that those players are undeserving, but...
That would be because the way the invite criteria work wasn't event RESULTS, it was event PARTICIPATION. This means that players that might not be placing as HIGHLY as other players get invited simply because the team they play for can afford to send them to more events.
So he went to an arena and three of the four championship events...
It doesn't matter.
He missed every single European Major that
MC vs Alive Hero vs Polt Taeja vs Violet
All 6 of these attended.
To be fair I don't even see why aLive/MC/HerO/TaeJa are even in this category considering they've lived in Korea this whole time to begin with.
And who should they have invited instead? Hwangsin and Jookto? 2 of the players on that list are in Code S, 2 are in Code A, the other two have more accomplishments in SC2 in the last few months alone, than Hwangsin and Jookto have had in their entire careers. If I as a viewer am going to pay to watch a tournament, who do you think I want to see in the category of Koreans on foreigner teams?
I was just thinking since the category is titled "Independent/Western (3) - 6 Western + Independent Korean players"
There's nothing "Western" about putting a jersey on and staying in Korea. I would think the category lends itself to Korean players who leave Korea to live abroad:
Otherwise why don't we just title it "Make sure TeamLiquid's Koreans can get to MLG Category"
Of the players on your list, only those on your team, Violet and Polt are now living in the US, all the rest are in Korea, aren't they? Didn't Hwangsin, theStC, Puma and JYP just play in the Code A qualifiers? Violet and Polt are already invited. So that leaves only your players. You can run a poll and ask how many people want to see Yong instead of MC, I doubt it'll turn out in your favor though.
Their invitation criteria stipulated it accounted for the entire 2012 Season, so I did the same with my list.
I just don't see the point in a separate category for a player like MC who lives in a Korean eSF Team House unless we're labeling it the "Popularity Contest" category.
darn, not as excited as i am about open brackets. i guess thanks adam for giving your reasoning for the invite only...but let's please not ever do it again. beta stability shouldn't be an issue in the future, and you know that the fans like the open bracket. hopefully spring MLG will bring about a lot of deserving up and comers that deserve some shots.
some players that weren't invited, put in a LOT of time to HotS and imo should have been invited. with that said, some people here are taking it way too personally. stop attacking eachother plz and let's just enjoy the show :D...i really hope the invite only thing never happens again.
one example of a player that has put in too much passion into HotS since the early stages that i don't see on here is white-ra. like, i think more should have been put into who got invited to this thing. either way i'm watching <3
On February 01 2013 02:21 MLG_Adam wrote: We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
Is that necessarily so bad though? I always felt that the most interesting part of MLG was the idea that someone (possibly a no-name player) could make a legendary run through the open bracket and take it all through the championships. It doesn't matter if he's not a Korean (or not a he!). That made us love Naniwa when it happened, and these things just don't happen anymore, because of how stacked the brackets tend to be anyway.
Not really happy with this decision, but I'm sure these games are going to be good anyway.
I think by stability they mean server stability and it going down all the time for patches etc. For example there could easily be multiple patches in the middle of the tourney changing the gameplay dramatically.
Ah, I see. I don't understand why that reason would affect the single MLG weekend for an open bracket then. Blizzard is pretty mindful with not patching during tournament weekends, and even if Blizzard did screw up and patch on March 15-17, the pro-gamers who were invited would still be screwed.
They seem to be going for online open brackets this year that take place at an earlier time than the main event. I guess they send all the winners out to the main event after that.
Running the open bracket during the event was madness. It might have made sense earlier, but not now. I am glad they are going to remove it from the main event and have a more streamlined show.
On February 01 2013 03:01 goswser wrote: This map pool is also a horrible joke. Most of the HOTS maps are so bad none of them are fit for competition.
If they used any of the current maps that I have seen 2000 games on, I would not watch. They need new maps for a new game. After that, we can decide what is balanced for not with all the changes.
On February 01 2013 03:01 goswser wrote: This map pool is also a horrible joke. Most of the HOTS maps are so bad none of them are fit for competition.
If they used any of the current maps that I have seen 2000 games on, I would not watch. They need new maps for a new game. After that, we can decide what is balanced for not with all the changes.
On February 01 2013 03:01 goswser wrote: This map pool is also a horrible joke. Most of the HOTS maps are so bad none of them are fit for competition.
If they used any of the current maps that I have seen 2000 games on, I would not watch. They need new maps for a new game. After that, we can decide what is balanced for not with all the changes.
New maps is great. But I think when looking at the new HOTS maps it is obvious a lot of them are just to test new concepts, and aren't made to be balanced maps.
On February 01 2013 02:28 Pokebunny wrote: Kind of sad that HwangSin placed higher than every independent/foreign team Korean invited to the showmatches at last MLG and gets no invite. Pretty clear that this is obviously based on who is the most famous rather than any actual qualifications. Not that those players are undeserving, but...
That would be because the way the invite criteria work wasn't event RESULTS, it was event PARTICIPATION. This means that players that might not be placing as HIGHLY as other players get invited simply because the team they play for can afford to send them to more events.
So he went to an arena and three of the four championship events...
It doesn't matter.
He missed every single European Major that
MC vs Alive Hero vs Polt Taeja vs Violet
All 6 of these attended.
To be fair I don't even see why aLive/MC/HerO/TaeJa are even in this category considering they've lived in Korea this whole time to begin with.
And who should they have invited instead? Hwangsin and Jookto? 2 of the players on that list are in Code S, 2 are in Code A, the other two have more accomplishments in SC2 in the last few months alone, than Hwangsin and Jookto have had in their entire careers. If I as a viewer am going to pay to watch a tournament, who do you think I want to see in the category of Koreans on foreigner teams?
I was just thinking since the category is titled "Independent/Western (3) - 6 Western + Independent Korean players"
There's nothing "Western" about putting a jersey on and staying in Korea. I would think the category lends itself to Korean players who leave Korea to live abroad:
Otherwise why don't we just title it "Make sure TeamLiquid's Koreans can get to MLG Category"
Of the players on your list, only those on your team, Violet and Polt are now living in the US, all the rest are in Korea, aren't they? Didn't Hwangsin, theStC, Puma and JYP just play in the Code A qualifiers? Violet and Polt are already invited. So that leaves only your players. You can run a poll and ask how many people want to see Yong instead of MC, I doubt it'll turn out in your favor though.
Their invitation criteria stipulated it accounted for the entire 2012 Season, so I did the same with my list.
I just don't see the point in a separate category for a player like MC who lives in a Korean eSF Team House unless we're labeling it the "Popularity Contest" category.
It's all a popularity contest. I find it even funnier that Hyun didn't get an invite... lol.
On February 01 2013 02:21 MLG_Adam wrote: We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
Is that necessarily so bad though? I always felt that the most interesting part of MLG was the idea that someone (possibly a no-name player) could make a legendary run through the open bracket and take it all through the championships. It doesn't matter if he's not a Korean (or not a he!). That made us love Naniwa when it happened, and these things just don't happen anymore, because of how stacked the brackets tend to be anyway.
Not really happy with this decision, but I'm sure these games are going to be good anyway.
I think by stability they mean server stability and it going down all the time for patches etc. For example there could easily be multiple patches in the middle of the tourney changing the gameplay dramatically.
Ah, I see. I don't understand why that reason would affect the single MLG weekend for an open bracket then. Blizzard is pretty mindful with not patching during tournament weekends, and even if Blizzard did screw up and patch on March 15-17, the pro-gamers who were invited would still be screwed.
They seem to be going for online open brackets this year that take place at an earlier time than the main event. I guess they send all the winners out to the main event after that.
Well yeah, but that's because they're doing a different format. Oh well. I'll still be watching and the tournament will undoubtedly be great anyway. I just feel like it's burning bridges with a lot of players and viewers. I hope it doesn't.
On February 01 2013 02:33 MLG_Adam wrote: Again. We want aspiration, we want open qualification, we want success stories, how can you say anything different based on our track record?
This event is 3 days after a major content release. Qualification is taking place on BETA servers. We wanted to have open online qualification for this event but it was not a logistical reality.
We are not done announcing 2013 plans. Have faith.
And just how exactly were these players chosen......?
Maybe jjakji will magically surprise me and do well. He didnt qualify for code a so he should be switching to HoTS full time, unless GSTL starts before HoTS is out because I dont remember when it starts.
On February 01 2013 03:01 goswser wrote: This map pool is also a horrible joke. Most of the HOTS maps are so bad none of them are fit for competition.
If they used any of the current maps that I have seen 2000 games on, I would not watch. They need new maps for a new game. After that, we can decide what is balanced for not with all the changes.
We are trimming to 7 maps for Dallas.
Do not make me watch Daybreak or Cloud K. We have seen to many games on those and we need fresh blood.
They say the reasons they can't do online quals/open bracket (which they have championed in the past) is because of instability across all the regions.. most people accept that. I don't really see anyone saying the reasoning for that isn't good enough.
Then I read a bunch of vague posts about how the picks are biased and no open bracket is bad. When has an invite tourney EVER made everyone happy? It simply isn't possible.. so if we accept the reasoning for why the invites are there, can't we be happy for the tourney itself? I mean, they are doing a hybrid tourney in the sense that there is at least 1 round of qualification which means a full 2x people get a crack at this as opposed to just a straight invite to an offline tourney?
Demu wasn't invited, our koreans... yet I can still look at this and say "ok." Ever wonder why Ddoro (inactive) and fenix are invited amongst others? Probably some point system behind that right? It isn't like MLG is super tight with Ddoro... come on.
I am obviously very sad about no open bracket.. but after hearing their reasoning and thinking about it.. I have come to a place where I can accept this for Dallas.
I know this thread doesn't speak for all of sc2 but I wish more of us would think on a more rational level as opposed to just jumping to boycott or get pissed
On February 01 2013 03:15 iNcontroL wrote: This thread is odd to me.
They say the reasons they can't do online quals/open bracket (which they have championed in the past) is because of instability across all the regions.. most people accept that. I don't really see anyone saying the reasoning for that isn't good enough.
Then I read a bunch of vague posts about how the picks are biased and no open bracket is bad. When has an invite tourney EVER made everyone happy? It simply isn't possible.. so if we accept the reasoning for why the invites are there, can't we be happy for the tourney itself? I mean, they are doing a hybrid tourney in the sense that there is at least 1 round of qualification which means a full 2x people get a crack at this as opposed to just a straight invite to an offline tourney?
Demu wasn't invited, our koreans... yet I can still look at this and say "ok." Ever wonder why Ddoro (inactive) and fenix are invited amongst others? Probably some point system behind that right? It isn't like MLG is super tight with Ddoro... come on.
I am obviously very sad about no open bracket.. but after hearing their reasoning and thinking about it.. I have come to a place where I can accept this for Dallas.
I know this thread doesn't speak for all of sc2 but I wish more of us would think on a more rational level as opposed to just jumping to boycott or get pissed
This is the internet! Rational thought??? You're crazy, man! You ask the impossible!
On February 01 2013 03:15 iNcontroL wrote: Demu wasn't invited, our koreans... yet I can still look at this and say "ok." Ever wonder why Ddoro (inactive) and fenix are invited amongst others? Probably some point system behind that right? It isn't like MLG is super tight with Ddoro... come on.
On February 01 2013 02:29 VirgilSC2 wrote: That would be because the way the invite criteria work wasn't event RESULTS, it was event PARTICIPATION. This means that players that might not be placing as HIGHLY as other players get invited simply because the team they play for can afford to send them to more events.
Personally my argument is that the "points system" is an inherently flawed, bottleneck-y system akin to MLG's disastrous 2011 Group Stage Seeding System. I don't see how MLG can make this mistake twice.
On February 01 2013 03:21 Glurkenspurk wrote: No open bracket means you aren't getting my view. Way to shit on everything that made previous MLGs good. Invitationals are boring.
On February 01 2013 03:21 Glurkenspurk wrote: No open bracket means you aren't getting my view. Way to shit on everything that made previous MLGs good. Invitationals are boring.
Well I can't accept the reasoning why online qualfiers are not possible. They plan to play the winter season showdown matches pretty much every day from now on and say they work closely together with blizzard to ensure stability on those days. Wouldn't it be much easier to ensure stability for 3 days in february where they play 3 big open regional qualifiers?
I think what MLG is doing with this Championship is the second worst possible outcome for the players and the sport (the at least give 56 people the chance instead of invitng 28).
As a spectator I will watch because the event itself will still be great for us, but I feel sorry for the players and I think it's only right that we express our criticism.
Edit: In case the showdown matches are all played on one stable day and then casted from replays, it should still be possible to play 3 qualifiers on 3 days.
MLG doing what it thinks is best, some of the invites are weird, but honestly, with such a limited amount of invites, it's kinda hard to get everyone who deserves one. It's one event with no open bracket, there's going to be plenty more with an open bracket. Instead of being upset, just be glad that there will be other events hosted by MLG with an open bracket, because let's face it, without MLG the NA tournament scene would be a lot shittier than it is now.
The amount of people who are saying stupid things that make no sense is staggering here, so just a little bit of common sense.
1) People who want open brackets, may I ask why? This is a hots tournament and right at its beginning anyway, so a no name winning against a famous player will by very nature have very little significance attached to it, cause why would it? I appreciate that its about equal opportunity, but there will be plenty of opportunities to prove yourself with release of HoTs, which you will take if you are actually any good, no need for it at MLG with an introduction of a fresh game.
2) Lets face it, there will be no no names who could make it through the open bracket that are not in the listed players. I dont want to guess how many newcomers made it through an open bracket at MLG since its very beginning, but I think you could easily count them with the fingers on one hand (if that). Why do you necessarily want an open bracket if its only gonna lead to GSL US? I mean players such as Maker/ ddoro/ sasquatch (no offense to you guys please, just trying to be objective) are invited, you honestly think someone even less famous than them would stand a chance through the open bracket?
3) Extension of point 2. People 100% wrong in saying that this reduces excitement (in general). Facts are facts, and they are that community watches when foreigners play, and the only way possible to have that is in this format. Open bracket will kill foreigners, and with it the viewer count for MLG, and with that possibly the future prospects of MLG (last one may be a stretch), so its in the best interest for MLG to ensure a solid foreigner saturation, and pray some of them make it deep. MLG knows that people crying about open bracket are a vocal minority compared to those who tune out after the last foreigner is eliminated.
This move makes 100% sense, and is by far the most desirable from a business standpoint. Whats the point of incurring all the extra costs which come from the open bracket, if there would be like no benefits from it? I am open for a change of perspective if someone can provide a good reason for why no open bracket is bad from the standpoint of the organization (in any way), because frankly I just dont see it in this particular case. For the record, the argument about equal chance and new talent development will just not work given the specificness of MLG dallas.
On February 01 2013 03:21 Glurkenspurk wrote: No open bracket means you aren't getting my view. Way to shit on everything that made previous MLGs good. Invitationals are boring.
Read the goddamn thread.
I did, and the reasoning sucks.
then you are a moron and there is no help for you.
On February 01 2013 03:01 goswser wrote: This map pool is also a horrible joke. Most of the HOTS maps are so bad none of them are fit for competition.
If they used any of the current maps that I have seen 2000 games on, I would not watch. They need new maps for a new game. After that, we can decide what is balanced for not with all the changes.
On top of that we don't even know how new units affect the old maps.
On February 01 2013 03:15 iNcontroL wrote: This thread is odd to me.
They say the reasons they can't do online quals/open bracket (which they have championed in the past) is because of instability across all the regions.. most people accept that. I don't really see anyone saying the reasoning for that isn't good enough.
Then I read a bunch of vague posts about how the picks are biased and no open bracket is bad. When has an invite tourney EVER made everyone happy? It simply isn't possible.. so if we accept the reasoning for why the invites are there, can't we be happy for the tourney itself? I mean, they are doing a hybrid tourney in the sense that there is at least 1 round of qualification which means a full 2x people get a crack at this as opposed to just a straight invite to an offline tourney?
Demu wasn't invited, our koreans... yet I can still look at this and say "ok." Ever wonder why Ddoro (inactive) and fenix are invited amongst others? Probably some point system behind that right? It isn't like MLG is super tight with Ddoro... come on.
I am obviously very sad about no open bracket.. but after hearing their reasoning and thinking about it.. I have come to a place where I can accept this for Dallas.
I know this thread doesn't speak for all of sc2 but I wish more of us would think on a more rational level as opposed to just jumping to boycott or get pissed
As usual, Geoff's posts ooze with logic...
I can't help but wonder though... If this is only an experiment for Dallas, being the year's 1st MLG, being the 1st HotS MLG, or is it going to be a repetitive scene for the year? I still think the open bracket gone and no clear qualifiers is a pretty huge setback. I am super sad to see the open bracket go, I am super sad to see some of my favorite players not invited... *Sigh* I just hope this gets solved soon, and that at least regional qualifiers are attempted... No open bracket forever and no qualy seems just... silly.
On February 01 2013 03:25 warmus wrote: The amount of people who are saying stupid things that make no sense is staggering here, so just a little bit of common sense.
1) People who want open brackets, may I ask why? This is a hots tournament and right at its beginning anyway, so a no name winning against a famous player will by very nature have very little significance attached to it, cause why would it? I appreciate that its about equal opportunity, but there will be plenty of opportunities to prove yourself with release of HoTs, which you will take if you are actually any good, no need for it at MLG with an introduction of a fresh game.
2) Lets face it, there will be no no names who could make it through the open bracket that are not in the listed players. I dont want to guess how many newcomers made it through an open bracket at MLG since its very beginning, but I think you could easily count them with the fingers on one hand (if that). Why do you necessarily want an open bracket if its only gonna lead to GSL US? I mean players such as Maker/ ddoro/ sasquatch (no offense to you guys please, just trying to be objective) are invited, you honestly think someone even less famous than them would stand a chance through the open bracket?
3) Extension of point 2. People 100% wrong in saying that this reduces excitement (in general). Facts are facts, and they are that community watches when foreigners play, and the only way possible to have that is in this format. Open bracket will kill foreigners, and with it the viewer count for MLG, and with that possibly the future prospects of MLG (last one may be a stretch), so its in the best interest for MLG to ensure a solid foreigner saturation, and pray some of them make it deep. MLG knows that people crying about open bracket are a vocal minority compared to those who tune out after the last foreigner is eliminated.
This move makes 100% sense, and is by far the most desirable from a business standpoint. Whats the point of incurring all the extra costs which come from the open bracket, if there would be like no benefits from it? I am open for a change of perspective if someone can provide a good reason for why no open bracket is bad from the standpoint of the organization (in any way), because frankly I just dont see it in this particular case. For the record, the argument about equal chance and new talent development will just not work given the specificness of MLG dallas.
The decision by MLG may not be liked
\
Coming up with an amazing "unbeatable" strategy after release and showing in an open bracket would be fucking amazing, and is what RTS games are all about. That kind of shit won't happen if tournaments are just back to being popularity contests again.
This does nothing but hurt the NA scene. I don't give a shit about how inviting washed up pros to a tournament gives them the most views. It fucking sucks for people trying to get their name out there, and is ANOTHER kick in the face to the NA scene, where MLG is one of the only accessible tournaments with an open bracket that people care about.
I understand that players from each region should meet, to have foreigners in the main tourney. However, I don't understand why we have a Scarlett vs Goswser match, both being Top5 NA players with Huk, Killer and IdrA, while we have matches like Suppy vs Maker and State vs Fenix
Little surprised to not see Naniwa in there but maybe he has other plans or something. Gonna be sweet to see the Kespa players play some Hots And I'll cheer extra for the swedes
On February 01 2013 03:31 GreyishTommy wrote: I understand that players from each region should meet, to have foreigners in the main tourney. However, I don't understand why we have a Scarlett vs Goswser match, both being Top5 NA players with Huk, Killer and IdrA, while we have matches like Suppy vs Maker and State vs Fenix
I'm pretty sure Scarlett vs Goswser and Vibe vs Illusion is just bad luck. They can't exactly rig the bracket so we get all we want.
The reaction seems a bit over the top, it looks to be a really solid tournament (even if I would have changed the players somewhat - the Europe-invites looks a couple of years old) and a decent format. The "open bracket" hysterics is getting too much, there is nothing wrong with having invites and making an invitational. It is the rarest of sports where established/popular players aren't invited/automatically qualified to major tournaments..
On February 01 2013 03:15 iNcontroL wrote: This thread is odd to me.
They say the reasons they can't do online quals/open bracket (which they have championed in the past) is because of instability across all the regions.. most people accept that. I don't really see anyone saying the reasoning for that isn't good enough.
Then I read a bunch of vague posts about how the picks are biased and no open bracket is bad. When has an invite tourney EVER made everyone happy? It simply isn't possible.. so if we accept the reasoning for why the invites are there, can't we be happy for the tourney itself? I mean, they are doing a hybrid tourney in the sense that there is at least 1 round of qualification which means a full 2x people get a crack at this as opposed to just a straight invite to an offline tourney?
Demu wasn't invited, our koreans... yet I can still look at this and say "ok." Ever wonder why Ddoro (inactive) and fenix are invited amongst others? Probably some point system behind that right? It isn't like MLG is super tight with Ddoro... come on.
I am obviously very sad about no open bracket.. but after hearing their reasoning and thinking about it.. I have come to a place where I can accept this for Dallas.
I know this thread doesn't speak for all of sc2 but I wish more of us would think on a more rational level as opposed to just jumping to boycott or get pissed
The beta seems fairly stable actually.. yes, balance patches come every ~2 weeks, but most of these aren't huge. I would appreciate SOMETHING over NOTHING either way. This will literally kill any sort of "middle class" and "up and coming" criteria of players.
On February 01 2013 03:31 Saber_Rider wrote: Little surprised to not see Naniwa in there but maybe he has other plans or something. Gonna be sweet to see the Kespa players play some Hots And I'll cheer extra for the swedes
naniwa had a few twitter post a while back that sounding like he was begging for an invite...
I've stood behind MLG for a long time, through ppv and other crazy shit, this has been my tournament. I feel like they will realize that no open bracket is a bad guy... MLG has continued to learn from its mistakes and I feel this is a pretty big one.
On February 01 2013 02:43 ssg wrote: Why is Violet considered a western Korean?
because he lives in Texas
Oh, okay. Thought it had to do with the teams since Hero and Taeja are there
It has to do with the Teams. Violet is a member of AZUBU, which is not a KeSPA Team or an ESF Team. Therefore, he falls into the Western/Independent Korea Region.
On February 01 2013 03:31 Saber_Rider wrote: Little surprised to not see Naniwa in there but maybe he has other plans or something. Gonna be sweet to see the Kespa players play some Hots And I'll cheer extra for the swedes
naniwa had a few twitter post a while back that sounding like he was begging for an invite...
I've been working on my mind games, aka cheeses, since playing beta last week. Hope I can pick up some cheese tactics from these games.
I'll root for IdrA since I don't see any ST player. Been on the hate train against IdrA for the past two years.It's a new game and a new year, I guess.
On February 01 2013 03:37 MLG_Adam wrote: Keep in mind that players from every region declined invites.
Of course they did. For example, flying from here (latin america) to the US is pretty damn expensive, and the tournament setup is really not that player-friendly... Teams or players won't risk investing in expensive air tickets and hotel reservations if they see no benefit. It's not that much of a "whoa, I don't like that tournament setup" but "whoa, what's in it for our team and me as a player, and what are the benefits?"...
Like I said previously, I think the experiment being undertaken is interesting, but too hurting to newcomers and underdogs, and most of all, to teams in general... :/
On February 01 2013 03:37 MLG_Adam wrote: Keep in mind that players from every region declined invites.
Of course they did. For example, flying from here (latin america) to the US is pretty damn expensive, and the tournament setup is really not that player-friendly... Teams or players won't risk investing in expensive air tickets and hotel reservations if they see no benefit. It's not that much of a "whoa, I don't like that tournament setup" but "whoa, what's in it for our team and me as a player, and what are the benefits?"...
Like I said previously, I think the experiment being undertaken is interesting, but too hurting to newcomers and underdogs, and most of all, to teams in general... :/
The winners of the qualifier matches are all flown to dallas and provided hotel. All 32 players will have a fully paid trip.
On February 01 2013 03:37 MLG_Adam wrote: Keep in mind that players from every region declined invites.
Adam, you may want to talk about making it a practice to post the players that were invited and declined. I think people would ask fewer questions about the process. I know there are reasons not to publish the invites, but it should be something that should be discussed. Everyone at least understands why players decline invites and people like it when events are up front.
On February 01 2013 03:45 KAB00000000M wrote: Bomber and Flash holy moly! (In addition to all the other awesome players) Best tournament ever! And HotS. I am looking forward to this!
On February 01 2013 03:01 goswser wrote: This map pool is also a horrible joke. Most of the HOTS maps are so bad none of them are fit for competition.
That's something that really remains to be seen, which is why we've decided to include 11 Maps in our Winter Season Showdowns. There's very little data when it comes to Maps being played in HotS tournaments. In fact, I would argue that there is none.
Each Player is allowed 3 Vetoes in their Showdown and we will use the Veto/Results data from these Showdowns to decide on our Map Pool of 7 for the Winter Championship.
On February 01 2013 03:01 goswser wrote: This map pool is also a horrible joke. Most of the HOTS maps are so bad none of them are fit for competition.
That's something that really remains to be seen, which is why we've decided to include 11 Maps in our Winter Season Showdowns. There's very little data when it comes to Maps being played in HotS tournaments. In fact, I would argue that there is none.
Each Player is allowed 3 Vetoes in their Showdown and we will use the Veto/Results data from these Showdowns to decide on our Map Pool of 7 for the Winter Championship.
Looks like a good way to do this. There is actually no way to know which maps are really good for HotS, as there are so few really top level players playing the beta seriously right now.
On February 01 2013 03:37 MLG_Adam wrote: Keep in mind that players from every region declined invites.
Of course they did. For example, flying from here (latin america) to the US is pretty damn expensive, and the tournament setup is really not that player-friendly... Teams or players won't risk investing in expensive air tickets and hotel reservations if they see no benefit. It's not that much of a "whoa, I don't like that tournament setup" but "whoa, what's in it for our team and me as a player, and what are the benefits?"...
Like I said previously, I think the experiment being undertaken is interesting, but too hurting to newcomers and underdogs, and most of all, to teams in general... :/
The winners of the qualifier matches are all flown to dallas and provided hotel. All 32 players will have a fully paid trip.
I stand corrected, my good sir. My sincerest apologies for my reckless and uninformed opinion. Now THAT is interesting. Why on God's earth would you reject an invite on those grounds? I'm baffled.
On February 01 2013 03:45 KAB00000000M wrote: Bomber and Flash holy moly! (In addition to all the other awesome players) Best tournament ever! And HotS. I am looking forward to this!
Thank you, I needed that
Adam, I am also pumped. You have a great line up and I am excited to see the show you folks put on. Are you folks streaming through Twitch? I hope so, since theirIphone app works with my Apple TV. If not, I will find another way to watch, but I have a 46 inch TV that really should have MLG on it.
Stupid can't believe that it's invite only. Doesn't affect me but such a joke for up and comer players who could go but now can't play cause MLG made this dumb decision.
I hope you guys change this as this is very very very disappointing to see. Hopefully this is just a one time thing I will tune in if some good zergs I like qualify still of course ^^.
On February 01 2013 03:15 iNcontroL wrote: This thread is odd to me.
They say the reasons they can't do online quals/open bracket (which they have championed in the past) is because of instability across all the regions.. most people accept that. I don't really see anyone saying the reasoning for that isn't good enough.
Then I read a bunch of vague posts about how the picks are biased and no open bracket is bad. When has an invite tourney EVER made everyone happy? It simply isn't possible.. so if we accept the reasoning for why the invites are there, can't we be happy for the tourney itself? I mean, they are doing a hybrid tourney in the sense that there is at least 1 round of qualification which means a full 2x people get a crack at this as opposed to just a straight invite to an offline tourney?
Demu wasn't invited, our koreans... yet I can still look at this and say "ok." Ever wonder why Ddoro (inactive) and fenix are invited amongst others? Probably some point system behind that right? It isn't like MLG is super tight with Ddoro... come on.
I am obviously very sad about no open bracket.. but after hearing their reasoning and thinking about it.. I have come to a place where I can accept this for Dallas.
I know this thread doesn't speak for all of sc2 but I wish more of us would think on a more rational level as opposed to just jumping to boycott or get pissed
On February 01 2013 03:45 KAB00000000M wrote: Bomber and Flash holy moly! (In addition to all the other awesome players) Best tournament ever! And HotS. I am looking forward to this!
Thank you, I needed that
You do so much great work for MLG! I'm very much looking forward to this! Grubby fighting!
On February 01 2013 03:45 KAB00000000M wrote: Bomber and Flash holy moly! (In addition to all the other awesome players) Best tournament ever! And HotS. I am looking forward to this!
Thank you, I needed that
Adam, I am also pumped. You have a great line up and I am excited to see the show you folks put on. Are you folks streaming through Twitch? I hope so, since theirIphone app works with my Apple TV. If not, I will find another way to watch, but I have a 46 inch TV that really should have MLG on it.
Thank you
It will be streamed exclusively on Twitch and we have some pretty amazing broadcast details to share. I guarantee not a single person will bitch about it.
I'll still watch, just a bit disappointed at the lack of an open bracket. I loved the endurance aspect and some of the massive runs that came out of those. I understand wanting to change it up a bit, and the timing is so turbulent with HotS and the transitions that are going to come through in the next few months but hopefully down the line we will see some more opportunity to have less known players get some stream time as well.
On February 01 2013 03:53 blade55555 wrote: Stupid can't believe that it's invite only. Doesn't affect me but such a joke for up and comer players who could go but now can't play cause MLG made this dumb decision.
I hope you guys change this as this is very very very disappointing to see. Hopefully this is just a one time thing I will tune in if some good zergs I like qualify still of course ^^.
Their reasoning behind not having an open bracket due to the HotS release 3 days before the event is sound and logical. You should read up on it and I think you will be far less upset about the matter.
I love watching MLG event's this should be a blast!
That being said, even though I understand the logistics behind the decision, no open bracket feels like a pretty big step backward :/ Looking forward to seeing what your (MLG's) plans are for the rest of the year.
On February 01 2013 03:01 goswser wrote: This map pool is also a horrible joke. Most of the HOTS maps are so bad none of them are fit for competition.
That's something that really remains to be seen, which is why we've decided to include 11 Maps in our Winter Season Showdowns. There's very little data when it comes to Maps being played in HotS tournaments. In fact, I would argue that there is none.
Each Player is allowed 3 Vetoes in their Showdown and we will use the Veto/Results data from these Showdowns to decide on our Map Pool of 7 for the Winter Championship.
Unfortunately in all but the most extreme cases, players just veto maps they are unfamiliar with, so relying on vetoes for data on which maps are not fit for competitive play will have us playing on Cloud Kingdom, Daybreak and Ohana until the end of time.
On February 01 2013 03:53 blade55555 wrote: Stupid can't believe that it's invite only. Doesn't affect me but such a joke for up and comer players who could go but now can't play cause MLG made this dumb decision.
I hope you guys change this as this is very very very disappointing to see. Hopefully this is just a one time thing I will tune in if some good zergs I like qualify still of course ^^.
That video* explains why there is no online open qualifier. And of course future seasons will have open aspects. Since this is HotS and it takes place days after HotS is released, this makes sense.
Strange that Jaedong is not on the list. I would think EG would want him at all the major foreign events. I believe it's an off week for Proleague too.
I like this, insanely high-level matches, and honestly, at MLG the open bracket usually gets us one or two players that end high up and the rest get rolled in the groups.
These matches will be very exciting, my favorite style tourney is mostly invite with a couple qualifying spots, but with this level of competition I don't. Should be a hell of a tournament with the Top 32 battling it out after (in a double Elim format?)... I guess only thing I miss is Lucifron or Vortex playing, either way, go MLG!
On February 01 2013 02:50 Plansix wrote: Adam, I agree with everything you are saying and it might be a nightmare trying to set up an event 3 days after the release of HotS. The only thing worse than not having an Open Bracket would be trying to run one and having it crash and burn because of some problem with HotS that is beyond your control. I glad to hear you guys are focusing on putting on the highest quality show possible for HotS, rather than assuming that it will all just work day one.
Though I respect that people are disappointed, there are limits to what these MLG can do with HotS being released 3 days befor the event. It is only one event and rather than being upset that the open bracket isn't there, folks should be reassured that MLG is taking the time to make sure we get a smooth show.
This. People, MLG might not be perfect (invites are WoL earned, at least somewhat), but they aren't trying to screw the game over, and it's completely legitimate that they can't hold online qualifiers on a volatile BETA.
On February 01 2013 03:45 KAB00000000M wrote: Bomber and Flash holy moly! (In addition to all the other awesome players) Best tournament ever! And HotS. I am looking forward to this!
Thank you, I needed that
Adam, I am also pumped. You have a great line up and I am excited to see the show you folks put on. Are you folks streaming through Twitch? I hope so, since theirIphone app works with my Apple TV. If not, I will find another way to watch, but I have a 46 inch TV that really should have MLG on it.
Thank you
It will be streamed exclusively on Twitch and we have some pretty amazing broadcast details to share. I guarantee not a single person will bitch about it.
You got to be kidding me, there is always someone out there that will bitch about it, be it just the sake of bitching.
Edit: Will the next MLG have an open bracket/open qualification? Because I understand that it is hard right now, because of the release dat and such, but for next MLG that shouldn't be a problem?
Was there this much revolt when there was no open bracket at IPL 5? I don't remember. It's funny now with IPL 6 there is still no open bracket for their WoL tourney, but they've been trying to rub it in mlg's faces on twitter that they have an open bracket for their Hots tourney.
It's sad MKP has to play Gumiho! They should both be there!
On February 01 2013 03:15 iNcontroL wrote: This thread is odd to me.
They say the reasons they can't do online quals/open bracket (which they have championed in the past) is because of instability across all the regions.. most people accept that. I don't really see anyone saying the reasoning for that isn't good enough.
Then I read a bunch of vague posts about how the picks are biased and no open bracket is bad. When has an invite tourney EVER made everyone happy? It simply isn't possible.. so if we accept the reasoning for why the invites are there, can't we be happy for the tourney itself? I mean, they are doing a hybrid tourney in the sense that there is at least 1 round of qualification which means a full 2x people get a crack at this as opposed to just a straight invite to an offline tourney?
Demu wasn't invited, our koreans... yet I can still look at this and say "ok." Ever wonder why Ddoro (inactive) and fenix are invited amongst others? Probably some point system behind that right? It isn't like MLG is super tight with Ddoro... come on.
I am obviously very sad about no open bracket.. but after hearing their reasoning and thinking about it.. I have come to a place where I can accept this for Dallas.
I know this thread doesn't speak for all of sc2 but I wish more of us would think on a more rational level as opposed to just jumping to boycott or get pissed
Geoff Robinson 2016
Actually, having another opinion than INcontrol doesnt mean it is irrational. HOTS is a big thing. I have much expectations, i want new players. I always want newcomers etc. I'm sick of the same old "progamers" that had the "luck" (and ofc skill) to be well-known in the beginning of sc2 and since then they didnt accomplish anything (exept maybe bad manners).
IMHO they had better to wait for anoher month, then do an open (online) qualification. Because a lot of people (including me), think HOTS is the BIG opportunity for SC2 to finally change something.. New players, new chances, new stories, new gameplay!
Instead its all the old stuff, boring format, same players, just hots..
I understand why they got rid of open brackets(ratings/viewer numbers) but I don't like it. Lesser known/up and coming players have lost a big opportunity to make a name for themselves with these MLG changes. I understand the view with HotS being so new also causing problems for an open bracket. I just hope it makes a return soon.
That said I'll still probably be there and watching.
On February 01 2013 04:06 FiWiFaKi wrote: I like this, insanely high-level matches, and honestly, at MLG the open bracket usually gets us one or two players that end high up and the rest get rolled in the groups.
These matches will be very exciting, my favorite style tourney is mostly invite with a couple qualifying spots, but with this level of competition I don't. Should be a hell of a tournament with the Top 32 battling it out after (in a double Elim format?)... I guess only thing I miss is Lucifron or Vortex playing, either way, go MLG!
Totally agree, unless the open bracket itself has some insane players that look like they can go all the way! Having said that, an open bracket is important in future so more people can break out onto the scene.
On February 01 2013 02:12 SkaPunk wrote: Don't really want to watch it if there are no open brackets.
Yeah me too... this replacement of the open bracket is... well nothing really replaced it.
....right
because you all enjoyed watching watching games like HuK vs NadaViking, TubbyTheFat vs Crank, and Daisuki vs Kirschke so much
pretty much this. This is a huge storm of shit about absolutely nothing. I think MLG did a great job to approach this. I like this way more than their weird MvP tournament.
On February 01 2013 04:23 Swords wrote: I guess I can see some appeal in this, but I'm pretty disappointed some players I really like got left out like Naniwa.
Naniwa, Lucifron, Vortix and many others declined.
I won't mind watching this online, but I'm definitely not going down to the event.
Format does suck for anyone trying to make a name for themselves, though. There's a couple of the guys invited who would be nothing if it wasn't for open brackets.
Very excited for this, I actually feel like it makes sense for the first few HotS tournaments to be invite only. This way progamers can focus on WoL without fear of being knocked out of major tournaments by nobodies who learned new gimmicky builds / all-ins in HotS already.
Also, lineups look sick, can't wait to see who makes it :D
All this bickering about the tournament formant and invites is, in the end, much ado about nothing really. There's a reason this is called an exhibition tournament. The qualifiers are being played on a hilariously imbalanced beta and there's no indication so far, that the game will be balanced when it comes out.
I'm sure it'll be entertaining to see what the top players do with the new units for the first time, but that's all it will be, it won't be a serious competition, just showmatches.
On February 01 2013 03:15 iNcontroL wrote: This thread is odd to me.
They say the reasons they can't do online quals/open bracket (which they have championed in the past) is because of instability across all the regions.. most people accept that. I don't really see anyone saying the reasoning for that isn't good enough.
Then I read a bunch of vague posts about how the picks are biased and no open bracket is bad. When has an invite tourney EVER made everyone happy? It simply isn't possible.. so if we accept the reasoning for why the invites are there, can't we be happy for the tourney itself? I mean, they are doing a hybrid tourney in the sense that there is at least 1 round of qualification which means a full 2x people get a crack at this as opposed to just a straight invite to an offline tourney?
Demu wasn't invited, our koreans... yet I can still look at this and say "ok." Ever wonder why Ddoro (inactive) and fenix are invited amongst others? Probably some point system behind that right? It isn't like MLG is super tight with Ddoro... come on.
I am obviously very sad about no open bracket.. but after hearing their reasoning and thinking about it.. I have come to a place where I can accept this for Dallas.
I know this thread doesn't speak for all of sc2 but I wish more of us would think on a more rational level as opposed to just jumping to boycott or get pissed
Geoff Robinson 2016
Actually, having another opinion than INcontrol doesnt mean it is irrational. HOTS is a big thing. I have much expectations, i want new players. I always want newcomers etc. I'm sick of the same old "progamers" that had the "luck" (and ofc skill) to be well-known in the beginning of sc2 and since then they didnt accomplish anything (exept maybe bad manners).
IMHO they had better to wait for anoher month, then do an open (online) qualification. Because a lot of people (including me), think HOTS is the BIG opportunity for SC2 to finally change something.. New players, new chances, new stories, new gameplay!
Instead its all the old stuff, boring format, same players, just hots..
Bad start for HOTS.
It sounds like you were never going to be happy no matter what MLG did, or you just have unreasonable expectations. I am sure there is some amateur tournament that will have what you are looking for.
On February 01 2013 02:12 SkaPunk wrote: Don't really want to watch it if there are no open brackets.
Yeah me too... this replacement of the open bracket is... well nothing really replaced it.
....right
because you all enjoyed watching watching games like HuK vs NadaViking, TubbyTheFat vs Crank, and Daisuki vs Kirschke so much
Completely agree. I don't know what is the fuzz about not having open brackets. I've never enjoyed them personally, I only care about pro level entertaining matches, and I didn't watch any "pro vs. unknown player" match in these tournaments. Also, I understand that some people that aren't pros wanted to play in the open qualifiers, but I guess it is win-win situation for me, as long as there are many good names.
And btw Adam, keep up the good work. Tournament is going to be great, you can't please everybody. I will certainly watch it, since this will probably be the first HOTS tournament!
Wow, a lot of negative criticisms and whining. Sure, some of the players that we like might not have been included but the whole thing still seems to be within reason. If you do not like the format or you are disappointed, go send your messages directly to the people involved with the event.
On February 01 2013 03:15 iNcontroL wrote: This thread is odd to me.
They say the reasons they can't do online quals/open bracket (which they have championed in the past) is because of instability across all the regions.. most people accept that. I don't really see anyone saying the reasoning for that isn't good enough.
Then I read a bunch of vague posts about how the picks are biased and no open bracket is bad. When has an invite tourney EVER made everyone happy? It simply isn't possible.. so if we accept the reasoning for why the invites are there, can't we be happy for the tourney itself? I mean, they are doing a hybrid tourney in the sense that there is at least 1 round of qualification which means a full 2x people get a crack at this as opposed to just a straight invite to an offline tourney?
Demu wasn't invited, our koreans... yet I can still look at this and say "ok." Ever wonder why Ddoro (inactive) and fenix are invited amongst others? Probably some point system behind that right? It isn't like MLG is super tight with Ddoro... come on.
I am obviously very sad about no open bracket.. but after hearing their reasoning and thinking about it.. I have come to a place where I can accept this for Dallas.
I know this thread doesn't speak for all of sc2 but I wish more of us would think on a more rational level as opposed to just jumping to boycott or get pissed
Geoff Robinson 2016
Actually, having another opinion than INcontrol doesnt mean it is irrational. HOTS is a big thing. I have much expectations, i want new players. I always want newcomers etc. I'm sick of the same old "progamers" that had the "luck" (and ofc skill) to be well-known in the beginning of sc2 and since then they didnt accomplish anything (exept maybe bad manners).
IMHO they had better to wait for anoher month, then do an open (online) qualification. Because a lot of people (including me), think HOTS is the BIG opportunity for SC2 to finally change something.. New players, new chances, new stories, new gameplay!
Instead its all the old stuff, boring format, same players, just hots..
Bad start for HOTS.
wait a month, and not be the first big hots tournament? yeah, great marketing advice you're giving here.
On February 01 2013 04:23 Swords wrote: I guess I can see some appeal in this, but I'm pretty disappointed some players I really like got left out like Naniwa.
Naniwa, Lucifron, Vortix and many others declined.
Demuslim, too? And this isn't the biggest deal, but maybe say who declined invites in the OP, so you don't get angry kids thinking you purposefully didn't invite their favorite player.
I can't believe people are putting so much hate on this. I actually thank them for it. I wouldn't want their normal huge competition the week after HoTS comes out. I'd rather have more time for people to learn the game a little more. This is a great opportunity to show that, but also it's not too much. Looking forward to it!
So seeing as how its invitation only, they're flying all of their SC2 players that qualify over? All 32 for a single elimination bracket. so 16/32 who qualify will play one Bo3/5 (Round 1 on the first day probably) and no payout and just hang around the rest of the event or enjoy Dallas.
I can see the appeal for why some would go and why some people would decline.
dont get why some are so harsh towards mlg considering how volatile the timing is around the hots release, also they are very open about everything and clearly stated that its a one time invite only thing
On February 01 2013 04:46 Tigi wrote: Invite only sux. Especially the invites they made: No Hasuobs in Europe? You searious ? .... nothing to say. mlg complete fail
maybe just maybe he declined? but hey, its MLG, lets hate anyway right?
On February 01 2013 04:46 Tigi wrote: Invite only sux. Especially the invites they made: No Hasuobs in Europe? You searious ? .... nothing to say. mlg complete fail
On February 01 2013 04:53 Fuzer wrote: Well I dont understand point of invite only qualifiers? Whats the difference of just not making invite only tournament, joke
It is pretty clear both of you did not read the thread in any way.
really happy to have such a stacked tournament with such a large prize pool just a few days after the release!
totally understand why there is no open bracket due to the situation. though, maybe you should have put 2-3 spots up for open qualifiers (at least to calm down all the haters..).
On February 01 2013 02:12 SkaPunk wrote: Don't really want to watch it if there are no open brackets.
Yeah me too... this replacement of the open bracket is... well nothing really replaced it.
....right
because you all enjoyed watching watching games like HuK vs NadaViking, TubbyTheFat vs Crank, and Daisuki vs Kirschke so much
Completely agree. I don't know what is the fuzz about not having open brackets. I've never enjoyed them personally, I only care about pro level entertaining matches, and I didn't watch any "pro vs. unknown player" match in these tournaments. Also, I understand that some people that aren't pros wanted to play in the open qualifiers, but I guess it is win-win situation for me, as long as there are many good names.
And btw Adam, keep up the good work. Tournament is going to be great, you can't please everybody. I will certainly watch it, since this will probably be the first HOTS tournament!
For me, its not the lack of an open bracket so much as the lack of any chance for an upcomer to actually show anything. Even if they did some kind of satellite into a showdown for a certain number of places I would be happy tbh... I just really dislike this approach
A lot of this shitstorm could have been avoided by giving the community more reasonings behind the decisions. Listing players that have declined their invites would have been a good start.
On February 01 2013 05:01 kottbullar wrote: A lot of this shitstorm could have been avoided by giving the community more reasonings behind the decisions. Listing players that have declined their invites would have been a good start.
Or the shitstorm didnt have to be created in the first place, if you dont like this decision just simply dont watch it, what's the problem.
On February 01 2013 02:12 SkaPunk wrote: Don't really want to watch it if there are no open brackets.
Yeah me too... this replacement of the open bracket is... well nothing really replaced it.
....right
because you all enjoyed watching watching games like HuK vs NadaViking, TubbyTheFat vs Crank, and Daisuki vs Kirschke so much
Completely agree. I don't know what is the fuzz about not having open brackets. I've never enjoyed them personally, I only care about pro level entertaining matches, and I didn't watch any "pro vs. unknown player" match in these tournaments. Also, I understand that some people that aren't pros wanted to play in the open qualifiers, but I guess it is win-win situation for me, as long as there are many good names.
And btw Adam, keep up the good work. Tournament is going to be great, you can't please everybody. I will certainly watch it, since this will probably be the first HOTS tournament!
For me, its not the lack of an open bracket so much as the lack of any chance for an upcomer to actually show anything. Even if they did some kind of satellite into a showdown for a certain number of places I would be happy tbh... I just really dislike this approach
On February 01 2013 05:01 kottbullar wrote: A lot of this shitstorm could have been avoided by giving the community more reasonings behind the decisions. Listing players that have declined their invites would have been a good start.
Or the shitstorm didnt have to be created in the first place, if you dont like this decision just simply dont watch it, what's the problem.
People would freak out no matter what. There is a large part of the community lives for the drama and complaining about minor things that don't really matter. MLG was never going to make everyone happy, so they should just release the info and put on a show for the people who want to enjoy SC2.
How can people be so disparaging about this? MLG works their fucking tits off to bring high quality entertainment, the best players, a union with Kespa, and big prize pools, and all people can say is "hurr it's no IPL durr".
Jesus Christ, this is being put on for your entertainment. Show some damn gratitude. Without companies like MLG eSports would barely exist in the US.
I'm as upset that there's no open bracket as anyone but this is clearly a one off, exhibitionary thing to show off the game and generate interest - by showing it at its highest level. Obviously MLG will go back to the traditional format in the next Championships.
A big factor reason why people go to MLG's is the ability to see MANY, MANY of their favorite pros. This setup surely is going to make a lot of people reconsider coming to the event. I assume that their revenue for the spectator passes is negligible compared to their online streaming revenue.
On February 01 2013 02:12 SkaPunk wrote: Don't really want to watch it if there are no open brackets.
Yeah me too... this replacement of the open bracket is... well nothing really replaced it.
....right
because you all enjoyed watching watching games like HuK vs NadaViking, TubbyTheFat vs Crank, and Daisuki vs Kirschke so much
Completely agree. I don't know what is the fuzz about not having open brackets. I've never enjoyed them personally, I only care about pro level entertaining matches, and I didn't watch any "pro vs. unknown player" match in these tournaments. Also, I understand that some people that aren't pros wanted to play in the open qualifiers, but I guess it is win-win situation for me, as long as there are many good names.
And btw Adam, keep up the good work. Tournament is going to be great, you can't please everybody. I will certainly watch it, since this will probably be the first HOTS tournament!
For me, its not the lack of an open bracket so much as the lack of any chance for an upcomer to actually show anything. Even if they did some kind of satellite into a showdown for a certain number of places I would be happy tbh... I just really dislike this approach
Sorry, but again. How many times has an upcomer shown anything of notice? i can only ever think of thorzain who was an unknown- turn- star after the TSL3. Other than that it just never happened. There is so much content out there that MLG is not the only place to prove yourself, in fact go prove yourself somewhere else before you clog up the open bracket to get 2-0 by an american semi pro, who then gets 2-0 by the first korean he meets (and MLG pays for this with bandwidth computers etc). And in the rare case you manage to take a game, no one will even notice nor care enough untill you beat a couple of pro koreans, and if you do that we already knew who you are. If there would be "new" talent with some serious prospects, we would already know about it, its the internet community of an online game after all.
On February 01 2013 05:20 Larkin wrote: How can people be so disparaging about this? MLG works their fucking tits off to bring high quality entertainment, the best players, a union with Kespa, and big prize pools, and all people can say is "hurr it's no IPL durr".
Jesus Christ, this is being put on for your entertainment. Show some damn gratitude. Without companies like MLG eSports would barely exist in the US.
I'm as upset that there's no open bracket as anyone but this is clearly a one off, exhibitionary thing to show off the game and generate interest - by showing it at its highest level. Obviously MLG will go back to the traditional format in the next Championships.
I disagree that we need to generate interest in the game through an invite-only exhibition. Wouldn't the introduction of a new game be a perfect time to hold an open bracket? I want to see what up and comers that have been practicing the beta for months have come up with. I also think it's the best opportunity for one of these players to make it pretty high in the tournament and get some new stories going. I still haven't heard why we can't have an on-site open bracket. For me personally, living in Dallas, eliminating the open bracket and the chance for participating makes spectating much less exciting. I'm sure it will still be a good event (especially to online viewers) I just think it could have been better for the on-site spectators.
I will try to explain why an open bracket is NOT A GOOD THING for this particular MLG event, because MLG seems unable to do so.
By having a tournament so close to HOTS release, it is clear that it will be at such an early part of the meta game that it will essentially be just a giant cluster fuck. Top players wouldn't have had enough time to acclimate and could at any point, get cheesed out to some stupid all-in that they haven't seen yet.
Right now if you had an open bracket, ST_Life will get through with no problem, and you would expect him to do so. Why? Because the meta-game is established, he knows what to expect, and he can reasonably get to the mid game consistently, where he will outshine the players that are tiers below him. If you look at this MLG, however, that isn't necessarily the case. An open bracket means that many top players could get cheesed out by lesser players, and you will have a tournament with several terrible players not being to hold their own mechanically or strategically.
By giving people some form of organized format and structure, the top pro players can reasonably prepare for their matches and have some form of strategy and practice. And if there is some cheesing among them, at least there will be some brand name players at the top (and while you might not care, MLG definitely does because they don't want a failed event).
So, for this event, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE to have an open bracket. I don't even want to see it. I'd rather see how the pros handle the changes. At least I know pros will be able to adapt within the tournament or provide semi-decent matches from their mechanics alone.
It is absolutely the right move on MLG's part. Any tournament that has an "open" bracket within the first week of the game release is asking for trouble. HOTS isn't that much different than WOL. If some unknown wins HOTS from the open bracket, it will be because he's abusing some really overpowered strategy. The top players remain the top players.
It sounds really cool and all but I doubt any of the top Koreans even started toying around with HotS yet or barely have. Def won't be as high skilled as WoL tourneys but still, should be interesting.
On February 01 2013 02:12 SkaPunk wrote: Don't really want to watch it if there are no open brackets.
Yeah me too... this replacement of the open bracket is... well nothing really replaced it.
....right
because you all enjoyed watching watching games like HuK vs NadaViking, TubbyTheFat vs Crank, and Daisuki vs Kirschke so much
Completely agree. I don't know what is the fuzz about not having open brackets. I've never enjoyed them personally, I only care about pro level entertaining matches, and I didn't watch any "pro vs. unknown player" match in these tournaments. Also, I understand that some people that aren't pros wanted to play in the open qualifiers, but I guess it is win-win situation for me, as long as there are many good names.
And btw Adam, keep up the good work. Tournament is going to be great, you can't please everybody. I will certainly watch it, since this will probably be the first HOTS tournament!
For me, its not the lack of an open bracket so much as the lack of any chance for an upcomer to actually show anything. Even if they did some kind of satellite into a showdown for a certain number of places I would be happy tbh... I just really dislike this approach
Sorry, but again. How many times has an upcomer shown anything of notice? i can only ever think of thorzain who was an unknown- turn- star after the TSL3. Other than that it just never happened.
In fairness, Stephano, Scarlett, Vortix, Feast, SortOf, Snute and Suppy. Also quite a lot of Korean players, including a funky, overly-aggressive Zerg who was nearly as good as Line.
On February 01 2013 05:20 Larkin wrote: How can people be so disparaging about this? MLG works their fucking tits off to bring high quality entertainment, the best players, a union with Kespa, and big prize pools, and all people can say is "hurr it's no IPL durr".
Jesus Christ, this is being put on for your entertainment. Show some damn gratitude. Without companies like MLG eSports would barely exist in the US.
I'm as upset that there's no open bracket as anyone but this is clearly a one off, exhibitionary thing to show off the game and generate interest - by showing it at its highest level. Obviously MLG will go back to the traditional format in the next Championships.
I disagree that we need to generate interest in the game through an invite-only exhibition. Wouldn't the introduction of a new game be a perfect time to hold an open bracket? I want to see what up and comers that have been practicing the beta for months have come up with. I also think it's the best opportunity for one of these players to make it pretty high in the tournament and get some new stories going. I still haven't heard why we can't have an on-site open bracket. For me personally, living in Dallas, eliminating the open bracket and the chance for participating makes spectating much less exciting. I'm sure it will still be a good event (especially to online viewers) I just think it could have been better for the on-site spectators.
Perhaps. But just because it's a new game it doesn't mean WoL players are going to suck at it and unknowns will beast it. Perhaps some GM players could make a mark if they've played enough, but if they can't at the next tournament then they're clearly not good enough and this will obviously be a one off.
Any open bracket has the same story - the expected Koreans destroy everything until they meet each other, they all get through the groups, the better NA/EU players have a more likely chance to be upset but their upsetters still won't beat the Koreans.
Besides, there are plenty of the less successful players in the HotS exhibition, perhaps this is their chance. Imagine if (picking a match from memory) Sasquatch beats HuK to qualify, then freaking mauls everyone and ends up placing top 4? That'd be a far better storyline than "supergamer3490 finishes 49th at MLG, upsets Machine and Nony."
On February 01 2013 04:46 Tigi wrote: Invite only sux. Especially the invites they made: No Hasuobs in Europe? You searious ? .... nothing to say. mlg complete fail
maybe just maybe he declined? but hey, its MLG, lets hate anyway right?
Adding a "Please Read the thread before posting" thing on the top of the thread might be a good idea. But still, seems like the most vocals sometimes are the people who dislike/hate mlg. :S
On February 01 2013 05:20 Larkin wrote: How can people be so disparaging about this? MLG works their fucking tits off to bring high quality entertainment, the best players, a union with Kespa, and big prize pools, and all people can say is "hurr it's no IPL durr".
Jesus Christ, this is being put on for your entertainment. Show some damn gratitude. Without companies like MLG eSports would barely exist in the US.
I'm as upset that there's no open bracket as anyone but this is clearly a one off, exhibitionary thing to show off the game and generate interest - by showing it at its highest level. Obviously MLG will go back to the traditional format in the next Championships.
I disagree that we need to generate interest in the game through an invite-only exhibition. Wouldn't the introduction of a new game be a perfect time to hold an open bracket? I want to see what up and comers that have been practicing the beta for months have come up with. I also think it's the best opportunity for one of these players to make it pretty high in the tournament and get some new stories going. I still haven't heard why we can't have an on-site open bracket. For me personally, living in Dallas, eliminating the open bracket and the chance for participating makes spectating much less exciting. I'm sure it will still be a good event (especially to online viewers) I just think it could have been better for the on-site spectators.
The reason for removing the open bracket is due to concerns of server stability due to the game being released 3 days earlier. It is not because they only want known names. Your complaint is valid, but not worth the risk of having the entire event crash and burn because of server or connection issues.
The situation with a large number of invite tournaments is relatively similar to the situation around the Wings of Liberty beta and release where players who were relatively successful on ladder complained about a lack of invites compared to well-known BW and WC3 players. However, a few months after release, we started to see who the top players were in open bracket GSLs and MLGs. Remember that a lot of the most successful WoL players, including MVP and NesTea, never even played the beta, so beta success can mean more than a lot of you think.
I'm looking at this MLG as a fun invitational, kind of like Day[9]'s "King of the Beta" in Wings of Liberty. We'll see who the real top players are when, inevitably, IEM and Dreamhack and even MLG have open qualifier events a few months after release. Have some perspective, MLG is not the only tournament out there.
On February 01 2013 05:36 mprs wrote: I will try to explain why an open bracket is NOT A GOOD THING for this particular MLG event, because MLG seems unable to do so.
By having a tournament so close to HOTS release, it is clear that it will be at such an early part of the meta game that it will essentially be just a giant cluster fuck. Top players wouldn't have had enough time to acclimate and could at any point, get cheesed out to some stupid all-in that they haven't seen yet.
Right now if you had an open bracket, ST_Life will get through with no problem, and you would expect him to do so. Why? Because the meta-game is established, he knows what to expect, and he can reasonably get to the mid game consistently, where he will outshine the players that are tiers below him. If you look at this MLG, however, that isn't necessarily the case. An open bracket means that many top players could get cheesed out by lesser players, and you will have a tournament with several terrible players not being to hold their own mechanically or strategically.
By giving people some form of organized format and structure, the top pro players can reasonably prepare for their matches and have some form of strategy and practice. And if there is some cheesing among them, at least there will be some brand name players at the top (and while you might not care, MLG definitely does because they don't want a failed event).
So, for this event, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE to have an open bracket. I don't even want to see it. I'd rather see how the pros handle the changes. At least I know pros will be able to adapt within the tournament or provide semi-decent matches from their mechanics alone.
It is absolutely the right move on MLG's part. Any tournament that has an "open" bracket within the first week of the game release is asking for trouble. HOTS isn't that much different than WOL. If some unknown wins HOTS from the open bracket, it will be because he's abusing some really overpowered strategy. The top players remain the top players.
I think you just don't get that many of us want to see established pros get cheesed out by new and unique strategies by up and coming players who have been practicing their asses off with HoTS.
If a recent interview Flash said he won't have time to practice Hots because of proleague and he's concerned about this MLG because of it I hope he figures something out, would love to see him do okay
On February 01 2013 05:53 Zenbrez wrote: If a recent interview Flash said he won't have time to practice Hots because of proleague and he's concerned about this MLG because of it I hope he figures something out, would love to see him do okay
If WoL is any indicator this tournament won't have much prestige compared to tournaments held a few months after release. If Flash fans are looking for positive news, being reminded that MVP and NesTea were playing BW instead of WoL beta might cheer you up.
On February 01 2013 05:36 mprs wrote: I will try to explain why an open bracket is NOT A GOOD THING for this particular MLG event, because MLG seems unable to do so.
By having a tournament so close to HOTS release, it is clear that it will be at such an early part of the meta game that it will essentially be just a giant cluster fuck. Top players wouldn't have had enough time to acclimate and could at any point, get cheesed out to some stupid all-in that they haven't seen yet.
Right now if you had an open bracket, ST_Life will get through with no problem, and you would expect him to do so. Why? Because the meta-game is established, he knows what to expect, and he can reasonably get to the mid game consistently, where he will outshine the players that are tiers below him. If you look at this MLG, however, that isn't necessarily the case. An open bracket means that many top players could get cheesed out by lesser players, and you will have a tournament with several terrible players not being to hold their own mechanically or strategically.
By giving people some form of organized format and structure, the top pro players can reasonably prepare for their matches and have some form of strategy and practice. And if there is some cheesing among them, at least there will be some brand name players at the top (and while you might not care, MLG definitely does because they don't want a failed event).
So, for this event, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE to have an open bracket. I don't even want to see it. I'd rather see how the pros handle the changes. At least I know pros will be able to adapt within the tournament or provide semi-decent matches from their mechanics alone.
It is absolutely the right move on MLG's part. Any tournament that has an "open" bracket within the first week of the game release is asking for trouble. HOTS isn't that much different than WOL. If some unknown wins HOTS from the open bracket, it will be because he's abusing some really overpowered strategy. The top players remain the top players.
I think you just don't get that many of us want to see established pros get cheesed out by new and unique strategies by up and coming players who have been practicing their asses off with HoTS.
I cannot describe how terrible that sounds and how I never want to see that ever. I had my time with BitbyBit-Prime and that was enough.
kind of boring to me, just because there have been a lot of good stories with players becoming known in the open bracket, or unexpected runs from lesser known players.
On February 01 2013 05:59 Xova wrote: I wanted to go to Dallas so I could play, I know I won't win. But I go to MLG to play and have fun. Looks like I'm going to IPL this year.
Until the next MLG when they will have an open bracket? This is just one event.
On February 01 2013 02:12 SkaPunk wrote: Don't really want to watch it if there are no open brackets.
This is dishonest, I can get you don't like the fact there is no open bracket for the new or upcoming players, but the matches will probably be as good if not better, the roster will be even more heavy, too bad for 'murican though
If that is there reasoning for an invite tourny because beta is unstable then you know what they should have a WOL tourny. I honestly am excited about HOTS but I will not be watching this tourny the day after HOTS releases. But I will be watching IPL's WOL tourny because they are doing it right and not trying to be the first but be the best.
Stupid idea to have qualifiers in a beta and then a tourny a day or two after HOTS releases
On February 01 2013 05:59 Xova wrote: I wanted to go to Dallas so I could play, I know I won't win. But I go to MLG to play and have fun. Looks like I'm going to IPL this year.
Go to Anaheim in June when the open bracket is all but certain to return. And go to IPL. They're both awesome.
On February 01 2013 02:12 SkaPunk wrote: Don't really want to watch it if there are no open brackets.
This is dishonest, I can get you don't like the fact there is no open bracket for the new or upcoming players, but the matches will probably be as good if not better, the roster will be even more heavy, too bad for 'murican though
Yeah, I call bullshit on most of the "No open bracket, won't watch" posts. Like most kids who claim they won't listen to X podcast any more and then complaint a couple weeks later about some other issue, these kids will be tuning in.
Oh god I really hope you won't use Korhal City, Newkirk City or Star Station in the future. Those are just the usual terrible Blizzard maps.
Wish you could go the route of Kespa/GSL/IPL and work together with mapmakers for some actual good new maps, you know how to contact us. Obligatory link to the map data base http://sc2melee.net/
Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups. I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who bought tickets to this event in advance, especially if they were hoping to compete.
Oh well, IPL seems willing to pick up MLG's slack so it's not the end of the world or anything, just a lose-lose situation where spectators get worse games and a bunch of talented players who are stronger than the invites don't get the chance to play in MLG.
On February 01 2013 05:59 Xova wrote: I wanted to go to Dallas so I could play, I know I won't win. But I go to MLG to play and have fun. Looks like I'm going to IPL this year.
Someone made a comment last night on ChanmanV's show wednesday night sprites that this IPL will also not have an open bracket. I think it was from coLsasquatch, but it may have been one of the other hosts
On February 01 2013 06:15 RemarK wrote: Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups. I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who bought tickets to this event in advance, especially if they were hoping to compete.
Oh well, IPL seems willing to pick up MLG's slack so it's not the end of the world or anything, just a lose-lose situation where spectators get worse games and a bunch of talented players who are stronger than the invites don't get the chance to play in MLG.
On February 01 2013 05:36 mprs wrote: I will try to explain why an open bracket is NOT A GOOD THING for this particular MLG event, because MLG seems unable to do so.
By having a tournament so close to HOTS release, it is clear that it will be at such an early part of the meta game that it will essentially be just a giant cluster fuck. Top players wouldn't have had enough time to acclimate and could at any point, get cheesed out to some stupid all-in that they haven't seen yet.
Right now if you had an open bracket, ST_Life will get through with no problem, and you would expect him to do so. Why? Because the meta-game is established, he knows what to expect, and he can reasonably get to the mid game consistently, where he will outshine the players that are tiers below him. If you look at this MLG, however, that isn't necessarily the case. An open bracket means that many top players could get cheesed out by lesser players, and you will have a tournament with several terrible players not being to hold their own mechanically or strategically.
By giving people some form of organized format and structure, the top pro players can reasonably prepare for their matches and have some form of strategy and practice. And if there is some cheesing among them, at least there will be some brand name players at the top (and while you might not care, MLG definitely does because they don't want a failed event).
So, for this event, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE to have an open bracket. I don't even want to see it. I'd rather see how the pros handle the changes. At least I know pros will be able to adapt within the tournament or provide semi-decent matches from their mechanics alone.
It is absolutely the right move on MLG's part. Any tournament that has an "open" bracket within the first week of the game release is asking for trouble. HOTS isn't that much different than WOL. If some unknown wins HOTS from the open bracket, it will be because he's abusing some really overpowered strategy. The top players remain the top players.
I think you just don't get that many of us want to see established pros get cheesed out by new and unique strategies by up and coming players who have been practicing their asses off with HoTS.
I cannot describe how terrible that sounds and how I never want to see that ever. I had my time with BitbyBit-Prime and that was enough.
You didn't enjoy that? BIT BY BIT!!!!
And oh the glorious Idra rages! You don't get rages like "apologize for playing that race" with an established meta
This is going to be the best MLG ever, if not just because of HOTS. Absolutely no telling who is going to win and we will see some crazy stuff for sure. I will be paying and watching!.
I was really disappointed when I heard IPL6 wasn't going to be HOTS. Yea I know there will be an exhibition open tourney, but still...
On February 01 2013 06:15 RemarK wrote: Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups. I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who bought tickets to this event in advance, especially if they were hoping to compete.
Oh well, IPL seems willing to pick up MLG's slack so it's not the end of the world or anything, just a lose-lose situation where spectators get worse games and a bunch of talented players who are stronger than the invites don't get the chance to play in MLG.
The bad map pool is just icing on the cake
When you start your post off with “Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups,” its not a really good start. It is pretty clear you didn’t read the thread and are only here to hate on MLG and have no real argument what so ever. People don’t know if IPL is having a true open bracket and their event is still WoL, it is pretty dumb.
Also, there is no data on what is a broken or not broken map in HotS. But I am sure there are some experts out there that will tell you otherwise.
On February 01 2013 05:36 mprs wrote: I will try to explain why an open bracket is NOT A GOOD THING for this particular MLG event, because MLG seems unable to do so.
By having a tournament so close to HOTS release, it is clear that it will be at such an early part of the meta game that it will essentially be just a giant cluster fuck. Top players wouldn't have had enough time to acclimate and could at any point, get cheesed out to some stupid all-in that they haven't seen yet.
Right now if you had an open bracket, ST_Life will get through with no problem, and you would expect him to do so. Why? Because the meta-game is established, he knows what to expect, and he can reasonably get to the mid game consistently, where he will outshine the players that are tiers below him. If you look at this MLG, however, that isn't necessarily the case. An open bracket means that many top players could get cheesed out by lesser players, and you will have a tournament with several terrible players not being to hold their own mechanically or strategically.
By giving people some form of organized format and structure, the top pro players can reasonably prepare for their matches and have some form of strategy and practice. And if there is some cheesing among them, at least there will be some brand name players at the top (and while you might not care, MLG definitely does because they don't want a failed event).
So, for this event, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE to have an open bracket. I don't even want to see it. I'd rather see how the pros handle the changes. At least I know pros will be able to adapt within the tournament or provide semi-decent matches from their mechanics alone.
It is absolutely the right move on MLG's part. Any tournament that has an "open" bracket within the first week of the game release is asking for trouble. HOTS isn't that much different than WOL. If some unknown wins HOTS from the open bracket, it will be because he's abusing some really overpowered strategy. The top players remain the top players.
I think you just don't get that many of us want to see established pros get cheesed out by new and unique strategies by up and coming players who have been practicing their asses off with HoTS.
And by all reasonable expectations, the chances of that happening are slim to none. Pros being "cheesed out" is not very entertaining. Go ahead and look at the GSL Code S Open S1-3. Plenty of pros getting cheesed out by Terran all-ins, hardly entertaining.
I don't think you fully understand what I'm saying. Open brackets are a good thing, but no company should throw a tournament and spend a shit ton of money hoping that some unlikely outcome will occur. Just remember, WoL had a beta too, and no one knew about the SCV terran all in, or the 1-1-1 all in, or any kind of cheesy strategy that became dominant after release. We don't know what to expect, so it is SMART for MLG to not leave their financial livelihood to chance. There will be pros at the events, there will be top HOTS players there, and there will be good games, smart decisions, and good mechanics. That's enough to throw a successful event and get a lot of storylines from. The fact that it is the first real HOTS tournament is a storyline in itself. It will be interesting what the pros do with this game.
I understand you want to see some random guy from Texas do some randomly stupid strategy that beats out a top player. But MLG shouldn't (and if you care about these organization's success, you also shouldn't) risk it by spending a lot of money on open brackets only to lose their star power... It makes no sense.
On February 01 2013 05:36 mprs wrote: I will try to explain why an open bracket is NOT A GOOD THING for this particular MLG event, because MLG seems unable to do so.
By having a tournament so close to HOTS release, it is clear that it will be at such an early part of the meta game that it will essentially be just a giant cluster fuck. Top players wouldn't have had enough time to acclimate and could at any point, get cheesed out to some stupid all-in that they haven't seen yet.
Right now if you had an open bracket, ST_Life will get through with no problem, and you would expect him to do so. Why? Because the meta-game is established, he knows what to expect, and he can reasonably get to the mid game consistently, where he will outshine the players that are tiers below him. If you look at this MLG, however, that isn't necessarily the case. An open bracket means that many top players could get cheesed out by lesser players, and you will have a tournament with several terrible players not being to hold their own mechanically or strategically.
By giving people some form of organized format and structure, the top pro players can reasonably prepare for their matches and have some form of strategy and practice. And if there is some cheesing among them, at least there will be some brand name players at the top (and while you might not care, MLG definitely does because they don't want a failed event).
So, for this event, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE to have an open bracket. I don't even want to see it. I'd rather see how the pros handle the changes. At least I know pros will be able to adapt within the tournament or provide semi-decent matches from their mechanics alone.
It is absolutely the right move on MLG's part. Any tournament that has an "open" bracket within the first week of the game release is asking for trouble. HOTS isn't that much different than WOL. If some unknown wins HOTS from the open bracket, it will be because he's abusing some really overpowered strategy. The top players remain the top players.
I think you just don't get that many of us want to see established pros get cheesed out by new and unique strategies by up and coming players who have been practicing their asses off with HoTS.
you didnt have to practice your ass off to make reapers early in wol. yea some random could come up with an off the wall strategy, but any really silly upsets are more likely to just be some dumb broken thing. professional players are more likely to be able to come up with and properly execute a legitly new strategy. and from a practical standpoint if you have to have players winning for dumb reasons, it's much much better for mlg that it at least be a star player. if jonnynoname69 hellbat rushed his way to top 8 its just stupid, if flash does it it's still flash.
that being said i think its much more likely theyre doing this because of the difficulty of holding open qualifiers in a beta or hosting an open tournament 3 days after release.
On February 01 2013 05:36 mprs wrote: I will try to explain why an open bracket is NOT A GOOD THING for this particular MLG event, because MLG seems unable to do so.
By having a tournament so close to HOTS release, it is clear that it will be at such an early part of the meta game that it will essentially be just a giant cluster fuck. Top players wouldn't have had enough time to acclimate and could at any point, get cheesed out to some stupid all-in that they haven't seen yet.
Right now if you had an open bracket, ST_Life will get through with no problem, and you would expect him to do so. Why? Because the meta-game is established, he knows what to expect, and he can reasonably get to the mid game consistently, where he will outshine the players that are tiers below him. If you look at this MLG, however, that isn't necessarily the case. An open bracket means that many top players could get cheesed out by lesser players, and you will have a tournament with several terrible players not being to hold their own mechanically or strategically.
By giving people some form of organized format and structure, the top pro players can reasonably prepare for their matches and have some form of strategy and practice. And if there is some cheesing among them, at least there will be some brand name players at the top (and while you might not care, MLG definitely does because they don't want a failed event).
So, for this event, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE to have an open bracket. I don't even want to see it. I'd rather see how the pros handle the changes. At least I know pros will be able to adapt within the tournament or provide semi-decent matches from their mechanics alone.
It is absolutely the right move on MLG's part. Any tournament that has an "open" bracket within the first week of the game release is asking for trouble. HOTS isn't that much different than WOL. If some unknown wins HOTS from the open bracket, it will be because he's abusing some really overpowered strategy. The top players remain the top players.
I think you just don't get that many of us want to see established pros get cheesed out by new and unique strategies by up and coming players who have been practicing their asses off with HoTS.
you didnt have to practice your ass off to make reapers early in wol. yea some random could come up with an off the wall strategy, but any really silly upsets are more likely to just be some dumb broken thing. professional players are more likely to be able to come up with and properly execute a legitly new strategy. and from a practical standpoint if you have to have players winning for dumb reasons, it's much much better for mlg that it at least be a star player. if jonnynoname69 hellbat rushed his way to top 8 its just stupid, if flash does it it's still flash.
that being said i think its much more likely theyre doing this because of the difficulty of holding open qualifiers in a beta or hosting an open tournament 3 days after release.
Online Winter Season Showdowns The invite-only, Winter Season Showdowns features 56 of the top StarCraft II players in the world playing StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm before it is released to the public on March 12. From Monday, February 4 through Friday, March 8, each weeknight, and select Sundays, at 22:00 GMT (+00:00), MLG will broadcast one Showdown at www.majorleaguegaming.com and www.twitch.tv/team/MLG. The complete broadcast schedule is available here. The 28 players who win their Showdowns will advance to an invite-only, exhibition tournament at the Winter Championship. .
Having invite only tournament based on something that really doesn’t show who the top players are in sc2 and then marketing it as u are inviting the best of the best is misleading and also incorrect. So the statement of the showdown featuring the 56 top players of Starcraft II should be changed.
Online Winter Season Showdowns The invite-only, Winter Season Showdowns features 56 of the top StarCraft II players in the world playing StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm before it is released to the public on March 12. From Monday, February 4 through Friday, March 8, each weeknight, and select Sundays, at 22:00 GMT (+00:00), MLG will broadcast one Showdown at www.majorleaguegaming.com and www.twitch.tv/team/MLG. The complete broadcast schedule is available here. The 28 players who win their Showdowns will advance to an invite-only, exhibition tournament at the Winter Championship. .
Having invite only tournament based on something that really doesn’t show who the top players are in sc2 and then marketing it as u are inviting the best of the best is misleading and also incorrect. So the statement of the showdown featuring the 56 top players of Starcraft II should be changed.
On February 01 2013 05:36 mprs wrote: I will try to explain why an open bracket is NOT A GOOD THING for this particular MLG event, because MLG seems unable to do so.
By having a tournament so close to HOTS release, it is clear that it will be at such an early part of the meta game that it will essentially be just a giant cluster fuck. Top players wouldn't have had enough time to acclimate and could at any point, get cheesed out to some stupid all-in that they haven't seen yet.
Right now if you had an open bracket, ST_Life will get through with no problem, and you would expect him to do so. Why? Because the meta-game is established, he knows what to expect, and he can reasonably get to the mid game consistently, where he will outshine the players that are tiers below him. If you look at this MLG, however, that isn't necessarily the case. An open bracket means that many top players could get cheesed out by lesser players, and you will have a tournament with several terrible players not being to hold their own mechanically or strategically.
By giving people some form of organized format and structure, the top pro players can reasonably prepare for their matches and have some form of strategy and practice. And if there is some cheesing among them, at least there will be some brand name players at the top (and while you might not care, MLG definitely does because they don't want a failed event).
So, for this event, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE to have an open bracket. I don't even want to see it. I'd rather see how the pros handle the changes. At least I know pros will be able to adapt within the tournament or provide semi-decent matches from their mechanics alone.
It is absolutely the right move on MLG's part. Any tournament that has an "open" bracket within the first week of the game release is asking for trouble. HOTS isn't that much different than WOL. If some unknown wins HOTS from the open bracket, it will be because he's abusing some really overpowered strategy. The top players remain the top players.
I think you just don't get that many of us want to see established pros get cheesed out by new and unique strategies by up and coming players who have been practicing their asses off with HoTS.
And you just don't get that many of you are just a very vocal minority. And your scenario is even not so likely to happen. Because it's not a total new game, it's just a new expansion with some new units and features. It's not like we need to invent the wheel again with HotS.
On February 01 2013 06:15 RemarK wrote: Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups. I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who bought tickets to this event in advance, especially if they were hoping to compete.
Oh well, IPL seems willing to pick up MLG's slack so it's not the end of the world or anything, just a lose-lose situation where spectators get worse games and a bunch of talented players who are stronger than the invites don't get the chance to play in MLG.
The bad map pool is just icing on the cake
talented players like who?
Kane, hendralisk, Yong, Jookto, MaSa, Leiya, Minigun to name some of the players who are equal or higher skill than most of the invites. There's dozens more GM players on established teams as well who are equal or better than *some* of the invites.
The point being, this format is bad and unfair - some people who barely even play the game anymore stand to gain a lot of exposure whereas players who have been working their butts off practicing HotS won't even have the chance to qualify or show their skills. Having invited players is fine, don't get me wrong - but if an ENTIRE event is invites with no chance for players to qualify, and your map pool includes Blizzard experiments like Newkirk and Alkilon (maps which pretty much any high-level player will complain about) it is hard to get excited about the event. Especially when IPL is constantly improving their format and map pool - I guess at this point nothing to do but wait and see if Sundance's "I have something BETTER than an open bracket planned for future events" tweet is substantial
On February 01 2013 06:15 RemarK wrote: Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups. I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who bought tickets to this event in advance, especially if they were hoping to compete.
Oh well, IPL seems willing to pick up MLG's slack so it's not the end of the world or anything, just a lose-lose situation where spectators get worse games and a bunch of talented players who are stronger than the invites don't get the chance to play in MLG.
The bad map pool is just icing on the cake
talented players like who?
Kane, hendralisk, Yong, Jookto, MaSa, Leiya, Minigun to name some of the players who are equal or higher skill than most of the invites. There's dozens more GM players on established teams as well who are equal or better than *some* of the invites.
Online Winter Season Showdowns The invite-only, Winter Season Showdowns features 56 of the top StarCraft II players in the world playing StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm before it is released to the public on March 12. From Monday, February 4 through Friday, March 8, each weeknight, and select Sundays, at 22:00 GMT (+00:00), MLG will broadcast one Showdown at www.majorleaguegaming.com and www.twitch.tv/team/MLG. The complete broadcast schedule is available here. The 28 players who win their Showdowns will advance to an invite-only, exhibition tournament at the Winter Championship. .
Having invite only tournament based on something that really doesn’t show who the top players are in sc2 and then marketing it as u are inviting the best of the best is misleading and also incorrect. So the statement of the showdown featuring the 56 top players of Starcraft II should be changed.
You want a press release to be changed to match what you consider acceptable and factual? How much more entitled can you get that you only want to read press releases that you completely agree with?
On February 01 2013 05:36 mprs wrote: I will try to explain why an open bracket is NOT A GOOD THING for this particular MLG event, because MLG seems unable to do so.
By having a tournament so close to HOTS release, it is clear that it will be at such an early part of the meta game that it will essentially be just a giant cluster fuck. Top players wouldn't have had enough time to acclimate and could at any point, get cheesed out to some stupid all-in that they haven't seen yet.
Right now if you had an open bracket, ST_Life will get through with no problem, and you would expect him to do so. Why? Because the meta-game is established, he knows what to expect, and he can reasonably get to the mid game consistently, where he will outshine the players that are tiers below him. If you look at this MLG, however, that isn't necessarily the case. An open bracket means that many top players could get cheesed out by lesser players, and you will have a tournament with several terrible players not being to hold their own mechanically or strategically.
By giving people some form of organized format and structure, the top pro players can reasonably prepare for their matches and have some form of strategy and practice. And if there is some cheesing among them, at least there will be some brand name players at the top (and while you might not care, MLG definitely does because they don't want a failed event).
So, for this event, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE to have an open bracket. I don't even want to see it. I'd rather see how the pros handle the changes. At least I know pros will be able to adapt within the tournament or provide semi-decent matches from their mechanics alone.
It is absolutely the right move on MLG's part. Any tournament that has an "open" bracket within the first week of the game release is asking for trouble. HOTS isn't that much different than WOL. If some unknown wins HOTS from the open bracket, it will be because he's abusing some really overpowered strategy. The top players remain the top players.
I think you just don't get that many of us want to see established pros get cheesed out by new and unique strategies by up and coming players who have been practicing their asses off with HoTS.
you didnt have to practice your ass off to make reapers early in wol. yea some random could come up with an off the wall strategy, but any really silly upsets are more likely to just be some dumb broken thing. professional players are more likely to be able to come up with and properly execute a legitly new strategy. and from a practical standpoint if you have to have players winning for dumb reasons, it's much much better for mlg that it at least be a star player. if jonnynoname69 hellbat rushed his way to top 8 its just stupid, if flash does it it's still flash.
that being said i think its much more likely theyre doing this because of the difficulty of holding open qualifiers in a beta or hosting an open tournament 3 days after release.
I am really cheering for you IdrA. I'm praying to my spaghetti monster god that you advance so I can see you play versus Flash. Would be the ultimate match! Or Bomber for that matter.
The format is more of an exhibition rather than proper competition but the invited roster is decent and the prize distribution is pretty good. If it was all the way down to Ro32 it would be a proper appearance fee but this is close enough . It’s HotS anyway, there is probably little point it trying to make the results meaningful, although the prize pool could have been smaller in general and used later on in the season.
While it's nice that it's ensured that non-korean players will be in the competition I find it hilarious that you chose to call it unfair when you thought that it would be random.
But of course it's best for them to have "local" qualifiers. More non-koreans and stories, more viewers. I for one only hope for entertaining games and a good show!
On February 01 2013 06:15 RemarK wrote: Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups. I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who bought tickets to this event in advance, especially if they were hoping to compete.
Oh well, IPL seems willing to pick up MLG's slack so it's not the end of the world or anything, just a lose-lose situation where spectators get worse games and a bunch of talented players who are stronger than the invites don't get the chance to play in MLG.
The bad map pool is just icing on the cake
talented players like who?
Kane, hendralisk, Yong, Jookto, MaSa, Leiya, Minigun to name some of the players who are equal or higher skill than most of the invites. There's dozens more GM players on established teams as well who are equal or better than *some* of the invites.
The point being, this format is bad and unfair - some people who barely even play the game anymore stand to gain a lot of exposure whereas players who have been working their butts off practicing HotS won't even have the chance to qualify or show their skills. Having invited players is fine, don't get me wrong - but if an ENTIRE event is invites with no chance for players to qualify, and your map pool includes Blizzard experiments like Newkirk and Alkilon (maps which pretty much any high-level player will complain about) it is hard to get excited about the event. Especially when IPL is constantly improving their format and map pool - I guess at this point nothing to do but wait and see if Sundance's "I have something BETTER than an open bracket planned for future events" tweet is substantial
the only person i recognize is Yong as a true competitor, and would actually like to see him in the tourney. the rest i know of but dont really consider them all that great.
unfortunately, the issue we are going to see with this initial hots tournament is that people use WoL builds because they dont know the game well enough. i am particularly frustrated with the fact that flash was invited AND seeded into the final tournament. someone said a few posts back that he doesnt even play hots because of PL. seems like a shitty PR move to me.
I will be watching this, it's going to be epic. I didn't want to see the open bracket go, but hey, HOTS with awesome progamers... I'll watch that for sure.
Now god, please, please, pretty please let MKP win his match against GuMiho...
Hoping the next tourneys will have an open bracket, though...
On February 01 2013 06:15 RemarK wrote: Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups. I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who bought tickets to this event in advance, especially if they were hoping to compete.
Oh well, IPL seems willing to pick up MLG's slack so it's not the end of the world or anything, just a lose-lose situation where spectators get worse games and a bunch of talented players who are stronger than the invites don't get the chance to play in MLG.
The bad map pool is just icing on the cake
When you start your post off with “Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups,” its not a really good start. It is pretty clear you didn’t read the thread and are only here to hate on MLG and have no real argument what so ever. People don’t know if IPL is having a true open bracket and their event is still WoL, it is pretty dumb.
Also, there is no data on what is a broken or not broken map in HotS. But I am sure there are some experts out there that will tell you otherwise.
Of course I read the thread - that's how I knew the format was terrible and the matchups were laughable. I didn't say the maps were broken, I said they were bad - there's a big difference between the two statements. It's funny that you would label me as a mindless MLG-hater when I've been attending their events since 05 and defending their controversial decisions in the past. I am not a hater, in fact if anything my bias would tilt me towards siding with MLG, but this "tournament" is so silly in almost every regard that it merits commenting.
On February 01 2013 06:15 RemarK wrote: Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups. I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who bought tickets to this event in advance, especially if they were hoping to compete.
Oh well, IPL seems willing to pick up MLG's slack so it's not the end of the world or anything, just a lose-lose situation where spectators get worse games and a bunch of talented players who are stronger than the invites don't get the chance to play in MLG.
The bad map pool is just icing on the cake
talented players like who?
Kane, hendralisk, Yong, Jookto, MaSa, Leiya, Minigun to name some of the players who are equal or higher skill than most of the invites. There's dozens more GM players on established teams as well who are equal or better than *some* of the invites.
The point being, this format is bad and unfair - some people who barely even play the game anymore stand to gain a lot of exposure whereas players who have been working their butts off practicing HotS won't even have the chance to qualify or show their skills. Having invited players is fine, don't get me wrong - but if an ENTIRE event is invites with no chance for players to qualify, and your map pool includes Blizzard experiments like Newkirk and Alkilon (maps which pretty much any high-level player will complain about) it is hard to get excited about the event. Especially when IPL is constantly improving their format and map pool - I guess at this point nothing to do but wait and see if Sundance's "I have something BETTER than an open bracket planned for future events" tweet is substantial
I do not care about any of those players in any way and I could care less if they get to play. There are other events with open brackets, including MLGs.
And the system is not unfair in any way. MGL has a responsibility to their viewers to provide a good, stable and reliable event for them to enjoy. If they feel the open bracket would have a negative impact on the event due to HotS being released 3 days earlier, they shouldn’t have an open bracket. If some players don’t get to play in one MLG, that’s rough, but MLG first priority is to the viewers.
Also, IPL has not announced what their open bracket will be, but I heard on SotG it might be as small as 32 players. They have no specific information released at this point and they only announced an open bracket right after MGL said they were not going to have one.
On February 01 2013 06:15 RemarK wrote: Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups. I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who bought tickets to this event in advance, especially if they were hoping to compete.
Oh well, IPL seems willing to pick up MLG's slack so it's not the end of the world or anything, just a lose-lose situation where spectators get worse games and a bunch of talented players who are stronger than the invites don't get the chance to play in MLG.
The bad map pool is just icing on the cake
When you start your post off with “Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups,” its not a really good start. It is pretty clear you didn’t read the thread and are only here to hate on MLG and have no real argument what so ever. People don’t know if IPL is having a true open bracket and their event is still WoL, it is pretty dumb.
Also, there is no data on what is a broken or not broken map in HotS. But I am sure there are some experts out there that will tell you otherwise.
Of course I read the thread - that's how I knew the format was terrible and the matchups were laughable. I didn't say the maps were broken, I said they were bad - there's a big difference between the two statements. It's funny that you would label me as a mindless MLG-hater when I've been attending their events since 05 and defending their controversial decisions in the past. I am not a hater, in fact if anything my bias would tilt me towards siding with MLG, but this "tournament" is so silly in almost every regard that it merits commenting.
The match ups are all fair and exciting. This is just your opinion, and just stating opinion won't change anyone's mind. You stated zero reasons why the match ups or format is bad.
On February 01 2013 06:15 RemarK wrote: Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups. I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who bought tickets to this event in advance, especially if they were hoping to compete.
Oh well, IPL seems willing to pick up MLG's slack so it's not the end of the world or anything, just a lose-lose situation where spectators get worse games and a bunch of talented players who are stronger than the invites don't get the chance to play in MLG.
The bad map pool is just icing on the cake
talented players like who?
Kane, hendralisk, Yong, Jookto, MaSa, Leiya, Minigun to name some of the players who are equal or higher skill than most of the invites. There's dozens more GM players on established teams as well who are equal or better than *some* of the invites.
The point being, this format is bad and unfair - some people who barely even play the game anymore stand to gain a lot of exposure whereas players who have been working their butts off practicing HotS won't even have the chance to qualify or show their skills. Having invited players is fine, don't get me wrong - but if an ENTIRE event is invites with no chance for players to qualify, and your map pool includes Blizzard experiments like Newkirk and Alkilon (maps which pretty much any high-level player will complain about) it is hard to get excited about the event. Especially when IPL is constantly improving their format and map pool - I guess at this point nothing to do but wait and see if Sundance's "I have something BETTER than an open bracket planned for future events" tweet is substantial
This is exactly the point. They invited 14 american pros, and none of them are going to win it. Just like everybody else from your list, they would get rolled by the second Korean at the very latest. And if they wouldn't (although they most certainly would), they will have a lot of time to prove themselves in the months to come. MLG is inaugurating HotS and they ensure they have well known, and many of the very best players to for HIGHER viewership. People dont care what a random american semi pro does in a couple of games, because he will be back to sucking in no time, as koreans and top foreigners surge past him. Instead lets look what pros who we know are gifted with the game can do when its new to majority of them of them (vs joe the 6month beta experience). I mean to want open bracket in this event is actually masochistic.
On February 01 2013 06:57 Plansix wrote: I do not care about any of those players in any way and I could care less if they get to play. There are other events with open brackets, including MLGs.
And the system is not unfair in any way. MGL has a responsibility to their viewers to provide a good, stable and reliable event for them to enjoy. If they feel the open bracket would have a negative impact on the event due to HotS being released 3 days earlier, they shouldn’t have an open bracket. If some players don’t get to play in one MLG, that’s rough, but MLG first priority is to the viewers.
Also, IPL has not announced what their open bracket will be, but I heard on SotG it might be as small as 32 players. They have no specific information released at this point and they only announced an open bracket right after MGL said they were not going to have one.
That's fine then, you can watch your showmatches and enjoy them to your heart's content - you're kind of ignoring the points that I'm making, which is that there are players who are better than the people who got invited who won't have the chance to even go through a single qualifier bracket to play.
IPL's open bracket is going to be larger than 32 players (not by a ton) and they are releasing the information for their HotS open bracket + other stuff tomorrow.
Just because you don't care about anyone in the scene other than these invited players doesn't mean that it's good to have an arbitrary and exclusive format - if you can't realize that or the implications of this, then there is nothing more I can say to enlighten you.
I don't like it, too. There should be at least open online qualifiers for such an event, even though it's most likely that known players would win these tournaments. In sports, everybody should have the chance to compete.
On February 01 2013 06:15 RemarK wrote: Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups. I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who bought tickets to this event in advance, especially if they were hoping to compete.
Oh well, IPL seems willing to pick up MLG's slack so it's not the end of the world or anything, just a lose-lose situation where spectators get worse games and a bunch of talented players who are stronger than the invites don't get the chance to play in MLG.
The bad map pool is just icing on the cake
When you start your post off with “Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups,” its not a really good start. It is pretty clear you didn’t read the thread and are only here to hate on MLG and have no real argument what so ever. People don’t know if IPL is having a true open bracket and their event is still WoL, it is pretty dumb.
Also, there is no data on what is a broken or not broken map in HotS. But I am sure there are some experts out there that will tell you otherwise.
Of course I read the thread - that's how I knew the format was terrible and the matchups were laughable. I didn't say the maps were broken, I said they were bad - there's a big difference between the two statements. It's funny that you would label me as a mindless MLG-hater when I've been attending their events since 05 and defending their controversial decisions in the past. I am not a hater, in fact if anything my bias would tilt me towards siding with MLG, but this "tournament" is so silly in almost every regard that it merits commenting.
You provide no evidence to back that up what so ever. Just saying the “matchups were laughable” again does not make what you are saying fact or strengthen your augment in any way. MLG provided a number of reasons why there is no open bracket for this event, which you do not address in any way either. The maps for HotS are going to be bad, because there are no good maps at this point. However, MLG should not use the current map pool everyone has been using, since all of those maps are over played and boring as hell. New is good, because SC2 has gotten a bit stale of late.
So I stand by my statement that you are complaining to complain.
Online Winter Season Showdowns The invite-only, Winter Season Showdowns features 56 of the top StarCraft II players in the world playing StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm before it is released to the public on March 12. From Monday, February 4 through Friday, March 8, each weeknight, and select Sundays, at 22:00 GMT (+00:00), MLG will broadcast one Showdown at www.majorleaguegaming.com and www.twitch.tv/team/MLG. The complete broadcast schedule is available here. The 28 players who win their Showdowns will advance to an invite-only, exhibition tournament at the Winter Championship. .
Having invite only tournament based on something that really doesn’t show who the top players are in sc2 and then marketing it as u are inviting the best of the best is misleading and also incorrect. So the statement of the showdown featuring the 56 top players of Starcraft II should be changed.
You want a press release to be changed to match what you consider acceptable and factual? How much more entitled can you get that you only want to read press releases that you completely agree with?
Having a arrogant answer from someone that don’t seem to realize that this in a forum where people actually present opinion on stuff.
Like i said should be changed but whatever that is right and wrong is another thing and whatever they do it or not is also another thing. Your welcome to have your opinion of me being unreasonable don’t actually do me anything at all
On February 01 2013 06:15 RemarK wrote: Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups. I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who bought tickets to this event in advance, especially if they were hoping to compete.
Oh well, IPL seems willing to pick up MLG's slack so it's not the end of the world or anything, just a lose-lose situation where spectators get worse games and a bunch of talented players who are stronger than the invites don't get the chance to play in MLG.
The bad map pool is just icing on the cake
talented players like who?
Kane, hendralisk, Yong, Jookto, MaSa, Leiya, Minigun to name some of the players who are equal or higher skill than most of the invites. There's dozens more GM players on established teams as well who are equal or better than *some* of the invites.
The point being, this format is bad and unfair - some people who barely even play the game anymore stand to gain a lot of exposure whereas players who have been working their butts off practicing HotS won't even have the chance to qualify or show their skills. Having invited players is fine, don't get me wrong - but if an ENTIRE event is invites with no chance for players to qualify, and your map pool includes Blizzard experiments like Newkirk and Alkilon (maps which pretty much any high-level player will complain about) it is hard to get excited about the event. Especially when IPL is constantly improving their format and map pool - I guess at this point nothing to do but wait and see if Sundance's "I have something BETTER than an open bracket planned for future events" tweet is substantial
This is exactly the point. They invited 14 american pros, and none of them are going to win it. Just like everybody else from your list, they would get rolled by the second Korean at the very latest. And if they wouldn't (although they most certainly would), they will have a lot of time to prove themselves in the months to come. MLG is inaugurating HotS and they ensure they have well known, and many of the very best players to for HIGHER viewership. People dont care what a random american semi pro does in a couple of games, because he will be back to sucking in no time, as koreans and top foreigners surge past him. Instead lets look what pros who we know are gifted with the game can do when its new to majority of them of them (vs joe the 6month beta experience). I mean to want open bracket in this event is actually masochistic.
Never said I wanted an open bracket - just that having ONLY invited players is a flawed and unfair format, especially when you look at the skill level of some of the invited players. Even having a mere 1-2 spots available per region through online qualifiers (which are pretty goddamn simple to run) would solve a lot of the complaints about the format.
Just because a Korean is probably going to win the event doesn't really address the issue of why arbitrary invites of players (they even sent invites to retired players for crying out loud) is bad. I'm all for foreigner affirmative action, but this isn't the right way to do it
On February 01 2013 06:57 Plansix wrote: I do not care about any of those players in any way and I could care less if they get to play. There are other events with open brackets, including MLGs.
And the system is not unfair in any way. MGL has a responsibility to their viewers to provide a good, stable and reliable event for them to enjoy. If they feel the open bracket would have a negative impact on the event due to HotS being released 3 days earlier, they shouldn’t have an open bracket. If some players don’t get to play in one MLG, that’s rough, but MLG first priority is to the viewers.
Also, IPL has not announced what their open bracket will be, but I heard on SotG it might be as small as 32 players. They have no specific information released at this point and they only announced an open bracket right after MGL said they were not going to have one.
That's fine then, you can watch your showmatches and enjoy them to your heart's content - you're kind of ignoring the points that I'm making, which is that there are players who are better than the people who got invited who won't have the chance to even go through a single qualifier bracket to play.
IPL's open bracket is going to be larger than 32 players (not by a ton) and they are releasing the information for their HotS open bracket + other stuff tomorrow.
Just because you don't care about anyone in the scene other than these invited players doesn't mean that it's good to have an arbitrary and exclusive format - if you can't realize that or the implications of this, then there is nothing more I can say to enlighten you.
If a slightly larger than 32 player open bracket is the key feature in an event for you, I guess MLG was never going to make you happy. As for your points, I have read them, but I don’t think they are very good. This is a single event and MLG has clearly stated that the open bracket was removed due to release of HotS being so close. Guess what? Blizzard is only releasing HotS one time, so after that MGL can have the open bracket again and everything with be sunshine and roses.
That is my major problem with people complaining about the lack of an open bracket. MLG had a totally reasonable issue that HotS release date is so close that it would negatively impact the event and they took steps to avoid that. But for some reason people are complaining that their favorite, obscure SC2 semi-pro won’t be able to play and get knocked out by a Code S Korean in the open bracket, for this ONE EVENT.
It reminds me of the people in the SotG thread who complain that the time of the show is bad for people in Europe. Like the host have control of the sun or when they need to go to work.
Online Winter Season Showdowns The invite-only, Winter Season Showdowns features 56 of the top StarCraft II players in the world playing StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm before it is released to the public on March 12. From Monday, February 4 through Friday, March 8, each weeknight, and select Sundays, at 22:00 GMT (+00:00), MLG will broadcast one Showdown at www.majorleaguegaming.com and www.twitch.tv/team/MLG. The complete broadcast schedule is available here. The 28 players who win their Showdowns will advance to an invite-only, exhibition tournament at the Winter Championship. .
Having invite only tournament based on something that really doesn’t show who the top players are in sc2 and then marketing it as u are inviting the best of the best is misleading and also incorrect. So the statement of the showdown featuring the 56 top players of Starcraft II should be changed.
You want a press release to be changed to match what you consider acceptable and factual? How much more entitled can you get that you only want to read press releases that you completely agree with?
Having a arrogant answer from someone that don’t seem to realize that this in a forum where people actually present opinion on stuff.
Like i said should be changed but whatever that is right and wrong is another thing and whatever they do it or not is also another thing. Your welcome to have your opinion of me being unreasonable don’t actually do me anything at all
Maybe I'm stupid but
The invite-only, Winter Season Showdowns features 56 of the top StarCraft II players in the world playing StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm before it is released to the public on March 12.
It doesn't say featuring THE 56 TOP PLAYERS OF SC2. It says feature 56 OF THE TOP SC2 PLAYERS.
If you don't see how that is actually accurate, I don't know what else to say.
While it's nice that it's ensured that non-korean players will be in the competition I find it hilarious that you chose to call it unfair when you thought that it would be random.
But of course it's best for them to have "local" qualifiers. More non-koreans and stories, more viewers. I for one only hope for entertaining games and a good show!
edit: Also: Excited, MLG!
I should have said unlucky instead of unfair but it is irrelevant now
On February 01 2013 06:57 Plansix wrote: I do not care about any of those players in any way and I could care less if they get to play. There are other events with open brackets, including MLGs.
And the system is not unfair in any way. MGL has a responsibility to their viewers to provide a good, stable and reliable event for them to enjoy. If they feel the open bracket would have a negative impact on the event due to HotS being released 3 days earlier, they shouldn’t have an open bracket. If some players don’t get to play in one MLG, that’s rough, but MLG first priority is to the viewers.
Also, IPL has not announced what their open bracket will be, but I heard on SotG it might be as small as 32 players. They have no specific information released at this point and they only announced an open bracket right after MGL said they were not going to have one.
That's fine then, you can watch your showmatches and enjoy them to your heart's content - you're kind of ignoring the points that I'm making, which is that there are players who are better than the people who got invited who won't have the chance to even go through a single qualifier bracket to play.
IPL's open bracket is going to be larger than 32 players (not by a ton) and they are releasing the information for their HotS open bracket + other stuff tomorrow.
Just because you don't care about anyone in the scene other than these invited players doesn't mean that it's good to have an arbitrary and exclusive format - if you can't realize that or the implications of this, then there is nothing more I can say to enlighten you.
Do you have some kind of inside information that you're not telling us about that noone of these "better players" just declined their invites cause they'll be playing only wol up to this point?
On February 01 2013 06:57 Plansix wrote: I do not care about any of those players in any way and I could care less if they get to play. There are other events with open brackets, including MLGs.
And the system is not unfair in any way. MGL has a responsibility to their viewers to provide a good, stable and reliable event for them to enjoy. If they feel the open bracket would have a negative impact on the event due to HotS being released 3 days earlier, they shouldn’t have an open bracket. If some players don’t get to play in one MLG, that’s rough, but MLG first priority is to the viewers.
Also, IPL has not announced what their open bracket will be, but I heard on SotG it might be as small as 32 players. They have no specific information released at this point and they only announced an open bracket right after MGL said they were not going to have one.
That's fine then, you can watch your showmatches and enjoy them to your heart's content - you're kind of ignoring the points that I'm making, which is that there are players who are better than the people who got invited who won't have the chance to even go through a single qualifier bracket to play.
IPL's open bracket is going to be larger than 32 players (not by a ton) and they are releasing the information for their HotS open bracket + other stuff tomorrow.
Just because you don't care about anyone in the scene other than these invited players doesn't mean that it's good to have an arbitrary and exclusive format - if you can't realize that or the implications of this, then there is nothing more I can say to enlighten you.
1. You don't know which players declined invites. 2. get over it. no invite tournament is perfect. MLG didn't want to do an invite tournament, but with where HotS is at the moment, there isn't a whole lot they can do about it. As long as the rest of the events are open, its really not a big deal. There will be plenty of events for everyone to play in, including MLGs. This MLG being an invite is not killing esports. Its not destroying careers. Its just a minor bump in the road.
On February 01 2013 07:22 Plansix wrote: If a slightly larger than 32 player open bracket is the key feature in an event for you, I guess MLG was never going to make you happy. As for your points, I have read them, but I don’t think they are very good. This is a single event and MLG has clearly stated that the open bracket was removed due to release of HotS being so close. Guess what? Blizzard is only releasing HotS one time, so after that MGL can have the open bracket again and everything with be sunshine and roses.
That is my major problem with people complaining about the lack of an open bracket. MLG had a totally reasonable issue that HotS release date is so close that it would negatively impact the event and they took steps to avoid that. But for some reason people are complaining that their favorite, obscure SC2 semi-pro won’t be able to play and get knocked out by a Code S Korean in the open bracket, for this ONE EVENT.
It reminds me of the people in the SotG thread who complain that the time of the show is bad for people in Europe. Like the host have control of the sun or when they need to go to work.
Nowhere have I said that I give a shit about having an open bracket, just that having an event which is entirely composed of arbitrarily invited players is bad and unfair.
Your argumentative process so far has consisted of ignoring everything I say, putting words in my mouth, and now comparing me to people who complain about the timezones of SotG (lol). The fact that you keep telling me to stop complaining about the lack of an open bracket when that hasn't even been something I complained about is very discouraging. Like talking with an especially stubborn and unintelligent brick wall
On February 01 2013 06:57 Plansix wrote: I do not care about any of those players in any way and I could care less if they get to play. There are other events with open brackets, including MLGs.
And the system is not unfair in any way. MGL has a responsibility to their viewers to provide a good, stable and reliable event for them to enjoy. If they feel the open bracket would have a negative impact on the event due to HotS being released 3 days earlier, they shouldn’t have an open bracket. If some players don’t get to play in one MLG, that’s rough, but MLG first priority is to the viewers.
Also, IPL has not announced what their open bracket will be, but I heard on SotG it might be as small as 32 players. They have no specific information released at this point and they only announced an open bracket right after MGL said they were not going to have one.
That's fine then, you can watch your showmatches and enjoy them to your heart's content - you're kind of ignoring the points that I'm making, which is that there are players who are better than the people who got invited who won't have the chance to even go through a single qualifier bracket to play.
IPL's open bracket is going to be larger than 32 players (not by a ton) and they are releasing the information for their HotS open bracket + other stuff tomorrow.
Just because you don't care about anyone in the scene other than these invited players doesn't mean that it's good to have an arbitrary and exclusive format - if you can't realize that or the implications of this, then there is nothing more I can say to enlighten you.
Do you have some kind of inside information that you're not telling us about that noone of these "better players" just declined their invites cause they'll be playing only wol up to this point?
I don't know if he does, but I found this in his profile:
On May 02 2012 10:57 RemarK wrote: Hey everyone!
I'm RemarK, a grandmaster Protoss on the NA server. I come from an FPS background (competitive Halo player for 5+ years), and I switched to SC2 starting December 2010.
I'll be streaming ladder and tournament games, the occasional casting of showmatches or practice games, plus playing other games (like Super Meat Boy, Bastion, and Halo 4) for fun on my stream.
Season 10: Rank 43 Grandmaster Season 9: Rank 102 Grandmaster Season 8: Rank 82 Grandmaster
Ro32 IPL6 Amateur Qualifier (2-0 over STBrain, 0-2 vs STPanic) Top 16 AGL August Invitational SPGL Season 1 Nationals Top 12 Top 16 AGL June Invitational Top 16 Streamer’s Community Choice Tournament 2nd Place The Redditor Cup (3-1 over Sasquatch, 2-4 vs JonSnow) Winner Multitude Gaming Open A Winner SpaceWhales Showmatch Series vs Glon (2-1) Winner AGL August Qualifier #1 (3-0 over pulseKitty) Winner HeXp Open #3 Winner Wonkman’s $20 Online Tournament Winner rCraftGaming Open 17 LBR4 MLG Raleigh 2012 LBR4 MLG Anaheim 2011 ISTL Season 1 MVP Stanford University CSL team ace player ISTL Season 3 Finalist (Perfect record up to the finals, including winning double kill against Western Wolves)
Cheers, RemarK
I wonder if the reason he is mad the open bracket was removed was because he can't play in it? Or maybe he is looking out for the good of us all and the quality of the event. But I doubt it.
On February 01 2013 07:22 Plansix wrote: If a slightly larger than 32 player open bracket is the key feature in an event for you, I guess MLG was never going to make you happy. As for your points, I have read them, but I don’t think they are very good. This is a single event and MLG has clearly stated that the open bracket was removed due to release of HotS being so close. Guess what? Blizzard is only releasing HotS one time, so after that MGL can have the open bracket again and everything with be sunshine and roses.
That is my major problem with people complaining about the lack of an open bracket. MLG had a totally reasonable issue that HotS release date is so close that it would negatively impact the event and they took steps to avoid that. But for some reason people are complaining that their favorite, obscure SC2 semi-pro won’t be able to play and get knocked out by a Code S Korean in the open bracket, for this ONE EVENT.
It reminds me of the people in the SotG thread who complain that the time of the show is bad for people in Europe. Like the host have control of the sun or when they need to go to work.
Nowhere have I said that I give a shit about having an open bracket, just that having an event which is entirely composed of arbitrarily invited players is bad and unfair.
Your argumentative process so far has consisted of ignoring everything I say, putting words in my mouth, and now comparing me to people who complain about the timezones of SotG (lol). The fact that you keep telling me to stop complaining about the lack of an open bracket when that hasn't even been something I complained about is very discouraging. Like talking with an especially stubborn and unintelligent brick wall
Is is unfair because because you can't play? Because after reviewing your profile, that seems to be the main reason you are upset. While valid and a good reason, I think everyone has made some good points why MLG is pretty justified the lack of an open bracket. Maybe next MLG you will get to play, or at IPL.
On February 01 2013 07:36 Plansix wrote: I wonder if the reason he is mad the open bracket was removed was because he can't play in it? Or maybe he is looking out for the good of us all and the quality of the event. But I doubt it.
No.... I wouldn't qualify, I'm the first person who will tell you that I'm trash. Again, it's not a loss to me, because IPL has qualifiers + open bracket for me to participate and do poorly in. But it is a loss for people who are much better than me and some of the invited players who don't get the chance to show their skills in a premier international league
Edit: you can think what you want, although going through my posting history and bringing stuff from other threads (while still ignoring everything I say) is kinda sad
On February 01 2013 06:57 Plansix wrote: I do not care about any of those players in any way and I could care less if they get to play. There are other events with open brackets, including MLGs.
And the system is not unfair in any way. MGL has a responsibility to their viewers to provide a good, stable and reliable event for them to enjoy. If they feel the open bracket would have a negative impact on the event due to HotS being released 3 days earlier, they shouldn’t have an open bracket. If some players don’t get to play in one MLG, that’s rough, but MLG first priority is to the viewers.
Also, IPL has not announced what their open bracket will be, but I heard on SotG it might be as small as 32 players. They have no specific information released at this point and they only announced an open bracket right after MGL said they were not going to have one.
That's fine then, you can watch your showmatches and enjoy them to your heart's content - you're kind of ignoring the points that I'm making, which is that there are players who are better than the people who got invited who won't have the chance to even go through a single qualifier bracket to play.
IPL's open bracket is going to be larger than 32 players (not by a ton) and they are releasing the information for their HotS open bracket + other stuff tomorrow.
Just because you don't care about anyone in the scene other than these invited players doesn't mean that it's good to have an arbitrary and exclusive format - if you can't realize that or the implications of this, then there is nothing more I can say to enlighten you.
Do you have some kind of inside information that you're not telling us about that noone of these "better players" just declined their invites cause they'll be playing only wol up to this point?
I don't know if he does, but I found this in his profile:
I'm RemarK, a grandmaster Protoss on the NA server. I come from an FPS background (competitive Halo player for 5+ years), and I switched to SC2 starting December 2010.
I'll be streaming ladder and tournament games, the occasional casting of showmatches or practice games, plus playing other games (like Super Meat Boy, Bastion, and Halo 4) for fun on my stream.
Season 10: Rank 43 Grandmaster Season 9: Rank 102 Grandmaster Season 8: Rank 82 Grandmaster
Ro32 IPL6 Amateur Qualifier (2-0 over STBrain, 0-2 vs STPanic) Top 16 AGL August Invitational SPGL Season 1 Nationals Top 12 Top 16 AGL June Invitational Top 16 Streamer’s Community Choice Tournament 2nd Place The Redditor Cup (3-1 over Sasquatch, 2-4 vs JonSnow) Winner Multitude Gaming Open A Winner SpaceWhales Showmatch Series vs Glon (2-1) Winner AGL August Qualifier #1 (3-0 over pulseKitty) Winner HeXp Open #3 Winner Wonkman’s $20 Online Tournament Winner rCraftGaming Open 17 LBR4 MLG Raleigh 2012 LBR4 MLG Anaheim 2011 ISTL Season 1 MVP Stanford University CSL team ace player ISTL Season 3 Finalist (Perfect record up to the finals, including winning double kill against Western Wolves)
Cheers, RemarK
I wonder if the reason he is mad the open bracket was removed was because he can't play in it? Or maybe he is looking out for the good of us all and the quality of the event. But I doubt it.
Yeah, it's so stupid to have an event with Life, Flash, Bomber, Leenock and potentially a bunch of both some of the most skilled players in the world like Parting, RorO, Polt or even some of the most hard working hots practicers like IdrA or GuMiHo play a new game with hours and hours of easily accessable content leading up to a live event with a decent price pool. Who would want to watch that, MLG should know that everything the fans care about is that SentryImmortalAllinEveryGame, the great EU gm protoss and BanelingBustingWithoutManagingToInjectLarvaeOn2Hatches the fantastic NA zerg gets to play in a qualifier...
So much bitterness and hate in this thread; MLG is definitely the EG of tournament organizers :D
Looking forward to some great matches and whatever new streaming options were alluded to by the MLG guys in the thread. Are there any benefits of being a gold member for these tournaments?
On one hand, Scarlett vs Goswser (two players who made quarterfinals in Iron Squid), on the other hand IdrA-Ddoro, Fenix State and ViBE-Illusion. How can this be fair ?
On February 01 2013 08:15 Boucot wrote: On one hand, Scarlett vs Goswser (two players who made quarterfinals in Iron Squid), on the other hand IdrA-Ddoro, Fenix State and ViBE-Illusion. How can this be fair ?
Shut up and support eSports it's only for one event anyone who complains or criticizes hates MLG
On February 01 2013 08:15 Boucot wrote: On one hand, Scarlett vs Goswser (two players who made quarterfinals in Iron Squid), on the other hand IdrA-Ddoro, Fenix State and ViBE-Illusion. How can this be fair ?
To me those look like balanced match-ups, so they're kind of fair.
On February 01 2013 07:48 Ruscour wrote: Taiwan is in SEA now?
Moonglade and Sen are both worthy and deserving of invites and there really isn't anyone else even close geographically. I guess they just figured it was close enough.
On February 01 2013 07:48 proofy wrote: Another disappointment. MLG going downhill fast.
ahhhhh no To be honest the community is the let down this time, if they can't understand why this is happening then they just shouldn't watch, everyone has enjoyed MLG many many times but no one has faith that this will work and are immediately throwing it to the side as a failure which is absolutely ridiculous.
On February 01 2013 02:16 KiF1rE wrote: How is the showdown thing based on HOTS accomplishments? How many of those players have won a tournament or broke rank 2 GM in HOTS? As ive done both(granted small tournament but w/e there isnt much atm MLG is the first big event for it lol)... Just seems like claiming " top StarCraft II players in the world based on recent performances playing StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm" is kind of flawed and its just a sheer invitational everyone that's popular or did well in MLG with WoL with that player list.
regardless was expecting for some form of announcement to make up for the lack of open bracket, And as a competitor what is my Gold membership now useful for? As clearly I cant compete or sign up for anything now... making my gold relatively useless.
So because you made GM in a beta where none of the top SC2 players in the world are playing, because, well, it's a friggin beta and they have actual tournaments to play and practice for, you think you deserve to get invited to a tournament with a 25K 1st place prize? Seriously?...
You think the reason this tournament exists, the people who will actually tune in to watch, would rather watch you than DRG or Flash? You think we care whether they ever got GM in HotS, or won a HotS tournament?
Get over yourself...
Its not about that. Having an open brackets serves different purposes. ANYONE can register and have a shot at it. It does not matter that its impossible but the opportunity to try it no matter the odds and to see how far you can go is a very important thing. Its also kind of tied with the whole big problem of Starcraft in general being too hard for people to get in to and it doesn't help neither the fans/community/newcomers or the players and events overall themselves. Its always way more amazing to see a random player or low rated one, make it out of the hell of open bracket and kick serious ass in the group stage than to start with a very bleak invite only setup. I really hope MLG will understand in the future how important the open bracket system is for everyone and the betterment of starcraft esports in general. Stop fighting and trying to be different than your opponent (IPL) and actualy learn and improve and offer the best esports experience fans can get.
P.S. For MLG : You need to up your standards and the quality of your production in general. Stop being so greedy and charge so much. You have no ideea how many fans from different parts of the world are eager to buy tickets for MLG but are turned off by the exagerated prices prolly calculated for the average american that just slumps in the couch 24/7 and money falls from the sky for him. You market yourself heavily towards a certain audience while shutting down other potentialy bigger ones. Also learn from Dreamhack and other events. I doubt its that impossibly hard to organize such epic events as they do. And ultimately don't forget why you are doing all you are doing in the first place. If you let greed and other aspects take over the passion for the game and community itself, you won't live long.
I think Invite only makes a lot of sense for the first month of HotS tournaments since the switch from WoL -> HotS punishes pros who have been focusing on WoL. Many pros have SC2 as their source of income, so think of it as protecting them during an awkward transition phrase. If legitimately good players who haven't broken into the scene yet are playing HotS exclusively, they'll do fine during later open brackets.
An open bracket in this tournament would be a cluster. HoTS will virtually be a hard reset of the game. Unknown players could take out veteran pro's just because of the huge meta change. I think this tournament will be one of the best MLG's to date. It will be exciting to see new strategies and crazy situations like we did around the beginning of WoL. Remember that horrid Slayers hellion marine drop while gave every zerg nightmares?
On February 01 2013 02:33 MLG_Adam wrote: Again. We want aspiration, we want open qualification, we want success stories, how can you say anything different based on our track record?
This event is 3 days after a major content release. Qualification is taking place on BETA servers. We wanted to have open online qualification for this event but it was not a logistical reality.
We are not done announcing 2013 plans. Have faith.
I have to agree.
Also, speaking of online qualification, I'm curious that no one has talked about Blizzard adding something to make it easier for tournament organizers.
It'd be neat if you could (on battle.net) create a tournament (like creating groups and clans), invite people, set up brackets (set up whether single elimination, double, etc), set time limit and date for when the players should play (or make it so the players can play anytime within a certain deadline), etc, make it fully customizable.
Then, the players just play each other (making sure to use the tournament system to play the games rather than using the default custom games), then wins and loses will be recorded automatically and easily, with no need for a referee or observer (or sending replays for someone to look over).
Of course the only potential problem is things like disconnects and stuff but they could solve that by adding some reconnect feature or a have a "call referee button" (which would require said referee to be on battle.net during the tournament of course) that calls someone who's listed as a referee (by the tournament system in battle.net).
Sounds complicated, and hard to do but it'd be definitely worth it if Blizzard adds something like this to battle.net (maybe in LotV).
I guess the closest thing like it in a game (that I know of) is maybe Super Smash Bros Brawl (though no one used it mainly because it wasn't that customizable and in actual tournaments, you'll be hoping from console to console often instead of using the same one). I'm sure other games have something similar to this too (that is, customizable tournaments that you could use to set up qualifiers or maybe the actual main tournament itself).
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS where the chances of this happening are greater than ever.
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS.
On February 01 2013 09:17 number01 wrote: not be watching it if there are no open brackets.
You'll be watching.
Actually I rather think everybody's gonna be watching. Those showdowns are going to be a full month of entertainment, and there's gonna be some epic matches before the MLG even begins. Best of 5's should be much more fun than the early round best of 3's and it's nice to be able to see them all, rather than only having a few streams while everyone plays.
I think it's a pretty good format, honestly. Add in a open bracket (which will likely come in later events when they have a stable server) and let the losers of the showdowns enter it with everybody else, and it's basically everything I want in an MLG from a entertainment standpoint.
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS.
You'll be watching.
Really? This is all you have to add? How childish can you be here?
completely agree.
Give an unknown a fair chance to win the competition as well in the early stages of the game where everyone has the similar mechanics.
Love the people saying they won't watch because of no open bracket which is usually predictable with tons if bad games. Then you aren't an SC2 fan.
Let me get this straight, 32 of the most known players from all regions of the world competing 2 weeks after a major Blizzard expansion for 75k, trying to navigate all the new units and meta which will be developing essentially on the fly during the weekend? Yeah let me get right to complaining!
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS.
You'll be watching.
Really? This is all you have to add? How childish can you be here?
completely agree.
Give an unknown a fair chance to win the competition as well in the early stages of the game where everyone has the similar mechanics.
On February 01 2013 09:37 FLuE wrote: Love the people saying they won't watch because of no open bracket which is usually predictable with tons if bad games. Then you aren't an SC2 fan.
Let me get this straight, 32 of the most known players from all regions of the world competing 2 weeks after a major Blizzard expansion for 75k, trying to navigate all the new units and meta which will be developing essentially on the fly during the weekend? Yeah let me get right to complaining!
this dude not the smartest tool in the shed right? smh
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS.
You'll be watching.
Really? This is all you have to add? How childish can you be here?
completely agree.
Give an unknown a fair chance to win the competition as well in the early stages of the game where everyone has the similar mechanics.
You're not going to be watching the first premier HotS tournament in history because there is no open bracket for NA masters players to try and cheese pro's only to fail? You don't want to see top players like Parting, Flash, Taeja, Hero, Life play their first ever HotS tournament??? I find that hard to believe.
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS.
You'll be watching.
Really? This is all you have to add? How childish can you be here?
completely agree.
Give an unknown a fair chance to win the competition as well in the early stages of the game where everyone has the similar mechanics.
You're not going to be watching the first premier HotS tournament in history because there is no open bracket for NA masters players to try and cheese pro's only to fail? You don't want to see top players like Parting, Flash, Taeja, Hero, Life play their first ever HotS tournament??? I find that hard to believe.
You can believe anything that you want, especially create your own reality when i did not say anything that you posted above.
I wont be watching because there is really no incentive to watch it. I can see these pro players play anytime in future tournaments. Especially once HOTS gets more stable. The opportunity to see a bunch of unknowns take and beat professional players in the early stages is something that you wont get to see again. Especially once the pro players mechanics reach their best level.
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS.
You'll be watching.
Really? This is all you have to add? How childish can you be here?
completely agree.
Give an unknown a fair chance to win the competition as well in the early stages of the game where everyone has the similar mechanics.
not their problem. their tournament, their rules.
true but we are the viewers
you are _a_ viewer. their obligation is to get as many viewers as possible. i imagine their current system will maximize viewers much more than having an open bracket the day of the final tournament. indeed, i think spreading it out is going to considerably increase their numbers. so, smart by them.
We are just voicing our opinions, if we didn't. MLG might think its cool to never hold another tourney with an open bracket. I for one will be watching less because I like to cheer on the underdog. Not some no name masters player, but a high GM NA player.
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS.
You'll be watching.
Really? This is all you have to add? How childish can you be here?
completely agree.
Give an unknown a fair chance to win the competition as well in the early stages of the game where everyone has the similar mechanics.
not their problem. their tournament, their rules.
true but we are the viewers
you are _a_ viewer. their obligation is to get as many viewers as possible. i imagine their current system will maximize viewers much more than having an open bracket the day of the final tournament. indeed, i think spreading it out is going to considerably increase their numbers. so, smart by them.
Not with attending the championship - you 'might' get to meet some pro gamers. Maybe. But not like when there is a 100 player open bracket. Then there is a good reason to go, because it is very likely you meet and greet pro gamers.
MLG Fail in my opinion.
Open brackets bring in new talent, and let gamers shine, upsets happen and great games occur.
If it is invite only, might as well as change the name to MLV - Major league viewing - because not much gaming will happen.
Also, no open bracket means LOTS and LOTS of time in between game for those AWESOME and epic commercials I really do love to watch, sometimes 10 times in a row. I really love it towards the finals when they are on repeat.
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS where the chances of this happening are greater than ever.
On February 01 2013 09:17 number01 wrote: not be watching it if there are no open brackets.
You'll be watching.
Really? This is all you have to add? How childish can you be here?
Same goes for you, you'll also watch the very first HotS tournament. OB provides a lot of BYE's, uninteresting and one-sided games and the vast majority of them aren't even streamed anyway. Half of the players are white dudes, if anything this ONE-TIME format is a better opportunity (charity?) for semi-pros than the usual OB.
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS.
You'll be watching.
Really? This is all you have to add? How childish can you be here?
completely agree.
Give an unknown a fair chance to win the competition as well in the early stages of the game where everyone has the similar mechanics.
not their problem. their tournament, their rules.
true but we are the viewers
you are _a_ viewer. their obligation is to get as many viewers as possible. i imagine their current system will maximize viewers much more than having an open bracket the day of the final tournament. indeed, i think spreading it out is going to considerably increase their numbers. so, smart by them.
it better.
It will, even without you(which I find doubtful you won't watch). If MLG said they were having an open bracket, but doing away with booths on the main stage, the same number of people would complain(or more, who knows). There is a fix number of people in the community that bitch about everything and they will always be upset about some Esports injustice.
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS.
You'll be watching.
Really? This is all you have to add? How childish can you be here?
completely agree.
Give an unknown a fair chance to win the competition as well in the early stages of the game where everyone has the similar mechanics.
not their problem. their tournament, their rules.
true but we are the viewers
you are _a_ viewer. their obligation is to get as many viewers as possible. i imagine their current system will maximize viewers much more than having an open bracket the day of the final tournament. indeed, i think spreading it out is going to considerably increase their numbers. so, smart by them.
it better.
It will, even without you(which I find doubtful you won't watch). If MLG said they were having an open bracket, but doing away with booths on the main stage, the same number of people would complain(or more, who knows). There is a fix number of people in the community that bitch about everything and they will always be upset about some Esports injustice.
i dont think you even read any of my posts or other people's posts. If there was some way to block people like you i would do it.
This is fucking disgusting. No point in amateurs coming up now with open brackets being demolished and minor tournaments nearly completely disappearing. Is this really the turn you guys want to take? I'm so disappointed in this community right now, even the online qualifiers are fucking invite only. Woooow.
I'm actually looking forward to these Showmatches. Seems like it would benefit teams a bit not having to send out players to the open bracket due to it being online. Although it doesn't really give the chance for Up and comers, It has way to many big names to even complain. I'd prefer to watch 2 Great players than Stephano vs an Up & Comer ( Basically I mean potential one sided games. ).
I Watch MLG for the very highest level of gameplay and I'm glad this is the route they take.
Guys chill out, only the first HotS tournament is putting aside the open bracket. Just because the game is new. A lot of people won't like that, but it's just 1 season.
On February 01 2013 10:20 Maesy wrote: This is fucking disgusting. No point in amateurs coming up now with open brackets being demolished and minor tournaments nearly completely disappearing. Is this really the turn you guys want to take? I'm so disappointed in this community right now, even the online qualifiers are fucking invite only. Woooow.
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS.
You'll be watching.
Really? This is all you have to add? How childish can you be here?
completely agree.
Give an unknown a fair chance to win the competition as well in the early stages of the game where everyone has the similar mechanics.
not their problem. their tournament, their rules.
true but we are the viewers
you are _a_ viewer. their obligation is to get as many viewers as possible. i imagine their current system will maximize viewers much more than having an open bracket the day of the final tournament. indeed, i think spreading it out is going to considerably increase their numbers. so, smart by them.
it better.
It will, even without you(which I find doubtful you won't watch). If MLG said they were having an open bracket, but doing away with booths on the main stage, the same number of people would complain(or more, who knows). There is a fix number of people in the community that bitch about everything and they will always be upset about some Esports injustice.
i dont think you even read any of my posts or other people's posts. If there was some way to block people like you i would do it.
I read them and I think many of the points are either dumb or not very well thought out. I also know that the people freaking out about the open bracket are not nearly as important as they think they are.
On February 01 2013 10:20 Maesy wrote: This is fucking disgusting. No point in amateurs coming up now with open brackets being demolished and minor tournaments nearly completely disappearing. Is this really the turn you guys want to take? I'm so disappointed in this community right now, even the online qualifiers are fucking invite only. Woooow.
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS.
You'll be watching.
Really? This is all you have to add? How childish can you be here?
completely agree.
Give an unknown a fair chance to win the competition as well in the early stages of the game where everyone has the similar mechanics.
not their problem. their tournament, their rules.
true but we are the viewers
you are _a_ viewer. their obligation is to get as many viewers as possible. i imagine their current system will maximize viewers much more than having an open bracket the day of the final tournament. indeed, i think spreading it out is going to considerably increase their numbers. so, smart by them.
it better.
It will, even without you(which I find doubtful you won't watch). If MLG said they were having an open bracket, but doing away with booths on the main stage, the same number of people would complain(or more, who knows). There is a fix number of people in the community that bitch about everything and they will always be upset about some Esports injustice.
i dont think you even read any of my posts or other people's posts. If there was some way to block people like you i would do it.
I read them and I think many of the points are either dumb or not very well thought out. I also know that the people freaking out about the open bracket are not nearly as important as they think they are.
On February 01 2013 10:20 Maesy wrote: This is fucking disgusting. No point in amateurs coming up now with open brackets being demolished and minor tournaments nearly completely disappearing. Is this really the turn you guys want to take? I'm so disappointed in this community right now, even the online qualifiers are fucking invite only. Woooow.
its one tournament....
jmbthirteen, come on, he is clearly a troll. He opened his comment with "This is fucking disgusting." He might as well post "I am a troll" in a french accent(Im not sure how you note a french accent on forums, but you get the idea). There is no reaching him, he doesn't care and only wants to jump on the hate wagon.
On February 01 2013 10:20 Maesy wrote: This is fucking disgusting. No point in amateurs coming up now with open brackets being demolished and minor tournaments nearly completely disappearing. Is this really the turn you guys want to take? I'm so disappointed in this community right now, even the online qualifiers are fucking invite only. Woooow.
its one tournament....
You didn't read my post. Great job.
more like you didn't read MLG Adam's posts. Their other tournaments will be open. So throwing a temper tantrum about an invite only tournament 3 days after the release of HotS is stupid.
On February 01 2013 10:20 Maesy wrote: This is fucking disgusting. No point in amateurs coming up now with open brackets being demolished and minor tournaments nearly completely disappearing. Is this really the turn you guys want to take? I'm so disappointed in this community right now, even the online qualifiers are fucking invite only. Woooow.
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS.
[quote]
Really? This is all you have to add? How childish can you be here?
completely agree.
Give an unknown a fair chance to win the competition as well in the early stages of the game where everyone has the similar mechanics.
not their problem. their tournament, their rules.
true but we are the viewers
you are _a_ viewer. their obligation is to get as many viewers as possible. i imagine their current system will maximize viewers much more than having an open bracket the day of the final tournament. indeed, i think spreading it out is going to considerably increase their numbers. so, smart by them.
it better.
It will, even without you(which I find doubtful you won't watch). If MLG said they were having an open bracket, but doing away with booths on the main stage, the same number of people would complain(or more, who knows). There is a fix number of people in the community that bitch about everything and they will always be upset about some Esports injustice.
i dont think you even read any of my posts or other people's posts. If there was some way to block people like you i would do it.
I read them and I think many of the points are either dumb or not very well thought out. I also know that the people freaking out about the open bracket are not nearly as important as they think they are.
again there is no way to block people?
Sadly, no. You are forced to realize interact with people who don't agree with you. I am sure you will be able to get through it.
So if Moonglade wants to attend MLG he has to play and beat Sen in a bo5? That's the only qualification? How is that an even remotely fair qualification system? If a player wants to get his brand/team/sponsors exposure by attending an event, he has one player picked by MLG that he has to beat in a bo5. There is no full qualification system against different opponents. It's just a random bo5 against a random difficulty opponent determined by MLG (which they openly manipulate to encourage different region attendance).
If MLG didn't have to reinforce their history of showing how out of touch they are with the competitive scene this wouldn't be so bad. No invite for Sting (a recent championship winner) but an invite for Hawk (retired?).
I was waiting with bated breath for the event details. I didn't care about the open bracket. I was optimistic, hoping for some league format or complex ongoing event, and I get this... An MLG-manipulated invite-only 128 man single elimination bracket with zero seeding. What? How is this not worse than anything we've had before?
I am typically a really big MLG supporter but I can't help but feel disappointed. I'll still watch it, I'll still love it, but i'll be disappointed. I certainly wouldn't pay for it. Maybe i'm in the minority but apparently they missed the mark for my demographic.
Give an unknown a fair chance to win the competition as well in the early stages of the game where everyone has the similar mechanics.
not their problem. their tournament, their rules.
true but we are the viewers
you are _a_ viewer. their obligation is to get as many viewers as possible. i imagine their current system will maximize viewers much more than having an open bracket the day of the final tournament. indeed, i think spreading it out is going to considerably increase their numbers. so, smart by them.
it better.
It will, even without you(which I find doubtful you won't watch). If MLG said they were having an open bracket, but doing away with booths on the main stage, the same number of people would complain(or more, who knows). There is a fix number of people in the community that bitch about everything and they will always be upset about some Esports injustice.
i dont think you even read any of my posts or other people's posts. If there was some way to block people like you i would do it.
I read them and I think many of the points are either dumb or not very well thought out. I also know that the people freaking out about the open bracket are not nearly as important as they think they are.
again there is no way to block people?
Sadly, no. You are forced to realize interact with people who don't agree with you. I am sure you will be able to get through it.
The fact that you dont understand is that your comments do not refute any of my statements. All you are saying is people will always complain.
On February 01 2013 10:20 Maesy wrote: This is fucking disgusting. No point in amateurs coming up now with open brackets being demolished and minor tournaments nearly completely disappearing. Is this really the turn you guys want to take? I'm so disappointed in this community right now, even the online qualifiers are fucking invite only. Woooow.
Just wait a little bit for those tourney's or the next MLG.
IGN qualifier brackets were full of people from Code A/Code S and flying overseas to participate in an open bracket doesn't really work. MLG is the only one close to home and I've been there live on several occasions. Of course I'm going to be upset.
I can't stand people who instantly think I'm trolling because I have an opinion that happens to be aggressive.
Some people are playing HotS and only HotS because they want to try to make a break-in statement when the game drops. Whether or not it's realistic, there's a much better chance of that happening then beating a well established WoL player that has been with the game since it's release.
On February 01 2013 10:20 Maesy wrote: This is fucking disgusting. No point in amateurs coming up now with open brackets being demolished and minor tournaments nearly completely disappearing. Is this really the turn you guys want to take? I'm so disappointed in this community right now, even the online qualifiers are fucking invite only. Woooow.
Just wait a little bit for those tourney's or the next MLG.
IGN qualifier brackets were full of people from Code A/Code S and flying overseas to participate in an open bracket doesn't really work. MLG is the only one close to home and I've been there live on several occasions. Of course I'm going to be upset.
I can't stand people who instantly think I'm trolling because I have an opinion that happens to be aggressive.
Some people are playing HotS and only HotS because they want to try to make a break-in statement when the game drops. Whether or not it's realistic, there's a much better chance of that happening then beating a well established WoL player that has been with the game since it's release.
your stance isn't aggressive, its over the top. You are saying because MLG Dallas is invite only there is no point for amateurs to even play any more. And thats just false. There will still be plenty of chances for up and coming players to break out, even in future MLGs. And if the only way you are going to "break out" is by your leg up in HotS, its not a true break out. You won't stay at the top very long. The best players in WoL will be the best players in HotS.
On February 01 2013 10:30 SiguR wrote: So if Moonglade wants to attend MLG he has to play and beat Sen in a bo5? That's the only qualification? How is that an even remotely fair qualification system for? If a player wants to get his brand/team/sponsors exposure by attending an event, he has one player picked by MLG that he has to beat in a bo5. There is no full qualification system against different opponents. It's just a random bo5 against a random difficulty opponent determined by MLG (which they openly manipulate to encourage different region attendance).
If MLG didn't have to reinforce their history of showing how out of touch they are with the competitive scene this wouldn't be so bad. No invite for Sting (a recent championship winner) but an invite for Hawk (retired?).
I was waiting with bated breath for the event details. I didn't care about the open bracket. I was optimistic, hoping for some league format or complex ongoing event, and I get this... An MLG-manipulated invite-only 128 man single elimination bracket with zero seeding. What? How is this not worse than anything we've had before?
I am typically a really big MLG supporter but I can't help but feel disappointed. I'll still watch it, I'll still love it, but i'll be disappointed. I certainly wouldn't pay for it. Maybe i'm in the minority but apparently they missed the mark for my demographic.
its not out of touch, its evidence that they use a ranking system if they arbitrarily invited people they would never get everyone's favorites and everyone would bitch about how it's unfair that x got snubbed.
Today, MLG announced how players would qualify for the MLG Dallas Heart of the Swarm tournament - the first of its kind that will premier the weekend after release for the game. With many people expecting that Heart of the Swarm will create a boom in Starcraft II similar to that of Brood Wars did in Starcraft I, almost all heads are pointed towards opening weekend to experience the action. However, 2013's first MLG comes bitter-sweet. It doesn't have an open qualification system.
Many fans dream of seeing their top players battle it out in important matches where both pride and money are on the line. However, a recurring problem in 2012 was the consistency of these matchups - simply put, every tournament had 95% of the same storylines as every other tournament, little was new or fresh. We would see the same players in the finals of a major tournament, almost all the same in the top 8, and a very similar group of players in the round of 32 in nearly every tournament. Yes, rematches can be epic. They can be full of suspense and stick viewers to their computer screens watching to see if their favorite player could win again or take revenge. However, when the same players play again and again, it becomes monotonous, and interest waned quickly.
Instead of MLG taking steps to address this problem, here they have exacerbated it. Before, MLG would seed players into the main tournament above everyone else, but still give new blood a chance to make a name for themselves by breaking in through the open bracket. In 2013's MLG, we will see AGAIN the same players as previous MLGs, and AGAIN play out similar scenarios of player brackets that we have already previously seen. The importance of having openness in a tournament is that it creates new storylines, and. not only that, actually increases the level of skill in a tournament. New players introduce new strategies, and an open tournament pushes the best players to the top.
MLG in 2013 will rely on Heart of the Swarm alone to introduce freshness and interest. However, in such a tournament, the weekend after a new game is introduced (after a sizable beta), we need to have player diversity. Old players bring old ways of thought - new players introduce strategies and concepts that were not previously thought of. And besides - we want the best players to be competing in the most important tournament of the year (you heard me - this MLG has the possibility of being the most important of 2013 in terms of player recognition potential).
MLG has attempted to back up their invitational system by saying that it's impossible to have an online open bracket during a beta. However, this is just lazy. IPL is having a series (you heard me - SEVERAL) of online qualifiers for their Heart of the Swarm part of the tournament. DURING the beta. MLG does not have an excuse for a lack of an open qualifier - and I hope that they find some way of correcting their mistake for MLG Dallas (through expanding the bracket).
On February 01 2013 10:20 Maesy wrote: This is fucking disgusting. No point in amateurs coming up now with open brackets being demolished and minor tournaments nearly completely disappearing. Is this really the turn you guys want to take? I'm so disappointed in this community right now, even the online qualifiers are fucking invite only. Woooow.
Just wait a little bit for those tourney's or the next MLG.
IGN qualifier brackets were full of people from Code A/Code S and flying overseas to participate in an open bracket doesn't really work. MLG is the only one close to home and I've been there live on several occasions. Of course I'm going to be upset.
I can't stand people who instantly think I'm trolling because I have an opinion that happens to be aggressive.
Some people are playing HotS and only HotS because they want to try to make a break-in statement when the game drops. Whether or not it's realistic, there's a much better chance of that happening then beating a well established WoL player that has been with the game since it's release.
why is it MLG's job to provide a platform to break into the scene? i don't see where they signed up for that. they signed up for making as much money as possible, including presenting the tournaments they think will make them the most money possible. this isnt a charity organization.
And if the only way you are going to "break out" is by your leg up in HotS, its not a true break out. You won't stay at the top very long. The best players in WoL will be the best players in HotS.
On February 01 2013 10:20 Maesy wrote: This is fucking disgusting. No point in amateurs coming up now with open brackets being demolished and minor tournaments nearly completely disappearing. Is this really the turn you guys want to take? I'm so disappointed in this community right now, even the online qualifiers are fucking invite only. Woooow.
Just wait a little bit for those tourney's or the next MLG.
IGN qualifier brackets were full of people from Code A/Code S and flying overseas to participate in an open bracket doesn't really work. MLG is the only one close to home and I've been there live on several occasions. Of course I'm going to be upset.
I can't stand people who instantly think I'm trolling because I have an opinion that happens to be aggressive.
Some people are playing HotS and only HotS because they want to try to make a break-in statement when the game drops. Whether or not it's realistic, there's a much better chance of that happening then beating a well established WoL player that has been with the game since it's release.
why is it MLG's job to provide a platform to break into the scene? i don't see where they signed up for that. they signed up for making as much money as possible, including presenting the tournaments they think will make them the most money possible. this isnt a charity organization.
I never said it was their job. I said as an Amateur, the open bracket of the MLG was one of the best places to splash out of the pond. Stop twisting my words.
On February 01 2013 10:30 SiguR wrote: So if Moonglade wants to attend MLG he has to play and beat Sen in a bo5? That's the only qualification? How is that an even remotely fair qualification system for? If a player wants to get his brand/team/sponsors exposure by attending an event, he has one player picked by MLG that he has to beat in a bo5. There is no full qualification system against different opponents. It's just a random bo5 against a random difficulty opponent determined by MLG (which they openly manipulate to encourage different region attendance).
If MLG didn't have to reinforce their history of showing how out of touch they are with the competitive scene this wouldn't be so bad. No invite for Sting (a recent championship winner) but an invite for Hawk (retired?).
I was waiting with bated breath for the event details. I didn't care about the open bracket. I was optimistic, hoping for some league format or complex ongoing event, and I get this... An MLG-manipulated invite-only 128 man single elimination bracket with zero seeding. What? How is this not worse than anything we've had before?
I am typically a really big MLG supporter but I can't help but feel disappointed. I'll still watch it, I'll still love it, but i'll be disappointed. I certainly wouldn't pay for it. Maybe i'm in the minority but apparently they missed the mark for my demographic.
its not out of touch, its evidence that they use a ranking system if they arbitrarily invited people they would never get everyone's favorites and everyone would bitch about how it's unfair that x got snubbed.
I see your point and I can see how arbitrary invites wouldn't work either, but I feel that should push towards not having invites at all instead of having less bad invites. Though I suppose if they are dead set against open qualifications because of release of HotS and integrity of online matches, they don't have many options left. I guess it makes sense and just sucks that HotS is coming out when it is.
I guess what I really don't like is how dead set and possibly unbalanced these single elimination brackets can feel. For example, the way MLG admins have set it up means that no matter what happens or how good both players play we cannot have both Taeja and Violet at MLG Dallas. It is simply impossible with this set up. Why not invite for groups or miniature double elim brackets instead of inviting for these "showmatches"?
On February 01 2013 09:37 dAPhREAk wrote: [quote] not their problem. their tournament, their rules.
true but we are the viewers
you are _a_ viewer. their obligation is to get as many viewers as possible. i imagine their current system will maximize viewers much more than having an open bracket the day of the final tournament. indeed, i think spreading it out is going to considerably increase their numbers. so, smart by them.
it better.
It will, even without you(which I find doubtful you won't watch). If MLG said they were having an open bracket, but doing away with booths on the main stage, the same number of people would complain(or more, who knows). There is a fix number of people in the community that bitch about everything and they will always be upset about some Esports injustice.
i dont think you even read any of my posts or other people's posts. If there was some way to block people like you i would do it.
I read them and I think many of the points are either dumb or not very well thought out. I also know that the people freaking out about the open bracket are not nearly as important as they think they are.
again there is no way to block people?
Sadly, no. You are forced to realize interact with people who don't agree with you. I am sure you will be able to get through it.
The fact that you dont understand is that your comments do not refute any of my statements. All you are saying is people will always complain.
Well most of your posts were barely a sentence long and the only one that gave any real reasoning was:
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS.
You'll be watching.
Really? This is all you have to add? How childish can you be here?
completely agree.
Give an unknown a fair chance to win the competition as well in the early stages of the game where everyone has the similar mechanics.
You're not going to be watching the first premier HotS tournament in history because there is no open bracket for NA masters players to try and cheese pro's only to fail? You don't want to see top players like Parting, Flash, Taeja, Hero, Life play their first ever HotS tournament??? I find that hard to believe.
You can believe anything that you want, especially create your own reality when i did not say anything that you posted above.
I wont be watching because there is really no incentive to watch it. I can see these pro players play anytime in future tournaments. Especially once HOTS gets more stable. The opportunity to see a bunch of unknowns take and beat professional players in the early stages is something that you wont get to see again. Especially once the pro players mechanics reach their best level.
and the argument boils down to you won't watch because you can't see a pro get taken out by an unknown. Except that most of the open bracket matches are not shown on stream, so it is likely that you would only hear about it. That and its clear from your post that you weren't that pumped when you thought there was an open bracket, since you "can see these pro players play anytime in future tournaments." So clearly you will tune at some future date when you feel its a good time.
And yes, people will always complain about dumb shit. This is the internet, after all.
The narrow-mindedness in the thread is astounding.
I want to see an up and comer rise through an open bracket where everyone is familiar with the game (i.e. it is more than 3 days old). I do not want to see G.I. Ladder Joe beat a pro because the pro was busy practicing for other major tournaments they are contractually obligated to focus on. I would rather see 2 pros, equally crippled by relative lack of high level experience, have to develop tactics on the fly using their raw mechanic and what shreds of WoL experience are still relevant.
If some no name wins an open bracket on a 3 day old game, it will mean nothing. His/her victory will be second guessed for the better part of the following couple weeks until everyone realizes that the "champ" has never been seen since due to being eclipsed by the players who are good.
On February 01 2013 10:20 Maesy wrote: This is fucking disgusting. No point in amateurs coming up now with open brackets being demolished and minor tournaments nearly completely disappearing. Is this really the turn you guys want to take? I'm so disappointed in this community right now, even the online qualifiers are fucking invite only. Woooow.
Just wait a little bit for those tourney's or the next MLG.
IGN qualifier brackets were full of people from Code A/Code S and flying overseas to participate in an open bracket doesn't really work. MLG is the only one close to home and I've been there live on several occasions. Of course I'm going to be upset.
I can't stand people who instantly think I'm trolling because I have an opinion that happens to be aggressive.
Some people are playing HotS and only HotS because they want to try to make a break-in statement when the game drops. Whether or not it's realistic, there's a much better chance of that happening then beating a well established WoL player that has been with the game since it's release.
why is it MLG's job to provide a platform to break into the scene? i don't see where they signed up for that. they signed up for making as much money as possible, including presenting the tournaments they think will make them the most money possible. this isnt a charity organization.
I never said it was their job. I said as an Amateur, the open bracket of the MLG was one of the best places to splash out of the pond. Stop twisting my words.
Well sadly, 3 days after HotS releases is not the time for you. Maybe the next MLG will be your or some other player's time. Don't blame MLG for it, however(and don't say you weren't blaming them, because there is no other way to interpret "This is fucking disgusting." than blame). They have opted to make sure their show runs smoothly, because its their fucking job.
you are _a_ viewer. their obligation is to get as many viewers as possible. i imagine their current system will maximize viewers much more than having an open bracket the day of the final tournament. indeed, i think spreading it out is going to considerably increase their numbers. so, smart by them.
it better.
It will, even without you(which I find doubtful you won't watch). If MLG said they were having an open bracket, but doing away with booths on the main stage, the same number of people would complain(or more, who knows). There is a fix number of people in the community that bitch about everything and they will always be upset about some Esports injustice.
i dont think you even read any of my posts or other people's posts. If there was some way to block people like you i would do it.
I read them and I think many of the points are either dumb or not very well thought out. I also know that the people freaking out about the open bracket are not nearly as important as they think they are.
again there is no way to block people?
Sadly, no. You are forced to realize interact with people who don't agree with you. I am sure you will be able to get through it.
The fact that you dont understand is that your comments do not refute any of my statements. All you are saying is people will always complain.
Well most of your posts were barely a sentence long and the only one that gave any real reasoning was:
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS.
You'll be watching.
Really? This is all you have to add? How childish can you be here?
completely agree.
Give an unknown a fair chance to win the competition as well in the early stages of the game where everyone has the similar mechanics.
You're not going to be watching the first premier HotS tournament in history because there is no open bracket for NA masters players to try and cheese pro's only to fail? You don't want to see top players like Parting, Flash, Taeja, Hero, Life play their first ever HotS tournament??? I find that hard to believe.
You can believe anything that you want, especially create your own reality when i did not say anything that you posted above.
I wont be watching because there is really no incentive to watch it. I can see these pro players play anytime in future tournaments. Especially once HOTS gets more stable. The opportunity to see a bunch of unknowns take and beat professional players in the early stages is something that you wont get to see again. Especially once the pro players mechanics reach their best level.
and the argument boils down to you won't watch because you can't see a pro get taken out by an unknown. Except that most of the open bracket matches are not shown on stream, so it is likely that you would only hear about it. That and its clear from your post that you weren't that pumped when you thought there was an open bracket, since you "can see these pro players play anytime in future tournaments." So clearly you will tune at some future date when you feel its a good time.
And yes, people will always complain about dumb shit. This is the internet, after all.
Opportunities like this do not appear too often for new players, especially the unknown ones. A tournament that allows some random person to face and possibly beat a major player is exciting and can be a window for the new player to become something more. Especially when the mechanics of the top tier players are similar to the unknowns in the early stages. Once HOTS gets more established is going to be extremely difficult for an unknown to break into the scene. For example, idra was able to win MLG DC 2010 when the game was fresh but he has not been able to win any major mlg since nor I see him winning in the future. But that is how i got to know him, otherwise i would not give a rats ass about him.
Even though there are many NA players that are participating in this tournament, i also want to see new faces now, not when it becomes almost impossible.
On February 01 2013 10:20 Maesy wrote: This is fucking disgusting. No point in amateurs coming up now with open brackets being demolished and minor tournaments nearly completely disappearing. Is this really the turn you guys want to take? I'm so disappointed in this community right now, even the online qualifiers are fucking invite only. Woooow.
Just wait a little bit for those tourney's or the next MLG.
IGN qualifier brackets were full of people from Code A/Code S and flying overseas to participate in an open bracket doesn't really work. MLG is the only one close to home and I've been there live on several occasions. Of course I'm going to be upset.
I can't stand people who instantly think I'm trolling because I have an opinion that happens to be aggressive.
Some people are playing HotS and only HotS because they want to try to make a break-in statement when the game drops. Whether or not it's realistic, there's a much better chance of that happening then beating a well established WoL player that has been with the game since it's release.
why is it MLG's job to provide a platform to break into the scene? i don't see where they signed up for that. they signed up for making as much money as possible, including presenting the tournaments they think will make them the most money possible. this isnt a charity organization.
I never said it was their job. I said as an Amateur, the open bracket of the MLG was one of the best places to splash out of the pond. Stop twisting my words.
Well sadly, 3 days after HotS releases is not the time for you. Maybe the next MLG will be your or some other player's time. Don't blame MLG for it, however(and don't say you weren't blaming them, because there is no other way to interpret "This is fucking disgusting." than blame). They have opted to make sure their show runs smoothly, because its their fucking job.
No, there are other reasons than 'blame'. I'm not going to lie like other people and say I'm not going to watch the event. I will watch MLG. I'm 'disgusted' because I read several posts on the last announcement that players had already bought plane tickets etc. to participate in this event and then the organization suddenly turned around and said they're doing invite only. Don't tell me that isn't fucked up for the people that were excited to play.
Kind of lame, was really hoping for a lot of fresh talent and new faces could make a name for themselves at the release of the game in a major premiere tournament. This is how a majority of the foreign pros came into the scene, sad that it won't be the same just yet. It also doesn't really matter than if open bracket games are casted or not, when Scarlett took out Demuslim everyone heard about the news nearly instantly. That game was never casted or shown at the time. Imagine if some no namer took out MC or Polt or Violet. If the person had any decent social skills they could rise to the top as fast as Scarlett did.
Still better than nothing, hopefully the other MLGs end up not following the same format.
On February 01 2013 11:24 408xParadox wrote: This is why ipl6 is still wol, so we dont have noobs beating pros at a 3 day old game.
Do you have any idea what the fuck the strategy part in RTS means? You really aren't the pro if you're losing to a random guy all inning you.
Dealing with new strategies and being able to invent defenses on the fly is a huge part of playing starcraft at a high level. If a player comes up with a such a strong and unique strategy that it wins him series over established progamers then he is smart as hell, and deserves the win for having a better strategy.
Clearly all royal roaders and breakout performances are frauds by that incredibly retarded logic.
Seems fair, apart from being super NA biased in terms of amount of spots. Should be good! If they can do the first season well, SC2 might resurge back into popularity
On February 01 2013 09:44 dAPhREAk wrote: [quote] you are _a_ viewer. their obligation is to get as many viewers as possible. i imagine their current system will maximize viewers much more than having an open bracket the day of the final tournament. indeed, i think spreading it out is going to considerably increase their numbers. so, smart by them.
it better.
It will, even without you(which I find doubtful you won't watch). If MLG said they were having an open bracket, but doing away with booths on the main stage, the same number of people would complain(or more, who knows). There is a fix number of people in the community that bitch about everything and they will always be upset about some Esports injustice.
i dont think you even read any of my posts or other people's posts. If there was some way to block people like you i would do it.
I read them and I think many of the points are either dumb or not very well thought out. I also know that the people freaking out about the open bracket are not nearly as important as they think they are.
again there is no way to block people?
Sadly, no. You are forced to realize interact with people who don't agree with you. I am sure you will be able to get through it.
The fact that you dont understand is that your comments do not refute any of my statements. All you are saying is people will always complain.
Well most of your posts were barely a sentence long and the only one that gave any real reasoning was:
On February 01 2013 09:44 number01 wrote:
On February 01 2013 09:40 HotGlueGun wrote:
On February 01 2013 09:32 number01 wrote:
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS.
You'll be watching.
Really? This is all you have to add? How childish can you be here?
completely agree.
Give an unknown a fair chance to win the competition as well in the early stages of the game where everyone has the similar mechanics.
You're not going to be watching the first premier HotS tournament in history because there is no open bracket for NA masters players to try and cheese pro's only to fail? You don't want to see top players like Parting, Flash, Taeja, Hero, Life play their first ever HotS tournament??? I find that hard to believe.
You can believe anything that you want, especially create your own reality when i did not say anything that you posted above.
I wont be watching because there is really no incentive to watch it. I can see these pro players play anytime in future tournaments. Especially once HOTS gets more stable. The opportunity to see a bunch of unknowns take and beat professional players in the early stages is something that you wont get to see again. Especially once the pro players mechanics reach their best level.
and the argument boils down to you won't watch because you can't see a pro get taken out by an unknown. Except that most of the open bracket matches are not shown on stream, so it is likely that you would only hear about it. That and its clear from your post that you weren't that pumped when you thought there was an open bracket, since you "can see these pro players play anytime in future tournaments." So clearly you will tune at some future date when you feel its a good time.
And yes, people will always complain about dumb shit. This is the internet, after all.
Opportunities like this do not appear too often for new players, especially the unknown ones. A tournament that allows some random person to face and possibly beat a major player is exciting and can be a window for the new player to become something more. Especially when the mechanics of the top tier players are similar to the unknowns in the early stages. Once HOTS gets more established is going to be extremely difficult for an unknown to break into the scene. For example, idra was able to win MLG DC 2010 when the game was fresh but he has not been able to win any major mlg since nor I see him winning in the future. But that is how i got to know him, otherwise i would not give a rats ass about him.
Even though there are many NA players that are participating in this tournament, i also want to see new faces now, not when it becomes almost impossible.
Idra won MLG right after the roach patch that was a day before the event in 2010. Also, I knew about him long before that from the GSL. He did not break into the scene at all, as he qualified for the GSL back in season one and was on EG at the time.
New players will break into the scene without MLG running an event with a 3 day old game that will encourage the most glorious cheese used in a profession event. Only to disappear after the game stabilizes and never be heard from again.
It will, even without you(which I find doubtful you won't watch). If MLG said they were having an open bracket, but doing away with booths on the main stage, the same number of people would complain(or more, who knows). There is a fix number of people in the community that bitch about everything and they will always be upset about some Esports injustice.
i dont think you even read any of my posts or other people's posts. If there was some way to block people like you i would do it.
I read them and I think many of the points are either dumb or not very well thought out. I also know that the people freaking out about the open bracket are not nearly as important as they think they are.
again there is no way to block people?
Sadly, no. You are forced to realize interact with people who don't agree with you. I am sure you will be able to get through it.
The fact that you dont understand is that your comments do not refute any of my statements. All you are saying is people will always complain.
Well most of your posts were barely a sentence long and the only one that gave any real reasoning was:
On February 01 2013 09:44 number01 wrote:
On February 01 2013 09:40 HotGlueGun wrote:
On February 01 2013 09:32 number01 wrote:
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS.
You'll be watching.
Really? This is all you have to add? How childish can you be here?
completely agree.
Give an unknown a fair chance to win the competition as well in the early stages of the game where everyone has the similar mechanics.
You're not going to be watching the first premier HotS tournament in history because there is no open bracket for NA masters players to try and cheese pro's only to fail? You don't want to see top players like Parting, Flash, Taeja, Hero, Life play their first ever HotS tournament??? I find that hard to believe.
You can believe anything that you want, especially create your own reality when i did not say anything that you posted above.
I wont be watching because there is really no incentive to watch it. I can see these pro players play anytime in future tournaments. Especially once HOTS gets more stable. The opportunity to see a bunch of unknowns take and beat professional players in the early stages is something that you wont get to see again. Especially once the pro players mechanics reach their best level.
and the argument boils down to you won't watch because you can't see a pro get taken out by an unknown. Except that most of the open bracket matches are not shown on stream, so it is likely that you would only hear about it. That and its clear from your post that you weren't that pumped when you thought there was an open bracket, since you "can see these pro players play anytime in future tournaments." So clearly you will tune at some future date when you feel its a good time.
And yes, people will always complain about dumb shit. This is the internet, after all.
Opportunities like this do not appear too often for new players, especially the unknown ones. A tournament that allows some random person to face and possibly beat a major player is exciting and can be a window for the new player to become something more. Especially when the mechanics of the top tier players are similar to the unknowns in the early stages. Once HOTS gets more established is going to be extremely difficult for an unknown to break into the scene. For example, idra was able to win MLG DC 2010 when the game was fresh but he has not been able to win any major mlg since nor I see him winning in the future. But that is how i got to know him, otherwise i would not give a rats ass about him.
Even though there are many NA players that are participating in this tournament, i also want to see new faces now, not when it becomes almost impossible.
Idra won MLG right after the roach patch that was a day before the event in 2010. Also, I knew about him long before that from the GSL. He did not break into the scene at all, as he qualified for the GSL back in season one and was on EG at the time.
New players will break into the scene without MLG running an event with a 3 day old game that will encourage the most glorious cheese used in a profession event. Only to disappear after the game stabilizes and never be heard from again.
But it will be extremely difficult once the real-programers get their mechanics back again. Also assuming that just because they are new it means that they are going to cheese is just silly. As if a professional gamer would not ever cheese.
It will, even without you(which I find doubtful you won't watch). If MLG said they were having an open bracket, but doing away with booths on the main stage, the same number of people would complain(or more, who knows). There is a fix number of people in the community that bitch about everything and they will always be upset about some Esports injustice.
i dont think you even read any of my posts or other people's posts. If there was some way to block people like you i would do it.
I read them and I think many of the points are either dumb or not very well thought out. I also know that the people freaking out about the open bracket are not nearly as important as they think they are.
again there is no way to block people?
Sadly, no. You are forced to realize interact with people who don't agree with you. I am sure you will be able to get through it.
The fact that you dont understand is that your comments do not refute any of my statements. All you are saying is people will always complain.
Well most of your posts were barely a sentence long and the only one that gave any real reasoning was:
On February 01 2013 09:44 number01 wrote:
On February 01 2013 09:40 HotGlueGun wrote:
On February 01 2013 09:32 number01 wrote:
On February 01 2013 09:30 AzurewinD wrote: Definitely disappointing without open brackets.
Looks like I won't be watching either. Not really interested in a competition where new blood isn't given a fair chance to rise to the top, especially with the brand new metagame of HOTS.
You'll be watching.
Really? This is all you have to add? How childish can you be here?
completely agree.
Give an unknown a fair chance to win the competition as well in the early stages of the game where everyone has the similar mechanics.
You're not going to be watching the first premier HotS tournament in history because there is no open bracket for NA masters players to try and cheese pro's only to fail? You don't want to see top players like Parting, Flash, Taeja, Hero, Life play their first ever HotS tournament??? I find that hard to believe.
You can believe anything that you want, especially create your own reality when i did not say anything that you posted above.
I wont be watching because there is really no incentive to watch it. I can see these pro players play anytime in future tournaments. Especially once HOTS gets more stable. The opportunity to see a bunch of unknowns take and beat professional players in the early stages is something that you wont get to see again. Especially once the pro players mechanics reach their best level.
and the argument boils down to you won't watch because you can't see a pro get taken out by an unknown. Except that most of the open bracket matches are not shown on stream, so it is likely that you would only hear about it. That and its clear from your post that you weren't that pumped when you thought there was an open bracket, since you "can see these pro players play anytime in future tournaments." So clearly you will tune at some future date when you feel its a good time.
And yes, people will always complain about dumb shit. This is the internet, after all.
Opportunities like this do not appear too often for new players, especially the unknown ones. A tournament that allows some random person to face and possibly beat a major player is exciting and can be a window for the new player to become something more. Especially when the mechanics of the top tier players are similar to the unknowns in the early stages. Once HOTS gets more established is going to be extremely difficult for an unknown to break into the scene. For example, idra was able to win MLG DC 2010 when the game was fresh but he has not been able to win any major mlg since nor I see him winning in the future. But that is how i got to know him, otherwise i would not give a rats ass about him.
Even though there are many NA players that are participating in this tournament, i also want to see new faces now, not when it becomes almost impossible.
Idra won MLG right after the roach patch that was a day before the event in 2010. Also, I knew about him long before that from the GSL. He did not break into the scene at all, as he qualified for the GSL back in season one and was on EG at the time.
New players will break into the scene without MLG running an event with a 3 day old game that will encourage the most glorious cheese used in a profession event. Only to disappear after the game stabilizes and never be heard from again.
People who cheese can't stabilize (Even though pros still cheese every day). Well thought out post.
I think this is a near perfect format for running a tournament < 3 days after a game is released and with any qualification having to take place while the game is still in Beta. With frequent patching/balance changes and the issues with downtime and other server issues in the Beta, an extended open qualifier just doesn't work as well as it does with a completed game. Maybe you think it would be better to do it anyway, maybe you don't, but I think we should definitely give MLG a pass on the issue either way considering any qualification system will have to take place on an unreleased game.
A series of best-of-5 regional showdowns for qualification in a huge tournament with the matchups listed in the OP? Awesome! I'm usually totally against invite-only, but to pick a bunch of WOL's finest and pit them together in the brand new game days after its release. Sounds good. Just bring the open bracket back on the next one
Invite only sucks for competitors, but it doesn't really matter that much for viewers since it rarely ever made it on stream and when it did, people would switch streams to watch the "big names".
On February 01 2013 05:11 Penev wrote: The first HotS LAN right after release; People who say they're not gonna watch are lying.
I will honestly not watch. MLG to me is this big Starcraft festival where we gather in an LR thread to cheer and fool around while the stars play, and eagerly await for some surprising reports from the open (that's the most thrilling part). I wasn't interested in the office MLG's or the other side events. I want the festival. A HotS invitational is not it.
On February 01 2013 10:35 Die4Ever wrote: the qualification matches are probably gonna be pretty funny to watch lol, most of these guys have played like a few hours of HotS
I'm afraid that they will stick to what they know - WoL. Maybe you will see someone post the sarcastic "omg he made a hots unit!!" every fifth game or so. We have seen it before in the previous beta tournaments and now when there's serious money on the line they will play the game as they know best how to. These players are probably not the right ones for a HotS release party. Or at least that's my big concern.
Either way it will still be an event with some sick good Starcraft though. Maybe just not the kind some might hope for.
I think I'm ok with there being no open bracket as I never kept up with it nor watch any of the games. I usually just look on Liquipedia and follow the path of the more famous/korean players through the open bracket. I'm ok with invitational but would have preferred a group style instead of a single elimination for the sake of fairness.
Am I missing something? So there wont be a WoL tourney anymore? Or is this completely different from the WoL one and everyone is just going ape shit because they still don't know what's suppose to replace the open bracket?
On February 01 2013 13:10 orllyfools wrote: Am I missing something? So there wont be a WoL tourney anymore? Or is this completely different from the WoL one and everyone is just going ape shit because they still don't know what's suppose to replace the open bracket?
Correct, it was announced long ago that this MLG is entirely HotS. This is the entire tournament.
Man the pitchforks are in full motion here. Most people don't actually care about watching the open bracket but a few people were loud enough to make everyone else angry. Hilarious stuff, good job guys. ~_~
On February 01 2013 13:48 magicallypuzzled wrote: there always going to be some people that are odd choices in any invitational other wise the invites just seem boring.
The onetwo questionable invites are Jjakji... Wins a GSL Championship a year ago, falls to Code A the next season, stays in Code A for 2 more seasons, falls out of the GSL, requalifies, falls out of the GSL again, and doesn't win a single game in the Code A Preliminaries this season... Also he's never attended a MLG IIRC... Only foreign event he's been to is IPL4... Unless you count the online portion of Iron Squid 1...
and GuMiho, who weirdly accepted an invite despite saying he's not going to attend any foreign events until he's a GSL Champion.
The one questionable non-invite is soO, the MvP Invitational Champion...
On February 01 2013 13:48 magicallypuzzled wrote: there always going to be some people that are odd choices in any invitational other wise the invites just seem boring.
The onetwo questionable invites are Jjakji... Wins a GSL Championship a year ago, falls to Code A the next season, stays in Code A for 2 more seasons, falls out of the GSL, requalifies, falls out of the GSL again, and doesn't win a single game in the Code A Preliminaries this season... Also he's never attended a MLG IIRC... Only foreign event he's been to is IPL4... Unless you count the online portion of Iron Squid 1...
and GuMiho, who weirdly accepted an invite despite saying he's not going to attend any foreign events until he's a GSL Champion.
The one questionable non-invite is soO, the MvP Invitational Champion...
Nobody know who was invited and turned it down for one reason or another and they certainly are not going to cheapen their own event but saying coulda woulda shoulda.
On February 01 2013 03:37 MLG_Adam wrote: Keep in mind that players from every region declined invites.
Of course they did. For example, flying from here (latin america) to the US is pretty damn expensive, and the tournament setup is really not that player-friendly... Teams or players won't risk investing in expensive air tickets and hotel reservations if they see no benefit. It's not that much of a "whoa, I don't like that tournament setup" but "whoa, what's in it for our team and me as a player, and what are the benefits?"...
Like I said previously, I think the experiment being undertaken is interesting, but too hurting to newcomers and underdogs, and most of all, to teams in general... :/
The winners of the qualifier matches are all flown to dallas and provided hotel. All 32 players will have a fully paid trip.
So you pay for every player who can pull that kind of money out of their ass gets free trips?
On February 01 2013 02:33 MLG_Adam wrote: Again. We want aspiration, we want open qualification, we want success stories, how can you say anything different based on our track record?
This event is 3 days after a major content release. Qualification is taking place on BETA servers. We wanted to have open online qualification for this event but it was not a logistical reality.
We are not done announcing 2013 plans. Have faith.
Yet you brodcast all these games over a 2 week period a month before the actual tournament? Why not just do open brackets online during the weeks preceding the tourney. -____- I WAS gonna watch the whole weekend regardless of what you guys would announce but I think I'd rather watch any other starcraft event i see on teamliquid.net. And if there's nothing, I'll just watch some DotA or LoL ersomething. Even though i have no clue what they're doing. You wont get my tweets or views.
On February 01 2013 02:33 MLG_Adam wrote: Again. We want aspiration, we want open qualification, we want success stories, how can you say anything different based on our track record?
This event is 3 days after a major content release. Qualification is taking place on BETA servers. We wanted to have open online qualification for this event but it was not a logistical reality.
We are not done announcing 2013 plans. Have faith.
Yet you brodcast all these games over a 2 week period a month before the actual tournament? Why not just do open brackets online during the weeks preceding the tourney. -____- I WAS gonna watch the whole weekend regardless of what you guys would announce but I think I'd rather watch any other starcraft event i see on teamliquid.net. And if there's nothing, I'll just watch some DotA or LoL ersomething. Even though i have no clue what they're doing. You wont get my tweets or views.
Hey guise. We're playing the ro64 one match a weekday for a few weeks... Oh, and the ro64 is bo5s with the rest of the tournament being bo3s.
Next thing MLG is going to tell us is Cloud Kingdom, Ohana, Daybreak, and Entombed are staying in the map pool for the main event and Bifrost and Planet S aren't the Neo versions...
On February 01 2013 02:33 MLG_Adam wrote: Again. We want aspiration, we want open qualification, we want success stories, how can you say anything different based on our track record?
This event is 3 days after a major content release. Qualification is taking place on BETA servers. We wanted to have open online qualification for this event but it was not a logistical reality.
We are not done announcing 2013 plans. Have faith.
Yet you brodcast all these games over a 2 week period a month before the actual tournament? Why not just do open brackets online during the weeks preceding the tourney. -____- I WAS gonna watch the whole weekend regardless of what you guys would announce but I think I'd rather watch any other starcraft event i see on teamliquid.net. And if there's nothing, I'll just watch some DotA or LoL ersomething. Even though i have no clue what they're doing. You wont get my tweets or views.
Hey guise. We're playing the ro64 one match a weekday for a few weeks... Oh, and the ro64 is bo5s with the rest of the tournament being bo3s.
Next thing MLG is going to tell us is Cloud Kingdom, Ohana, Daybreak, and Entombed are staying in the map pool for the main event and Bifrost and Planet S aren't the Neo versions...
I heard they will bring back favorites like Steppes of War, Jungle Basin, etc back to celebrate the end of WoL.
On February 01 2013 02:33 MLG_Adam wrote: Again. We want aspiration, we want open qualification, we want success stories, how can you say anything different based on our track record?
This event is 3 days after a major content release. Qualification is taking place on BETA servers. We wanted to have open online qualification for this event but it was not a logistical reality.
We are not done announcing 2013 plans. Have faith.
Yet you brodcast all these games over a 2 week period a month before the actual tournament? Why not just do open brackets online during the weeks preceding the tourney. -____- I WAS gonna watch the whole weekend regardless of what you guys would announce but I think I'd rather watch any other starcraft event i see on teamliquid.net. And if there's nothing, I'll just watch some DotA or LoL ersomething. Even though i have no clue what they're doing. You wont get my tweets or views.
Hey guise. We're playing the ro64 one match a weekday for a few weeks... Oh, and the ro64 is bo5s with the rest of the tournament being bo3s.
Next thing MLG is going to tell us is Cloud Kingdom, Ohana, Daybreak, and Entombed are staying in the map pool for the main event and Bifrost and Planet S aren't the Neo versions...
I heard they will bring back favorites like Steppes of War, Jungle Basin, etc back to celebrate the end of WoL.
Who knows... Anything can happen... There isn't even a lower bracket... Apparently their double elimination bracket system they've been using since MLG Raleigh 2010 is flawed...
On February 01 2013 14:36 Jv9mmm wrote: I'm sad that it has to be Scarlett vs Goswser because those are the only 2 from North America who have a chance at winning the MLG.
I actually heard a caller from inside the game express his disappointment with no open bracket, and now I'm sad.
It's too bad MLG didn't announce it way before hand that there won't be an open bracket for HotS (assuming they made the decision a while ago that is).
For most people, this wouldn't be a problem but thinking about it, open brackets for break out players really helps keep the SC2 scene alive. Some people ladder and practice SC2 exclusively because they're able to participate in tournaments.
Though of course, it's only for this one MLG but they should definitely announce it in advance.
Anyway, this goes on to my post about how Blizzard should add in a way for tournament organizers to more easily handle qualifiers and things like that (maybe even make online qualifiers) with a way to create customizable tournaments (basically, you set the brackets, set the time and/or deadline, set Bo#, set maps, etc and then players simply participate in them via battle.net and battle.net could record win/losses automatically with less need for referees of observers or sending replays, etc).
Of course it might not change anything about this MLG (since the main reason is because HotS is just coming out) but for future ones, it'll help.
On February 01 2013 14:36 Jv9mmm wrote: I'm sad that it has to be Scarlett vs Goswser because those are the only 2 from North America who have a chance at winning the MLG.
Trust me. Seed will win. Him and SuperNova have been fighting for #1 GM on the HotS server for a month or two... or three... A LONG TIME... Plus SuperNova isn't invited... and he has imba skytoss on his side.
Honestly, is no open bracket for 1 event that much to cry about? I am not sure what the interest is in having an open bracket when a new game is just released. I realize people enjoy some sort of cinderella story, but that story is only better when people are playing a game which is more developed. There is a big difference between some random breaking through an open bracket when HOTS is just released, compared to months down the line when the game is continually being figured out.
Also.... Scarlett vs Gowser and Vibe vs Illusion....that`s rough
On February 01 2013 14:57 Goldfish wrote: I actually heard a caller from inside the game express his disappointment with no open bracket, and now I'm sad.
It's too bad MLG didn't announce it way before hand that there won't be an open bracket for HotS (assuming they made the decision a while ago that is).
Announcement made 22nd of January, 2013.
What's disappointing about no open bracket and no form of open qualifiers is the fact that what made MLG exciting was the combination of 3 things: The top players from previous MLGs, The best players at the time of the online qualifiers of the event, and the open bracket providing the best players that didn't qualify or get invited a chance to prove themselves.
Edit - Instead of just Leenock's story, here's a list:
If there was no open bracket:
*Leenock would never be a champion. He would just be some Korean scrub that got 2nd place at a GSL at the end of 2011.
*That legendary TvT between BoxeR and Rain on Metalopolis never would have happened.
*HerO, JYP, and PuMa never would have played in a MLG without qualifying.
*MKP would have never been sent to MLG by reddit and the help of his fans, proving that this community is something special.
*TheStC never would have played amazing games for us to end up in 3rd place at two MLGs.
*X number of Polt vs. Stephano series never would have happened.
*NaNiwa never would have been a MLG Champion.
*CranK never would have been sent to MLG by reddit and Axiom might not even exist.
On February 01 2013 15:00 mango_destroyer wrote: Honestly, is no open bracket for 1 event that much to cry about? I am not sure what the interest is in having an open bracket when a new game is just released. I realize people enjoy some sort of cinderella story, but that story is only better when people are playing a game which is more developed. There is a big difference between some random breaking through an open bracket when HOTS is just released, compared to months down the line when the game is continually being figured out.
Also.... Scarlett vs Gowser and Vibe vs Illusion....that`s rough
There was a caller on inside the game who was really down from no MLG open bracket (mainly because it wasn't announced in advance).
He said he practiced a lot of HotS beta for the MLG open bracket. I can imagine the person being really good and motivated and dreaming of owning it up in MLG... then they announce there will be no open bracket.
I know some people say that people who practice HotS beta a lot definitely have (in a way) an edge over pro players who need to practice WoL (since they're either in a WoL tournament right now or they will be soon) but this is huge motivation for potential break out players. Maybe they get far in a tournament and ride the momentum to become a better play in the future from said results.
So for most people, it won't really matter to them but I can definitely understand the disappointed from people who planned to participate in MLG open bracket as a potential break out player. It's the minority and for the most part, people don't hear much from them but those type of players are a decent part of the player base.
Again, this type of thing helps keep people interested in SC2 (that is, the players who play SC2 because they're able to try out for big tournaments). Of course that might be the minority but it's still a part. I wonder if Blizzard could help with that by sponsoring and encouraging more tournaments to have open brackets.
Edit - My thoughts on this came after hearing that caller from inside the game. I mean, he sounded really sad. Definitely changed my mindset about not caring or caring about the open bracket, so kudos to that caller.
On February 01 2013 14:57 Goldfish wrote: It's too bad MLG didn't announce it way before hand that there won't be an open bracket for HotS (assuming they made the decision a while ago that is)..
On February 01 2013 15:13 uberism wrote: I still don't understand why there is no open bracket. WTF does server stability mean?
uhm.. the Servers that everyone plays HOTS on? Remember theres no such thing as LAN in 2013 for SC2...
Here's TotalBiscuit's post on Reddit.
This is quite clearly all Blizzards doing, not MLG. I'd be very surprised if Blizzard wanted the responsibility of having to handle a massive open bracket plus massive qualifiers (on the beta server no-less) that close to launch. There's no way MLG would just axe the open bracket for their first HotS tournament without serious pressure from an external source, it's been a staple of the circuit forever.
Again, this is one damn event. Axiom gets fucked by their "invitational" system but it's still just... one... event... If this becomes THE thing, then yes, there's a reason for concern but there is no reason to flip out over one tournament. They're even calling it an exhibition, how much more evidence could you need to come to the conclusion that this is a one-off?
This is quite clearly all Blizzards doing, not MLG. I'd be very surprised if Blizzard wanted the responsibility of having to handle a massive open bracket plus massive qualifiers (on the beta server no-less) that close to launch. There's no way MLG would just axe the open bracket for their first HotS tournament without serious pressure from an external source, it's been a staple of the circuit forever.
Again, this is one damn event. Axiom gets fucked by their "invitational" system but it's still just... one... event... If this becomes THE thing, then yes, there's a reason for concern but there is no reason to flip out over one tournament. They're even calling it an exhibition, how much more evidence could you need to come to the conclusion that this is a one-off?
well, no shit blizzard is involved. mlg wants to make sure the servers dont go down in the middle of it. mlg_adam already discussed this in this thread.
We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
I could live with that explanation if you actually had no online matches at all, but as you actually do online matches including players outside the USA (for which latency will be terrible) and a lot of time until march 15th, it's really a strange thing you came up with.
And if you don't want people to be upset, why don't you flat out say that there will be an open bracket again in the events thereafter instead of saying you will announce more later.
We are working very closely with Blizzard to ensure that the specific days that qualifying matches are happening that servers are stable and ready. That was not possible with a large open bracket across multiple regions spanning a long period of time.
On February 01 2013 15:13 uberism wrote: I still don't understand why there is no open bracket. WTF does server stability mean?
uhm.. the Servers that everyone plays HOTS on? Remember theres no such thing as LAN in 2013 for SC2...
Here's TotalBiscuit's post on Reddit.
This is quite clearly all Blizzards doing, not MLG. I'd be very surprised if Blizzard wanted the responsibility of having to handle a massive open bracket plus massive qualifiers (on the beta server no-less) that close to launch. There's no way MLG would just axe the open bracket for their first HotS tournament without serious pressure from an external source, it's been a staple of the circuit forever.
Again, this is one damn event. Axiom gets fucked by their "invitational" system but it's still just... one... event... If this becomes THE thing, then yes, there's a reason for concern but there is no reason to flip out over one tournament. They're even calling it an exhibition, how much more evidence could you need to come to the conclusion that this is a one-off?
well, no shit blizzard is involved. mlg wants to make sure the servers dont go down in the middle of it. mlg_adam already discussed this in this thread.
We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
I could live with that explanation if you actually had no online matches at all, but as you actually do online matches including players outside the USA (for which latency will be terrible) and a lot of time until march 15th, it's really a strange thing you came up with.
And if you don't want people to be upset, why don't you flat out say that there will be an open bracket again in the events thereafter instead of saying you will announce more later.
We are working very closely with Blizzard to ensure that the specific days that qualifying matches are happening that servers are stable and ready. That was not possible with a large open bracket across multiple regions spanning a long period of time.
I know, But not everyone reads the thread these days before posting.
On February 01 2013 15:00 mango_destroyer wrote: Honestly, is no open bracket for 1 event that much to cry about? I am not sure what the interest is in having an open bracket when a new game is just released. I realize people enjoy some sort of cinderella story, but that story is only better when people are playing a game which is more developed. There is a big difference between some random breaking through an open bracket when HOTS is just released, compared to months down the line when the game is continually being figured out.
Also.... Scarlett vs Gowser and Vibe vs Illusion....that`s rough
There was a caller on inside the game who was really down from no MLG open bracket (mainly because it wasn't announced in advance).
He said he practiced a lot of HotS beta for the MLG open bracket. I can imagine the person being really good and motivated and dreaming of owning it up in MLG... then they announce there will be no open bracket.
I know some people say that people who practice HotS beta a lot definitely have (in a way) an edge over pro players who need to practice WoL (since they're either in a WoL tournament right now or they will be soon) but this is huge motivation for potential break out players. Maybe they get far in a tournament and ride the momentum to become a better play in the future from said results.
So for most people, it won't really matter to them but I can definitely understand the disappointed from people who planned to participate in MLG open bracket as a potential break out player. It's the minority and for the most part, people don't hear much from them but those type of players are a decent part of the player base.
Again, this type of thing helps keep people interested in SC2 (that is, the players who play SC2 because they're able to try out for big tournaments). Of course that might be the minority but it's still a part. I wonder if Blizzard could help with that by sponsoring and encouraging more tournaments to have open brackets.
Edit - My thoughts on this came after hearing that caller from inside the game. I mean, he sounded really sad. Definitely changed my mindset about not caring or caring about the open bracket, so kudos to that caller.
Hmm I can definitely agree regarding the point of keeping the interest of sc2 viewers and players. I do believe MLG is better off having an open bracket (whether it interests me or not), but this seems to be a one off event. I remember reading something in the form of a tweet or reddit post by Sundance, that they have plans that would give amateurs even more opportunity this year. I guess we will have to wait and see. I just think there is too much overreaction (not from you of course).
Yeah, thinking about this a bit more, and looking at the really awesome line up, I'm actually pretty excited about this. There's no way they can guarantee server stability, right after launch, so removing the open bracket just makes a lot of sense.
I'm sad about the lack of open bracket too, but still looking forward to this tournament. It ia a difficult situation, but most likely it's a one off because Beta.
Hoping glade beats sen! Otherwise I'm a fan of most ESF players there so rooting for them
On February 01 2013 15:36 TheEmulator wrote: HOTS in MLG, that sounds pretty sick
Until you read everything that MLG removed from the event compared to previous MLG events.
not really. we are getting legit HotS tournament play starting in 4 days. As someone who has been playing HotS for a few months now and isn't nearly as interested in WoL anymore, I'm rather excited. I'll miss the open bracket, but I can live without it for this one event. I get to watch Flash, Thorzain, Life, Stephano, Rain, and other gosu players in HotS.
Shit happens, you gotta deal with it. And thats what MLG is doing. You can act like a child and pout, kick and scream about it. Or you can be an adult, look at the big picture and realize, hey this is the first HotS tournament! And Flash is playing in it.
On February 01 2013 15:36 TheEmulator wrote: HOTS in MLG, that sounds pretty sick
Until you read everything that MLG removed from the event compared to previous MLG events.
not really. we are getting legit HotS tournament play starting in 4 days. As someone who has been playing HotS for a few months now and isn't nearly as interested in WoL anymore, I'm rather excited. I'll miss the open bracket, but I can live without it for this one event. I get to watch Flash, Thorzain, Life, Stephano, Rain, and other gosu players in HotS.
Shit happens, you gotta deal with it. And thats what MLG is doing. You can act like a child and pout, kick and scream about it. Or you can be an adult, look at the big picture and realize, hey this is the first HotS tournament! And Flash is playing in it.
On February 01 2013 15:36 TheEmulator wrote: HOTS in MLG, that sounds pretty sick
Until you read everything that MLG removed from the event compared to previous MLG events.
not really. we are getting legit HotS tournament play starting in 4 days. As someone who has been playing HotS for a few months now and isn't nearly as interested in WoL anymore, I'm rather excited. I'll miss the open bracket, but I can live without it for this one event. I get to watch Flash, Thorzain, Life, Stephano, Rain, and other gosu players in HotS.
Shit happens, you gotta deal with it. And thats what MLG is doing. You can act like a child and pout, kick and scream about it. Or you can be an adult, look at the big picture and realize, hey this is the first HotS tournament! And Flash is playing in it.
They also removed the lower bracket. 32 player single elimination.
so? i'm fine with single elim. It also means no extended series. And it means we get to see every game.
On February 01 2013 15:36 TheEmulator wrote: HOTS in MLG, that sounds pretty sick
Until you read everything that MLG removed from the event compared to previous MLG events.
not really. we are getting legit HotS tournament play starting in 4 days. As someone who has been playing HotS for a few months now and isn't nearly as interested in WoL anymore, I'm rather excited. I'll miss the open bracket, but I can live without it for this one event. I get to watch Flash, Thorzain, Life, Stephano, Rain, and other gosu players in HotS.
Shit happens, you gotta deal with it. And thats what MLG is doing. You can act like a child and pout, kick and scream about it. Or you can be an adult, look at the big picture and realize, hey this is the first HotS tournament! And Flash is playing in it.
They also removed the lower bracket. 32 player single elimination.
so? i'm fine with single elim. It also means no extended series. And it means we get to see every game.
Hey man, people are too busy pitchforking and stuff over something they normally wouldn't care about, get your positivity and logic out of here!
On February 01 2013 06:15 RemarK wrote: Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups. I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who bought tickets to this event in advance, especially if they were hoping to compete.
Oh well, IPL seems willing to pick up MLG's slack so it's not the end of the world or anything, just a lose-lose situation where spectators get worse games and a bunch of talented players who are stronger than the invites don't get the chance to play in MLG.
The bad map pool is just icing on the cake
When you start your post off with “Not to be negative, but this is a terrible format with laughable matchups,” its not a really good start. It is pretty clear you didn’t read the thread and are only here to hate on MLG and have no real argument what so ever. People don’t know if IPL is having a true open bracket and their event is still WoL, it is pretty dumb.
Also, there is no data on what is a broken or not broken map in HotS. But I am sure there are some experts out there that will tell you otherwise.
There is idiotic design regardless of HotS or WoL and those 3 Blizzard maps are simply not worthy to be played. You won't find many mapmakers disagreeing with that.
There is plenty of great unplayed community maps and it's not hard to ask the mapmakers to cooperate (as IPL proves, watch IPL map tournament in some hours).
Well this seems more like a giant showmatch tournament rather than actual MLG championship competition, with open bracket missing and invite only qualifiers with mostly fan favorites.
On February 01 2013 22:45 DarkLordOlli wrote: Well this seems more like a giant showmatch tournament rather than actual MLG championship competition, with open bracket missing and invite only qualifiers with mostly fan favorites.
It's like MvP part 2 (which is understandable with their KeSPA deal and all that).
On February 01 2013 13:48 magicallypuzzled wrote: there always going to be some people that are odd choices in any invitational other wise the invites just seem boring.
The onetwo questionable invites are Jjakji... Wins a GSL Championship a year ago, falls to Code A the next season, stays in Code A for 2 more seasons, falls out of the GSL, requalifies, falls out of the GSL again, and doesn't win a single game in the Code A Preliminaries this season... Also he's never attended a MLG IIRC... Only foreign event he's been to is IPL4... Unless you count the online portion of Iron Squid 1...
and GuMiho, who weirdly accepted an invite despite saying he's not going to attend any foreign events until he's a GSL Champion.
The one questionable non-invite is soO, the MvP Invitational Champion...
Nobody know who was invited and turned it down for one reason or another and they certainly are not going to cheapen their own event but saying coulda woulda shoulda.
Well, if you look the eSF side, I don't think anyone turned them down. And the reason Jjajki was picked because all teams on eSF got at least 1 spot (same with Kespa). The teams all sent their 'star' players
Let's take a look at eSF.
Life, Leenock, Bomber already in so that is 2 ST and 1 FXO
why can't they hold an online qualifier for a few spots? there are players like me who are top 20 gm on HOTS as of now, who will probably provide better games for the viewers than 1/2 of the players on here who are still playing WOL.
On February 02 2013 00:19 hellokittySC2 wrote: why can't they hold an online qualifier for a few spots? there are players like me who are top 20 gm on HOTS as of now, who will probably provide better games for the viewers than 1/2 of the players on here who are still playing WOL.
On February 02 2013 00:19 hellokittySC2 wrote: why can't they hold an online qualifier for a few spots? there are players like me who are top 20 gm on HOTS as of now, who will probably provide better games for the viewers than 1/2 of the players on here who are still playing WOL.
not only that, but open bracket or an open online qualifer is a good way for people to get their foot into the door. It lets talentend players get on the radar of teams if they make it through. And it also weeds the people who should be pros and people who are stream personalities.
On February 02 2013 00:19 hellokittySC2 wrote: why can't they hold an online qualifier for a few spots? there are players like me who are top 20 gm on HOTS as of now, who will probably provide better games for the viewers than 1/2 of the players on here who are still playing WOL.
I agree actually, early WoL for example had tons of new player rising in the scene because they showed creative strategies (see Catz, Destiny, Spanishiwa, Kiwikaki, etc.) and it was awesome to watch as well. This could be so incredibly refreshing for the scene and for viewers but instead they're mostly inviting people who are still focused mainly on WoL who will most likely stick to WoL-esque styles instead of going batshit crazy with new units and strategies.
My guess is that this invitational is kinda a show off for HotS and the next tournament will have the open bracket
I remember a tweet / reddit post from someone at MLG and said that this format would only last one tournament, and I assume by format they meant invitational instead of open bracket
On February 01 2013 14:57 Goldfish wrote: I actually heard a caller from inside the game express his disappointment with no open bracket, and now I'm sad.
It's too bad MLG didn't announce it way before hand that there won't be an open bracket for HotS (assuming they made the decision a while ago that is).
What's disappointing about no open bracket and no form of open qualifiers is the fact that what made MLG exciting was the combination of 3 things: The top players from previous MLGs, The best players at the time of the online qualifiers of the event, and the open bracket providing the best players that didn't qualify or get invited a chance to prove themselves.
Edit - Instead of just Leenock's story, here's a list:
If there was no open bracket:
*Leenock would never be a champion. He would just be some Korean scrub that got 2nd place at a GSL at the end of 2011.
*That legendary TvT between BoxeR and Rain on Metalopolis never would have happened.
*HerO, JYP, and PuMa never would have played in a MLG without qualifying.
*MKP would have never been sent to MLG by reddit and the help of his fans, proving that this community is something special.
*TheStC never would have played amazing games for us to end up in 3rd place at two MLGs.
*X number of Polt vs. Stephano series never would have happened.
*NaNiwa never would have been a MLG Champion.
*CranK never would have been sent to MLG by reddit and Axiom might not even exist.
Just a few. I'm sure there's more.
All these things are true, but MLG will go back to the open bracket format after this event. It is so clear that this is a one event thing due to the HotS release date. MLG has said several times that Blizzard and they have concerns that they would not be able to run a stable open bracket at the event due to stability issues. Events like this are booked months if not close to a full year in advance, so they are limiting what can go wrong. It is not like this is the last MLG ever.
It is not like MLG went out of its way to screw players over. They clearly wants an open bracket, but they can’t do it for this one event. People are really acting like the open bracket is gone forver, which is just not the case.
Didn't the last IPL not have an open bracket? And it was a great tournament. Needless to say people like to complain for the sake of complaining. I just hope they're not under the impression that their complaining in this thread is consequential.
So much whining over no open bracket... it's hilarious. Sure, go ahead and proudly say you'll boycott this tournament because of it. Noone cares. It'll be epic and shame on you for missing on it.
On February 02 2013 02:37 Doodsmack wrote: Didn't the last IPL not have an open bracket? And it was a great tournament. Needless to say people like to complain for the sake of complaining. I just hope they're not under the impression that their complaining in this thread is consequential.
Yeah just a bunch of whiners here circle-jerking about their hatred for MLG, I haven't read a single legitimate criticism yet. R)
On February 02 2013 02:37 Doodsmack wrote: Didn't the last IPL not have an open bracket? And it was a great tournament. Needless to say people like to complain for the sake of complaining. I just hope they're not under the impression that their complaining in this thread is consequential.
Yeah just a bunch of whiners here circle-jerking about their hatred for MLG, I haven't read a single legitimate criticism yet. R)
There is no question that it is a bandwagon of people complaining about things that other events have had, without taking into account the reasons why MLG had opted to not have the open bracket for one event.
On February 02 2013 02:37 Doodsmack wrote: Didn't the last IPL not have an open bracket? And it was a great tournament. Needless to say people like to complain for the sake of complaining. I just hope they're not under the impression that their complaining in this thread is consequential.
Yeah just a bunch of whiners here circle-jerking about their hatred for MLG, I haven't read a single legitimate criticism yet. R)
Well IPL did have qualifiers though at least but I don't know how many people can qualify through it though and I feel there should be more qualifying spots then invites.
But I think MLG's excuse for not having any sort of open qualifier because it's a beta is kinda silly. They are doing the qualifiers for their invite qualifier on the beta and I just don't see it being that big of an issue but w/e I will still watch it cause it's hots and will have sick players in it ^_^
On February 02 2013 04:11 MLG_Adam wrote: There is a reason we did not have Open Online HOTS qualifiers. We originally had spots for each region awarded by open online qualifiers.
There is always more to the story, and I'm curious to how this is going to shake out.
Regardless we have more to announce and this is again a format UNIQUE TO DALLAS.
But what are you waiting for? It got out 11 days ago and the longer the wait the bigger the hate (sorry, I had to rhyme). No but really, the faster you announce it the better.
On February 02 2013 04:11 MLG_Adam wrote: There is a reason we did not have Open Online HOTS qualifiers. We originally had spots for each region awarded by open online qualifiers.
There is always more to the story, and I'm curious to how this is going to shake out.
Regardless we have more to announce and this is again a format UNIQUE TO DALLAS.
Keep being awesome MLG! Sad to not have OB for Dallas but also kind of glad. Open bracket is extremely taxing for everyone.Open online qualifiers before the event might just be a better route in the future anyway!
On February 02 2013 04:11 MLG_Adam wrote: There is a reason we did not have Open Online HOTS qualifiers. We originally had spots for each region awarded by open online qualifiers.
There is always more to the story, and I'm curious to how this is going to shake out.
Regardless we have more to announce and this is again a format UNIQUE TO DALLAS.
Keep being awesome MLG! Sad to not have OB for Dallas but also kind of glad. Open bracket is extremely taxing for everyone.Open online qualifiers before the event might just be a better route in the future anyway!
My only criticism... Why no HyuN invite?? T.T
Believe it or not we actually have an internal ranking based on global finishes from every tournament that occurred in 2012. We used that ranking to invite players per region.
On February 02 2013 04:11 MLG_Adam wrote: There is a reason we did not have Open Online HOTS qualifiers. We originally had spots for each region awarded by open online qualifiers.
There is always more to the story, and I'm curious to how this is going to shake out.
Regardless we have more to announce and this is again a format UNIQUE TO DALLAS.
Keep being awesome MLG! Sad to not have OB for Dallas but also kind of glad. Open bracket is extremely taxing for everyone.Open online qualifiers before the event might just be a better route in the future anyway!
My only criticism... Why no HyuN invite?? T.T
Believe it or not we actually have an internal ranking based on global finishes from every tournament that occurred in 2012. We used that ranking to invite players per region.
Cool, good to know! Wasn't really a criticism though I'm just a HyuN fanboy and a good MLG run could help him get a team
On February 01 2013 02:21 MLG_Adam wrote: We wanted to have huge open online qualifiers for each region but due to HOTS beta stability we had to run only invitational activity.
On February 02 2013 04:11 MLG_Adam wrote: There is a reason we did not have Open Online HOTS qualifiers. We originally had spots for each region awarded by open online qualifiers.
There is always more to the story, and I'm curious to how this is going to shake out.
Regardless we have more to announce and this is again a format UNIQUE TO DALLAS.
Keep being awesome MLG! Sad to not have OB for Dallas but also kind of glad. Open bracket is extremely taxing for everyone.Open online qualifiers before the event might just be a better route in the future anyway!
My only criticism... Why no HyuN invite?? T.T
Believe it or not we actually have an internal ranking based on global finishes from every tournament that occurred in 2012. We used that ranking to invite players per region.
Does this ranking have anything to do with the MLG-ESL-Dreamhack partnership? If so, is the ranking made available to the players AND fans?
Cant say that I care much about it being invite only. I guess the players (that are left out) have the right to be angry but as a fan I see many "must see" games that are a really good selling point for MLG.
On February 02 2013 07:30 pureability wrote: Oh btw. There is a 192 TEAM COD open bracket but no HOTS open bracket. Meanwhile there are I think 4/5 people on a COD team. MLG rocks.
What does that have to do with anything? COD has been out since November.
I really do. I understand exactly why everyone is mad that there is zero open components to our Dallas competition. I can tell you with 100% sincerity that every single person at MLG (all 30ish of us) agree whole heartedly. We started out as an underdog in this space 10 years ago with the aim of making video games an aspirational, competitive “sport”. That trait as a company culture is still what drives us today and serves as the back bone of what we strive to do from a tournament offering.
So how did we get to the situation at hand with Dallas SC2? For starters, when we picked 3/15-3/17 as our first date of 2013 and went about sourcing venues, HOTS’ release date was not announced. The activity you see planned out now for Dallas was similar to our original plan for WOL that we had started dreaming up in 2012. However, the key difference was we had planned to have nearly all of the spots awarded via open competition within each region. When HOTS was announced for the same weekend as our event we immediately consulted Blizzard and we mutually decided that large open competition on beta servers might not lead to the best customer experience. So we improvised as best as we could to create the structure that we have now. We did an internal ranking of players taking into account every single global event in 2012 and meted out regional invites based on that hierarchy. While some of you might not like the new structure, it will still harbor many of the very best SC2 players based on 2012 global performance and we couldn’t be more excited about seeing it unfold.
I’d also like to point out some key items that we strove to fix based on community feedback, and just general milestones:
• “MLG books over other events” Early in 2012 we reached out to other organizations to ensure that any event we were planning to book was not in conflict with any other global tournaments. • “MLG and GSL don’t like each other” While this entire situation was boiling publicly, behind the scenes we have always been on good terms with GSL. When I set about creating our 2012 structure, I reached out Mr. Chae and with his help we worked with directly with the ESF to include them in our qualification. • “MLG and KESPA don’t want anyone else involved” KESPA will continue to be our partner and ally within this space. As we expanded out our league relationships, we were able to not only maintain our great KESPA relationship, but strengthen it through increased communication. • “MLG’s production needs to step up” We agree. With 200+ open participants and TBD group results, creating a stellar broadcast was a hectic endeavor. Our goal for 2013 was to slow down and do more by doing less. What does that mean? It means I don’t want a great series to happen on the floor and no one outside of those in the room knows it even happened. Players deserve to be treated like stars and if in attendance to have their matches broadcast. So we set about exploring a structure that allowed us to prepare an incredible live event production and broadcast SHOW weeks in advance not the day of the tournament. • “MLG looks like a trade show” Agree again. Expect our first complete event overhaul since 2006. Hell, since 2003 as the current iteration is the same basic floor plan that we have used since the beginning. Everything will be elevated this year. • “Double elimination is not a great fan experience” We want every match to mean something and for our structure to be EXTREMELY easy to follow. Winner advances, loser goes home. • Other items to note:
o $75,000 in prize money with 16 players earning money o Every single qualified player will have a flight and hotel paid by MLG o Enhanced broadcast experience. We’re not done announcing AMAZING broadcast perks for our events
So in conclusion, and to reiterate our previous comments on the situation: this format is being used ONLY for Dallas. We are not done announcing details for the 2013 season and I am very confident that many of the concerns will be squelched once they come to light. I know many people are not happy with us right now, and I know others are taking shots while we appear to be down, but I ask you to bear with us and understand that this is a very unique situation. We have ALWAYS had an open component to our season, and we will strive to do so in the future. Dallas will be an amazing kick off to Heart of the Swarm and I promise we will put on an amazing tournament and show.
Thank you for your support. This is our 10th year operating tournaments, and we could not have done it without our fans.
thx for the clarification. Looking forward to MLG Dallas. I am sure not playing WOL there is the right call even if it costs the open bracket and stuff. As long as there are opportunities for the local players for the following events i am ok with it.
I stand mostly behind MLG here. I really appreaciate, that you take this so serious Adam. I honestly think we have a small but very vocal minority here. I think your tournament will be a success despite all the problems you have due to the HotS release date. A Beta qualification round is allways problematic, since the balance shifts within weeks during a beta. This will create a very random result nontheless. And MLG is not only about SC2. They set their date and can't just change it, because Blizzard decided to release HotS right before. The solution they made seems to be like the best possible and the players they chosed all very much deserve their spot and most of the SC2 fans will have a lot of fun with your event! I didn't like the MvP series at all, but this time you did the best you could do in these circumstances.
On February 02 2013 09:53 MLG_Adam wrote: To quote my boss…
“I get it”
I really do. I understand exactly why everyone is mad that there is zero open components to our Dallas competition. I can tell you with 100% sincerity that every single person at MLG (all 30ish of us) agree whole heartedly. We started out as an underdog in this space 10 years ago with the aim of making video games an aspirational, competitive “sport”. That trait as a company culture is still what drives us today and serves as the back bone of what we strive to do from a tournament offering.
So how did we get to the situation at hand with Dallas SC2? For starters, when we picked 3/15-3/17 as our first date of 2013 and went about sourcing venues, HOTS’ release date was not announced. The activity you see planned out now for Dallas was similar to our original plan for WOL that we had started dreaming up in 2012. However, the key difference was we had planned to have nearly all of the spots awarded via open competition within each region. When HOTS was announced for the same weekend as our event we immediately consulted Blizzard and we mutually decided that large open competition on beta servers might not lead to the best customer experience. So we improvised as best as we could to create the structure that we have now. We did an internal ranking of players taking into account every single global event in 2012 and meted out regional invites based on that hierarchy. While some of you might not like the new structure, it will still harbor many of the very best SC2 players based on 2012 global performance and we couldn’t be more excited about seeing it unfold.
I’d also like to point out some key items that we strove to fix based on community feedback, and just general milestones:
• “MLG books over other events” Early in 2012 we reached out to other organizations to ensure that any event we were planning to book was not in conflict with any other global tournaments. • “MLG and GSL don’t like each other” While this entire situation was boiling publicly, behind the scenes we have always been on good terms with GSL. When I set about creating our 2012 structure, I reached out Mr. Chae and with his help we worked with directly with the ESF to include them in our qualification. • “MLG and KESPA don’t want anyone else involved” KESPA will continue to be our partner and ally within this space. As we expanded out our league relationships, we were able to not only maintain our great KESPA relationship, but strengthen it through increased communication. • “MLG’s production needs to step up” We agree. With 200+ open participants and TBD group results, creating a stellar broadcast was a hectic endeavor. Our goal for 2013 was to slow down and do more by doing less. What does that mean? It means I don’t want a great series to happen on the floor and no one outside of those in the room knows it even happened. Players deserve to be treated like stars and if in attendance to have their matches broadcast. So we set about exploring a structure that allowed us to prepare an incredible live event production and broadcast SHOW weeks in advance not the day of the tournament. • “MLG looks like a trade show” Agree again. Expect our first complete event overhaul since 2006. Hell, since 2003 as the current iteration is the same basic floor plan that we have used since the beginning. Everything will be elevated this year. • “Double elimination is not a great fan experience” We want every match to mean something and for our structure to be EXTREMELY easy to follow. Winner advances, loser goes home. • Other items to note:
o $75,000 in prize money with 16 players earning money o Every single qualified player will have a flight and hotel paid by MLG o Enhanced broadcast experience. We’re not done announcing AMAZING broadcast perks for our events
So in conclusion, and to reiterate our previous comments on the situation: this format is being used ONLY for Dallas. We are not done announcing details for the 2013 season and I am very confident that many of the concerns will be squelched once they come to light. I know many people are not happy with us right now, and I know others are taking shots while we appear to be down, but I ask you to bear with us and understand that this is a very unique situation. We have ALWAYS had an open component to our season, and we will strive to do so in the future. Dallas will be an amazing kick off to Heart of the Swarm and I promise we will put on an amazing tournament and show.
Thank you for your support. This is our 10th year operating tournaments, and we could not have done it without our fans.
Excellent post. Happy to see that MLG has heard the community's thoughts; very excited to see how things work out.
On February 02 2013 09:53 MLG_Adam wrote: To quote my boss…
“I get it”
I really do. I understand exactly why everyone is mad that there is zero open components to our Dallas competition. I can tell you with 100% sincerity that every single person at MLG (all 30ish of us) agree whole heartedly. We started out as an underdog in this space 10 years ago with the aim of making video games an aspirational, competitive “sport”. That trait as a company culture is still what drives us today and serves as the back bone of what we strive to do from a tournament offering.
So how did we get to the situation at hand with Dallas SC2? For starters, when we picked 3/15-3/17 as our first date of 2013 and went about sourcing venues, HOTS’ release date was not announced. The activity you see planned out now for Dallas was similar to our original plan for WOL that we had started dreaming up in 2012. However, the key difference was we had planned to have nearly all of the spots awarded via open competition within each region. When HOTS was announced for the same weekend as our event we immediately consulted Blizzard and we mutually decided that large open competition on beta servers might not lead to the best customer experience. So we improvised as best as we could to create the structure that we have now. We did an internal ranking of players taking into account every single global event in 2012 and meted out regional invites based on that hierarchy. While some of you might not like the new structure, it will still harbor many of the very best SC2 players based on 2012 global performance and we couldn’t be more excited about seeing it unfold.
I’d also like to point out some key items that we strove to fix based on community feedback, and just general milestones:
• “MLG books over other events” Early in 2012 we reached out to other organizations to ensure that any event we were planning to book was not in conflict with any other global tournaments. • “MLG and GSL don’t like each other” While this entire situation was boiling publicly, behind the scenes we have always been on good terms with GSL. When I set about creating our 2012 structure, I reached out Mr. Chae and with his help we worked with directly with the ESF to include them in our qualification. • “MLG and KESPA don’t want anyone else involved” KESPA will continue to be our partner and ally within this space. As we expanded out our league relationships, we were able to not only maintain our great KESPA relationship, but strengthen it through increased communication. • “MLG’s production needs to step up” We agree. With 200+ open participants and TBD group results, creating a stellar broadcast was a hectic endeavor. Our goal for 2013 was to slow down and do more by doing less. What does that mean? It means I don’t want a great series to happen on the floor and no one outside of those in the room knows it even happened. Players deserve to be treated like stars and if in attendance to have their matches broadcast. So we set about exploring a structure that allowed us to prepare an incredible live event production and broadcast SHOW weeks in advance not the day of the tournament. • “MLG looks like a trade show” Agree again. Expect our first complete event overhaul since 2006. Hell, since 2003 as the current iteration is the same basic floor plan that we have used since the beginning. Everything will be elevated this year. • “Double elimination is not a great fan experience” We want every match to mean something and for our structure to be EXTREMELY easy to follow. Winner advances, loser goes home. • Other items to note:
o $75,000 in prize money with 16 players earning money o Every single qualified player will have a flight and hotel paid by MLG o Enhanced broadcast experience. We’re not done announcing AMAZING broadcast perks for our events
So in conclusion, and to reiterate our previous comments on the situation: this format is being used ONLY for Dallas. We are not done announcing details for the 2013 season and I am very confident that many of the concerns will be squelched once they come to light. I know many people are not happy with us right now, and I know others are taking shots while we appear to be down, but I ask you to bear with us and understand that this is a very unique situation. We have ALWAYS had an open component to our season, and we will strive to do so in the future. Dallas will be an amazing kick off to Heart of the Swarm and I promise we will put on an amazing tournament and show.
Thank you for your support. This is our 10th year operating tournaments, and we could not have done it without our fans.
great post adam, I'm sure it's gonna be a sick event and I seriously can't wait for it to start.
People posting that they it's not fair that it is invite only are being completely ridiculous.
HOTS is still in the beta phase and there is going to be issues that are going to come up that an invite tournament can better deal with. When WOL first came out there were big tournaments that were invite only. Guess what! Those players earned the right to get invited by the time and effort they have put in or the skill they have shown.
There will be MLG tournaments that have open brackets, I guarantee it. People whining that it is an invite only tournament for a beta when no other big tournaments have been run yet it is stupid.
On February 01 2013 15:36 TheEmulator wrote: HOTS in MLG, that sounds pretty sick
Until you read everything that MLG removed from the event compared to previous MLG events.
not really. we are getting legit HotS tournament play starting in 4 days. As someone who has been playing HotS for a few months now and isn't nearly as interested in WoL anymore, I'm rather excited. I'll miss the open bracket, but I can live without it for this one event. I get to watch Flash, Thorzain, Life, Stephano, Rain, and other gosu players in HotS.
Shit happens, you gotta deal with it. And thats what MLG is doing. You can act like a child and pout, kick and scream about it. Or you can be an adult, look at the big picture and realize, hey this is the first HotS tournament! And Flash is playing in it.
hahahaha yeah right
I'm amused sometimes at how many people come out of the woodwork to get in some kind general snide remark whenever something negative happens to organizations. The whole kicking people while they're down thing is really annoying to read.
Thanks for the explanation, seems a lot more reasonable now. One point I disagree though was double elimination not being a cool viewing experience? I think it's great if players get a second shot, I hate when one Bo3 series decides their entire tournament life. I always watch out for impressive losers bracket runs. So please don't cut that out!
if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous.
MLG have made a mistake, in my opinion. To the customers (viewers and players) the obvious solution to the Dallas problem would of been to have open online qualifiers in WoL and then a live finals in HoTS. Obviously it is too late to change it now, but at least it is only for one tournament and not all year.
Great post Adam - I am confused why a lot of this information this wasn't included in the OP. MLG must have realized this sort of community fallout was coming?
I support your decision to have no open bracket for this one time for avoiding to get into the danger of having huge issues. Look at what problems Blizzard had with the start of Diablo 3, who knows how stable the servers will be so soon after the launch of HOTS. The less players, the less possible problems and all of us viewers want a professionally produced tournament. So having to choose between WoL+Open Bracket or HOTS without Open bracket is not difficult as probably 90% of people would rather see HOTS at that point.
On February 02 2013 22:17 TigerKarl wrote: I support your decision to have no open bracket for this one time for avoiding to get into the danger of having huge issues. Look at what problems Blizzard had with the start of Diablo 3, who knows how stable the servers will be so soon after the launch of HOTS. The less players, the less possible problems and all of us viewers want a professionally produced tournament. So having to choose between WoL+Open Bracket or HOTS without Open bracket is not difficult as probably 90% of people would rather see HOTS at that point.
what kind of *huge issues* are you going to have? pro gamers will still win and get through like the previous OPEN brackets, i don't understand what kind of professionalism is there.
On February 02 2013 22:17 TigerKarl wrote: I support your decision to have no open bracket for this one time for avoiding to get into the danger of having huge issues. Look at what problems Blizzard had with the start of Diablo 3, who knows how stable the servers will be so soon after the launch of HOTS. The less players, the less possible problems and all of us viewers want a professionally produced tournament. So having to choose between WoL+Open Bracket or HOTS without Open bracket is not difficult as probably 90% of people would rather see HOTS at that point.
what kind of *huge issues* are you going to have? pro gamers will still win and get through like the previous OPEN brackets, i don't understand what kind of professionalism is there.
They are no longer running open brackets at the event, but having qualifiers before hand. MLG likely booked the event space with that in mind. Since the beta is always in a state of flux, going down and has a number of issues, running a qualifier on that would be less than desirable. Even if they ran it in WoL, there would be the issue of people qualifying and then getting knocked out in the first round because they did not practice HotS, or people who are focusing on HotS not qualifying in WoL.
In the end, there was no fair way to run a qualifier for an event 3 days after HotS released. There is always the next event for people who have been throwing down hard on HotS.
On February 01 2013 15:36 TheEmulator wrote: HOTS in MLG, that sounds pretty sick
Until you read everything that MLG removed from the event compared to previous MLG events.
not really. we are getting legit HotS tournament play starting in 4 days. As someone who has been playing HotS for a few months now and isn't nearly as interested in WoL anymore, I'm rather excited. I'll miss the open bracket, but I can live without it for this one event. I get to watch Flash, Thorzain, Life, Stephano, Rain, and other gosu players in HotS.
Shit happens, you gotta deal with it. And thats what MLG is doing. You can act like a child and pout, kick and scream about it. Or you can be an adult, look at the big picture and realize, hey this is the first HotS tournament! And Flash is playing in it.
hahahaha yeah right
I'm amused sometimes at how many people come out of the woodwork to get in some kind general snide remark whenever something negative happens to organizations. The whole kicking people while they're down thing is really annoying to read.
Are you really this dumb? It's not kicking a little innocent person while they're down. MLG is a huge organization. They don't need little people on forums defending them. If we have complaints we have the right to say them.
On February 01 2013 15:36 TheEmulator wrote: HOTS in MLG, that sounds pretty sick
Until you read everything that MLG removed from the event compared to previous MLG events.
not really. we are getting legit HotS tournament play starting in 4 days. As someone who has been playing HotS for a few months now and isn't nearly as interested in WoL anymore, I'm rather excited. I'll miss the open bracket, but I can live without it for this one event. I get to watch Flash, Thorzain, Life, Stephano, Rain, and other gosu players in HotS.
Shit happens, you gotta deal with it. And thats what MLG is doing. You can act like a child and pout, kick and scream about it. Or you can be an adult, look at the big picture and realize, hey this is the first HotS tournament! And Flash is playing in it.
hahahaha yeah right
I'm amused sometimes at how many people come out of the woodwork to get in some kind general snide remark whenever something negative happens to organizations. The whole kicking people while they're down thing is really annoying to read.
Are you really this dumb? It's not kicking a little innocent person while they're down. MLG is a huge organization. They don't need little people on forums defending them. If we have complaints we have the right to say them.
And we people think your complains are overly entitled or just plain dumb, people have a right to say that as well. There is a growing number of people who appear to be very tired of negativity in the community.
That post gives a lot of information, thank you Adam! But for me the only important part riight now is:
When HOTS was announced for the same weekend as our event we immediately consulted Blizzard and we mutually decided that large open competition on beta servers might not lead to the best customer experience.
I'd love to hear more about this, because I still don't understand why 3 or 4 (NA, EU, KR, SEA/International) big open qualifiers with 28 players getting trips to Dallas are not possible. Because then people would not be that mad about no open bracket.
Well it will still be an awesome event for us, the viewers, just sad for the players but it will only get better for sure!
On February 01 2013 15:36 TheEmulator wrote: HOTS in MLG, that sounds pretty sick
Until you read everything that MLG removed from the event compared to previous MLG events.
not really. we are getting legit HotS tournament play starting in 4 days. As someone who has been playing HotS for a few months now and isn't nearly as interested in WoL anymore, I'm rather excited. I'll miss the open bracket, but I can live without it for this one event. I get to watch Flash, Thorzain, Life, Stephano, Rain, and other gosu players in HotS.
Shit happens, you gotta deal with it. And thats what MLG is doing. You can act like a child and pout, kick and scream about it. Or you can be an adult, look at the big picture and realize, hey this is the first HotS tournament! And Flash is playing in it.
hahahaha yeah right
I'm amused sometimes at how many people come out of the woodwork to get in some kind general snide remark whenever something negative happens to organizations. The whole kicking people while they're down thing is really annoying to read.
Are you really this dumb? It's not kicking a little innocent person while they're down. MLG is a huge organization. They don't need little people on forums defending them. If we have complaints we have the right to say them.
And we people think your complains are overly entitled or just plain dumb, people have a right to say that as well. There is a growing number of people who appear to be very tired of negativity in the community.
Great post Adam. I for one have been looking forward to it since the announcement(gogogo root vibe). To be honest some of the comments you elaborated on in your post were horrible arguments by the people and you handled them very well.
On February 02 2013 10:03 TeeTS wrote: I stand mostly behind MLG here. I really appreaciate, that you take this so serious Adam. I honestly think we have a small but very vocal minority here. I think your tournament will be a success despite all the problems you have due to the HotS release date. A Beta qualification round is allways problematic, since the balance shifts within weeks during a beta. This will create a very random result nontheless. And MLG is not only about SC2. They set their date and can't just change it, because Blizzard decided to release HotS right before. The solution they made seems to be like the best possible and the players they chosed all very much deserve their spot and most of the SC2 fans will have a lot of fun with your event! I didn't like the MvP series at all, but this time you did the best you could do in these circumstances.
people against no open brackets are a majority, not a minority. And HotS wont be balanced for the first three to six months anyways
On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote: if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous.
You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair.
Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats?
Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant.
On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote: if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous.
You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair.
Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats?
Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant.
and you are? a pro gamer? no, i don't think so. You don't understand the frustration when you know a lot of these players from WOL are not going to be as good as the players who have been practicing HOTS very hard, their decision of making of not having an open bracket is stupid, even without an open bracket, have some Online qualifiers would be nice, but instead, they invite people, why hyping it up when you're just going to fking invite people.
On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote: if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous.
You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair.
Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats?
Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant.
and you are? a pro gamer? no, i don't think so. You don't understand the frustration when you know a lot of these players from WOL are not going to be as good as the players who have been practicing HOTS very hard, their decision of making of not having an open bracket is stupid, even without an open bracket, have some Online qualifiers would be nice, but instead, they invite people, why hyping it up when you're just going to fking invite people.
MLG doesn't suck, whoever decided on this sucks.
No, I'm not a Pro gamer. Never claimed to be either. I'm a spectator I'm the one buying the passes to all these events. If you're not going to be as good as the other players maybe you should practice more? Like said MANY MANY times before, the invite only qualifiers are for Dallas only due to the game being in beta(Again reading comprehension please). The Beta server is not stable enough for open qualifiers as explained a billion times... So again I ask you to actually read what they are saying before throwing a hissy fit.
On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote: if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous.
You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair.
Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats?
Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant.
and you are? a pro gamer? no, i don't think so. You don't understand the frustration when you know a lot of these players from WOL are not going to be as good as the players who have been practicing HOTS very hard, their decision of making of not having an open bracket is stupid, even without an open bracket, have some Online qualifiers would be nice, but instead, they invite people, why hyping it up when you're just going to fking invite people.
MLG doesn't suck, whoever decided on this sucks.
No, I'm not a Pro gamer. Never claimed to be either. I'm a spectator I'm the one buying the passes to all these events. If you're not going to be as good as the other players maybe you should practice more? Like said MANY MANY times before, the invite only qualifiers are for Dallas only due to the game being in beta(Again reading comprehension please). The Beta server is not stable enough for open qualifiers as explained a billion times... So again I ask you to actually read what they are saying before throwing a hissy fit.
are you serious? so it's because "beta server is not stable enough" and "practice more" is suppose to get me into an invitational that's based off of WOL instead of HOTS skills? not as good as other players? where did you get that from? again, you should read my argument carefully, it's Unfair and unprofessional to just hold everyone up for like 2 months and expects a bang when you're just going to announce the entire tournament is invite only instead of some sort of qualifier don't you think?
there are a lot of people who shares the same frustration with me, believe me, i would love to attend mlg dallas, just tossing out the fact that it's dumb how the decision was made.
On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote: if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous.
You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair.
Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats?
Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant.
and you are? a pro gamer? no, i don't think so. You don't understand the frustration when you know a lot of these players from WOL are not going to be as good as the players who have been practicing HOTS very hard, their decision of making of not having an open bracket is stupid, even without an open bracket, have some Online qualifiers would be nice, but instead, they invite people, why hyping it up when you're just going to fking invite people.
MLG doesn't suck, whoever decided on this sucks.
No, I'm not a Pro gamer. Never claimed to be either. I'm a spectator I'm the one buying the passes to all these events. If you're not going to be as good as the other players maybe you should practice more? Like said MANY MANY times before, the invite only qualifiers are for Dallas only due to the game being in beta(Again reading comprehension please). The Beta server is not stable enough for open qualifiers as explained a billion times... So again I ask you to actually read what they are saying before throwing a hissy fit.
are you serious? so it's because "beta server is not stable enough" and "practice more" is suppose to get me into an invitational that's based off of WOL instead of HOTS skills? not as good as other players? where did you get that from? again, you should read my argument carefully, it's Unfair and unprofessional to just hold everyone up for like 2 months and expects a bang when you're just going to announce the entire tournament is invite only instead of some sort of qualifier don't you think?
there are a lot of people who shares the same frustration with me, believe me, i would love to attend mlg dallas, just tossing out the fact that it's dumb how the decision was made.
i think assuming an open bracket before it's announced is pretty dumb. Although i can understand the frustration, blaming mlg only is a bit egocentric.
On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote: if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous.
You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair.
Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats?
Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant.
and you are? a pro gamer? no, i don't think so. You don't understand the frustration when you know a lot of these players from WOL are not going to be as good as the players who have been practicing HOTS very hard, their decision of making of not having an open bracket is stupid, even without an open bracket, have some Online qualifiers would be nice, but instead, they invite people, why hyping it up when you're just going to fking invite people.
MLG doesn't suck, whoever decided on this sucks.
No, I'm not a Pro gamer. Never claimed to be either. I'm a spectator I'm the one buying the passes to all these events. If you're not going to be as good as the other players maybe you should practice more? Like said MANY MANY times before, the invite only qualifiers are for Dallas only due to the game being in beta(Again reading comprehension please). The Beta server is not stable enough for open qualifiers as explained a billion times... So again I ask you to actually read what they are saying before throwing a hissy fit.
are you serious? so it's because "beta server is not stable enough" and "practice more" is suppose to get me into an invitational that's based off of WOL instead of HOTS skills? not as good as other players? where did you get that from? again, you should read my argument carefully, it's Unfair and unprofessional to just hold everyone up for like 2 months and expects a bang when you're just going to announce the entire tournament is invite only instead of some sort of qualifier don't you think?
Never said practicing more would get you an invite, just pointing out that if you feel you're not going to be as good as some of these other guys maybe you should practice more? Do you think Flash and the Kespa guys have been practicing HotS while prepping for pro league and this GSL season? No! Again Invite only is for Dallas because yes the beta server is too unstable to hold open qualifiers.. I've tried reading your argument but you don't seem to have one, all I can gather from it is you being mad because you didn't get an invite.
I'll be angry with them if they stick with the invite only after Dallas yes. but for Dallas it's quite clearly their only option here. They maybe could have given a bit more heads up about it yes. but all in all everything on their part seems extremely reasonable if you'd look at it from their point of view and not be blinded by your own bias.
On February 02 2013 10:03 TeeTS wrote: I stand mostly behind MLG here. I really appreaciate, that you take this so serious Adam. I honestly think we have a small but very vocal minority here. I think your tournament will be a success despite all the problems you have due to the HotS release date. A Beta qualification round is allways problematic, since the balance shifts within weeks during a beta. This will create a very random result nontheless. And MLG is not only about SC2. They set their date and can't just change it, because Blizzard decided to release HotS right before. The solution they made seems to be like the best possible and the players they chosed all very much deserve their spot and most of the SC2 fans will have a lot of fun with your event! I didn't like the MvP series at all, but this time you did the best you could do in these circumstances.
people against no open brackets are a majority, not a minority. And HotS wont be balanced for the first three to six months anyways
Everyone wants an open qualifier process, but the majority of the viewers understand why it is difficult to hold a qualifier for HotS when the game is launching 3 days before the even. The people who are complaining and want an open qualifier for the event even with all the problems HotS would bring are the minority. Tens of thousandths of people watch these events and far fewer people are up in arms about the lack of an open bracket.
On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote: if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous.
You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair.
Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats?
Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant.
and you are? a pro gamer? no, i don't think so. You don't understand the frustration when you know a lot of these players from WOL are not going to be as good as the players who have been practicing HOTS very hard, their decision of making of not having an open bracket is stupid, even without an open bracket, have some Online qualifiers would be nice, but instead, they invite people, why hyping it up when you're just going to fking invite people.
MLG doesn't suck, whoever decided on this sucks.
No, I'm not a Pro gamer. Never claimed to be either. I'm a spectator I'm the one buying the passes to all these events. If you're not going to be as good as the other players maybe you should practice more? Like said MANY MANY times before, the invite only qualifiers are for Dallas only due to the game being in beta(Again reading comprehension please). The Beta server is not stable enough for open qualifiers as explained a billion times... So again I ask you to actually read what they are saying before throwing a hissy fit.
are you serious? so it's because "beta server is not stable enough" and "practice more" is suppose to get me into an invitational that's based off of WOL instead of HOTS skills? not as good as other players? where did you get that from? again, you should read my argument carefully, it's Unfair and unprofessional to just hold everyone up for like 2 months and expects a bang when you're just going to announce the entire tournament is invite only instead of some sort of qualifier don't you think?
Never said practicing more would get you an invite, just pointing out that if you feel you're not going to be as good as some of these other guys maybe you should practice more? Do you think Flash and the Kespa guys have been practicing HotS while prepping for pro league and this GSL season? No! Again Invite only is for Dallas because yes the beta server is too unstable to hold open qualifiers.. I've tried reading your argument but you don't seem to have one, all I can gather from it is you being mad because you didn't get an invite.
I'll be angry with them if they stick with the invite only after Dallas yes. but for Dallas it's quite clearly their only option here. They maybe could have given a bit more heads up about it yes. but all in all everything on their part seems extremely reasonable if you'd look at it from their point of view and not be blinded by your own bias.
HelloKitty's argument is simple, he is in top GM on the HotS server and wants to play in Dallas. He has beaten a bunch of pro players and wants to hit the mat and see if he can make his mark. His reasoning is entirely self interested and has little to do with the difficulties with running that process. You can't blame him for being upset, but the claims of MLG being unprofessional are totally off the mark. It may not be fair, but no one claimed that the MLG or any event was set up to be fair for everyone. The release date of HotS totally messed with MLG plans and they likely had a do a ton of work just to make sure the event went smoothly. I am sure if they could run an open qualifier, they would.
HelloKitty, if you are still top GM when the next MLG comes around, I am sure people will check to see how you do in the qualifiers.
On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote: if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous.
You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair.
Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats?
Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant.
and you are? a pro gamer? no, i don't think so. You don't understand the frustration when you know a lot of these players from WOL are not going to be as good as the players who have been practicing HOTS very hard, their decision of making of not having an open bracket is stupid, even without an open bracket, have some Online qualifiers would be nice, but instead, they invite people, why hyping it up when you're just going to fking invite people.
MLG doesn't suck, whoever decided on this sucks.
No, I'm not a Pro gamer. Never claimed to be either. I'm a spectator I'm the one buying the passes to all these events. If you're not going to be as good as the other players maybe you should practice more? Like said MANY MANY times before, the invite only qualifiers are for Dallas only due to the game being in beta(Again reading comprehension please). The Beta server is not stable enough for open qualifiers as explained a billion times... So again I ask you to actually read what they are saying before throwing a hissy fit.
are you serious? so it's because "beta server is not stable enough" and "practice more" is suppose to get me into an invitational that's based off of WOL instead of HOTS skills? not as good as other players? where did you get that from? again, you should read my argument carefully, it's Unfair and unprofessional to just hold everyone up for like 2 months and expects a bang when you're just going to announce the entire tournament is invite only instead of some sort of qualifier don't you think?
Never said practicing more would get you an invite, just pointing out that if you feel you're not going to be as good as some of these other guys maybe you should practice more? Do you think Flash and the Kespa guys have been practicing HotS while prepping for pro league and this GSL season? No! Again Invite only is for Dallas because yes the beta server is too unstable to hold open qualifiers.. I've tried reading your argument but you don't seem to have one, all I can gather from it is you being mad because you didn't get an invite.
I'll be angry with them if they stick with the invite only after Dallas yes. but for Dallas it's quite clearly their only option here. They maybe could have given a bit more heads up about it yes. but all in all everything on their part seems extremely reasonable if you'd look at it from their point of view and not be blinded by your own bias.
HelloKitty's argument is simple, he is in top GM on the HotS server and wants to play in Dallas. He has beaten a bunch of pro players and wants to hit the mat and see if he can make his mark. His reasoning is entirely self interested and has little to do with the difficulties with running that process. You can't blame him for being upset, but the claims of MLG being unprofessional are totally off the mark. It may not be fair, but no one claimed that the MLG or any event was set up to be fair for everyone. The release date of HotS totally messed with MLG plans and they likely had a do a ton of work just to make sure the event went smoothly. I am sure if they could run an open qualifier, they would.
HelloKitty, if you are still top GM when the next MLG comes around, I am sure people will check to see how you do in the qualifiers.
Most people don't like to support organizations that aren't fair. I'm kinda amazed that you admitted it isn't fair. It's really shooting yourself in the foot. I mean, you can say they're not obligated to be fair, but that's not likely to win them any fans. Personally, I'm significantly less interested in MLG when there's no open bracket. I'll still probably watch some of the bigger games, but the event feels so much less hyped now that there's no chance of someone crushing through the open bracket and doing well. Sure, it's self-interested, but I can't help what I like. Open brackets have always been a draw for me. No open bracket, less interest. You can say all you want about MLG's justification, but the bottom line is that the event is less interesting no matter what the reasoning behind it is.
Also, top GMs on HotS should 100% get invites to this event. It makes absolutely no sense to invite people based solely on WoL achievements considering a lot of players have been practicing HotS only.
On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote: if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous.
You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair.
Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats?
Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant.
and you are? a pro gamer? no, i don't think so. You don't understand the frustration when you know a lot of these players from WOL are not going to be as good as the players who have been practicing HOTS very hard, their decision of making of not having an open bracket is stupid, even without an open bracket, have some Online qualifiers would be nice, but instead, they invite people, why hyping it up when you're just going to fking invite people.
MLG doesn't suck, whoever decided on this sucks.
No, I'm not a Pro gamer. Never claimed to be either. I'm a spectator I'm the one buying the passes to all these events. If you're not going to be as good as the other players maybe you should practice more? Like said MANY MANY times before, the invite only qualifiers are for Dallas only due to the game being in beta(Again reading comprehension please). The Beta server is not stable enough for open qualifiers as explained a billion times... So again I ask you to actually read what they are saying before throwing a hissy fit.
are you serious? so it's because "beta server is not stable enough" and "practice more" is suppose to get me into an invitational that's based off of WOL instead of HOTS skills? not as good as other players? where did you get that from? again, you should read my argument carefully, it's Unfair and unprofessional to just hold everyone up for like 2 months and expects a bang when you're just going to announce the entire tournament is invite only instead of some sort of qualifier don't you think?
Never said practicing more would get you an invite, just pointing out that if you feel you're not going to be as good as some of these other guys maybe you should practice more? Do you think Flash and the Kespa guys have been practicing HotS while prepping for pro league and this GSL season? No! Again Invite only is for Dallas because yes the beta server is too unstable to hold open qualifiers.. I've tried reading your argument but you don't seem to have one, all I can gather from it is you being mad because you didn't get an invite.
I'll be angry with them if they stick with the invite only after Dallas yes. but for Dallas it's quite clearly their only option here. They maybe could have given a bit more heads up about it yes. but all in all everything on their part seems extremely reasonable if you'd look at it from their point of view and not be blinded by your own bias.
What is unstable about the beta server? Ive been playing it quite a bit and havent noticed anymore issues than WoL has.... Thats the confusing part to me, About how everyone defends the servers being unstable and I havent noticed anything of the sort that is out of the ordinary. And if the servers are so unstable, why is IPL6 is holding open online qualifiers, and an open bracket in hots? Yet MLG claims its impossible.
But so many other questions go unanswered such as... Is there going to be another Dallas stop this year? since this isnt a "real" mlg event its an exhibition. What are gold memberships good for competitive players? What exactly is unstable about the servers? Why arent some pros even practicing HOTS for this event? As to me its unprofessional to accept an invite you arent even going to spend time practicing for, regardless of whether your flash or some unknown.
On February 03 2013 05:19 DaCruise wrote: I dont get all the whines in this thread. I am looking forward to this tourny and think it will be a blast.
The whines are that if you are really good at HoTS now, you can't show your skills at the upcoming MLG because there is no open bracket. This is a pretty legitimate concern for upcoming pros or even established pros who have put A LOT of time into HoTS beta and really can't do anything.
Also of concern are the picks are made based on WoL internal rankings through MLG. It could be seen as illogical to have a tournament invites for a new game based on an old one. There are also some concerns over the players invited. Some people feel that players are there and shouldn't be......even based under WoL standards.
Finally, the reasoning as to why there is no open bracket seems to not quite make sense for a lot of people (including myself). I can understand not wanting to do qualifiers based on a beta for an unfinished game. But I don't see how the gaming coming out 3 days before the tournament hinders any legitimacy of an open bracket. If a pro didn't put in the time during the beta then they SHOULD get knocked out.
It seems like MLG framed their response in a strange way... they said that the open bracket is not possible due to the HOTS beta servers being unreliable. But why not just do what they've done at every other event and have the open bracket played live? As long as it's after the game launches, I don't see why that would be a problem. I could be mistaken, but it sounds like they were planning on removing the live open bracket regardless, and are trying to brush that detail under the carpet...
I was never a big fan of the open bracket. Until the last 1-2 rounds nearly all matches were pretty one-sided and not really interesting. I like a 32-64slot invitiational alot better. Super Tournament Format ftw!
When have the servers ever been "stable"? There are issues every tournament and it always results in a regame. That excuse is garbage. I completely understand hellokitty and other players frustrations.
This is an 100% unfair format that penalizes players who felt like they could have a new chance to compete with pros in a brand new game. It is extremely unprofessional and the people who will suffer are the players who play the game nonstop and want a chance to show off their skills. It sucks also because spectators and viewer count won't really be lower as a result. It is just the players who care most about the game who are getting screwed.
As much as I'd like to believe this, something inside of me is telling me not do to so. MLG was one of (if not) the first offline tournament that had an open bracket to give "non-seeded , or "non-qualified" players a chance of making it to group play. Even though this qualification/invite system is being done ONLY for Dallas (speculation that it is also happening for the other circuits), I have a feeling that this is some sort of a test that will make people back MLG for their first event in 2013. At the moment, we only know that this is going to be happening for Dallas, but I have a hunch that once the viewer numbers are in (which they are hoping is going to be high), this will continue to be the format going forward in 2013 (obviously not including any kind of open bracket system).
I really hope that the open bracket is reconsidered, or at least have a substitute that gives up and coming players a meaningful reason to book flights and hotels not only to spectate, but to also compete.
On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote: if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous.
You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair.
Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats?
Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant.
and you are? a pro gamer? no, i don't think so. You don't understand the frustration when you know a lot of these players from WOL are not going to be as good as the players who have been practicing HOTS very hard, their decision of making of not having an open bracket is stupid, even without an open bracket, have some Online qualifiers would be nice, but instead, they invite people, why hyping it up when you're just going to fking invite people.
MLG doesn't suck, whoever decided on this sucks.
No, I'm not a Pro gamer. Never claimed to be either. I'm a spectator I'm the one buying the passes to all these events. If you're not going to be as good as the other players maybe you should practice more? Like said MANY MANY times before, the invite only qualifiers are for Dallas only due to the game being in beta(Again reading comprehension please). The Beta server is not stable enough for open qualifiers as explained a billion times... So again I ask you to actually read what they are saying before throwing a hissy fit.
are you serious? so it's because "beta server is not stable enough" and "practice more" is suppose to get me into an invitational that's based off of WOL instead of HOTS skills? not as good as other players? where did you get that from? again, you should read my argument carefully, it's Unfair and unprofessional to just hold everyone up for like 2 months and expects a bang when you're just going to announce the entire tournament is invite only instead of some sort of qualifier don't you think?
Never said practicing more would get you an invite, just pointing out that if you feel you're not going to be as good as some of these other guys maybe you should practice more? Do you think Flash and the Kespa guys have been practicing HotS while prepping for pro league and this GSL season? No! Again Invite only is for Dallas because yes the beta server is too unstable to hold open qualifiers.. I've tried reading your argument but you don't seem to have one, all I can gather from it is you being mad because you didn't get an invite.
I'll be angry with them if they stick with the invite only after Dallas yes. but for Dallas it's quite clearly their only option here. They maybe could have given a bit more heads up about it yes. but all in all everything on their part seems extremely reasonable if you'd look at it from their point of view and not be blinded by your own bias.
What is unstable about the beta server? Ive been playing it quite a bit and havent noticed anymore issues than WoL has.... Thats the confusing part to me, About how everyone defends the servers being unstable and I havent noticed anything of the sort that is out of the ordinary. And if the servers are so unstable, why is IPL6 is holding open online qualifiers, and an open bracket in hots? Yet MLG claims its impossible.
But so many other questions go unanswered such as... Is there going to be another Dallas stop this year? since this isnt a "real" mlg event its an exhibition. What are gold memberships good for competitive players? What exactly is unstable about the servers? Why arent some pros even practicing HOTS for this event? As to me its unprofessional to accept an invite you arent even going to spend time practicing for, regardless of whether your flash or some unknown.
Ever thought about having to play HotS from Europe or Korea right now? The only server they're running is located here in the US so what are players from the EU and Korea supposed to do? Yes they can play but they'll have to deal with insane lag (and that's not the player's faults) which could give those who live here in the NA or close to it an advantage so how is that fair? I'm not saying this to try and defend MLG because I also don't like the idea of not having an open bracket but you have to consider both sides here and understand that no matter what MLG decided to do it wouldn't be entirely fair for some players.
Regardless I don't get why some people are freaking out over this. It's 1 event you can't play while IPL 6 has actually decided to run an open bracket so you're not really missing out on anything
Actually, Sundance blamed Blizzard for the reason being there will be no open bracket. Something about server load, etc etc.
Lets be clear about a few things.
MLG cares about one thing, and that is making money. It also knows, that even if people are pissed off, and it has an invite only tournament, that chances are very good that they will still sell a whole bunch of tickets and cover their expenses. Expenses, which, by the way, will be greatly reduced due to the lesser number of termals, PC's, logistics and support to run a puny little small tournament.
MLG's business model has changed. They have found, that streaming events is cheaper as an expense, and they still make a butt ton of money in subscriptions and advert revenue via Twitch. So, if it makes a lot of money, its good for business.
Things that are also true. If Starcraft 2, and HOTS does not make MLG boatloads of money, it will be flushed down the toilet and another game will take its place. MLG does not care about the game, the teams or the players. It does care about the fans being 'remotely' happy, so they will spend their money. That is all that matters. If people do not watch, they won't run that content.
I don't blame them, its an american company which shares the american dream. It is simply business and capitalism. Unfortunately, what our community wants, and what MLG wants, are two different things. We as fans want dynamic player rosters, tournament upsets, and drama with our games. MLG wants expenses down, revenue up, and if that means the same 8 koreans in the top 8 each and every touarnement, so be it. If they could generate maximum revenue, with the same 8 players at their studios, without any of the additiona costs of a venue event, and make the same money, trust me, they would run that 8 man tourney each and every single weekend.
MLG just wants to make content, for as little cost as possible, for fans to either pay for, or get advert revenue from, and gobble up. Make content, make money. The quality of the content does not have to be good. People will watch it, unless better content is available.
IEM or IPL or any other major tournament would have been well served to run a tourney the same weekend, with a streamed and casted open bracket with lots of vareity. MLG viewership numbers would have suffered badly if there was ANY competition that weekend. Simply, it would be like taking candy from a baby, as far as business goes.
MLG. This is business. oops. I mean, This is Esports!
Believe it or not we actually have an internal ranking based on global finishes from every tournament that occurred in 2012. We used that ranking to invite players per region.
Would you be opposed to releasing your ranking system? I am curious to see(and probably not alone) on how you weigh the various "other" events and as of now given that the only way players are invited is by holding position on your list it might clear up some preconceived bias.
On February 03 2013 10:06 Grimmyman123 wrote: Actually, Sundance blamed Blizzard for the reason being there will be no open bracket. Something about server load, etc etc.
Lets be clear about a few things.
MLG cares about one thing, and that is making money. It also knows, that even if people are pissed off, and it has an invite only tournament, that chances are very good that they will still sell a whole bunch of tickets and cover their expenses. Expenses, which, by the way, will be greatly reduced due to the lesser number of termals, PC's, logistics and support to run a puny little small tournament.
MLG's business model has changed. They have found, that streaming events is cheaper as an expense, and they still make a butt ton of money in subscriptions and advert revenue via Twitch. So, if it makes a lot of money, its good for business.
Things that are also true. If Starcraft 2, and HOTS does not make MLG boatloads of money, it will be flushed down the toilet and another game will take its place. MLG does not care about the game, the teams or the players. It does care about the fans being 'remotely' happy, so they will spend their money. That is all that matters. If people do not watch, they won't run that content.
I don't blame them, its an american company which shares the american dream. It is simply business and capitalism. Unfortunately, what our community wants, and what MLG wants, are two different things. We as fans want dynamic player rosters, tournament upsets, and drama with our games. MLG wants expenses down, revenue up, and if that means the same 8 koreans in the top 8 each and every touarnement, so be it. If they could generate maximum revenue, with the same 8 players at their studios, without any of the additiona costs of a venue event, and make the same money, trust me, they would run that 8 man tourney each and every single weekend.
MLG just wants to make content, for as little cost as possible, for fans to either pay for, or get advert revenue from, and gobble up. Make content, make money. The quality of the content does not have to be good. People will watch it, unless better content is available.
IEM or IPL or any other major tournament would have been well served to run a tourney the same weekend, with a streamed and casted open bracket with lots of vareity. MLG viewership numbers would have suffered badly if there was ANY competition that weekend. Simply, it would be like taking candy from a baby, as far as business goes.
MLG. This is business. oops. I mean, This is Esports!
No tournament is ever well served to run a tournament on the same weekend. Its actually incredibly stupid. And everything is business. You think its not for IEM or IPL? Give me a break. Why do you think IEM dropped CS? Business. Why is IPL putting more effort into LoL? Business.
On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote: if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous.
You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair.
Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats?
Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant.
and you are? a pro gamer? no, i don't think so. You don't understand the frustration when you know a lot of these players from WOL are not going to be as good as the players who have been practicing HOTS very hard, their decision of making of not having an open bracket is stupid, even without an open bracket, have some Online qualifiers would be nice, but instead, they invite people, why hyping it up when you're just going to fking invite people.
MLG doesn't suck, whoever decided on this sucks.
No, I'm not a Pro gamer. Never claimed to be either. I'm a spectator I'm the one buying the passes to all these events. If you're not going to be as good as the other players maybe you should practice more? Like said MANY MANY times before, the invite only qualifiers are for Dallas only due to the game being in beta(Again reading comprehension please). The Beta server is not stable enough for open qualifiers as explained a billion times... So again I ask you to actually read what they are saying before throwing a hissy fit.
are you serious? so it's because "beta server is not stable enough" and "practice more" is suppose to get me into an invitational that's based off of WOL instead of HOTS skills? not as good as other players? where did you get that from? again, you should read my argument carefully, it's Unfair and unprofessional to just hold everyone up for like 2 months and expects a bang when you're just going to announce the entire tournament is invite only instead of some sort of qualifier don't you think?
Never said practicing more would get you an invite, just pointing out that if you feel you're not going to be as good as some of these other guys maybe you should practice more? Do you think Flash and the Kespa guys have been practicing HotS while prepping for pro league and this GSL season? No! Again Invite only is for Dallas because yes the beta server is too unstable to hold open qualifiers.. I've tried reading your argument but you don't seem to have one, all I can gather from it is you being mad because you didn't get an invite.
I'll be angry with them if they stick with the invite only after Dallas yes. but for Dallas it's quite clearly their only option here. They maybe could have given a bit more heads up about it yes. but all in all everything on their part seems extremely reasonable if you'd look at it from their point of view and not be blinded by your own bias.
What is unstable about the beta server? Ive been playing it quite a bit and havent noticed anymore issues than WoL has.... Thats the confusing part to me, About how everyone defends the servers being unstable and I havent noticed anything of the sort that is out of the ordinary. And if the servers are so unstable, why is IPL6 is holding open online qualifiers, and an open bracket in hots? Yet MLG claims its impossible.
But so many other questions go unanswered such as... Is there going to be another Dallas stop this year? since this isnt a "real" mlg event its an exhibition. What are gold memberships good for competitive players? What exactly is unstable about the servers? Why arent some pros even practicing HOTS for this event? As to me its unprofessional to accept an invite you arent even going to spend time practicing for, regardless of whether your flash or some unknown.
Ever thought about having to play HotS from Europe or Korea right now? The only server they're running is located here in the US so what are players from the EU and Korea supposed to do? Yes they can play but they'll have to deal with insane lag (and that's not the player's faults) which could give those who live here in the NA or close to it an advantage so how is that fair? I'm not saying this to try and defend MLG because I also don't like the idea of not having an open bracket but you have to consider both sides here and understand that no matter what MLG decided to do it wouldn't be entirely fair for some players.
Regardless I don't get why some people are freaking out over this. It's 1 event you can't play while IPL 6 has actually decided to run an open bracket so you're not really missing out on anything
Well in my opinion it wouldn't be a huge travesty if the non-NA pros had to practice on a laggy server. Ideally, it would be great if everyone could practice lag-free. But I believe the trade-off in this case just isn't worth it (not having the open qualification AT ALL because some people might lag in practice). There are tournaments happening in many parts of the world... NA tournaments will naturally favor American players because of the shorter travel distance and lack of jetlag. Just as Korean tournaments are known for being extremely favorable to Koreans (or at least those living in Korea) because of the inclusive qualification process and long-term commitment needed to play through the tournament in one location. I think the issue that you're bringing up is-- can every tournament be equally accessible for every player? And in my opinion, I don't think that is or even should be the case. Tournament diversity will give people a wider spectrum of players and scenes to follow and is more efficient at bringing up-and-coming talent into the limelight.
On February 03 2013 10:06 Grimmyman123 wrote: Actually, Sundance blamed Blizzard for the reason being there will be no open bracket. Something about server load, etc etc.
Lets be clear about a few things.
MLG cares about one thing, and that is making money. It also knows, that even if people are pissed off, and it has an invite only tournament, that chances are very good that they will still sell a whole bunch of tickets and cover their expenses. Expenses, which, by the way, will be greatly reduced due to the lesser number of termals, PC's, logistics and support to run a puny little small tournament.
MLG's business model has changed. They have found, that streaming events is cheaper as an expense, and they still make a butt ton of money in subscriptions and advert revenue via Twitch. So, if it makes a lot of money, its good for business.
Things that are also true. If Starcraft 2, and HOTS does not make MLG boatloads of money, it will be flushed down the toilet and another game will take its place. MLG does not care about the game, the teams or the players. It does care about the fans being 'remotely' happy, so they will spend their money. That is all that matters. If people do not watch, they won't run that content.
I don't blame them, its an american company which shares the american dream. It is simply business and capitalism. Unfortunately, what our community wants, and what MLG wants, are two different things. We as fans want dynamic player rosters, tournament upsets, and drama with our games. MLG wants expenses down, revenue up, and if that means the same 8 koreans in the top 8 each and every touarnement, so be it. If they could generate maximum revenue, with the same 8 players at their studios, without any of the additiona costs of a venue event, and make the same money, trust me, they would run that 8 man tourney each and every single weekend.
MLG just wants to make content, for as little cost as possible, for fans to either pay for, or get advert revenue from, and gobble up. Make content, make money. The quality of the content does not have to be good. People will watch it, unless better content is available.
IEM or IPL or any other major tournament would have been well served to run a tourney the same weekend, with a streamed and casted open bracket with lots of vareity. MLG viewership numbers would have suffered badly if there was ANY competition that weekend. Simply, it would be like taking candy from a baby, as far as business goes.
MLG. This is business. oops. I mean, This is Esports!
No tournament is ever well served to run a tournament on the same weekend. Its actually incredibly stupid. And everything is business. You think its not for IEM or IPL? Give me a break. Why do you think IEM dropped CS? Business. Why is IPL putting more effort into LoL? Business.
I agree. The other two are businesses as well, your point being...... what exactly?
And competitors often do compete head to head for the same market. It just has not happened for LAN events yet. We saw the effects of GSL vs Proleague the other night when Stehono was on Code S, and EGTL in proleague. GSL had 3 times the viewers. 15k to 5k. Happens all the time.
Ousting your competition in LAN events? Easy. Offer a larger open bracket, prize pool, and larger prizing than your competitor, on the same weekend. Your competitor will have a very hard time getting top teir players to their event when 1st place is 5k or 10k larger, and the prize pool pays down to 32nd.
MLG is not the only player in this market, and they need to remember that, and that it's the fans that drives their business.
On February 03 2013 10:06 Grimmyman123 wrote: Actually, Sundance blamed Blizzard for the reason being there will be no open bracket. Something about server load, etc etc.
Lets be clear about a few things.
MLG cares about one thing, and that is making money. It also knows, that even if people are pissed off, and it has an invite only tournament, that chances are very good that they will still sell a whole bunch of tickets and cover their expenses. Expenses, which, by the way, will be greatly reduced due to the lesser number of termals, PC's, logistics and support to run a puny little small tournament.
MLG's business model has changed. They have found, that streaming events is cheaper as an expense, and they still make a butt ton of money in subscriptions and advert revenue via Twitch. So, if it makes a lot of money, its good for business.
Things that are also true. If Starcraft 2, and HOTS does not make MLG boatloads of money, it will be flushed down the toilet and another game will take its place. MLG does not care about the game, the teams or the players. It does care about the fans being 'remotely' happy, so they will spend their money. That is all that matters. If people do not watch, they won't run that content.
I don't blame them, its an american company which shares the american dream. It is simply business and capitalism. Unfortunately, what our community wants, and what MLG wants, are two different things. We as fans want dynamic player rosters, tournament upsets, and drama with our games. MLG wants expenses down, revenue up, and if that means the same 8 koreans in the top 8 each and every touarnement, so be it. If they could generate maximum revenue, with the same 8 players at their studios, without any of the additiona costs of a venue event, and make the same money, trust me, they would run that 8 man tourney each and every single weekend.
MLG just wants to make content, for as little cost as possible, for fans to either pay for, or get advert revenue from, and gobble up. Make content, make money. The quality of the content does not have to be good. People will watch it, unless better content is available.
IEM or IPL or any other major tournament would have been well served to run a tourney the same weekend, with a streamed and casted open bracket with lots of vareity. MLG viewership numbers would have suffered badly if there was ANY competition that weekend. Simply, it would be like taking candy from a baby, as far as business goes.
MLG. This is business. oops. I mean, This is Esports!
No tournament is ever well served to run a tournament on the same weekend. Its actually incredibly stupid. And everything is business. You think its not for IEM or IPL? Give me a break. Why do you think IEM dropped CS? Business. Why is IPL putting more effort into LoL? Business.
I agree. The other two are businesses as well, your point being...... what exactly?
And competitors often do compete head to head for the same market. It just has not happened for LAN events yet. We saw the effects of GSL vs Proleague the other night when Stehono was on Code S, and EGTL in proleague. GSL had 3 times the viewers. 15k to 5k. Happens all the time.
Ousting your competition in LAN events? Easy. Offer a larger open bracket, prize pool, and larger prizing than your competitor, on the same weekend. Your competitor will have a very hard time getting top teir players to their event when 1st place is 5k or 10k larger, and the prize pool pays down to 32nd.
MLG is not the only player in this market, and they need to remember that, and that it's the fans that drives their business.
Actually it has happened with LANs quite a bit. How you haven't noticed this, i'm not quite sure. And my whole point was about your last little line there. Taking a jab at MLG for running a business when so are the rest of the leagues.
MLG would have you think otherwise, that they actually care about esports and its growth, when all they really care about is their own business and its growth. the two are not intertwined.
On February 03 2013 14:07 Grimmyman123 wrote: not a jab at all. Stating facts and truths.
MLG would have you think otherwise, that they actually care about esports and its growth, when all they really care about is their own business and its growth. the two are not intertwined.
Actually your statement is a bit inaccurate. If esports does not grow at all then their potential for growth and making money is quite limited. Smaller pool of customers= less profit, grow that pool and you have the potential to make more money. With that said I'm sure they care about the growth of esports since it does benefit them in a major way. Any business owner would prioritize their business growth of industry growth however, and i don't see a thing wrong with that.
On another subject, I think the format is stupid ;/. IPL is doing an open, I'm sure MLG could handle it.
one of the biggest most established snowboard events in the world Air and Style sponsored by brands like RedBull, which ended just yesterday had also 75000 prize money in total.
in esport that's even not a really big one. shows just where we are, in which league we already play.
On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote: if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous.
You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair.
Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats?
Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant.
and you are? a pro gamer? no, i don't think so. You don't understand the frustration when you know a lot of these players from WOL are not going to be as good as the players who have been practicing HOTS very hard, their decision of making of not having an open bracket is stupid, even without an open bracket, have some Online qualifiers would be nice, but instead, they invite people, why hyping it up when you're just going to fking invite people.
MLG doesn't suck, whoever decided on this sucks.
No, I'm not a Pro gamer. Never claimed to be either. I'm a spectator I'm the one buying the passes to all these events. If you're not going to be as good as the other players maybe you should practice more? Like said MANY MANY times before, the invite only qualifiers are for Dallas only due to the game being in beta(Again reading comprehension please). The Beta server is not stable enough for open qualifiers as explained a billion times... So again I ask you to actually read what they are saying before throwing a hissy fit.
are you serious? so it's because "beta server is not stable enough" and "practice more" is suppose to get me into an invitational that's based off of WOL instead of HOTS skills? not as good as other players? where did you get that from? again, you should read my argument carefully, it's Unfair and unprofessional to just hold everyone up for like 2 months and expects a bang when you're just going to announce the entire tournament is invite only instead of some sort of qualifier don't you think?
Never said practicing more would get you an invite, just pointing out that if you feel you're not going to be as good as some of these other guys maybe you should practice more? Do you think Flash and the Kespa guys have been practicing HotS while prepping for pro league and this GSL season? No! Again Invite only is for Dallas because yes the beta server is too unstable to hold open qualifiers.. I've tried reading your argument but you don't seem to have one, all I can gather from it is you being mad because you didn't get an invite.
I'll be angry with them if they stick with the invite only after Dallas yes. but for Dallas it's quite clearly their only option here. They maybe could have given a bit more heads up about it yes. but all in all everything on their part seems extremely reasonable if you'd look at it from their point of view and not be blinded by your own bias.
What is unstable about the beta server? Ive been playing it quite a bit and havent noticed anymore issues than WoL has.... Thats the confusing part to me, About how everyone defends the servers being unstable and I havent noticed anything of the sort that is out of the ordinary. And if the servers are so unstable, why is IPL6 is holding open online qualifiers, and an open bracket in hots? Yet MLG claims its impossible.
But so many other questions go unanswered such as... Is there going to be another Dallas stop this year? since this isnt a "real" mlg event its an exhibition. What are gold memberships good for competitive players? What exactly is unstable about the servers? Why arent some pros even practicing HOTS for this event? As to me its unprofessional to accept an invite you arent even going to spend time practicing for, regardless of whether your flash or some unknown.
Ever thought about having to play HotS from Europe or Korea right now? The only server they're running is located here in the US so what are players from the EU and Korea supposed to do? Yes they can play but they'll have to deal with insane lag (and that's not the player's faults) which could give those who live here in the NA or close to it an advantage so how is that fair? I'm not saying this to try and defend MLG because I also don't like the idea of not having an open bracket but you have to consider both sides here and understand that no matter what MLG decided to do it wouldn't be entirely fair for some players.
Regardless I don't get why some people are freaking out over this. It's 1 event you can't play while IPL 6 has actually decided to run an open bracket so you're not really missing out on anything
They should just hold 3 regional qualifiers. Then EU players with lag play other EU players with lag etc. Then it would be entirely fair to everyone and the absence of an open bracket would be no big deal since they basically happened online. So the unstable server point still doesn't make sense to me, but this MLG will still be great for the viewers and I'm sure it will be fair to the players in the future.
I'm fine with MLG protecting established pro's for a single tournament. Fact is that the people that are currently playing lots of HotS are the people that gave up on winning anything in WoL ages ago, and I really don't see the need to indulge them. HotS isn't a clean slate or the creation of a new scene, and the players/teams currently at the top got WoL where it is now and they'll do the same for HotS.
I'm looking forward to seeing players I know represent the top of the WoL scene trying out their first real HotS tournament, instead of seeing a bunch of unknown ladder warriors try to get a random tournament win and then completely disappear.
On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote: if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous.
You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair.
Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats?
Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant.
and you are? a pro gamer? no, i don't think so. You don't understand the frustration when you know a lot of these players from WOL are not going to be as good as the players who have been practicing HOTS very hard, their decision of making of not having an open bracket is stupid, even without an open bracket, have some Online qualifiers would be nice, but instead, they invite people, why hyping it up when you're just going to fking invite people.
MLG doesn't suck, whoever decided on this sucks.
No, I'm not a Pro gamer. Never claimed to be either. I'm a spectator I'm the one buying the passes to all these events. If you're not going to be as good as the other players maybe you should practice more? Like said MANY MANY times before, the invite only qualifiers are for Dallas only due to the game being in beta(Again reading comprehension please). The Beta server is not stable enough for open qualifiers as explained a billion times... So again I ask you to actually read what they are saying before throwing a hissy fit.
are you serious? so it's because "beta server is not stable enough" and "practice more" is suppose to get me into an invitational that's based off of WOL instead of HOTS skills? not as good as other players? where did you get that from? again, you should read my argument carefully, it's Unfair and unprofessional to just hold everyone up for like 2 months and expects a bang when you're just going to announce the entire tournament is invite only instead of some sort of qualifier don't you think?
Never said practicing more would get you an invite, just pointing out that if you feel you're not going to be as good as some of these other guys maybe you should practice more? Do you think Flash and the Kespa guys have been practicing HotS while prepping for pro league and this GSL season? No! Again Invite only is for Dallas because yes the beta server is too unstable to hold open qualifiers.. I've tried reading your argument but you don't seem to have one, all I can gather from it is you being mad because you didn't get an invite.
I'll be angry with them if they stick with the invite only after Dallas yes. but for Dallas it's quite clearly their only option here. They maybe could have given a bit more heads up about it yes. but all in all everything on their part seems extremely reasonable if you'd look at it from their point of view and not be blinded by your own bias.
What is unstable about the beta server? Ive been playing it quite a bit and havent noticed anymore issues than WoL has.... Thats the confusing part to me, About how everyone defends the servers being unstable and I havent noticed anything of the sort that is out of the ordinary. And if the servers are so unstable, why is IPL6 is holding open online qualifiers, and an open bracket in hots? Yet MLG claims its impossible.
But so many other questions go unanswered such as... Is there going to be another Dallas stop this year? since this isnt a "real" mlg event its an exhibition. What are gold memberships good for competitive players? What exactly is unstable about the servers? Why arent some pros even practicing HOTS for this event? As to me its unprofessional to accept an invite you arent even going to spend time practicing for, regardless of whether your flash or some unknown.
Ever thought about having to play HotS from Europe or Korea right now? The only server they're running is located here in the US so what are players from the EU and Korea supposed to do? Yes they can play but they'll have to deal with insane lag (and that's not the player's faults) which could give those who live here in the NA or close to it an advantage so how is that fair? I'm not saying this to try and defend MLG because I also don't like the idea of not having an open bracket but you have to consider both sides here and understand that no matter what MLG decided to do it wouldn't be entirely fair for some players.
Regardless I don't get why some people are freaking out over this. It's 1 event you can't play while IPL 6 has actually decided to run an open bracket so you're not really missing out on anything
Well in my opinion it wouldn't be a huge travesty if the non-NA pros had to practice on a laggy server. Ideally, it would be great if everyone could practice lag-free. But I believe the trade-off in this case just isn't worth it (not having the open qualification AT ALL because some people might lag in practice). There are tournaments happening in many parts of the world... NA tournaments will naturally favor American players because of the shorter travel distance and lack of jetlag. Just as Korean tournaments are known for being extremely favorable to Koreans (or at least those living in Korea) because of the inclusive qualification process and long-term commitment needed to play through the tournament in one location. I think the issue that you're bringing up is-- can every tournament be equally accessible for every player? And in my opinion, I don't think that is or even should be the case. Tournament diversity will give people a wider spectrum of players and scenes to follow and is more efficient at bringing up-and-coming talent into the limelight.
You can't compare having 1 person play with lag while the other doesn't to the other situations you listed. Korean tournaments favor Koreans because they're just better players, they're not receiving an unfair advantage because they put more time into the game. Now in regards to the lag situation, it would still be a bit of a problem. Yeah some players may not mind it as much as others but when you're actually competing for a spot in a tournament with $75,000 in prize money, you shouldn't be forced to play in those circumstances. I'm not sure the exact reasoning behind why there isn't an open bracket for Dallas but it would definitely make sense if this was one of the issues they took into consideration.
On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote: if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous.
You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair.
Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats?
Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant.
and you are? a pro gamer? no, i don't think so. You don't understand the frustration when you know a lot of these players from WOL are not going to be as good as the players who have been practicing HOTS very hard, their decision of making of not having an open bracket is stupid, even without an open bracket, have some Online qualifiers would be nice, but instead, they invite people, why hyping it up when you're just going to fking invite people.
MLG doesn't suck, whoever decided on this sucks.
No, I'm not a Pro gamer. Never claimed to be either. I'm a spectator I'm the one buying the passes to all these events. If you're not going to be as good as the other players maybe you should practice more? Like said MANY MANY times before, the invite only qualifiers are for Dallas only due to the game being in beta(Again reading comprehension please). The Beta server is not stable enough for open qualifiers as explained a billion times... So again I ask you to actually read what they are saying before throwing a hissy fit.
are you serious? so it's because "beta server is not stable enough" and "practice more" is suppose to get me into an invitational that's based off of WOL instead of HOTS skills? not as good as other players? where did you get that from? again, you should read my argument carefully, it's Unfair and unprofessional to just hold everyone up for like 2 months and expects a bang when you're just going to announce the entire tournament is invite only instead of some sort of qualifier don't you think?
Never said practicing more would get you an invite, just pointing out that if you feel you're not going to be as good as some of these other guys maybe you should practice more? Do you think Flash and the Kespa guys have been practicing HotS while prepping for pro league and this GSL season? No! Again Invite only is for Dallas because yes the beta server is too unstable to hold open qualifiers.. I've tried reading your argument but you don't seem to have one, all I can gather from it is you being mad because you didn't get an invite.
I'll be angry with them if they stick with the invite only after Dallas yes. but for Dallas it's quite clearly their only option here. They maybe could have given a bit more heads up about it yes. but all in all everything on their part seems extremely reasonable if you'd look at it from their point of view and not be blinded by your own bias.
What is unstable about the beta server? Ive been playing it quite a bit and havent noticed anymore issues than WoL has.... Thats the confusing part to me, About how everyone defends the servers being unstable and I havent noticed anything of the sort that is out of the ordinary. And if the servers are so unstable, why is IPL6 is holding open online qualifiers, and an open bracket in hots? Yet MLG claims its impossible.
But so many other questions go unanswered such as... Is there going to be another Dallas stop this year? since this isnt a "real" mlg event its an exhibition. What are gold memberships good for competitive players? What exactly is unstable about the servers? Why arent some pros even practicing HOTS for this event? As to me its unprofessional to accept an invite you arent even going to spend time practicing for, regardless of whether your flash or some unknown.
Ever thought about having to play HotS from Europe or Korea right now? The only server they're running is located here in the US so what are players from the EU and Korea supposed to do? Yes they can play but they'll have to deal with insane lag (and that's not the player's faults) which could give those who live here in the NA or close to it an advantage so how is that fair? I'm not saying this to try and defend MLG because I also don't like the idea of not having an open bracket but you have to consider both sides here and understand that no matter what MLG decided to do it wouldn't be entirely fair for some players.
Regardless I don't get why some people are freaking out over this. It's 1 event you can't play while IPL 6 has actually decided to run an open bracket so you're not really missing out on anything
Well in my opinion it wouldn't be a huge travesty if the non-NA pros had to practice on a laggy server. Ideally, it would be great if everyone could practice lag-free. But I believe the trade-off in this case just isn't worth it (not having the open qualification AT ALL because some people might lag in practice). There are tournaments happening in many parts of the world... NA tournaments will naturally favor American players because of the shorter travel distance and lack of jetlag. Just as Korean tournaments are known for being extremely favorable to Koreans (or at least those living in Korea) because of the inclusive qualification process and long-term commitment needed to play through the tournament in one location. I think the issue that you're bringing up is-- can every tournament be equally accessible for every player? And in my opinion, I don't think that is or even should be the case. Tournament diversity will give people a wider spectrum of players and scenes to follow and is more efficient at bringing up-and-coming talent into the limelight.
You can't compare having 1 person play with lag while the other doesn't to the other situations you listed. Korean tournaments favor Koreans because they're just better players, they're not receiving an unfair advantage because they put more time into the game. Now in regards to the lag situation, it would still be a bit of a problem. Yeah some players may not mind it as much as others but when you're actually competing for a spot in a tournament with $75,000 in prize money, you shouldn't be forced to play in those circumstances. I'm not sure the exact reasoning behind why there isn't an open bracket for Dallas but it would definitely make sense if this was one of the issues they took into consideration.
I don't think the players would mind though. It's a shot for a payed trip to another continent where they can compete for good money. A disadvantage vs not getting a chance at all.
On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote: if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous.
You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair.
Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats?
Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant.
and you are? a pro gamer? no, i don't think so. You don't understand the frustration when you know a lot of these players from WOL are not going to be as good as the players who have been practicing HOTS very hard, their decision of making of not having an open bracket is stupid, even without an open bracket, have some Online qualifiers would be nice, but instead, they invite people, why hyping it up when you're just going to fking invite people.
MLG doesn't suck, whoever decided on this sucks.
No, I'm not a Pro gamer. Never claimed to be either. I'm a spectator I'm the one buying the passes to all these events. If you're not going to be as good as the other players maybe you should practice more? Like said MANY MANY times before, the invite only qualifiers are for Dallas only due to the game being in beta(Again reading comprehension please). The Beta server is not stable enough for open qualifiers as explained a billion times... So again I ask you to actually read what they are saying before throwing a hissy fit.
are you serious? so it's because "beta server is not stable enough" and "practice more" is suppose to get me into an invitational that's based off of WOL instead of HOTS skills? not as good as other players? where did you get that from? again, you should read my argument carefully, it's Unfair and unprofessional to just hold everyone up for like 2 months and expects a bang when you're just going to announce the entire tournament is invite only instead of some sort of qualifier don't you think?
Never said practicing more would get you an invite, just pointing out that if you feel you're not going to be as good as some of these other guys maybe you should practice more? Do you think Flash and the Kespa guys have been practicing HotS while prepping for pro league and this GSL season? No! Again Invite only is for Dallas because yes the beta server is too unstable to hold open qualifiers.. I've tried reading your argument but you don't seem to have one, all I can gather from it is you being mad because you didn't get an invite.
I'll be angry with them if they stick with the invite only after Dallas yes. but for Dallas it's quite clearly their only option here. They maybe could have given a bit more heads up about it yes. but all in all everything on their part seems extremely reasonable if you'd look at it from their point of view and not be blinded by your own bias.
What is unstable about the beta server? Ive been playing it quite a bit and havent noticed anymore issues than WoL has.... Thats the confusing part to me, About how everyone defends the servers being unstable and I havent noticed anything of the sort that is out of the ordinary. And if the servers are so unstable, why is IPL6 is holding open online qualifiers, and an open bracket in hots? Yet MLG claims its impossible.
But so many other questions go unanswered such as... Is there going to be another Dallas stop this year? since this isnt a "real" mlg event its an exhibition. What are gold memberships good for competitive players? What exactly is unstable about the servers? Why arent some pros even practicing HOTS for this event? As to me its unprofessional to accept an invite you arent even going to spend time practicing for, regardless of whether your flash or some unknown.
Ever thought about having to play HotS from Europe or Korea right now? The only server they're running is located here in the US so what are players from the EU and Korea supposed to do? Yes they can play but they'll have to deal with insane lag (and that's not the player's faults) which could give those who live here in the NA or close to it an advantage so how is that fair? I'm not saying this to try and defend MLG because I also don't like the idea of not having an open bracket but you have to consider both sides here and understand that no matter what MLG decided to do it wouldn't be entirely fair for some players.
Regardless I don't get why some people are freaking out over this. It's 1 event you can't play while IPL 6 has actually decided to run an open bracket so you're not really missing out on anything
Well in my opinion it wouldn't be a huge travesty if the non-NA pros had to practice on a laggy server. Ideally, it would be great if everyone could practice lag-free. But I believe the trade-off in this case just isn't worth it (not having the open qualification AT ALL because some people might lag in practice). There are tournaments happening in many parts of the world... NA tournaments will naturally favor American players because of the shorter travel distance and lack of jetlag. Just as Korean tournaments are known for being extremely favorable to Koreans (or at least those living in Korea) because of the inclusive qualification process and long-term commitment needed to play through the tournament in one location. I think the issue that you're bringing up is-- can every tournament be equally accessible for every player? And in my opinion, I don't think that is or even should be the case. Tournament diversity will give people a wider spectrum of players and scenes to follow and is more efficient at bringing up-and-coming talent into the limelight.
You can't compare having 1 person play with lag while the other doesn't to the other situations you listed. Korean tournaments favor Koreans because they're just better players, they're not receiving an unfair advantage because they put more time into the game. Now in regards to the lag situation, it would still be a bit of a problem. Yeah some players may not mind it as much as others but when you're actually competing for a spot in a tournament with $75,000 in prize money, you shouldn't be forced to play in those circumstances. I'm not sure the exact reasoning behind why there isn't an open bracket for Dallas but it would definitely make sense if this was one of the issues they took into consideration.
You're missing the point, because nobody is "forced" to play in an open tournament in the first place. A fair tournament ought to be one that has clear rules but that doesn't mean that it should be equally accessible to every single sc2 player. Of course a good tournament will try to minimize this (paying for airfare, having qualifiers on every server, etc) but in this case I think it's not a big deal if the open qualifiers for the MLG hots event take place on the Beta server. Will it favor NA players? Maybe, but I don't see why that should stop the top Korean or EU players from coming to NA early so they can play with no latency. My point is that it's the responsibility of the teams/players to provide for the ideal conditions so that they can succeed, not of MLG to cancel the whole open bracket just because some players who can't afford to fly to NA early might be getting the short end of the stick.
On February 09 2013 07:13 grindC wrote: How will MLG finish the qualifiers until March 8th, if HotS goes offline on March 1st? Did MLG say anything about that?
I still think an open online touranment for the last 1/2 bracket spots would've been a great idea and way to get an additional storyline in, not to mention get a decent bit of people to participate in an MLG sponsorsed event that otherwise might not ever get the chance to due to them either never being able to go to a live event due to transportation, lack of confidence, etc. I think it would have been a nice goodwill gesture, then we'd be taking about who the favorite is to get through the online event as opposed to bemoaning the fact that there isn't one. It would be relatively simple to run, heck, maybe even TL could run it like a TSL qualifier and there would be no extra work for you guys, TL gets some hype from people hearing about how you can enter for a chance to play at MLG by joining this "teamliquid" site that MLG would advertise, and everybody gets a little something out of it. The fans, MLG (pre tournament extra hype with no additional effort), and TL, (advertising of the site from MLG). It's just a thought.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sQgMRGY.png)
Life, 
Flash, 
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aHoRhCq.png)
Jjakji... Wins a GSL Championship a year ago, falls to Code A the next season, stays in Code A for 2 more seasons, falls out of the GSL, requalifies, falls out of the GSL again, and doesn't win a single game in the Code A Preliminaries this season... Also he's never attended a MLG IIRC... Only foreign event he's been to is IPL4... Unless you count the online portion of Iron Squid 1...
soO, the MvP Invitational Champion...
