I really don't understand this logic. If you were to play f.e. PartinG as zerg (and let's assume you know he wont do the WonWonWon). Do you think your chances are higher with a 6pool or going into the lategame?

A cheeser is only following a build order (There is no skill in placing a pool at 6, 7, 8 or 9...), the skill comes in play when the cheese "arrves" where you have the ability to micro and since a cheese is DESIGNED to give you a huge advantage in the early game, you don't need to trade AS efficient as the defender.

Hence, a cheese is nowhere near an example of skill and will only get you free wins, not improve your game.

HOWEVER I think it's a very valid part of the game. I'm really tired of seeing everyone rushing to 3 bases and nothing happens for the first 15 minutes. It feels like Blizzard aswell could let us start on 2bases, that's how boring the current meta game is. So in that way, cheeses are great to keep players straight and not 15cc every game.

But as for people cheesing on the ladder, they're only focused on getting those extra points on the ladder - not improve.

TimedOut

27 Posts

January 31 2013 10:17 GMT

#102

The reason why macro game seems "legit" and cheese seems not is simple.

A player able to play a macro game will always be able to play cheesy (with a tiny bit of practice).
Whereas an only cheese player will never be able to sustain any kind of past 7 mintues game.

As exemple i can take Gaulzi, the canon rush king. Yes his style is fun, and i enjoy watching his stream sometimes, but everysingle game his cheese fail and the game goes to macro you can see how horrible his mechanics are. It's like watching a platinum. He just try to make a 200/200 protoss A move ball (i.e colossus, archon zealot) and win with that. And more often than not he got raped....
And that guy is higher master/GM master MMR with only canon rushing.

Another exemple, a dude i met got to master for 1 season only bane busting in every single mu. As soon as he got to master he got stomped over and over. He could beat high dia low master, but even mid master could handle his more than well trained banebust skills...

So in the end, cheesing everysingle game is not the way you wanna play cause it doesnt make you any better. You'll grab win against bad/half bad player and that's it. You'll always loose more than you win.

I could hold a 7 roach rush with 1 rax 3cc.... You can try whatever you like, i'll still able to hold it.

So all those topic trying to legitimate cheese over macro... no rlly.

Every player should know some cheese build, but should not rely on them.
And the reason pro dont cheese is because they're rlly good at handling them. Just watch korean players hold anything with 1 bunker and 3 rines..

zoid

Sweden36 Posts

January 31 2013 10:22 GMT

#103

I like cannon timing attacks

WhalesFromSpace

390 Posts

January 31 2013 10:33 GMT

#104

*Post content deleted at request of friend*

schimmetje

Netherlands1104 Posts

January 31 2013 10:42 GMT

#105

It's always weird to me how certain topics on TL are cyclical. I'm sure I've read this one many times.

All your points are valid and all that, but 90% of the ladder (at least) still does it because it's easy.

GorGor

78 Posts

January 31 2013 18:05 GMT

#106

On January 31 2013 19:06 WhalesFromSpace wrote:

Show nested quote +

I agree with PanzerElite, here is why (from your other thread):
I don't understand why anyone would play like this (cheesing every ladder game): How are you ever going to win a best of 3? I guess you are keeping people honest about scouting for a one base attack, but do binary win conditions really facilitate internal psychological distortion to the point where you feel anything rewarding from these victories? Is this why you are so eager to discuss such a topic; insecurity? People in master league will usually scout and stop this play easily unless they also got there through similar coin-flip style. By playing this way you are essentially committed to an eternal role of servitude in which you condition and refine the play of those making efforts to establish a dynamic/expansive strategy.

When you say "dynamic/expansive strategy" what I hear is "an A-moving deathball in the middle of the map at 12-15 minutes every single game." How is that dynamic? How is a 10 minute 2 medivac push or 15 minute deathball every game dynamic? How is turtling to hive tech every single game dynamic? If you are a fan of dynamic strategy then you should realize how refreshing early aggression is in the face of the obelisk of the current meta.

GorGor

78 Posts

January 31 2013 18:15 GMT

#107

On January 31 2013 19:17 TimedOut wrote:
The reason why macro game seems "legit" and cheese seems not is simple.

A player able to play a macro game will always be able to play cheesy (with a tiny bit of practice).
Whereas an only cheese player will never be able to sustain any kind of past 7 mintues game.

As exemple i can take Gaulzi, the canon rush king. Yes his style is fun, and i enjoy watching his stream sometimes, but everysingle game his cheese fail and the game goes to macro you can see how horrible his mechanics are. It's like watching a platinum. He just try to make a 200/200 protoss A move ball (i.e colossus, archon zealot) and win with that. And more often than not he got raped....
And that guy is higher master/GM master MMR with only canon rushing.

Another exemple, a dude i met got to master for 1 season only bane busting in every single mu. As soon as he got to master he got stomped over and over. He could beat high dia low master, but even mid master could handle his more than well trained banebust skills...

So in the end, cheesing everysingle game is not the way you wanna play cause it doesnt make you any better. You'll grab win against bad/half bad player and that's it. You'll always loose more than you win.

I could hold a 7 roach rush with 1 rax 3cc.... You can try whatever you like, i'll still able to hold it.

So all those topic trying to legitimate cheese over macro... no rlly.

Every player should know some cheese build, but should not rely on them.
And the reason pro dont cheese is because they're rlly good at handling them. Just watch korean players hold anything with 1 bunker and 3 rines..

If you think that pros don't cheese then why do I see bunker rushes, 11/11 racks in game 7's (even game 7's of tournament finals) and proxy gates against NaNiWa. Clearly pro's do cheese in fact much of the mind games and meta used to revolve around Terran hiding their first barracks, even if somewhere near their main for a FE build it was far more entertaining and interesting than 15 minute NR that is so very common.

Prev 1 4 5 6 All

Please or register to reply.

Live Events Refresh