EPTIs Terran to remain the lowest played race? - Page 3
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Leetley
1796 Posts
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FrashQ
53 Posts
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SoulWedding
United Kingdom5 Posts
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Mongolbonjwa
Finland376 Posts
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On January 19 2013 01:28 Nimix wrote: I just lost all my games today against low masters and high diamonds, and i'm pretty depressed. I really feel like i play as well/better as my opponents but still get CRUSHED. Like, CRUSHED, in most of the games. I don't know, I'd love blizzard to do something about other races macro compared to terran's. We don't have something to increase our units production, only our income. Our production is the longest to come in to play because of addons. And our units aren't great enough to justify such handicaps imo. I really feel like switching races or just quitting, because terran is by far the funniest race to play for me, but losing all the time hopelessly isn't fun. But you didn't play better than your opponent, cause you lost. As a mid master Terran player, speaking from experience from losing to things that I think at the heat of the moment are complete B.S imho, if we take a step back and really think, are we really playing better? hell, what is better? Our APM is higher? That doesn't mean we're playing better. In every game that I've won/lost, I've found things that I could do better that isn't that much harder than what I'm doing now. It'd be boring if I could just 1A and press T or F a bunch of times. The point is, the non pros shouldn't whine cause they can always realistically improve in a short amount of time, things as simple as having better macro, to forming arcs before engagements. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
Protoss: high health, high cost, slow - Phalanx Zerg: low health, low cost, fast - Swarm | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On January 19 2013 02:18 Mongolbonjwa wrote: Please, you cant seriously say that zerg has harder macro while only thing they need to build is hatchery and occasional tech building while terran constantly has to build new production facilities and addons and pay attention to merciless production cycles while zerg can forget those because larva does not disappear anywhere. Also eventually terran runs out of space and needs to build stuff to more vulnerable places. [...] That is so not true, in my opinion. Terran can queue up units (obviously not 4-5, that would lose you the game, but queuing 2 units isn't that bad), but the zerg inject timing has to be perfect. Also, if I has excess resources from macroing badly, I just drop down a couple of more production facilities with those resources and I am fine within one to two minutes. Zerg needs to build a new hatch, which takes longer, build a new queen and wait for the inject to hit in, to make up for the lack of macro. | ||
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Nezgar
Germany534 Posts
1. When it comes to TL.net the vast majority here is terrans. Just take a look at FPL where there are groups for protoss, terran and zerg. The terran group is larger than both zerg and protoss combined. 2. From my personal experience in both WoL (since early beta) and HotS terran was the most played race for the most part of WoL and even now I see more terrans than protoss on ladder. It was roughly 50/35/15% Z/T/P when playing 1vs1 (Plat-Master) and 2vs2 (hight Masters) in both Wings and HotS recently. 3. Terran was the most dominant race when it comes to tournaments during all of WoL up until Summer 2012 when Zerg took over. http://aligulac.com/periods/ has a pretty neat history overview when it comes to which race was dominant at which part of Wings. I still stand by the general sentiment that terrans don't utilize their units to the fullest. I see many many games where terrans simply refuse to build ghosts in a long drawnout macro TvP. In general is the lack of terrans using their spellcasters alarming. Most players just go for the really easy to control bioball which requires only stimkiting and occasional splitting. I even see high master terrans playing with only one single control group for their whole army. I feel like terrans were fed with too easy victories for the majority of Wings that most of the casual players never really bothered learning how to properly control an army. Jeez, many people still think that stutterstep is the hardest form of micro or general army control. I mean c'mon, terran bio units even move at the same freakin speed so that you don't have to worry which unit arrives at which time when moving your army over the map. It doesn't get much easier, really. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On January 19 2013 02:32 Nezgar wrote: I still stand by the general sentiment that terrans don't utilize their units to the fullest. I see many many games where terrans simply refuse to build ghosts in a long drawnout macro TvP. In general is the lack of terrans using their spellcasters alarming. Most players just go for the really easy to control bioball which requires only stimkiting and occasional splitting. I even see high master terrans playing with only one single control group for their whole army. I feel like terrans were fed with too easy victories for the majority of Wings that most of the casual players never really bothered learning how to properly control an army. Jeez, many people still think that stutterstep is the hardest form of micro or general army control. I mean c'mon, terran bio units even move at the same freakin speed so that you don't have to worry which unit arrives at which time when moving your army over the map. It doesn't get much easier, really. Please read the op. The op is stating his opinion regarding terran on low levels. | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
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sdecker32
United States38 Posts
On January 19 2013 02:32 Nezgar wrote: . Jeez, many people still think that stutterstep is the hardest form of micro or general army control. I mean c'mon, terran bio units even move at the same freakin speed so that you don't have to worry which unit arrives at which time when moving your army over the map. It doesn't get much easier, really. Not sure if you are trolling here or do not watch/play starcraft. | ||
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DavoS
United States4605 Posts
On January 19 2013 01:15 FutureBreedMachine wrote: Well I suppose you're right. I'm saying that at a Korean Pro level, most races are relatively balanced, however at lower levels I would say there is an imbalance. Thanks for pointing that out. And last year this was reversed for Terran and Zerg, where lower level Zerg players got stomped by any Terran player but as you climbed towards Code S players, you noticed that Zergs were winning a larger percentage of games. Honestly, as a random player, my best matches are TvZ and ZvT. As long as you just shift command the SCV's that are building things and keep checking on your current SCV production, it really is no different than Protoss macro mechanics essentially. Zerg production is notably easier as long as you keep on top of larvae injects, but if you lose a hatch it throws you off WAY worse than a barracks getting destroyed | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
On January 19 2013 02:27 Thieving Magpie wrote: Terran: low health, low cost, slow - Glass Cannons Protoss: high health, high cost, slow - Phalanx Zerg: low health, low cost, fast - Swarm There is nothing low health about Zerg lategame (broods, ultras, etc etc). Quite the opposite really. And lets face it, most vs Z games end with infestor + brood and then ultra tech switches if necessary. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On January 19 2013 02:32 Nezgar wrote: I still stand by the general sentiment that terrans don't utilize their units to the fullest. Preposterous. So many Terrans units were destroyed/weakened (and some rightfully so) precisely because Terrans were using or starting to use their full potential. On January 19 2013 02:32 Nezgar wrote: I see many many games where terrans simply refuse to build ghosts in a long drawnout macro TvP. Ghosts are perfectly standard in macro games involving Templar tech, no idea what you're talking about. | ||
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Moony
United States533 Posts
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
I do find it curious though that our best foreign players are largely zerg. Also @ the guy saying Terran's are refusing to make ghosts in long drawn out TvP's.... I really have no idea what games you're watching and referring to. I don't remember the last time I saw a high level TvP that didn't include ghosts when the game went past 3 bases. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On January 19 2013 02:45 AnomalySC2 wrote: There is nothing low health about Zerg lategame (broods, ultras, etc etc). Quite the opposite really. And lets face it, most vs Z games end with infestor + brood and then ultra tech switches if necessary. Mostly just saying that its less painful to lose lings than to lose marines and protoss units fit together better than terran units. Terran can kind of "do it all" but you got to squeeze the sponge damn hard to get anything out of it--which I like actually. Personally, I think it's working as intended. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
In Broodwar it wasn't such the case , terran could turtle all game and win without even attacking . Just split the map , and there was nothing more cost effective then the tank , even carriers were not cost effective against mass of upgraded goliaths . Flash won like half of his games by his opponents starving themselves , by throwing shit at him and just dieing . Tank//vulture/goliath/vessel/turrets can be more cost effective then anything the other 2 races could throw at them . While in SC2 it's the opposite zerg and protoss have more cost effective late game and they could win , by just defending well . And while you get better and better with terran it gets harder and harder to play aggresive , because everyone gets really good at defending or just kill you if you try to play greedy . I think terran is all about perfecting your macro and build orders even your building placement on for every map .While the other races could play a lot more free style . And thats why foreign terrans can't even hold a candle to a korean terran . They focus more on how to kill their opponents earlier , because they are scared of the late game , while they should focus on how they could set themselves better for the late game even if they don't end up damaging their opponents along the way . Just look at how well Flash optimizes his build orders to the last depot . You never see him behind in supply if he makes it through the early middle game without taking a huge blow . Or Fantasy executing a difficult harass build . They just never think twice about what they have to do next until they are far out in to the late game . Korean terrans just optimize their macro and builds better when they practice then foreigners . Overall you have to have a perfect plan before starting the game so you could multitask more fluently in game . I think this is also one of the reason while the terrans are better at a GSL style tournament (practicing for a few games a time) then a foreigner style tournament where all the games are played in the spam of 3 days and you can't prepare for them . | ||
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christophequirion
France82 Posts
1. When it comes to TL.net the vast majority here is terrans. Just take a look at FPL where there are groups for protoss, terran and zerg. The terran group is larger than both zerg and protoss combined. hum... isn't the default race terran ? | ||
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
On January 19 2013 02:57 Joedaddy wrote: I do find it curious though that our best foreign players are largely zerg. Korean pros are very aggressive. Often watching streams they'll gas first in TvT because they are confident with their control and multitasking. Foreigners, on the other hand, tend to favor macro games with many bases. Naturally, macro games favor the zerg more then the terran, so in foreignland Zerg is better represented. In aggro korea, Terran is better represented. In addition, the greatest difficulty with Zerg IMO is identifying what your opponent is doing, then reacting accordingly. Because a Zerg that knows exactly whats coming can drone and build units properly, thus coming out ahead (usually). This is why they are worse in lower leagues but very healthy in higher leagues when Zergs can dedicate themselves to beating these timings and securing their deathball. EDIT: Never mind. | ||
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