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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On December 30 2012 07:43 Boucot wrote: 3 EG guys posted on this thread + SirScoots on Twitter. Did MoW hurt EG in a way ? Maybe you should investigate for us. They are Evil Geniuses... there must always be an evil plot underneath. | ||
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Wilko
Germany470 Posts
On December 30 2012 07:14 SupLilSon wrote: Don't hate for no reason, it's getting pretty old. Which players from MoW have improved/accomplished anything? To my knowledge Snute was staying at MoW and trained pretty exclusively on the Korean ladder. He's pretty much the only player I've heard from since training at that place. EGTL is winning matches in Pro League, what are the players training at MoW doing? Receding into obscurity for the most part. Again, all the curse and frathouse comments were old a year ago, get some new jokes that are actually relevant. I find that very harsh of you The players who came to train here aren't worldclass, so of course they won't achieve anything near what EG or TL players achieved, but the players who came to MoW and actually put effort into training got a lot better and also showed good results. Of course there were also players who went to MoW to "have fun" and who didn't took it as a serious place for practise, but to mainly enjoy themselves with other players, but those weren't all of them. Targa got 3rd place at Dreamhack Sage won Acer Starcraft 2 Challenge Titan won WCS Russia and got 3rd place at RSL and he and livezerg beat several top koreans and top foreigners in clan tournaments And also many of the lesser skilled players showed a lot of improvement I wish the boss would have also done a better job to show those good moments in MoW, which there were plenty of, but nobody actually knows about them Why is it that if some bad stuff happens everyone tries to demonize everything and to destroy everything. I sacrificed everything i had to get the chance to make it in the eSports scene (some of you might think that doing that is dumb, but i don't regret it and i started from a very low point in my life too, so i didn't had anything to lose, but i knew exactly what i wanted to achieve). Even tho it wasn't optimal, i still liked it a lot so far and im thankful to MoW giving me this opportunity to follow my dream. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On December 30 2012 08:00 MinistryOfWin wrote: You know, "the Boss" is me. I'm the one who invented this project and is in here from the beginning. I can take everything bad on me that happened, and I will still try to improve this. It's not fluff in the statement, with every defeat we gain more experience. I am pretty sure that the idea is amazing, the execution may not be that well, but the most important thing is that (I guess) noone that do something that he loves is trying to hurt it. We're not trying to hurt e-sports. We were working very hard and we are going to do that even harder. I am pretty amazed by the incontrol's post, I am going to contact you within the next few days. We are all building e-sports. The community, players, all the people. Let's keep it up and create something special, because... we can. Destroying is not the way. Regards, Maciej by "defeat" you mean "shafting people" common mistake. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
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MinistryOfWin
Poland87 Posts
On December 30 2012 08:16 IdrA wrote: by "defeat" you mean "shafting people" common mistake. This you simply don't understand. | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On December 30 2012 08:02 ReignSupreme. wrote: TargA's been getting some results since he stayed there. TargA could have gone anywhere not in Australia and improved. Better internets to practice on = better play. Can't really attribute that solely to MoW. | ||
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macncheezeplz
United States93 Posts
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desRow
Canada2654 Posts
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Noobity
United States871 Posts
On December 30 2012 06:30 Insomni7 wrote: You cannot not pay people because you don't feel they did a good job. You can terminate their contract but you cannot simply not pay them for the time they did work. Reading the press release made me feel that MoW didn't understand this. If there was a contract that was violated by not doing the job your contract said you had to do, then yes, you absolutely can refuse to pay. Assuming Illu was on a salary + commission plan for his recruiting work, if he did not hit that commission it's possible that the contract could allow MoW take away from his salary (this happens in America, not sure about Poland). Obviously all this relies on the contract created and the laws governing contracts in Poland, but assuming they're anything like what they are in the US, none of what people are accusing them of doing illegally is even questionable. For instance, Verizon Wireless has a minimum salary that sales workers earn, but by not hitting their quota some of that salary is with-held down to a certain minimum. If Illu was also being given food and lodging, it's likely that this food and lodging was the minimum pay. I still think MoW is a great thing for the community, and I think they're honestly learning from their mistakes. I would love to see them offer a semi-pro player a month or two and allow that player to make a detailed report of the usefulness and efficiency of the program, which I assume could truly give us a fair and unbiased view of what goes on there. The player would need to be able to record their information and their takes in private, and roll out that information after no longer being in the house. Now, I don't really trust this community to take that player on their word, but I truly think that would be the best way to show what's going on, and to provide MoW with something concrete to work on. I would love to see this program truly succeed, it's unfortunate that the public sees it the way they do right now. | ||
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MinistryOfWin
Poland87 Posts
On December 30 2012 08:30 Noobity wrote: If there was a contract that was violated by not doing the job your contract said you had to do, then yes, you absolutely can refuse to pay. Assuming Illu was on a salary + commission plan for his recruiting work, if he did not hit that commission it's possible that the contract could allow MoW take away from his salary (this happens in America, not sure about Poland). Obviously all this relies on the contract created and the laws governing contracts in Poland, but assuming they're anything like what they are in the US, none of what people are accusing them of doing illegally is even questionable. For instance, Verizon Wireless has a minimum salary that sales workers earn, but by not hitting their quota some of that salary is with-held down to a certain minimum. If Illu was also being given food and lodging, it's likely that this food and lodging was the minimum pay. I still think MoW is a great thing for the community, and I think they're honestly learning from their mistakes. I would love to see them offer a semi-pro player a month or two and allow that player to make a detailed report of the usefulness and efficiency of the program, which I assume could truly give us a fair and unbiased view of what goes on there. The player would need to be able to record their information and their takes in private, and roll out that information after no longer being in the house. Now, I don't really trust this community to take that player on their word, but I truly think that would be the best way to show what's going on, and to provide MoW with something concrete to work on. I would love to see this program truly succeed, it's unfortunate that the public sees it the way they do right now. It's the same in Poland - it's called "Umowa o Dzieło" (contract work) which is mostly about fullfilling the company's requests. Thank you for your post, we will try to improve. | ||
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BabyToss!
Czech Republic588 Posts
On December 30 2012 08:13 Wilko wrote: I find that very harsh of you The players who came to train here aren't worldclass, so of course they won't achieve anything near what EG or TL players achieved, but the players who came to MoW and actually put effort into training got a lot better and also showed good results. Of course there were also players who went to MoW to "have fun" and who didn't took it as a serious place for practise, but to mainly enjoy themselves with other players, but those weren't all of them. Targa got 3rd place at Dreamhack Sage won Acer Starcraft 2 Challenge Titan won WCS Russia and got 3rd place at RSL and he and livezerg beat several top koreans and top foreigners in clan tournaments And also many of the lesser skilled players showed a lot of improvement I wish the boss would have also done a better job to show those good moments in MoW, which there were plenty of, but nobody actually knows about them Why is it that if some bad stuff happens everyone tries to demonize everything and to destroy everything. I sacrificed everything i had to get the chance to make it in the eSports scene (some of you might think that doing that is dumb, but i don't regret it and i started from a very low point in my life too, so i didn't had anything to lose, but i knew exactly what i wanted to achieve). Even tho it wasn't optimal, i still liked it a lot so far and im thankful to MoW giving me this opportunity to follow my dream. Well, that's the thing, MoW should focus on updating the website and the good things as well - which completelly stopped, mind you, the website was outdated and the Facebook page offered no updates either... all you hear is the negative and it is really, really easy to assume things, Wilko. Plus, the mistakes clearly did happen, and it is clear that they were on MoW's side as well. However, I still hope that if things do improve and the house works on presenting the positive things to the community - or even better, the players themselves share them, as they are kinda testimonials to that place, people will regain trust in MoW and the house will start flourishing. But that will only happen if the management visibly tries hard. If things remain as they are now, the place being rather obscure and secretive, and all you can hear are unhappy former employers and some complaints from former residents, that's simply not gonna do it, and the house will disappear sooner or later. All in hands of those who run the house. | ||
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darthfoley
United States8003 Posts
On December 30 2012 08:34 MinistryOfWin wrote: It's the same in Poland - it's called "Umowa o Dzieło" (contract work) which is mostly about fullfilling the company's requests. Thank you for your post, we will try to improve. Just some advice, i'm tired of hearing about MoW "trying" to improve. It sounds much more confident and less shady to say "Thank you for your post, we will address the issues and we will improve" | ||
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MinistryOfWin
Poland87 Posts
On December 30 2012 08:36 darthfoley wrote: Just some advice, i'm tired of hearing about MoW "trying" to improve. It sounds much more confident and less shady to say "Thank you for your post, we will address the issues and we will improve" That's why now is the final time to do that. We don't want people to believe any much longer - we want people to see it. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
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BabyToss!
Czech Republic588 Posts
On December 30 2012 08:45 Redox wrote: This community is so good at beating up those that are already on their knees instead of trying to help them get up. That's because it's easier, that's why. As sad as it is. And agreed with that. | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10341 Posts
On December 30 2012 05:50 -Kaiser- wrote: "We didn't refuse to give them food if they slept in, what we had was a meal schedule." Yeah, seriously. | ||
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Glon
United States569 Posts
However, in the case of a legal infraction, such cases should be brought to light. A lot of the problems so far have come from people who sign a CONTRACT, then have to go back on their agreement and expect no consequences - again, it's a business. Make sure you have a lawyer read the contract before you sign anything, and go in with a full understanding of all of the terms. If something comes up outside of the contract - talk it over (such as denying lunch for missing breakfast..?). If you can't come to a solution that seems fair/reasonable to you, then fine make a post if you like. However, a public post should be one of the LAST options taken by players/community, NOT one of the first. Overall, I actually think MinistryOfWin has done a decent job handling all of this bad attention media-wise (Not making any claims about the house - they have messed up pretty badly with it so far). However, people need to stop assuming that they are entitled to all of the information about the house (players are to SOME of it, community aren't) | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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CursedRich
United Kingdom737 Posts
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Spiffeh
United States830 Posts
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