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On January 11 2013 21:39 mathemagician1986 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 21:19 hfsrj wrote:
I always lol at people saying Fungal is an anti-I sport mechanics when FF isn't.
It's a darn good spell you don't like used agains you, that's all. And there is no way for Z to win a 200/200 battle without it. Have you tried to ling bane muta against a 200/200 bio ball/toss ball ? Just does not work. And the reason you don't stay on ling bane muta is that if the player is smart enough, he turtles up to 200/200 and outright kills you.
So a reasonable nerf of Infest or Infest/BL that would target specifically the late game would be appreciated (ie. nerf infest size, population). A nerf changing the mid/mid late game would just kill the Z.
That is why Bli² is struggling right now. IT nerf seems a decent option.
ling/bling/muta was always about the speed of the units, harassing, catching the opponent out of position. It's not designed to run into a 200/200 army heads on. I still think making fungal slow, not outright immobilize units would be interesting. It would at least add depth to the micro involved, whereas now people will either use ITs if they're still strong enough, or never use them at all. I also don't see how only slowing is a problem with mutas in ZvZ, as someone posted earlier.
Because mutas are a great unit in ZvZ and have been for 1.5years now. Every 2months you can hear or read a comment by some prozerg (korean and nonkorean) how they think the matchup is "all about muta" and stuff like that.
If you just watch any ZvZ including mutas, the game is mostly decided in those few minutes in between mutas and shutting them down with infestors.
The point that people just forget is that: Yes, you maybe able to shut down mutas even with a slowing fungal, but the situation you are in after turtling to infestors, losing map vision, being contained, investing in queen, spore, infestor... Is already a quite balanced one between the muta and the nonmuta player.
If you make mutas an even better choice as they are right now, you basically make them the only viable option in WoL ZvZ. But muta vs muta openings are really coinflippy and often end in boring mass muta vs mass muta play. And ending that with infestors will be even harder then.
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The change you consider doesnt solve the provlem...
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The "Fungal as a slow = more micro" argument to me seems a little silly.
If you are talking about point-of-attack unit movement as the only form of micro, then I agree totally. Fungal as a stun, however, punishes a lack of micro PRIOR to making contact with the enemy army. At least that's the way I look at it.
In the end, I'm good with nerfs to Z late game, but I really would like to see pros try some things that are drastically different from the norm in the vZ matchups, because I really feel like there is a lack of creativity in the pro scene right now.
Specifically I'd like to see openings that slow Z's economy by forcing units or builds that attack often into Infestors (immediately after they get on the field) emphasizing good splits and forcing inefficient Infestor energy usage.
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too late imo? Hots is almost out 
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Nerf infestor, but leave the immortal all in the way it is, a build that's had a stupidly high win ratio for the best part of a year. Dat logic.
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On January 11 2013 22:50 EssenceSC wrote:
Nerf infestor, but leave the immortal all in the way it is, a build that's had a stupidly high win ratio for the best part of a year. Dat logic.
Immortal sentry is only as good as it is due to forcefields. Blizzard can't remove forcefields without completely redesigning protoss.
With swarm so close to release, I think they're doing well by ignoring it and focusing on appeasing the vocal playerbase by nerfing the infestor.
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I want to run this idea by the community to see what they think. I realize that the infested terran are really strong. I know that getting the weapon and armor upgrades make them nearly broken. However, in the late game without the upgrades (specifically the attack upgrade) infested terran really do little damage. here's my suggestion. Take away the the evo chamber upgrades from the infested terran, but add in an upgrade to the infestation pit that becomes available at hive tech. Let this upgrade give the infested terran +1 or +1.5 attack power and no armor. It just a suggestion I haven't seen thrown out. How does this sound?
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On January 11 2013 23:01 InfCereal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 22:50 EssenceSC wrote:
Nerf infestor, but leave the immortal all in the way it is, a build that's had a stupidly high win ratio for the best part of a year. Dat logic. Immortal sentry is only as good as it is due to forcefields. Blizzard can't remove forcefields without completely redesigning protoss. With swarm so close to release, I think they're doing well by ignoring it and focusing on appeasing the vocal playerbase by nerfing the infestor.
same goes for zerg tho. If Blizzard will nerf the infestors to much, they would need to redesign the entire zerg race since all units are so cost ineffective without the infestor that Z would lose every late game fight. I was never a fan of fungal since it prevents micro... same with forcefield.
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On January 11 2013 22:50 EssenceSC wrote:
Nerf infestor, but leave the immortal all in the way it is, a build that's had a stupidly high win ratio for the best part of a year. Dat logic.
I would like to see the protoss winrate vs zerg without the immortal all in.
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On January 11 2013 23:11 Fatekeeper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 23:01 InfCereal wrote:On January 11 2013 22:50 EssenceSC wrote:
Nerf infestor, but leave the immortal all in the way it is, a build that's had a stupidly high win ratio for the best part of a year. Dat logic. Immortal sentry is only as good as it is due to forcefields. Blizzard can't remove forcefields without completely redesigning protoss. With swarm so close to release, I think they're doing well by ignoring it and focusing on appeasing the vocal playerbase by nerfing the infestor. same goes for zerg tho. If Blizzard will nerf the infestors to much, they would need to redesign the entire zerg race since all units are so cost ineffective without the infestor that Z would lose every late game fight. I was never a fan of fungal since it prevents micro... same with forcefield.
Yes because everyone knows how cost ineffective broodlords and fungal are.....the point is right now zerg late game is way too cost effective, to the point where once they get that late game army, it's nearly possible for t or p to win because it's nearly impossible for the other 2 races to actually transition to a composition that can fight it on equal footing (bc, raven, ghost for t, carrier void ray high templar with mothership for p)
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No infested terran upgrades? Alright Blizzard... I don't agree with this at all.
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nice change that we´re awaiting for nearly 1 year now. But Blizzard logic "let´s change the infestor 2 month before Hots is coming!"
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On January 11 2013 23:15 Klowney wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 22:50 EssenceSC wrote:
Nerf infestor, but leave the immortal all in the way it is, a build that's had a stupidly high win ratio for the best part of a year. Dat logic. I would like to see the protoss winrate vs zerg without the immortal all in.
How can they possibly even consider balancing the game when the immortal all in and 3 pylon block are still in WoL? Or my personal faviroute, 3 pylon block into immortal all in. Ladder win rates are insanely skewed.
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If Blizzard will continue to think of balancing the game only in terms of nerfs and buffs, the game will become boring as shit.
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On January 11 2013 23:43 EssenceSC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 23:15 Klowney wrote:On January 11 2013 22:50 EssenceSC wrote:
Nerf infestor, but leave the immortal all in the way it is, a build that's had a stupidly high win ratio for the best part of a year. Dat logic. I would like to see the protoss winrate vs zerg without the immortal all in. How can they possibly even consider balancing the game when the immortal all in and 3 pylon block are still in WoL? Or my personal faviroute, 3 pylon block into immortal all in. Ladder win rates are insanely skewed.
Oh yeah protoss is so overpowered...that's why they have had the least showing in major tournaments since....forever right?
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Just remove the infestor already^^
I'm playing sc2 very rarely at the moment, but if I do I always try to avoid infestors, because for example muta/ling is much more fun to play. Plus I hate games where both players just expand and macro up. I like action packed micro battles, not stupid infestor broodlord deathballs and archon toilets.
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On January 11 2013 23:50 ProfessionalNoob wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 23:43 EssenceSC wrote:On January 11 2013 23:15 Klowney wrote:On January 11 2013 22:50 EssenceSC wrote:
Nerf infestor, but leave the immortal all in the way it is, a build that's had a stupidly high win ratio for the best part of a year. Dat logic. I would like to see the protoss winrate vs zerg without the immortal all in. How can they possibly even consider balancing the game when the immortal all in and 3 pylon block are still in WoL? Or my personal faviroute, 3 pylon block into immortal all in. Ladder win rates are insanely skewed. Oh yeah protoss is so overpowered...that's why they have had the least showing in major tournaments since....forever right?
I never said that, i highlighted certain strategies that need to be looked at but don't get any attention because everyone is always jumping on the nerf infestor train.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On January 11 2013 11:28 KawaiiRice wrote:
finally the game will be fixed ! ! !
lol no. -_-
thank you kawaii
why can't the at least test some fungal nerfs...?
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On January 11 2013 23:56 EssenceSC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 23:50 ProfessionalNoob wrote:On January 11 2013 23:43 EssenceSC wrote:On January 11 2013 23:15 Klowney wrote:On January 11 2013 22:50 EssenceSC wrote:
Nerf infestor, but leave the immortal all in the way it is, a build that's had a stupidly high win ratio for the best part of a year. Dat logic. I would like to see the protoss winrate vs zerg without the immortal all in. How can they possibly even consider balancing the game when the immortal all in and 3 pylon block are still in WoL? Or my personal faviroute, 3 pylon block into immortal all in. Ladder win rates are insanely skewed. Oh yeah protoss is so overpowered...that's why they have had the least showing in major tournaments since....forever right? I never said that, i highlighted certain strategies that need to be looked at but don't get any attention because everyone is always jumping on the nerf infestor train.
why should 3 pylon block be looked at? it's piss easy to stop....
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This is a major change and it is something that had to be done, but in general with all free units (readjusting some of the dps in broodlord case).
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EPT
