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I'm fine with MLG protecting established pro's for a single tournament. Fact is that the people that are currently playing lots of HotS are the people that gave up on winning anything in WoL ages ago, and I really don't see the need to indulge them. HotS isn't a clean slate or the creation of a new scene, and the players/teams currently at the top got WoL where it is now and they'll do the same for HotS.
I'm looking forward to seeing players I know represent the top of the WoL scene trying out their first real HotS tournament, instead of seeing a bunch of unknown ladder warriors try to get a random tournament win and then completely disappear.
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On February 03 2013 11:45 Erik.TheRed wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 09:08 LuNa. wrote:On February 03 2013 05:07 KiF1rE wrote:On February 03 2013 02:10 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On February 03 2013 02:05 hellokittySC2 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 03 2013 02:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 01:58 hellokittySC2 wrote:On February 03 2013 01:55 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote:
if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous. You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair. Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats? Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant. and you are? a pro gamer? no, i don't think so. You don't understand the frustration when you know a lot of these players from WOL are not going to be as good as the players who have been practicing HOTS very hard, their decision of making of not having an open bracket is stupid, even without an open bracket, have some Online qualifiers would be nice, but instead, they invite people, why hyping it up when you're just going to fking invite people. MLG doesn't suck, whoever decided on this sucks. No, I'm not a Pro gamer. Never claimed to be either. I'm a spectator I'm the one buying the passes to all these events. If you're not going to be as good as the other players maybe you should practice more? Like said MANY MANY times before, the invite only qualifiers are for Dallas only due to the game being in beta(Again reading comprehension please). The Beta server is not stable enough for open qualifiers as explained a billion times... So again I ask you to actually read what they are saying before throwing a hissy fit. are you serious? so it's because "beta server is not stable enough" and "practice more" is suppose to get me into an invitational that's based off of WOL instead of HOTS skills? not as good as other players? where did you get that from? again, you should read my argument carefully, it's Unfair and unprofessional to just hold everyone up for like 2 months and expects a bang when you're just going to announce the entire tournament is invite only instead of some sort of qualifier don't you think? Never said practicing more would get you an invite, just pointing out that if you feel you're not going to be as good as some of these other guys maybe you should practice more? Do you think Flash and the Kespa guys have been practicing HotS while prepping for pro league and this GSL season? No! Again Invite only is for Dallas because yes the beta server is too unstable to hold open qualifiers.. I've tried reading your argument but you don't seem to have one, all I can gather from it is you being mad because you didn't get an invite. I'll be angry with them if they stick with the invite only after Dallas yes. but for Dallas it's quite clearly their only option here. They maybe could have given a bit more heads up about it yes. but all in all everything on their part seems extremely reasonable if you'd look at it from their point of view and not be blinded by your own bias. What is unstable about the beta server? Ive been playing it quite a bit and havent noticed anymore issues than WoL has.... Thats the confusing part to me, About how everyone defends the servers being unstable and I havent noticed anything of the sort that is out of the ordinary. And if the servers are so unstable, why is IPL6 is holding open online qualifiers, and an open bracket in hots? Yet MLG claims its impossible. But so many other questions go unanswered such as... Is there going to be another Dallas stop this year? since this isnt a "real" mlg event its an exhibition. What are gold memberships good for competitive players? What exactly is unstable about the servers? Why arent some pros even practicing HOTS for this event? As to me its unprofessional to accept an invite you arent even going to spend time practicing for, regardless of whether your flash or some unknown. Ever thought about having to play HotS from Europe or Korea right now? The only server they're running is located here in the US so what are players from the EU and Korea supposed to do? Yes they can play but they'll have to deal with insane lag (and that's not the player's faults) which could give those who live here in the NA or close to it an advantage so how is that fair? I'm not saying this to try and defend MLG because I also don't like the idea of not having an open bracket but you have to consider both sides here and understand that no matter what MLG decided to do it wouldn't be entirely fair for some players. Regardless I don't get why some people are freaking out over this. It's 1 event you can't play while IPL 6 has actually decided to run an open bracket so you're not really missing out on anything Well in my opinion it wouldn't be a huge travesty if the non-NA pros had to practice on a laggy server. Ideally, it would be great if everyone could practice lag-free. But I believe the trade-off in this case just isn't worth it (not having the open qualification AT ALL because some people might lag in practice). There are tournaments happening in many parts of the world... NA tournaments will naturally favor American players because of the shorter travel distance and lack of jetlag. Just as Korean tournaments are known for being extremely favorable to Koreans (or at least those living in Korea) because of the inclusive qualification process and long-term commitment needed to play through the tournament in one location. I think the issue that you're bringing up is-- can every tournament be equally accessible for every player? And in my opinion, I don't think that is or even should be the case. Tournament diversity will give people a wider spectrum of players and scenes to follow and is more efficient at bringing up-and-coming talent into the limelight.
You can't compare having 1 person play with lag while the other doesn't to the other situations you listed. Korean tournaments favor Koreans because they're just better players, they're not receiving an unfair advantage because they put more time into the game. Now in regards to the lag situation, it would still be a bit of a problem. Yeah some players may not mind it as much as others but when you're actually competing for a spot in a tournament with $75,000 in prize money, you shouldn't be forced to play in those circumstances. I'm not sure the exact reasoning behind why there isn't an open bracket for Dallas but it would definitely make sense if this was one of the issues they took into consideration.
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On February 04 2013 02:31 LuNa. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 11:45 Erik.TheRed wrote:On February 03 2013 09:08 LuNa. wrote:On February 03 2013 05:07 KiF1rE wrote:On February 03 2013 02:10 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On February 03 2013 02:05 hellokittySC2 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 03 2013 02:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 01:58 hellokittySC2 wrote:On February 03 2013 01:55 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote:
if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous. You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair. Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats? Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant. and you are? a pro gamer? no, i don't think so. You don't understand the frustration when you know a lot of these players from WOL are not going to be as good as the players who have been practicing HOTS very hard, their decision of making of not having an open bracket is stupid, even without an open bracket, have some Online qualifiers would be nice, but instead, they invite people, why hyping it up when you're just going to fking invite people. MLG doesn't suck, whoever decided on this sucks. No, I'm not a Pro gamer. Never claimed to be either. I'm a spectator I'm the one buying the passes to all these events. If you're not going to be as good as the other players maybe you should practice more? Like said MANY MANY times before, the invite only qualifiers are for Dallas only due to the game being in beta(Again reading comprehension please). The Beta server is not stable enough for open qualifiers as explained a billion times... So again I ask you to actually read what they are saying before throwing a hissy fit. are you serious? so it's because "beta server is not stable enough" and "practice more" is suppose to get me into an invitational that's based off of WOL instead of HOTS skills? not as good as other players? where did you get that from? again, you should read my argument carefully, it's Unfair and unprofessional to just hold everyone up for like 2 months and expects a bang when you're just going to announce the entire tournament is invite only instead of some sort of qualifier don't you think? Never said practicing more would get you an invite, just pointing out that if you feel you're not going to be as good as some of these other guys maybe you should practice more? Do you think Flash and the Kespa guys have been practicing HotS while prepping for pro league and this GSL season? No! Again Invite only is for Dallas because yes the beta server is too unstable to hold open qualifiers.. I've tried reading your argument but you don't seem to have one, all I can gather from it is you being mad because you didn't get an invite. I'll be angry with them if they stick with the invite only after Dallas yes. but for Dallas it's quite clearly their only option here. They maybe could have given a bit more heads up about it yes. but all in all everything on their part seems extremely reasonable if you'd look at it from their point of view and not be blinded by your own bias. What is unstable about the beta server? Ive been playing it quite a bit and havent noticed anymore issues than WoL has.... Thats the confusing part to me, About how everyone defends the servers being unstable and I havent noticed anything of the sort that is out of the ordinary. And if the servers are so unstable, why is IPL6 is holding open online qualifiers, and an open bracket in hots? Yet MLG claims its impossible. But so many other questions go unanswered such as... Is there going to be another Dallas stop this year? since this isnt a "real" mlg event its an exhibition. What are gold memberships good for competitive players? What exactly is unstable about the servers? Why arent some pros even practicing HOTS for this event? As to me its unprofessional to accept an invite you arent even going to spend time practicing for, regardless of whether your flash or some unknown. Ever thought about having to play HotS from Europe or Korea right now? The only server they're running is located here in the US so what are players from the EU and Korea supposed to do? Yes they can play but they'll have to deal with insane lag (and that's not the player's faults) which could give those who live here in the NA or close to it an advantage so how is that fair? I'm not saying this to try and defend MLG because I also don't like the idea of not having an open bracket but you have to consider both sides here and understand that no matter what MLG decided to do it wouldn't be entirely fair for some players. Regardless I don't get why some people are freaking out over this. It's 1 event you can't play while IPL 6 has actually decided to run an open bracket so you're not really missing out on anything Well in my opinion it wouldn't be a huge travesty if the non-NA pros had to practice on a laggy server. Ideally, it would be great if everyone could practice lag-free. But I believe the trade-off in this case just isn't worth it (not having the open qualification AT ALL because some people might lag in practice). There are tournaments happening in many parts of the world... NA tournaments will naturally favor American players because of the shorter travel distance and lack of jetlag. Just as Korean tournaments are known for being extremely favorable to Koreans (or at least those living in Korea) because of the inclusive qualification process and long-term commitment needed to play through the tournament in one location. I think the issue that you're bringing up is-- can every tournament be equally accessible for every player? And in my opinion, I don't think that is or even should be the case. Tournament diversity will give people a wider spectrum of players and scenes to follow and is more efficient at bringing up-and-coming talent into the limelight. You can't compare having 1 person play with lag while the other doesn't to the other situations you listed. Korean tournaments favor Koreans because they're just better players, they're not receiving an unfair advantage because they put more time into the game. Now in regards to the lag situation, it would still be a bit of a problem. Yeah some players may not mind it as much as others but when you're actually competing for a spot in a tournament with $75,000 in prize money, you shouldn't be forced to play in those circumstances. I'm not sure the exact reasoning behind why there isn't an open bracket for Dallas but it would definitely make sense if this was one of the issues they took into consideration.
I don't think the players would mind though. It's a shot for a payed trip to another continent where they can compete for good money. A disadvantage vs not getting a chance at all.
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On February 04 2013 02:31 LuNa. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 11:45 Erik.TheRed wrote:On February 03 2013 09:08 LuNa. wrote:On February 03 2013 05:07 KiF1rE wrote:On February 03 2013 02:10 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On February 03 2013 02:05 hellokittySC2 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 03 2013 02:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 01:58 hellokittySC2 wrote:On February 03 2013 01:55 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On February 02 2013 21:52 hellokittySC2 wrote:
if this is the way you guys want to run things then fine, don't expect too much support from me in the future for mlg, in fact, i will most likely not attend MLG dallas this time around just because of this unfairness bias towards players who are "less" deserving than you guys. even though I live 3 hours away from dallas, I will not support this bull crap. I'm not whining just because i didn't get an invite, i'm shouting out for the other players who did not get an invite, this is completely bull crap. hope you guys have a better policy next time regarding to fairness of competition, this is outrageous. You are whining and this is not outrageous or bullcrap at all... They've clearly stated that this invite format is only for Dallas due to HotS being in beta. So maybe stop being a baby and actually read what they are saying before condemning it as unfair. Seriously this bandwagon hate is kind of retarded... People aren't even reading what's actually happening here and are just screaming "OMG No OPEN BRACKET, INVITE ONLY MLG SUCKS" Learn to god damn read and people need to stop spreading useless, baseless, pathetic drama bullshit. When did this community turn into such spoiled little brats? Note. This is not just directed at you, just seen enough of this pointless crying in this thread and had to rant. and you are? a pro gamer? no, i don't think so. You don't understand the frustration when you know a lot of these players from WOL are not going to be as good as the players who have been practicing HOTS very hard, their decision of making of not having an open bracket is stupid, even without an open bracket, have some Online qualifiers would be nice, but instead, they invite people, why hyping it up when you're just going to fking invite people. MLG doesn't suck, whoever decided on this sucks. No, I'm not a Pro gamer. Never claimed to be either. I'm a spectator I'm the one buying the passes to all these events. If you're not going to be as good as the other players maybe you should practice more? Like said MANY MANY times before, the invite only qualifiers are for Dallas only due to the game being in beta(Again reading comprehension please). The Beta server is not stable enough for open qualifiers as explained a billion times... So again I ask you to actually read what they are saying before throwing a hissy fit. are you serious? so it's because "beta server is not stable enough" and "practice more" is suppose to get me into an invitational that's based off of WOL instead of HOTS skills? not as good as other players? where did you get that from? again, you should read my argument carefully, it's Unfair and unprofessional to just hold everyone up for like 2 months and expects a bang when you're just going to announce the entire tournament is invite only instead of some sort of qualifier don't you think? Never said practicing more would get you an invite, just pointing out that if you feel you're not going to be as good as some of these other guys maybe you should practice more? Do you think Flash and the Kespa guys have been practicing HotS while prepping for pro league and this GSL season? No! Again Invite only is for Dallas because yes the beta server is too unstable to hold open qualifiers.. I've tried reading your argument but you don't seem to have one, all I can gather from it is you being mad because you didn't get an invite. I'll be angry with them if they stick with the invite only after Dallas yes. but for Dallas it's quite clearly their only option here. They maybe could have given a bit more heads up about it yes. but all in all everything on their part seems extremely reasonable if you'd look at it from their point of view and not be blinded by your own bias. What is unstable about the beta server? Ive been playing it quite a bit and havent noticed anymore issues than WoL has.... Thats the confusing part to me, About how everyone defends the servers being unstable and I havent noticed anything of the sort that is out of the ordinary. And if the servers are so unstable, why is IPL6 is holding open online qualifiers, and an open bracket in hots? Yet MLG claims its impossible. But so many other questions go unanswered such as... Is there going to be another Dallas stop this year? since this isnt a "real" mlg event its an exhibition. What are gold memberships good for competitive players? What exactly is unstable about the servers? Why arent some pros even practicing HOTS for this event? As to me its unprofessional to accept an invite you arent even going to spend time practicing for, regardless of whether your flash or some unknown. Ever thought about having to play HotS from Europe or Korea right now? The only server they're running is located here in the US so what are players from the EU and Korea supposed to do? Yes they can play but they'll have to deal with insane lag (and that's not the player's faults) which could give those who live here in the NA or close to it an advantage so how is that fair? I'm not saying this to try and defend MLG because I also don't like the idea of not having an open bracket but you have to consider both sides here and understand that no matter what MLG decided to do it wouldn't be entirely fair for some players. Regardless I don't get why some people are freaking out over this. It's 1 event you can't play while IPL 6 has actually decided to run an open bracket so you're not really missing out on anything Well in my opinion it wouldn't be a huge travesty if the non-NA pros had to practice on a laggy server. Ideally, it would be great if everyone could practice lag-free. But I believe the trade-off in this case just isn't worth it (not having the open qualification AT ALL because some people might lag in practice). There are tournaments happening in many parts of the world... NA tournaments will naturally favor American players because of the shorter travel distance and lack of jetlag. Just as Korean tournaments are known for being extremely favorable to Koreans (or at least those living in Korea) because of the inclusive qualification process and long-term commitment needed to play through the tournament in one location. I think the issue that you're bringing up is-- can every tournament be equally accessible for every player? And in my opinion, I don't think that is or even should be the case. Tournament diversity will give people a wider spectrum of players and scenes to follow and is more efficient at bringing up-and-coming talent into the limelight. You can't compare having 1 person play with lag while the other doesn't to the other situations you listed. Korean tournaments favor Koreans because they're just better players, they're not receiving an unfair advantage because they put more time into the game. Now in regards to the lag situation, it would still be a bit of a problem. Yeah some players may not mind it as much as others but when you're actually competing for a spot in a tournament with $75,000 in prize money, you shouldn't be forced to play in those circumstances. I'm not sure the exact reasoning behind why there isn't an open bracket for Dallas but it would definitely make sense if this was one of the issues they took into consideration.
You're missing the point, because nobody is "forced" to play in an open tournament in the first place. A fair tournament ought to be one that has clear rules but that doesn't mean that it should be equally accessible to every single sc2 player. Of course a good tournament will try to minimize this (paying for airfare, having qualifiers on every server, etc) but in this case I think it's not a big deal if the open qualifiers for the MLG hots event take place on the Beta server. Will it favor NA players? Maybe, but I don't see why that should stop the top Korean or EU players from coming to NA early so they can play with no latency. My point is that it's the responsibility of the teams/players to provide for the ideal conditions so that they can succeed, not of MLG to cancel the whole open bracket just because some players who can't afford to fly to NA early might be getting the short end of the stick.
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Sucks that the scene is turning away from open tournaments even moreso with HotS. I don't see this turning out well for SC2 in general.
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How will MLG finish the qualifiers until March 8th, if HotS goes offline on March 1st? Did MLG say anything about that?
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On February 09 2013 07:13 grindC wrote:
How will MLG finish the qualifiers until March 8th, if HotS goes offline on March 1st? Did MLG say anything about that?
Games are played a week or more before streams.
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I still think an open online touranment for the last 1/2 bracket spots would've been a great idea and way to get an additional storyline in, not to mention get a decent bit of people to participate in an MLG sponsorsed event that otherwise might not ever get the chance to due to them either never being able to go to a live event due to transportation, lack of confidence, etc. I think it would have been a nice goodwill gesture, then we'd be taking about who the favorite is to get through the online event as opposed to bemoaning the fact that there isn't one. It would be relatively simple to run, heck, maybe even TL could run it like a TSL qualifier and there would be no extra work for you guys, TL gets some hype from people hearing about how you can enter for a chance to play at MLG by joining this "teamliquid" site that MLG would advertise, and everybody gets a little something out of it. The fans, MLG (pre tournament extra hype with no additional effort), and TL, (advertising of the site from MLG). It's just a thought.
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EPT
