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On January 20 2013 02:35 LOveRH wrote:
I'm pretty depressed that people are focusing more on the person in question then the main idea in the OP. It's about Own3d.tv and how they are ripping off people. Yet, no one can get past "Okay, so I know we don't like Destiny here"... Come on, you all need to grow up.
On topic, i feel that Own3d.tv has completely disrespected their contracts with many people. It's one thing if its one person but this is many people coming out and saying that the company is being shady as hell. Own3d.tv deserves, in my opinion to go under, i don't even believe they should reorganize or restructure because i still think everyone would still look poorly on them. They apparently KNOW what they are doing and yet keep doing it, no restructuring is going to fix the fact that they are openly lying to their clients about money. Why the hell would anyone sign with them if he/she have mouths to feed at home? I feel bad for anyone who has to deal with that bullshit.
I think both the issues speak to the immaturity of everyone involved with eSports.
From the community side, we have too many people focusing on the person (who frankly should be thanked for even breaking this story) instead of the content.
From the business side, we seem to have a lack of robust operating procedures and instead have too many questionable business practices.
And it seems strange that the journalists don't do an adequate job investigating (maybe because they get berated when they break stories).
There just seems to be too much optimistic cheerleading (yay esports) and not enough administrative problem solving.
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On January 20 2013 05:17 Eventine wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2013 02:35 LOveRH wrote:
I'm pretty depressed that people are focusing more on the person in question then the main idea in the OP. It's about Own3d.tv and how they are ripping off people. Yet, no one can get past "Okay, so I know we don't like Destiny here"... Come on, you all need to grow up.
On topic, i feel that Own3d.tv has completely disrespected their contracts with many people. It's one thing if its one person but this is many people coming out and saying that the company is being shady as hell. Own3d.tv deserves, in my opinion to go under, i don't even believe they should reorganize or restructure because i still think everyone would still look poorly on them. They apparently KNOW what they are doing and yet keep doing it, no restructuring is going to fix the fact that they are openly lying to their clients about money. Why the hell would anyone sign with them if he/she have mouths to feed at home? I feel bad for anyone who has to deal with that bullshit. I think both the issues speak to the immaturity of everyone involved with eSports. From the community side, we have too many people focusing on the person (who frankly should be thanked for even breaking this story) instead of the content. From the business side, we seem to have a lack of robust operating procedures and instead have too many questionable business practices. And it seems strange that the journalists don't do an adequate job investigating (maybe because they get berated when they break stories). There just seems to be too much optimistic cheerleading (yay esports) and not enough administrative problem solving.
Well the age of our community is pretty young its pretty safe to say 13-26 is the age group. Players haven't had to deal with size of our community and the bussiness aspect because no one saw it getting as big as it is. The fact that you can hide behind an account on the internet means stupid things get said. My thing is there are options for people invovled to deal with things privately, everytime we make grand posts and rally the masses it hurts esports. There is no legal body to protect players from things. But even so a matter of not getting paid by so and so is a private matter and shouldn't really be debated by the public about this.
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I hope people tuned in to the ChanmanV discussion on stream yesterday with Dima, Destiny, Husky and friends, as they gave some good information.
And if you didn't tune in, I better hope you had a better reason than "I'm not going to tune in to a stream with Destiny in it."
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On January 20 2013 06:27 NumberFive wrote:
I hope people tuned in to the ChanmanV discussion on stream yesterday with Dima, Destiny, Husky and friends, as they gave some good information.
And if you didn't tune in, I better hope you had a better reason than "I'm not going to tune in to a stream with Destiny in it."
how about the stream was during normal work hours?
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On January 20 2013 06:27 NumberFive wrote:
I hope people tuned in to the ChanmanV discussion on stream yesterday with Dima, Destiny, Husky and friends, as they gave some good information.
And if you didn't tune in, I better hope you had a better reason than "I'm not going to tune in to a stream with Destiny in it."
i didn't know about it, got a link of a VoD?
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I never liked owned anyway. Prob will never give them a chance now.
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On January 20 2013 06:40 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2013 06:27 NumberFive wrote:
I hope people tuned in to the ChanmanV discussion on stream yesterday with Dima, Destiny, Husky and friends, as they gave some good information.
And if you didn't tune in, I better hope you had a better reason than "I'm not going to tune in to a stream with Destiny in it." how about the stream was during normal work hours?
Wow people like you and I who work during during the day... damn us for 'hurting' eSports by not watching that stream.
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I don't like or dislike Destiny, but after reading his reasons, I started to grow hate on him. I mean, come on!, you have a kid, and this is your best effort to support you child? Really? I mean for supplemental income, its reasonable, but as your main source of income and making it as an excuse, WOW!!
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On January 20 2013 07:40 birdaholic wrote:
I don't like or dislike Destiny, but after reading his reasons, I started to grow hate on him. I mean, come on!, you have a kid, and this is your best effort to support you child? Really? I mean for supplemental income, its reasonable, but as your main source of income and making it as an excuse, WOW!!
Please do explain why that is.
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On January 20 2013 07:40 birdaholic wrote:
I don't like or dislike Destiny, but after reading his reasons, I started to grow hate on him. I mean, come on!, you have a kid, and this is your best effort to support you child? Really? I mean for supplemental income, its reasonable, but as your main source of income and making it as an excuse, WOW!!
I havent familiarized with the situation but I'm pretty sure destiny had a contract which implies that he shud get money when he streams (and has viewers), It's the same fucking thing as working in mcdonalds and not getting paid.
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On January 20 2013 07:54 DERPDERP wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2013 07:40 birdaholic wrote:
I don't like or dislike Destiny, but after reading his reasons, I started to grow hate on him. I mean, come on!, you have a kid, and this is your best effort to support you child? Really? I mean for supplemental income, its reasonable, but as your main source of income and making it as an excuse, WOW!! I havent familiarized with the situation but I'm pretty sure destiny had a contract which implies that he shud get money when he streams (and has viewers), It's the same fucking thing as working in mcdonalds and not getting paid.
I'm not ignoring his predicaments regarding the payments, that's another story. Working in McDonalds is 99.999% paid at fixed interval 100% of the time. While streaming is not, sometimes you get money, sometimes its not enough. And this is where I stand, using the family and supporting a child as an excuse is not acceptable to me. We all have our own excuses, its like being caught by the highway police for over speeding, always lame excuses - "it's an emergency, I didn't see the limit sign, I'm late for work... blah blah blah"
It's not like the money coming from streaming is guaranteed to be sufficient, if its the money is yours and yours alone, sure. But for family reasons, and mouths to feed to your family, that is very sensitive matters to me.
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On January 20 2013 08:16 birdaholic wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2013 07:54 DERPDERP wrote:On January 20 2013 07:40 birdaholic wrote:
I don't like or dislike Destiny, but after reading his reasons, I started to grow hate on him. I mean, come on!, you have a kid, and this is your best effort to support you child? Really? I mean for supplemental income, its reasonable, but as your main source of income and making it as an excuse, WOW!! I havent familiarized with the situation but I'm pretty sure destiny had a contract which implies that he shud get money when he streams (and has viewers), It's the same fucking thing as working in mcdonalds and not getting paid. I'm not ignoring his predicaments regarding the payments, that's another story. Working in McDonalds is 99.999% paid at fixed interval 100% of the time. While streaming is not, sometimes you get money, sometimes its not enough. And this is where I stand, using the family and supporting a child as an excuse is not acceptable to me. We all have our own excuses, its like being caught by the highway police for over speeding, always lame excuses - "it's an emergency, I didn't see the limit sign, I'm late for work... blah blah blah" It's not like the money coming from streaming is guaranteed to be sufficient, if its the money is yours and yours alone, sure. But for family reasons, and mouths to feed to your family, that is very sensitive matters to me.
ooookkkkkk, so anyways, streaming to support yourself is perfectly fine especially when you have something in writing to ensure payment. Streaming also has the potential to pay a lot more in a year than working at mcdonalds can, so he could potentially support himself more doing something he likes with streaming. It's an attractive option if you can get a good offer and support from the site you stream from. You don't get the convenience of knowing someone will completely violate the terms they made with you when talking about pay and such.
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On January 20 2013 08:16 birdaholic wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2013 07:54 DERPDERP wrote:On January 20 2013 07:40 birdaholic wrote:
I don't like or dislike Destiny, but after reading his reasons, I started to grow hate on him. I mean, come on!, you have a kid, and this is your best effort to support you child? Really? I mean for supplemental income, its reasonable, but as your main source of income and making it as an excuse, WOW!! I havent familiarized with the situation but I'm pretty sure destiny had a contract which implies that he shud get money when he streams (and has viewers), It's the same fucking thing as working in mcdonalds and not getting paid. I'm not ignoring his predicaments regarding the payments, that's another story. Working in McDonalds is 99.999% paid at fixed interval 100% of the time. While streaming is not, sometimes you get money, sometimes its not enough. And this is where I stand, using the family and supporting a child as an excuse is not acceptable to me. We all have our own excuses, its like being caught by the highway police for over speeding, always lame excuses - "it's an emergency, I didn't see the limit sign, I'm late for work... blah blah blah" It's not like the money coming from streaming is guaranteed to be sufficient, if its the money is yours and yours alone, sure. But for family reasons, and mouths to feed to your family, that is very sensitive matters to me.
He isn't using his family as an excuse for anything, though...
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On January 20 2013 07:40 birdaholic wrote:
I don't like or dislike Destiny, but after reading his reasons, I started to grow hate on him. I mean, come on!, you have a kid, and this is your best effort to support you child? Really? I mean for supplemental income, its reasonable, but as your main source of income and making it as an excuse, WOW!!
As someone who recently had a (much smaller) delay in getting paid for work I did at a startup, the streamers involved should not have to justify their finances to you or anyone else in order to get paid money they are owed. My former employer flat out said to me "pfft, you can put off a tmobile bill for like two months" when I told him that I needed the check ASAP to keep my phone service on. Guess what happened? My phone service got shut off before I got paid and I almost didn't have enough money for food.
Both parties agreed to a contract. Destiny does work (attracting eyeballs to ads), Own3d pays him at an agreed rate. What happens to the money after that is none of their concern. It doesn't matter if Destiny uses the money to do lines of cocaine off of his son's ass, they are still contractually obliged to pay him. Period. There is no judgement of his choice of work or lifestyle in the payment terms of the contract.
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On January 20 2013 07:40 birdaholic wrote:
I don't like or dislike Destiny, but after reading his reasons, I started to grow hate on him. I mean, come on!, you have a kid, and this is your best effort to support you child? Really? I mean for supplemental income, its reasonable, but as your main source of income and making it as an excuse, WOW!!
Working for money and then getting screwed over by a company not paying you? Wow, how irresponsible of him.
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I think what birdaholic is now trying to get at is this:
Being self employed is irresponsible when you have a child because its a risk.
Which is why outside of Starcraft there aren't any self employed parents. Its just irresponsible.
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On January 20 2013 07:48 thekaas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2013 07:40 birdaholic wrote:
I don't like or dislike Destiny, but after reading his reasons, I started to grow hate on him. I mean, come on!, you have a kid, and this is your best effort to support you child? Really? I mean for supplemental income, its reasonable, but as your main source of income and making it as an excuse, WOW!! Please do explain why that is.
Streaming is not a job simple as that. It might get you money, but it isn't a job. If his real intentions were to secure finances to raise a child he would not be in esports. Think about it. What happens if his stream views go down? Computer parts break? Streaming company goes down? DDOS attacks? ISP has issues? At McDonalds as long as he showed up, flipped his burgers, and did what he was told, he would have a job and know that in only very rare instances would he not have a paycheck. All of that doesn't really matter he just wants his money that owned promised him, I just don't like that he uses having a kid as his point because clearly if his sole intention was to have a job that would allow him to raise his child, he would not be streaming.
Btw owned sucked anyways I don't understand why streamers used them.
Also where is the common sense from these gamers? These aren't mom and pop shops where some people might wait a month for a paycheck. These are supposedly financially secure websites. If you don't get paid, you should bring it up immediately, but it sounds like some people sat on this information many months past when they should have received their pay check.
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On January 20 2013 09:38 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2013 07:48 thekaas wrote:On January 20 2013 07:40 birdaholic wrote:
I don't like or dislike Destiny, but after reading his reasons, I started to grow hate on him. I mean, come on!, you have a kid, and this is your best effort to support you child? Really? I mean for supplemental income, its reasonable, but as your main source of income and making it as an excuse, WOW!! Please do explain why that is. Streaming is not a job simple as that. It might get you money, but it isn't a job. If his real intentions were to secure finances to raise a child he would not be in esports. Think about it. What happens if his stream views go down? Computer parts break? Streaming company goes down? DDOS attacks? ISP has issues? At McDonalds as long as he showed up, flipped his burgers, and did what he was told, he would have a job and know that in only very rare instances would he not have a paycheck. All of that doesn't really matter he just wants his money that owned promised him, I just don't like that he uses having a kid as his point because clearly if his sole intention was to have a job that would allow him to raise his child, he would not be streaming. Btw owned sucked anyways I don't understand why streamers used them. Also where is the common sense from these gamers? These aren't mom and pop shops where some people might wait a month for a paycheck. These are supposedly financially secure websites. If you don't get paid, you should bring it up immediately, but it sounds like some people sat on this information many months past when they should have received their pay check.
Once again what you are saying about streaming is true about any form of self employment.
The whole argument smacks of jealousy to me. You think that because he enjoys his job its not a real job. That's not how the world works. You ever hear a professional poker player in an interview? Poker is their JOB. Streaming is Destiny's job. It fulfills every requirement of a job. It takes time and earns money - therefore: JOB.
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On January 20 2013 09:38 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2013 07:48 thekaas wrote:On January 20 2013 07:40 birdaholic wrote:
I don't like or dislike Destiny, but after reading his reasons, I started to grow hate on him. I mean, come on!, you have a kid, and this is your best effort to support you child? Really? I mean for supplemental income, its reasonable, but as your main source of income and making it as an excuse, WOW!! Please do explain why that is. Streaming is not a job simple as that. It might get you money, but it isn't a job.
He had a contract. I'ts a job. Period. Had this contract been fulfilled, he would have been able to sustain his family. Neither of the things you brought up actually matter in Destiny's case, because they never became an issue. Who knows, maybe he was looking for a job besides streaming, considering his financial issues, but couldn't find one. Ever thought about that?
May I also point out, that you know jack and shit about the financial security of streaming?
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EPT
