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On January 19 2013 01:15 FutureBreedMachine wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 01:13 Powerfoe wrote:
I like how you wrote an essay complaining about how underpowered terran is and can still say, "I'm not saying terran is underpowered." Well I suppose you're right. I'm saying that at a Korean Pro level, most races are relatively balanced, however at lower levels I would say there is an imbalance. Thanks for pointing that out.
You're right though. Even at the highest level, Zerg has been the best race for over a year and Terran is the most difficult race to win competitive tournaments with at the moment, even more so than it is as Protoss.
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On January 19 2013 01:28 Nimix wrote:
I just lost all my games today against low masters and high diamonds, and i'm pretty depressed. I really feel like i play as well/better as my opponents but still get CRUSHED. Like, CRUSHED, in most of the games. I don't know, I'd love blizzard to do something about other races macro compared to terran's. We don't have something to increase our units production, only our income. Our production is the longest to come in to play because of addons. And our units aren't great enough to justify such handicaps imo.
I really feel like switching races or just quitting, because terran is by far the funniest race to play for me, but losing all the time hopelessly isn't fun.
Hey man I know your pain. I don't think those issues would do too well for balancing the Pro level however ahahah.. Just small things could use a change.
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No point to beat a dead horse imo. All terran players know this. Players of other races would remain in denial. And of course blizzard won't do anything to help T. Its up to T players to make the race stronger these days, as it has been for a while. “Give up” as you want and no one would care.
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Austria24417 Posts
I like "the protoss army is always ready for combat". That's just completely, absolutely, 100% wrong. This just seems pretty whiny to me overall. Entombed Valley is also not extremely protoss favored. There's tons of ways to abuse the map as terran, you just have to be competent enough.
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On January 19 2013 01:46 DarkLordOlli wrote:
I like "the protoss army is always ready for combat". That's just completely, absolutely, 100% wrong.
I'd like the hear an explanation on why you say that.
I feel compared to terran and zerg, that protoss IS battle ready all the time.
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On January 19 2013 01:46 DarkLordOlli wrote:
I like "the protoss army is always ready for combat". That's just completely, absolutely, 100% wrong. Yes you're correct it is completely wrong, the actually statement reads "The Protoss army is almost always ready for battle". Please use the direct quote.
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On January 19 2013 01:47 InfCereal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 01:46 DarkLordOlli wrote:
I like "the protoss army is always ready for combat". That's just completely, absolutely, 100% wrong. I'd like the hear an explanation on why you say that. I feel compared to terran and zerg, that protoss IS battle ready all the time.
Sentries out of energy.
Still completely ready for combat?
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On January 19 2013 01:46 DarkLordOlli wrote:
There's tons of ways to abuse the map as terran, you just have to be competent enough.
Please enlighten us.
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Austria24417 Posts
On January 19 2013 01:47 InfCereal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 01:46 DarkLordOlli wrote:
I like "the protoss army is always ready for combat". That's just completely, absolutely, 100% wrong. I'd like the hear an explanation on why you say that. I feel compared to terran and zerg, that protoss IS battle ready all the time.
Ever had the problem that your melee units are stuck in the back as terran? Or zerg, with lings being super quick?
Ever had the problem that you can't split up your army because it's super fragile in low numbers? There are a TON of fights you can't take as protoss or your army will melt away in seconds. If you walk out on the map, you always have to be aware of opponent's positioning so you don't get flanked because you can't take that fight. The "protoss deathball" that's being talked about with templar/chargelot/stalker/colossus loses to the ultimate terran deathball (viking, ghost, BC) and the ultimate zerg deathball (BL/infestor/corruptor), both of which are always ready to take fights no matter where and when.
On January 19 2013 01:55 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 01:46 DarkLordOlli wrote:
There's tons of ways to abuse the map as terran, you just have to be competent enough. Please enlighten us.
Multitasking aggression. Drop in the main, get positioning on the third. If protoss just warps in in the main and denies your positioning, pick up and drop in the natural. Just keep your macro up, keep protoss pinned back. And make ghosts. Use the path between natural and third against protoss by attacking colossi with vikings. You see that from players who are actually good.
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i wasnt aware of this...terran is the most fun race for me. units worth micro'ing, not spells, but good old unit micro.
it is understandable in lower leagues though, marine splitting is a requirement in marine based play in tvz.
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On January 19 2013 01:20 Mongolbonjwa wrote:
I have said this for long time, and I say this again. Terran is the hardest race by far, both mechanically and strategically.
Terran has been nerfed to the ground so many times that I have lost track, and blizzards unability to make mech work in TvP despite many attemps and opportunities tells me that nothing is going to change. I would say that terran as it is now, is in wrong game because other two races are just so much more mobile and flexible that terran has hard time to compete with them in any aspect of the game.
i cant agree with you, i played terran a long time, a very long time and just recently wanted to switch. and in my experience i must say zerg strategy and macro is hard, hell even the micro is hard unless you go for infestors...
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Well the other races are more rewarding to play with less effort. Terran is not underpowered or anything but you can't be lazy with the viable playstyles Terran has. If this changes Terran might become more popular.
Also hard to get into Terran unless you read up on the topic.
I don't mind it is nice to have a grind race.
From personal experience there are more defensive and passive players out there. Playing aggressive is something people have to get into and it is usually harder to do. Zerg is probably a good example for this, they can easily be aggressive as some pros show. But most people prefer to sit it out, because it is safer.
And the easiest playstyle Terran has is the aggressive one, the defensive one is really hard to execute. So the race itself doesn't suit the majority of people.
Loving defensive play, Terran was really hard to pick up for me despite being my favorite race. While Zerg was easy for me from the getgo. But I know aggressive players that have trouble with any race except Terran.
Anyway if they make mech to easy by allowing it to be played purely defensive, Terran will bloom.
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On January 19 2013 01:55 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 01:47 InfCereal wrote:On January 19 2013 01:46 DarkLordOlli wrote:
I like "the protoss army is always ready for combat". That's just completely, absolutely, 100% wrong. I'd like the hear an explanation on why you say that. I feel compared to terran and zerg, that protoss IS battle ready all the time. Ever had the problem that your melee units are stuck in the back as terran? Or zerg, with lings being super quick? Ever had the problem that you can't split up your army because it's super fragile in low numbers? There are a TON of fights you can't take as protoss or your army will melt away in seconds. If you walk out on the map, you always have to be aware of opponent's positioning so you don't get flanked because you can't take that fight. The "protoss deathball" that's being talked about with templar/chargelot/stalker/colossus loses to the ultimate terran deathball (viking, ghost, BC) and the ultimate zerg deathball (BL/infestor/corruptor), both of which are always ready to take fights no matter where and when. Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 01:55 TheDwf wrote:On January 19 2013 01:46 DarkLordOlli wrote:
There's tons of ways to abuse the map as terran, you just have to be competent enough. Please enlighten us. Multitasking aggression. Drop in the main, get positioning on the third. If protoss just warps in in the main and denies your positioning, pick up and drop in the natural. Just keep your macro up, keep protoss pinned back. And make ghosts. Use the path between natural and third against protoss by attacking colossi with vikings.
Please play some Terran before talking about a unit (Battlecruisers) built maybe one game out of 500, and drop play in a map with little to no air space.
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On January 19 2013 02:00 FeyFey wrote:
Well the other races are more rewarding to play with less effort. Terran is not underpowered or anything but you can't be lazy with the viable playstyles Terran has. If this changes Terran might become more popular.
Also hard to get into Terran unless you read up on the topic.
I don't mind it is nice to have a grind race.
From personal experience there are more defensive and passive players out there. Playing aggressive is something people have to get into and it is usually harder to do. Zerg is probably a good example for this, they can easily be aggressive as some pros show. But most people prefer to sit it out, because it is safer.
And the easiest playstyle Terran has is the aggressive one, the defensive one is really hard to execute. So the race itself doesn't suit the majority of people.
Loving defensive play, Terran was really hard to pick up for me despite being my favorite race. While Zerg was easy for me from the getgo. But I know aggressive players that have trouble with any race except Terran.
Anyway if they make mech to easy by allowing it to be played purely defensive, Terran will bloom. ya mech is really what I believe would bring more people to play Terran
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On January 19 2013 01:15 FutureBreedMachine wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 01:13 Powerfoe wrote:
I like how you wrote an essay complaining about how underpowered terran is and can still say, "I'm not saying terran is underpowered." Well I suppose you're right. I'm saying that at a Korean Pro level, most races are relatively balanced, however at lower levels I would say there is an imbalance. Thanks for pointing that out.
Is there such thing as imbalance at lower levels? doesn't it mean that you're losing games simply because you're not good enough?
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My struggles as a Gold League Terran lately have centered around the following reasons for losing:
- "You just need to macro better."
- "You didn't have the right army composition, you need to scout better."
While I understand that both of those elements are important, it feels like I'm fighting an up-hill battle in any non-mirror match up as a Terran. I can't simply focus on macro against Toss or Zerg because their late game armies are simply too powerful. I have to be at least as good on my macro AND be doing constant harassment to my Toss or Zerg opponent. Meanwhile, a Toss or a Zerg can just focus purely on macro and be just fine. I've heard plenty of comments like, "Of course you lost, you let the Toss/Zerg sit back and tech." I've never heard that said about losing to a Terran.
Scouting for army composition is another issue. In TvP, I need to know roughly how many Colossi and how many HT/Archons my opponent has to be able to balance my composition correctly. The same thing with TvZ. I'm having to respond to my opponent's composition. As a Terran in those match ups, is there any army composition that a Toss or Zerg has to worry about scouting ahead of time that will change their composition? It doesn't feel like the other two races have to respond to my composition nearly as much as I do to theirs.
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I just think that you need a decent amount of game knowledge and experience before you can even "start" playing terran properly.
Sure you can make stalkers, templar and collusi and attack and press t in bronze league. but can you use ghosts at all ? what about kiting zealots or split marines vs banelings? alot of these things make terran underpowered in low level play, unless you do a less mechanically requiring style like mech (your units will just do what they promise to do, and not die to aoe because you don't have high level control.)
I don't think its a bad thing that terran is designed this way, since i really like the overall unit control based styles like bio, however it just makes it very hard for newer players. Maybe if blizzard makes mech viable, alot of newer players can start out terran with it, and then still have same success with the game as zergs and protosses at low level have with their race.
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On January 19 2013 01:28 ImANinjaBich wrote:
Well terran is much harder to play ata lower level. I am a life long terran player. When i first started Bronze 1v1 and D in BW, I was stuck in bronze FOREVER! Honestly now that i am mechanically sound i went right to masters. Terran is tough to play, it requires micro and better decision making than other races. Our units aren't as strong as protoss and not as fast as zerg. So we are forced to turtle. That isn't afun play style but it is what it is. So i can completely see why it is not played by as many people.
well terran is not a turtle race.
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On January 19 2013 02:12 TsGBruzze wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 01:28 ImANinjaBich wrote:
Well terran is much harder to play ata lower level. I am a life long terran player. When i first started Bronze 1v1 and D in BW, I was stuck in bronze FOREVER! Honestly now that i am mechanically sound i went right to masters. Terran is tough to play, it requires micro and better decision making than other races. Our units aren't as strong as protoss and not as fast as zerg. So we are forced to turtle. That isn't afun play style but it is what it is. So i can completely see why it is not played by as many people. well terran is not a turtle race.
lol exactly. Of all 3 races Terran is the only one that CAN'T turtle successfully. You have to cheese like a madman if you want to win. Protoss seems to have the best turtle power due to forcefields and insane deathball splash damage. This is also pretty true for Zerg but only because infestors and broods are so overpowered. There is a reason Terran is always the aggressor in pro games, if you aren't constantly picking apart your opponents then you're getting behind.
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On January 19 2013 01:59 TsGBruzze wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 01:20 Mongolbonjwa wrote:
I have said this for long time, and I say this again. Terran is the hardest race by far, both mechanically and strategically.
Terran has been nerfed to the ground so many times that I have lost track, and blizzards unability to make mech work in TvP despite many attemps and opportunities tells me that nothing is going to change. I would say that terran as it is now, is in wrong game because other two races are just so much more mobile and flexible that terran has hard time to compete with them in any aspect of the game. i cant agree with you, i played terran a long time, a very long time and just recently wanted to switch. and in my experience i must say zerg strategy and macro is hard, hell even the micro is hard unless you go for infestors...
Please, you cant seriously say that zerg has harder macro while only thing they need to build is hatchery and occasional tech building while terran constantly has to build new production facilities and addons and pay attention to merciless production cycles while zerg can forget those because larva does not disappear anywhere. Also eventually terran runs out of space and needs to build stuff to more vulnerable places.
Micro harder for zerg you say? How can you even compare your baneling a-move to marine splits that require good reaction times and fast actions otherwise all marines are gonna melt away. This game also makes autoflank so well that you dont neccesarily need to pay attention to battle at all while for terran this is never true.
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