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On December 29 2012 10:12 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 08:42 Grumbels wrote:On December 28 2012 20:09 [F_]aths wrote:On December 28 2012 12:04 Patate wrote:On December 28 2012 11:32 purakushi wrote:
While I did find SC2 fun for a while, it will not stand the test of time, even if there are 2 expansions. KESPA should just adopt SC2BW (and help finish developing the mod). >_< Totally agree.. anyone who thinks Starcraft 2 will last more than 6-7 years are fooling themselves. This game doesn't have the depth nor the potential of Brood War. We have made thousands of posts about what should be changed ( not balance) but the only ones who can change the actual decline is Blizzard.. not the viewers, not the leagues, not the players, not the teams. The game isn't even complete yet. Both SC1 and WC3 had their real take-off after the expansion. I guess we can extrapolate a bright future for SC2 with two expansions still to be released. There was less than a year between the release of WC3 and its expansion, there is almost three years between the start of competitive SC2 and Heart of the Swarm. Any hype for SC2 has long died down by now with viewer numbers cut in half since last year. Furthermore, The Frozen Throne had more changes than Heart of the Swarm. (and imo, is likely the better game) I don't know what happened to Blizzard, but it just seems so odd to me that they have doubled their development time and have gotten less results to show for it. You have no idea what you're talking about in regards to viewer numbers, and the amount of time I've corrected people on this is getting ridiculous. Viewer counts are still rising, there's just so many tournaments the viewers are more spread out. Fr example, why would you give up your weekend to watch NASL, when you could watch IPL next week? Please actually check your facts before blindly jumping on the 'OMG SC2 IS DYING' bandwagon.
That just can't be true, viewer numbers are obviously down so much for so many streams/tournaments.
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On December 29 2012 02:17 tili wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 16:24 Sinensis wrote:
Not anyone, I assure you. Don't speak for all of us like that. I personally think HOTS is glitter on top of shit. A bandage on a quad amputation. I'm sorry... but why do you even come to a forum where 70% of ALL discussion is about a game you can "shit"? Why would you just not leave?
If you can point me in the direction of better BW coverage and forums then you'll never see me here again.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On December 29 2012 12:04 Sinensis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 02:17 tili wrote:On December 28 2012 16:24 Sinensis wrote:
Not anyone, I assure you. Don't speak for all of us like that. I personally think HOTS is glitter on top of shit. A bandage on a quad amputation. I'm sorry... but why do you even come to a forum where 70% of ALL discussion is about a game you can "shit"? Why would you just not leave? If you can point me in the direction of better BW coverage and forums then you'll never see me here again.
he probably means the sc2 subforums~
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I honestly think its a good thing if they wait for the expansion before having another OSL. Lets them work on their infrastructure, get casters, switch to HD broadcasting, etc. The StarCraft scene is already saturated with tournaments, so there is no need for OGN to rush out another one.
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In the golden age of the OSL they still only had 3 tournaments per year... This article is honestly crying wolf.
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On December 29 2012 10:22 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 10:19 Kraidio wrote:On December 29 2012 10:12 kollin wrote:On December 29 2012 08:42 Grumbels wrote:On December 28 2012 20:09 [F_]aths wrote:On December 28 2012 12:04 Patate wrote:On December 28 2012 11:32 purakushi wrote:
While I did find SC2 fun for a while, it will not stand the test of time, even if there are 2 expansions. KESPA should just adopt SC2BW (and help finish developing the mod). >_< Totally agree.. anyone who thinks Starcraft 2 will last more than 6-7 years are fooling themselves. This game doesn't have the depth nor the potential of Brood War. We have made thousands of posts about what should be changed ( not balance) but the only ones who can change the actual decline is Blizzard.. not the viewers, not the leagues, not the players, not the teams. The game isn't even complete yet. Both SC1 and WC3 had their real take-off after the expansion. I guess we can extrapolate a bright future for SC2 with two expansions still to be released. There was less than a year between the release of WC3 and its expansion, there is almost three years between the start of competitive SC2 and Heart of the Swarm. Any hype for SC2 has long died down by now with viewer numbers cut in half since last year. Furthermore, The Frozen Throne had more changes than Heart of the Swarm. (and imo, is likely the better game) I don't know what happened to Blizzard, but it just seems so odd to me that they have doubled their development time and have gotten less results to show for it. You have no idea what you're talking about in regards to viewer numbers, and the amount of time I've corrected people on this is getting ridiculous. Viewer counts are still rising, there's just so many tournaments the viewers are more spread out. Fr example, why would you give up your weekend to watch NASL, when you could watch IPL next week? Please actually check your facts before blindly jumping on the 'OMG SC2 IS DYING' bandwagon. I'm actually really interested in the numbers/money situation of SC2 right now. If you could, would you demonstrate the information on viewer counts you have? I understand the logic behind your statement, I would just like to see the proof. If you watch the drunk State of the Game, they have Sundance on and he explains it all. That and they repeatedly talk about the current over saturation in the scene right now. I'm pretty sure I've heard it in other places too, but it's one in the morning right now so I can't be bothered finding them ^^ EDIT: Oh and to those moaning about HOTS here is Artosis' rather sensible take on it:http://scdojo.tumblr.com/post/33810525615/sigh
Do you really think Artosis was gonna bitch on SC2? He's paid by GomTV which is helped by Blizzard. 1+1 = 2
He has posted this blog during the whole Destiny thing to calm things down. As much as I really like Artosis, I gave absolutely no honesty in that blog.
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On December 29 2012 11:23 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 10:12 kollin wrote:On December 29 2012 08:42 Grumbels wrote:On December 28 2012 20:09 [F_]aths wrote:On December 28 2012 12:04 Patate wrote:On December 28 2012 11:32 purakushi wrote:
While I did find SC2 fun for a while, it will not stand the test of time, even if there are 2 expansions. KESPA should just adopt SC2BW (and help finish developing the mod). >_< Totally agree.. anyone who thinks Starcraft 2 will last more than 6-7 years are fooling themselves. This game doesn't have the depth nor the potential of Brood War. We have made thousands of posts about what should be changed ( not balance) but the only ones who can change the actual decline is Blizzard.. not the viewers, not the leagues, not the players, not the teams. The game isn't even complete yet. Both SC1 and WC3 had their real take-off after the expansion. I guess we can extrapolate a bright future for SC2 with two expansions still to be released. There was less than a year between the release of WC3 and its expansion, there is almost three years between the start of competitive SC2 and Heart of the Swarm. Any hype for SC2 has long died down by now with viewer numbers cut in half since last year. Furthermore, The Frozen Throne had more changes than Heart of the Swarm. (and imo, is likely the better game) I don't know what happened to Blizzard, but it just seems so odd to me that they have doubled their development time and have gotten less results to show for it. You have no idea what you're talking about in regards to viewer numbers, and the amount of time I've corrected people on this is getting ridiculous. Viewer counts are still rising, there's just so many tournaments the viewers are more spread out. Fr example, why would you give up your weekend to watch NASL, when you could watch IPL next week? Please actually check your facts before blindly jumping on the 'OMG SC2 IS DYING' bandwagon. That just can't be true, viewer numbers are obviously down so much for so many streams/tournaments.
I guess reading comprehension is a hard skill to have. What I'm saying, is that there are so many tournaments right now viewers are more spread out between them. So for individual tournaments you have less viewers, but overall in this year you will see more viewers than 2011.
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Do we care about OSL not being what OSL was for SCBW when we allready have an OSL-esque league which did what OSL did in SCBW ...
I see that as general bandwagonism and just hope those not-so-smart heads at OSL fail miserably at it. (Just for the sake of being the evil, they deserve to fail)
Listen to some adebisi for some realistic approach to why that descision could turn out thé worst for OSL.
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On December 29 2012 20:16 bluQ wrote:
Do we care about OSL not being what OSL was for SCBW when we allready have an OSL-esque league which did what OSL did in SCBW ...
I see that as general bandwagonism and just hope those not-so-smart heads at OSL fail miserably at it. (Just for the sake of being the evil, they deserve to fail)
Listen to some adebisi for some realistic approach to why that descision could turn out thé worst for OSL.
You mean OGN failing?
That won't happen, LoL is too big for that.
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On December 29 2012 20:27 Kergy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 20:16 bluQ wrote:
Do we care about OSL not being what OSL was for SCBW when we allready have an OSL-esque league which did what OSL did in SCBW ...
I see that as general bandwagonism and just hope those not-so-smart heads at OSL fail miserably at it. (Just for the sake of being the evil, they deserve to fail)
Listen to some adebisi for some realistic approach to why that descision could turn out thé worst for OSL. You mean OGN failing? That won't happen, LoL is too big for that.
Most probably in some moment the channel will be LoL only.
This proleague they only produce half of the games each week, and lol has the Prime time.
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On December 29 2012 20:07 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 11:23 Grumbels wrote:On December 29 2012 10:12 kollin wrote:On December 29 2012 08:42 Grumbels wrote:On December 28 2012 20:09 [F_]aths wrote:On December 28 2012 12:04 Patate wrote:On December 28 2012 11:32 purakushi wrote:
While I did find SC2 fun for a while, it will not stand the test of time, even if there are 2 expansions. KESPA should just adopt SC2BW (and help finish developing the mod). >_< Totally agree.. anyone who thinks Starcraft 2 will last more than 6-7 years are fooling themselves. This game doesn't have the depth nor the potential of Brood War. We have made thousands of posts about what should be changed ( not balance) but the only ones who can change the actual decline is Blizzard.. not the viewers, not the leagues, not the players, not the teams. The game isn't even complete yet. Both SC1 and WC3 had their real take-off after the expansion. I guess we can extrapolate a bright future for SC2 with two expansions still to be released. There was less than a year between the release of WC3 and its expansion, there is almost three years between the start of competitive SC2 and Heart of the Swarm. Any hype for SC2 has long died down by now with viewer numbers cut in half since last year. Furthermore, The Frozen Throne had more changes than Heart of the Swarm. (and imo, is likely the better game) I don't know what happened to Blizzard, but it just seems so odd to me that they have doubled their development time and have gotten less results to show for it. You have no idea what you're talking about in regards to viewer numbers, and the amount of time I've corrected people on this is getting ridiculous. Viewer counts are still rising, there's just so many tournaments the viewers are more spread out. Fr example, why would you give up your weekend to watch NASL, when you could watch IPL next week? Please actually check your facts before blindly jumping on the 'OMG SC2 IS DYING' bandwagon. That just can't be true, viewer numbers are obviously down so much for so many streams/tournaments. I guess reading comprehension is a hard skill to have. What I'm saying, is that there are so many tournaments right now viewers are more spread out between them. So for individual tournaments you have less viewers, but overall in this year you will see more viewers than 2011.
Where's your source for this? I think that when viewer numbers are lower for all streams, it doesn't matter if there is a slightly higher density of tournaments compared to last year. Intuitively it makes more sense for total numbers to be down, especially if you combine this with the overall negativity on these forums and the stronger competition from dota and lol. Maybe not over all of 2012, but certainly for the last six months. Obviously I was exaggerating when I said cut in half, maybe it's even higher now than it was exactly at the end of 2011, but in 2012 there seemed to have been a plateauing of numbers and then a decline.
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On December 29 2012 20:07 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 16:24 Patate wrote:On December 29 2012 10:22 kollin wrote:On December 29 2012 10:19 Kraidio wrote:On December 29 2012 10:12 kollin wrote:On December 29 2012 08:42 Grumbels wrote:On December 28 2012 20:09 [F_]aths wrote:On December 28 2012 12:04 Patate wrote:On December 28 2012 11:32 purakushi wrote:
While I did find SC2 fun for a while, it will not stand the test of time, even if there are 2 expansions. KESPA should just adopt SC2BW (and help finish developing the mod). >_< Totally agree.. anyone who thinks Starcraft 2 will last more than 6-7 years are fooling themselves. This game doesn't have the depth nor the potential of Brood War. We have made thousands of posts about what should be changed ( not balance) but the only ones who can change the actual decline is Blizzard.. not the viewers, not the leagues, not the players, not the teams. The game isn't even complete yet. Both SC1 and WC3 had their real take-off after the expansion. I guess we can extrapolate a bright future for SC2 with two expansions still to be released. There was less than a year between the release of WC3 and its expansion, there is almost three years between the start of competitive SC2 and Heart of the Swarm. Any hype for SC2 has long died down by now with viewer numbers cut in half since last year. Furthermore, The Frozen Throne had more changes than Heart of the Swarm. (and imo, is likely the better game) I don't know what happened to Blizzard, but it just seems so odd to me that they have doubled their development time and have gotten less results to show for it. You have no idea what you're talking about in regards to viewer numbers, and the amount of time I've corrected people on this is getting ridiculous. Viewer counts are still rising, there's just so many tournaments the viewers are more spread out. Fr example, why would you give up your weekend to watch NASL, when you could watch IPL next week? Please actually check your facts before blindly jumping on the 'OMG SC2 IS DYING' bandwagon. I'm actually really interested in the numbers/money situation of SC2 right now. If you could, would you demonstrate the information on viewer counts you have? I understand the logic behind your statement, I would just like to see the proof. If you watch the drunk State of the Game, they have Sundance on and he explains it all. That and they repeatedly talk about the current over saturation in the scene right now. I'm pretty sure I've heard it in other places too, but it's one in the morning right now so I can't be bothered finding them ^^ EDIT: Oh and to those moaning about HOTS here is Artosis' rather sensible take on it:http://scdojo.tumblr.com/post/33810525615/sigh Do you really think Artosis was gonna bitch on SC2? He's paid by GomTV which is helped by Blizzard. 1+1 = 2 He has posted this blog during the whole Destiny thing to calm things down. As much as I really like Artosis, I gave absolutely no honesty in that blog. Do you really Artosis would blog about this if he didn't feel that way? That's just ridiculous. If he didn't mean what he said, he wouldn't have put his integrity on the line and lie like that. There was no obligation in the first place to voice his opinion like that.
Are you serious? Yes, Artosis would blog about it even if he didn't feel that way. He is a public figure, he represents GomTV.. therefore, his public opinions have to be in favor of his employer.
Jesus..
Edit: OR we give him the benefit of the doubt, and say that he clearly didn't understand what people are criticizing about this game. He starts his blog talking about PvT balance. Who cares? The game is flawed from the fact it is a "sit on 3 bases and max out in 12 min" game, with a deathball vs deathball deciding who wins.. He doesn't talk about this.
People can talk about imbalances all they want, even if the game is balanced, people will not come back to watch it. Spider mines and reavers are units that are amazing for spectators. They replaced them with Helions ( no friendly fire like the mines), and Colossus (1a up your ass). I do know reavers would be imbalanced with a smart AI, but everything is balancable.. when there's a will, there's a way. The only SC2 thing that I would put in that "crowd cheerer" category would be baneling mines.. and perhaps the lategame PvT (ghost vs Templar dynamic), which can be very interesting to watch.
There's no amount of balancing that will make SC2 as interesting as BW. And talking about balance, I think a game like SC2 is harder to balance because everyone plays "perfectly". The army movements are perfects, the macro can get close to perfect (not much incremental changes between the level we are at and perfection). Therefore the outcome depends on the units' stats, not the skill of the player.
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On December 30 2012 02:43 Patate wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 20:07 monkybone wrote:On December 29 2012 16:24 Patate wrote:On December 29 2012 10:22 kollin wrote:On December 29 2012 10:19 Kraidio wrote:On December 29 2012 10:12 kollin wrote:On December 29 2012 08:42 Grumbels wrote:On December 28 2012 20:09 [F_]aths wrote:On December 28 2012 12:04 Patate wrote:On December 28 2012 11:32 purakushi wrote:
While I did find SC2 fun for a while, it will not stand the test of time, even if there are 2 expansions. KESPA should just adopt SC2BW (and help finish developing the mod). >_< Totally agree.. anyone who thinks Starcraft 2 will last more than 6-7 years are fooling themselves. This game doesn't have the depth nor the potential of Brood War. We have made thousands of posts about what should be changed ( not balance) but the only ones who can change the actual decline is Blizzard.. not the viewers, not the leagues, not the players, not the teams. The game isn't even complete yet. Both SC1 and WC3 had their real take-off after the expansion. I guess we can extrapolate a bright future for SC2 with two expansions still to be released. There was less than a year between the release of WC3 and its expansion, there is almost three years between the start of competitive SC2 and Heart of the Swarm. Any hype for SC2 has long died down by now with viewer numbers cut in half since last year. Furthermore, The Frozen Throne had more changes than Heart of the Swarm. (and imo, is likely the better game) I don't know what happened to Blizzard, but it just seems so odd to me that they have doubled their development time and have gotten less results to show for it. You have no idea what you're talking about in regards to viewer numbers, and the amount of time I've corrected people on this is getting ridiculous. Viewer counts are still rising, there's just so many tournaments the viewers are more spread out. Fr example, why would you give up your weekend to watch NASL, when you could watch IPL next week? Please actually check your facts before blindly jumping on the 'OMG SC2 IS DYING' bandwagon. I'm actually really interested in the numbers/money situation of SC2 right now. If you could, would you demonstrate the information on viewer counts you have? I understand the logic behind your statement, I would just like to see the proof. If you watch the drunk State of the Game, they have Sundance on and he explains it all. That and they repeatedly talk about the current over saturation in the scene right now. I'm pretty sure I've heard it in other places too, but it's one in the morning right now so I can't be bothered finding them ^^ EDIT: Oh and to those moaning about HOTS here is Artosis' rather sensible take on it:http://scdojo.tumblr.com/post/33810525615/sigh Do you really think Artosis was gonna bitch on SC2? He's paid by GomTV which is helped by Blizzard. 1+1 = 2 He has posted this blog during the whole Destiny thing to calm things down. As much as I really like Artosis, I gave absolutely no honesty in that blog. Do you really Artosis would blog about this if he didn't feel that way? That's just ridiculous. If he didn't mean what he said, he wouldn't have put his integrity on the line and lie like that. There was no obligation in the first place to voice his opinion like that. Are you serious? Yes, Artosis would blog about it even if he didn't feel that way. He is a public figure, he represents GomTV.. therefore, his public opinions have to be in favor of his employer. Jesus..
But he didn't actually have an obligation to blog in the first place.
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I honestly would prefer proleague on the weekends. I have no time to watch it during the weekdays because I need to get up early for school
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On December 30 2012 02:45 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 02:43 Patate wrote:On December 29 2012 20:07 monkybone wrote:On December 29 2012 16:24 Patate wrote:On December 29 2012 10:22 kollin wrote:On December 29 2012 10:19 Kraidio wrote:On December 29 2012 10:12 kollin wrote:On December 29 2012 08:42 Grumbels wrote:On December 28 2012 20:09 [F_]aths wrote:On December 28 2012 12:04 Patate wrote:
[quote]
Totally agree.. anyone who thinks Starcraft 2 will last more than 6-7 years are fooling themselves. This game doesn't have the depth nor the potential of Brood War. We have made thousands of posts about what should be changed ( not balance) but the only ones who can change the actual decline is Blizzard.. not the viewers, not the leagues, not the players, not the teams. The game isn't even complete yet. Both SC1 and WC3 had their real take-off after the expansion. I guess we can extrapolate a bright future for SC2 with two expansions still to be released. There was less than a year between the release of WC3 and its expansion, there is almost three years between the start of competitive SC2 and Heart of the Swarm. Any hype for SC2 has long died down by now with viewer numbers cut in half since last year. Furthermore, The Frozen Throne had more changes than Heart of the Swarm. (and imo, is likely the better game) I don't know what happened to Blizzard, but it just seems so odd to me that they have doubled their development time and have gotten less results to show for it. You have no idea what you're talking about in regards to viewer numbers, and the amount of time I've corrected people on this is getting ridiculous. Viewer counts are still rising, there's just so many tournaments the viewers are more spread out. Fr example, why would you give up your weekend to watch NASL, when you could watch IPL next week? Please actually check your facts before blindly jumping on the 'OMG SC2 IS DYING' bandwagon. I'm actually really interested in the numbers/money situation of SC2 right now. If you could, would you demonstrate the information on viewer counts you have? I understand the logic behind your statement, I would just like to see the proof. If you watch the drunk State of the Game, they have Sundance on and he explains it all. That and they repeatedly talk about the current over saturation in the scene right now. I'm pretty sure I've heard it in other places too, but it's one in the morning right now so I can't be bothered finding them ^^ EDIT: Oh and to those moaning about HOTS here is Artosis' rather sensible take on it:http://scdojo.tumblr.com/post/33810525615/sigh Do you really think Artosis was gonna bitch on SC2? He's paid by GomTV which is helped by Blizzard. 1+1 = 2 He has posted this blog during the whole Destiny thing to calm things down. As much as I really like Artosis, I gave absolutely no honesty in that blog. Do you really Artosis would blog about this if he didn't feel that way? That's just ridiculous. If he didn't mean what he said, he wouldn't have put his integrity on the line and lie like that. There was no obligation in the first place to voice his opinion like that. Are you serious? Yes, Artosis would blog about it even if he didn't feel that way. He is a public figure, he represents GomTV.. therefore, his public opinions have to be in favor of his employer. Jesus.. But he didn't actually have an obligation to blog in the first place.
Of course not, but when your pay is involved.. :/
By the way, I've edited my post while you answered it.
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Well thank god there's still one more expansion as well as the rest of this expansion's beta left huh?
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So the next Starleague will probably be in May June in 2013 - and probably HotS as well?
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On December 29 2012 20:27 Kergy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 20:16 bluQ wrote:
Do we care about OSL not being what OSL was for SCBW when we allready have an OSL-esque league which did what OSL did in SCBW ...
I see that as general bandwagonism and just hope those not-so-smart heads at OSL fail miserably at it. (Just for the sake of being the evil, they deserve to fail)
Listen to some adebisi for some realistic approach to why that descision could turn out thé worst for OSL. You mean OGN failing? That won't happen, LoL is too big for that.
LoL has about another year in it, if that. Ultimately there are only so many interesting things that can happen in an online battle arena. The range of possibilities in Starcraft, however, remains limited only by the toolset given to the players.
Which is why a tiny change such as a unit gaining/losing an upgrade fundamentally changes the metagame, but changing entire heroes in LoL just results in a very slightly different battlefield.
Ultimately Starcraft 2 is a game of its lineage (Starcraft) and will stand the test of time. LoL won't.
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EPT
