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On November 20 2012 22:18 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 22:11 the.toninator wrote:
Are you kidding? Without neural mass thors will just roll every tvz, even against broods. Also upgraded medivacs would be sooo OP it wouldn't even be funny. I don't know what world you're living in but mass thors get fucking demolished by brood lords a large majority of the time.
Really? Picture thor/viking against broodlord corruptor, and whenever your corruptors attack a viking all the thors deal splash to them, and now picture the army capable of that showing up at your doorstep at 15 minutes when you have a max of 5 broods, if any. Thors are really really good units.
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Nice interview, though he dodged the gist of so many questions. Still, Blizzard thinking of fixing fungal and making terran better is good news.
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On November 20 2012 22:24 the.toninator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 22:18 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 20 2012 22:11 the.toninator wrote:
Are you kidding? Without neural mass thors will just roll every tvz, even against broods. Also upgraded medivacs would be sooo OP it wouldn't even be funny. I don't know what world you're living in but mass thors get fucking demolished by brood lords a large majority of the time. Really? Picture thor/viking against broodlord corruptor, and whenever your corruptors attack a viking all the thors deal splash to them, and now picture the army capable of that showing up at your doorstep at 15 minutes when you have a max of 5 broods, if any. Thors are really really good units.
and now picture Thor/vikings against Brood Corruptor infestors spamming infestend terrans and fungal clumped vikings
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On November 20 2012 22:22 Zelniq wrote:
neural is a really funky and extremely tough to balance spell, I'm glad they may get rid of it.
I was thinking maybe replacing it with some kind of pure support ability like casting something that gives a temporary speed boost to a group of your units. I'm thinking overlords/ultras/hydras/swarm hosts mainly here (overlords so they can actually possibly reach a retreating army to bomb them), just to name a few of the many possible uses, although sped-up banelings may be a little too strong, perhaps it would give banelings that are off of creep the same speed as if they were on creep, and unchange the speed if they are already on creep. I like how many potential tactical maneuvers could be discovered for it.. I bet people could get really creative with it.
I agree, its kinda annoying because Infestor completely overtook baneling role, pre-infestor buff infestors were defensive/supportive units, they were kinda useless because their cost was too high and they only barely scratched protoss unit shields, but their role was more or less right. Your fungals could keep opponents unit and slow his push enabling your demage dealers do their job.
Now defiler was interesting unit, you could not mass it, because of various reasons (gas and APM expensive) and it could not win games by itself (plague was not killing, swarm was a buff). And for constant usage you had to spent apm to keep it churning spells (consume) unlike simply keeping it alive in a clump behind your army. A good example of good spelluser for Zerg 
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reworking 250mm means they will not get rid of the clunky, unmicroable Thor?
I am really looking forward on how they are going to make mech work TvP
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Fungal not affecting psionic wont help terran much at all. But i guess im happy they are considering changing stuff atleast.
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On November 20 2012 22:11 the.toninator wrote:
Are you kidding? Without neural mass thors will just roll every tvz, even against broods. Also upgraded medivacs would be sooo OP it wouldn't even be funny.
Ultras, Look at what Fruitdealer did.
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On November 20 2012 20:21 Rannasha wrote:
What's missing in the summary is that Dustin Browder said the word "right" 121 times (give or take a few due to miscounting) during the 32 minute interview. That's once every 16 seconds, including the time that monk was doing the talking.
That's crazy, right?
No, what is crazy that you actually counted that. You should find yourself a real hobby, yes?
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On November 20 2012 22:24 the.toninator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 22:18 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 20 2012 22:11 the.toninator wrote:
Are you kidding? Without neural mass thors will just roll every tvz, even against broods. Also upgraded medivacs would be sooo OP it wouldn't even be funny. I don't know what world you're living in but mass thors get fucking demolished by brood lords a large majority of the time. Really? Picture thor/viking against broodlord corruptor, and whenever your corruptors attack a viking all the thors deal splash to them, and now picture the army capable of that showing up at your doorstep at 15 minutes when you have a max of 5 broods, if any. Thors are really really good units.
Thors are not as good as you think they are. They are INCREDIBLY vulnerable to BLs and the Z has to make a considerable effort to clump all of their corruptors into a ball for Thors to do very significant damage to the point that you're talking about. Even with vikings. You need WAY more vikings, and sometimes you'll need ravens too. And this idea about a Thor army just all of a sudden showing up and killing off Z at 15 minutes for the most part just does not happen. I would be confident pro T players will back me up on this point. Off the bat, your point was already null and void because nobody uses neural against Thors, ITs are the best tool vs a huge Thor army in terms of infestor abilities.
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Blegh, every time i see Dustin Browder give an interview like this I feel he is more and more off.
Like what good at all is making fungal not hit psionic, I get he wants to make ht and ghost 'work' as a counter to infestors but that is way too simplistic. Psionic units being rooted now has virtually nothing to do with the problem of infestors, the combination of bl/infestor would remain too strong anyway as ghosts still don't do crap agianst that. It only buffs archons basically which is a pretty much moot point.
Few of the real core issues of the game were touched upon in this interview though. The discussion of PvZ and how it influences map design was good but DB's answers were way too vague and useless anyway, can't he just say something specific for a change.
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After year of GomTvT still talking about poor terrans. For me its totally ok to not have millions of terrans in tournaments all over the world. To be honest I turn off every stream if I see TvT....just had that, for a lot of SC2 time and I am fed up with it.
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On November 20 2012 22:36 Cinquedea wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 22:11 the.toninator wrote:
Are you kidding? Without neural mass thors will just roll every tvz, even against broods. Also upgraded medivacs would be sooo OP it wouldn't even be funny. Ultras, Look at what Fruitdealer did.
With the bugged Ultralisks you mean?
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Not done listening to it yet, but wanted to throw out - great questions by monk!
-Cross
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On November 20 2012 22:36 Cinquedea wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 22:11 the.toninator wrote:
Are you kidding? Without neural mass thors will just roll every tvz, even against broods. Also upgraded medivacs would be sooo OP it wouldn't even be funny. Ultras, Look at what Fruitdealer did.
I DO use ultras and neural, because meching players will always hit before I can get enough broods to fight thors. So I need a good surround and good fungals and infested terrans and spines and sometimes I still just die to that push.
Thors are not as good as you think they are. They are INCREDIBLY vulnerable to BLs and the Z has to make a considerable effort to clump all of their corruptors into a ball for Thors to do very significant damage to the point that you're talking about. Even with vikings. You need WAY more vikings, and sometimes you'll need ravens too. And this idea about a Thor army just all of a sudden showing up and killing off Z at 15 minutes for the most part just does not happen. I would be confident pro T players will back me up on this point. Off the bat, your point was already null and void because nobody uses neural against Thors, ITs are the best tool vs a huge Thor army in terms of infestor abilities.
My point isn't void, because I use neural and I'm talking about my own experience. And even like 6-8 thors showing up at the beginning of hive tech with good upgrades kills a LOT, assuming you've taken any damage from hellions or drops(and you have, if the terran is any good) And infested terrans are only overwhelming in huge numbers, otherwise the hellions can just kill them immediately. This isn't just theorycraft, so please don't automatically dismiss my opinion.
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I initially disagreed with their approach concerning mothership but if they intend to actually make it a joke unit, I suppose no harm done. Kind of like the scout in Brood War
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On November 20 2012 22:35 SamsLiST wrote:
reworking 250mm means they will not get rid of the clunky, unmicroable Thor?
I am really looking forward on how they are going to make mech work TvP
It's simple.
Hardened armor. So we would have inmortal vs thors pillow fights.
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On November 20 2012 22:37 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 20:21 Rannasha wrote:
What's missing in the summary is that Dustin Browder said the word "right" 121 times (give or take a few due to miscounting) during the 32 minute interview. That's once every 16 seconds, including the time that monk was doing the talking.
That's crazy, right? No, what is crazy that you actually counted that. You should find yourself a real hobby, yes?
I'm a mathematician, so counting stuff is what I do ^^ (aside from being mildly crazy).
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On November 20 2012 22:45 the.toninator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 22:36 Cinquedea wrote:On November 20 2012 22:11 the.toninator wrote:
Are you kidding? Without neural mass thors will just roll every tvz, even against broods. Also upgraded medivacs would be sooo OP it wouldn't even be funny. Ultras, Look at what Fruitdealer did. I DO use ultras and neural, because meching players will always hit before I can get enough broods to fight thors. So I need a good surround and good fungals and infested terrans and spines and sometimes I still just die to that push. Show nested quote +Thors are not as good as you think they are. They are INCREDIBLY vulnerable to BLs and the Z has to make a considerable effort to clump all of their corruptors into a ball for Thors to do very significant damage to the point that you're talking about. Even with vikings. You need WAY more vikings, and sometimes you'll need ravens too. And this idea about a Thor army just all of a sudden showing up and killing off Z at 15 minutes for the most part just does not happen. I would be confident pro T players will back me up on this point. Off the bat, your point was already null and void because nobody uses neural against Thors, ITs are the best tool vs a huge Thor army in terms of infestor abilities. My point isn't void, because I use neural and I'm talking about my own experience. And even like 6-8 thors showing up at the beginning of hive tech with good upgrades kills a LOT, assuming you've taken any damage from hellions or drops(and you have, if the terran is any good) And infested terrans are only overwhelming in huge numbers, otherwise the hellions can just kill them immediately. This isn't just theorycraft, so please don't automatically dismiss my opinion.
No offense meant, but you don't seem like you know how to play as well as you could if you're building ultras against thors, and using neural when you could be using ITs + a fungal or two to lock hellions in place. And like I said before, even a small army of Thors coming at you at a hive timing can get absolutely crushed by mass roaches, or, what's more common, the roaches counter attack into your base and can get right on top of your production. Then you trade your small-ish Thor army for a base or two of Z's, and the Z kills all or most of your reinforcements and production. Or, you go ALL the way back to your base with your slow ass mech army, and the supply used in roaches is then used to remax on BL/Corruptor while the mech army tries to get back across the map.
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Should have asked him about Hydralisks.
No one cares about Hydralisks.
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Why make the mothership core then say they're going to make it so pros don't use the mothership in competitive play. Doesn't make sense...
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EPT
