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The most alarming part about these patches is not what they are testing (20HP does seem quite pitiful, but if they nerfed egg health to say 50HP then maybe tanks, PF's, storm, etc actually could kill the IT's before they spawned) but what they keep saying over and over again in their balance testing posts. They keep alluding to the fact that they see balanced statistics, and while sure that might be great, they're ignoring the fact that the game has become less enjoyable over the last few months with the new metagame.
iEchoic said something in the mech thread that I really agree with: infestors make marines unsustainable. While he was talking about hypotheticals it easily extends into standard play. If I have to babysit my ball of units consistently the entire game in fear of that single fungal that will ruin my entire strategy, then I'm just going to grow frustrated because as a non-pro I really can't do that.
I just wish someone in Blizzard would address concerns, not with balance, but with how the game plays out, because at this point it almost seems like the people in charge of the game are either unwilling to admit that the game they desgined has flaws, or they just don't play it.
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Now you're really embarrassing yourself, TaeJa destroys those three players even with bad wrists (which only seems to affect terrans btw, like Mvp, Ganzi, Flash and Boxer)[/QUOTE]
Stop micro isn't just imba, it takes a piece of your soul every time you do it.
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I for one think that no HSM upgrade is a huge buff . Late game it will be really effective against the zerg air army and massing Ravens could actually be worth it . I hope Blizzard sticks with it and i don't care if zergs whine about it since they have the infestor .
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Russian Federation216 Posts
On December 02 2012 01:59 Shermac wrote:
BWC, enough said.
Koreans stopming foreighers, OK
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On December 02 2012 02:20 raga4ka wrote:
I for one think that no HSM upgrade is a huge buff . Late game it will be really effective against the zerg air army and massing Ravens could actually be worth it . I hope Blizzard sticks with it and i don't care if zergs whine about it since they have the infestor .
It is a buff but I don't think it is a huge one. It makes the raven slightly more viable in the mid game and maybe you will see more pros try to fit it into their composition. But in terms of massing ravens in the late game, not having to research it is really negligible.
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On November 30 2012 19:46 plogamer wrote:
How to Nerf Fungal Growth without Buffing Sentries
Make Fungal Growth more like Seeker Missile and less like Psionic Storms.
A) Make it a spell that targets one unit, rather than an area.
B) Retain the rest of the functions - damage over time, root, instant cast.
Effect:
A) Ghosts cannot be uncloaked by Fungal Growth alone and will require overseer.
B) This increase skill level with Terran trying to snipe Overseers with Vikings while juking Infestors.
C) Cost gas to make multiple overseers and make it more challenging to mass a ton of Infestors.
Side effect:
A) All other invisible units will be affected. Good, because it reduces infestor utility.
B) Make it more difficult to assess the AoE of the spell, but perhaps increases the skill ceiling.
This is definitely one of the better suggestions I've seen. But assuming both players make it to late-game in decent shape I think think it would make for some pretty cool wars resembling feedback/snipe.
The biggest problem I foresee is getting to this situation I still see a problem in economy meshing into all this, just because it's incredibly difficult to get enough ghosts on top of tanks and medivacs (both lynch-pins that a terran army can't do without against a 3 base zerg). Cutting upgrades is maybe an option. But i've watched a tonne of games where terrans are gearing up for late-game, then the zerg is able to change gears and build an army and attack with overwhelming numbers.
This makes me more frustrated with the larva inject mechanic..but as far as this targetable fungal idea goes I'm on board.
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Terran is at such a massive disadvantage v Z in every aspect of the game now. Early game they can't even TOUCH zerg because of queen range. Lategame is just a joke. Terrans have to macro 3 production facilities, split marines PERFECTLY, siege and forcefire tanks, targetfire with vikings, AND now Zergs want Terrans to magically be able to use ravens as well? While the zerg just slowly moves and fungals+infested terran everything and then INSTANTLY remaxes IF they manage to lose with their miracle army.
Revert the queen patch. Leave the overlord speed. Make infestor cost 50 more gas, make fungal slow, and make infested terran cost supply or 25 more energy. Buff the crap outta hydras by giving them lair tech speed upgrade. Boom, solved blizzard. Wake up and smell the roses.
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On December 02 2012 02:26 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 02:20 raga4ka wrote:
I for one think that no HSM upgrade is a huge buff . Late game it will be really effective against the zerg air army and massing Ravens could actually be worth it . I hope Blizzard sticks with it and i don't care if zergs whine about it since they have the infestor . It is a buff but I don't think it is a huge one. It makes the raven slightly more viable in the mid game and maybe you will see more pros try to fit it into their composition. But in terms of massing ravens in the late game, not having to research it is really negligible.
Except you could always research HSM before you'd have the energy for it. If you started the upgrade and raven right when you finished the starport/techlab, you'd have to wait 133s before you had enough energy for a HSM, 23s after HSM would be researched. If you decided instead to wait for the Corvid Reactor, you'd have to start building a raven 50s after you started the upgrade for it to line up, making you wait a full 139s with this patch.
The ONLY time it actually pulls HSM out faster for you is if you went Corvid Reactor first, then researched HSM, making you wait 220s total. Really, the only buff that comes for Terran in this proposed patch is that you save 150/150 if you wanted to use ravens.
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4713 Posts
On December 02 2012 02:20 raga4ka wrote:
I for one think that no HSM upgrade is a huge buff . Late game it will be really effective against the zerg air army and massing Ravens could actually be worth it . I hope Blizzard sticks with it and i don't care if zergs whine about it since they have the infestor .
I for one am tired of seeing the same ignorance being spewed out again and again and having to educate people about it.
The problem with Raven was never the inaccessibility of HSM due to the upgrade, the problem was the build up to it. It literally takes 150 in game seconds for a raven without the energy upgrade to have enough energy to use HSM, and even with the upgrade it takes a whooping 100 seconds.
There is no other caster unit with such a build up time on it. Almost all other casters are immediately useful in some way upon being made. HT can feedback and be made into archons, IT come with the ability to fungal and the energy to do so, or drop down 3 ITs, sentry can FF right off the bat. Raven on the other hand is useless for at least 50 seconds until you have enough energy for a PDD.
This change is beyond useless, you still have to research the energy upgrade first, queue up Ravens to finish slightly after the energy upgrade finishes, then you can research missile upgrade while you wait for your ravens to not be useless.
The terran meanwhile is very, very vulnerable during the transition period, because he has invested resources and supply into units that won't provide any immediate usefulness what so ever. Not only that but, after HSM is used it takes a massive 250 in game seconds to get enough energy for another HSM, basically making the unit useless again, because you can't even cast a PDD afterwards, and Auto-turret is useless and can't be cast if there are units in the area to block it. This, again, leaves you very, very vulnerable in that time to further attacks and re-maxes from zerg, in fact it might even be better to sack the ravens and just make more then have to wait an eternity for them to get energy.
A valid buff would actually be to make Corvid Reactor give 50 extra starting energy rather then 25, or reduce energy cost of HSM to 100 while giving it a 10-15 second CD, something to make it more immediately useful so the terran doesn't roll over and die because a zerg hit a timing before Terran was ready.
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Eggs are retarded. When protoss units are warping in they can get one shotted by a few units because theyir HP powers up, it should be the same with infested terrans (rather than spawning with max hp). It's an EGG ffs, it shouldnt take one shot from a TANK let alone 2.
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Why Antiga? Why not a decent map where you can take a 4th? Why a statistically non-zerg favored map? What the hell does Blizzard look at for balance data?
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On December 02 2012 02:19 GattAttack wrote:
They keep alluding to the fact that they see balanced statistics, and while sure that might be great, they're ignoring the fact that the game has become less enjoyable over the last few months with the new metagame.
I agree with this. This game is in a desperate need for a change in the metagame and yet still they're just focusing on their statistics and argue that they're not seeing a problem because of how balanced the game is now. With that mentality, it's obvious that they don't even believe that the changes they're testing are necessary and this really shows. Basically everything that seems to be too much of a change to them gets reverted. Obviously the game simply isn't fun anymore to a lot of people, and that's a much bigger issue which they are outright ignoring.
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Sigh, I just genuinely lost faith in Blizzard. I swear I could do a better job at balance than them... Wish they had some common sense...
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Man I have to stop reading these forums. It's like I can't tear my eyes away from all the apocalypse and blizzard hate posts.
Calm down, drink some hot chocolate, and give the balance team some time to make sure they get things right. I would much rather they take small, careful steps to continually balance a game in which at the professional level all races are doing quite well right now than make ridiculous, drastic changes which redefine the entire game's balance and jeopardize the stability of every progamer playing this game right now.
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i just wonder how the zvt matchup would look right now if the queens range was back to 3.
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On December 02 2012 02:53 ChaiNs wrote:
Man I have to stop reading these forums. It's like I can't tear my eyes away from all the apocalypse and blizzard hate posts.
Calm down, drink some hot chocolate, and give the balance team some time to make sure they get things right. I would much rather they take small, careful steps to continually balance a game in which at the professional level all races are doing quite well right now than make ridiculous, drastic changes which redefine the entire game's balance and jeopardize the stability of every progamer playing this game right now.
It's been 8 months.
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On December 02 2012 02:47 Aulisemia wrote:
Why Antiga? Why not a decent map where you can take a 4th? Why a statistically non-zerg favored map? What the hell does Blizzard look at for balance data?
I think they use Antiga because it's the most balanced map out there statisticly.
It's the only map where ZvT and ZvP are closer to 50/50 than 60/40
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Aleksey Krupnyk @WhiteRaSC On IPL5 we can see the real balance in the game 
This belongs here I guess... As the replay of HerO vs Violet g3... Was just disgusting...
Whining about balance always occurred, I know, but at this stage of the game when it's so obvious, when even pros raise their concerns in public, I really can't understand how blind those people in Blizzard are...
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On December 02 2012 02:43 Destructicon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 02:20 raga4ka wrote:
I for one think that no HSM upgrade is a huge buff . Late game it will be really effective against the zerg air army and massing Ravens could actually be worth it . I hope Blizzard sticks with it and i don't care if zergs whine about it since they have the infestor . I for one am tired of seeing the same ignorance being spewed out again and again and having to educate people about it. The problem with Raven was never the inaccessibility of HSM due to the upgrade, the problem was the build up to it. It literally takes 150 in game seconds for a raven without the energy upgrade to have enough energy to use HSM, and even with the upgrade it takes a whooping 100 seconds. There is no other caster unit with such a build up time on it. Almost all other casters are immediately useful in some way upon being made. HT can feedback and be made into archons, IT come with the ability to fungal and the energy to do so, or drop down 3 ITs, sentry can FF right off the bat. Raven on the other hand is useless for at least 50 seconds until you have enough energy for a PDD. This change is beyond useless, you still have to research the energy upgrade first, queue up Ravens to finish slightly after the energy upgrade finishes, then you can research missile upgrade while you wait for your ravens to not be useless. The terran meanwhile is very, very vulnerable during the transition period, because he has invested resources and supply into units that won't provide any immediate usefulness what so ever. Not only that but, after HSM is used it takes a massive 250 in game seconds to get enough energy for another HSM, basically making the unit useless again, because you can't even cast a PDD afterwards, and Auto-turret is useless and can't be cast if there are units in the area to block it. This, again, leaves you very, very vulnerable in that time to further attacks and re-maxes from zerg, in fact it might even be better to sack the ravens and just make more then have to wait an eternity for them to get energy. A valid buff would actually be to make Corvid Reactor give 50 extra starting energy rather then 25, or reduce energy cost of HSM to 100 while giving it a 10-15 second CD, something to make it more immediately useful so the terran doesn't roll over and die because a zerg hit a timing before Terran was ready.
they detect right off the bat. no more scans needed to clear creep....just saying they arent completely worthless first 50 seconds
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Can't they just remove the root effect on air units for a slow? It would nerf the units slightly allowing for more exciting plays aka: drops, mutas, phoenix plays. Those egg nerf and random psionic units unaffected seems so random. At least fix the fact that infestor kill any air-based play from other races, protoss especially.
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EPT
